Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Putin: Talks With Biden Were Quite Constructive; Putin Again Refuses To Name Navalny, Says He Wanted To Be Arrested. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 16, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Do you think that at this present stage, we are -- we can talk about a new stage of bilateral relations?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): There is no happiness in life, there's only a mirage image on the horizon, so, you know, cherish that. Sadly, sort of, you know, family trust. But I think there is a spark of hope in his eyes. Give the microphone over there, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (INAUDIBLE) First Channel. Coronavirus is one of the most important topics at the moment. Did you actually talk about that at these negotiations? And if so, did you talk about any kind of joint work with the Americans? Did you talk about reciprocal use of vaccines and so on and so forth?

PUTIN (through translator): We did mention it as you know, the former administration, well, the Russians, the Russian side center, technical stuff and offered assistance. And even though America is a very advanced country, and so they needed help at a moment, and we provided it. And we hope to work in that kind of vein in the future, but we didn't have any real detailed discussions about it today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Since that it's a time relationship really deteriorated between our countries. Do you think that, you know, relations will -- can be raised from that low level?

PUTIN (through translator): Difficult to say. I think that everything to do with the deterioration of our mutual relationship was initiated not by us but by the USA. I mean I don't know what they're thinking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Komsomolskaya Pravda. I don't know whether you know, but we won over the fence, one-zero. And I congratulate you says Pravda. Do you think, but what kind of score would you give to the Russia-U.S. negotiations with Biden? Did you feel a kind of pressure coming from the Americans because all the time there is talk about resisting Russia, resisting Putin, and so on and so forth. And you know, well, I think that's enough. Thank you. Anyway, thank you. PUTIN (through translator): Well, we didn't experience any kind of pressure. As I said, the dialogue was very open, frank, and without no diplomatic divergences from the subject on the table. There was no pressure. It will be pointless anyway, because we don't, you know, meet for that purpose. What was the rest of your question?

Well, I think before this meeting, President Biden said that, you know, we ought to have a sporting event, and I fully agree with him. The meeting, you know, was actually very efficient. It was substantive. It was specific. And it was aimed at achieving results. And one of them was pushing back the frontiers of trust about which your colleagues talked. BBC News, please.

STEVEN ROSENBERG, BBC NEWS (through translator): Steven Rosenberg, BBC News. Joe Biden is surging stable, predictable relations, but the West thinks that unpredictability is a hallmark of Russian politics. How do you think you can improve relations with the West?

PUTIN (through translator): Well, I think you've really got to a high level art there, I envy you. The first part of your question. The West considers and are you going to reject that, you say? Allow me first of all to answer the first part of your question. You said that in Russia, Russian foreign policy is unpredictable. Allow me to respond first of all, with a couple of facts. What about the withdrawal of the U.S. from the ABM treaty? Absolutely unpredictable that was.

[12:35:31]

And then the withdrawal from the Intermediate and Short Range Missile Treaty, what about the withdrawal from the Open Skies Agreements or treaty, was that predictable? Fortunately, President Biden took the right decision about prolonging the start three talks. But look at the situation to do with Ukraine and Crimea. What is stable in supporting a coup d'etat in Ukraine when Yanukovych agreed to all the demands of the opposition and said that there should be elections?

No. In fact, what they did was to organize a bloodthirsty coup d'etat. And you think that we are unpredictable? I don't think so. In my view, we are behaving in absolutely appropriate way to threats on us. And I think that if you really want stability, you have to talk about rules of conduct, cyber security decisions as to regional conflicts, and so on. I think that on all those issues, you can actually achieve agreement. And I think that all that was on the agenda of President Biden.

I think we have to start singing songs about the blue mists and so on, if you're talking about man or deceit. And then that is really the last question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (INAUDIBLE). After your meeting with Trump, American sanctions were enacted very quickly. Did you today with Joe Biden, get any guarantees that there won't be any further sanctions against Russia? And if there are some sort of sparks of trust, do you think that we are justified in trusting more? And we might be said that you have more trust in the American administration now than in Trump's? On the question of consultations with Ukraine, I didn't quite understand what you said. What were the red lines? Did you actually mark those out very clearly, as far as the red lines are concerned?

PUTIN (through translator): I've already answered that many times. The understanding is on the table. We know exactly what opposition say. I think that frightening each other or scaring each other is not on the agenda. As far as sanctions are concerned and restrictions in the economy, I've already talked about it.

We know what the domestic U.S. climate is like. We know about it. But, you know, it's a complicated situation because there are adversaries of Russia, supporters of Russia at the same time. And it's very difficult to say exactly which side prevails. But if after our meeting, we see steps as happened in 2017, if they don't happen, it means missed opportunities. And one last question to journalist from Canada.

TAMARA ALTERESCO, RADIO-CANADA: Tamara Alteresco from Radio-Canada. You said to a couple of my colleagues you wanted unbiased. Do you -- can you give a translation.

[12:40:12]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Start from the beginning.

ALTERESCO: Do you hear me now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

PUTIN (through translator): I don't want to switch Canada. You're off for some reason. No translation, I'm afraid.

ALTERESCO: I will try and repeat.

PUTIN (through translator): Maybe on different channel, try. No. I can't hear anything. Give me a minute. I apologize.

ALTERESCO: Thank you.

PUTIN (through translator): Could you repeat your question, please?

ALTERESCO: I'm Tamara Alteresco from Radio-Canada in Moscow. You said to a couple of my colleagues, you wanted unbiased, fair questions and coverage? I have a fair question for you. It actually comes from my nine-year-old daughter, who asked me before I left to come here. What is the big deal with the Summit? And it's quite a complicated answer for a nine-year-old. So I'd like you to explain to us in your own words, Mr. President, why is this relationship so complicated? And also she'd like to know, and I'd like to know, why are young people not allowed to protest in Russia?

PUTIN (through translator): Yes, it's great that your nine-year-old daughter is interested in these kinds of issues. So the answer is very simple. You have to look around yourself. And you have to say how wonderful the world is. Adults, leaders of both countries of the two major nuclear powers meet so as to make this world safe, reliable, and a prosperous house, home for all the inhabitants of this planet.

They will be discussing questions about terrible weapons, which restrict activities about not using them, about the environment, about rivers and seas being clean, so they shouldn't be floods or droughts. So there should be enough food for everybody on the planet wherever they are. And they will be talking about health issues. And when that for when those children grow up, they will be able to confidently look into the future and I should very much like to hope that today's meeting, in fact, shed light on those kinds of considerations.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your attention.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: So there you have it a nearly one hour Q&A session, a news conference, nearly one hour session that President Putin just had with reporters, answering questions on a whole bunch of issues, lots of news there. He didn't budge, though, on anything as far as Russia is concerned. He defended every controversial issue that was coming up during the course of this Summit.

He spoke nicely about President Biden at one point saying it was very efficient, a substantive dialogue. He said President Biden was very balanced, professional, and experienced man. He was very upbeat about that. He also said that, yes, the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow would return, the Russian Ambassador to Washington would return. They would pick up their respective functions.

As far as some of the substantive controversial issues, the arrest of Alexey Navalny, for example, he wouldn't mention his name, specifically the opposition leader in Russia. But he repeatedly said he broke the law. And at one point he was talking, he was asked about human rights issues in Russia. And he said, well, look what's going on in the United States right now. Look at how many Americans are being killed on the streets. Look what were the U.S. was doing in Iraq with helicopters attacking civilians. He went on repeatedly on that.

Jim Sciutto, he didn't exactly break a lot of new ground. But he was very, very defensive in arguing why he's right and apparently his critics are all wrong.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, he was enjoying himself there by the end. And interesting, we said earlier in the day how he did not succeed in keeping Biden waiting at the start of the Summit. The timing as such that Biden waited for him to arrive first but here in effect, he's keeping Biden waiting because his press conference is to follow.

But on the issues, let's talk as you did about those achievable goals we were speaking about in advance of this Summit. One, the return of ambassadors, that's happening. Now it's that we'll wait I suppose for confirmation from Biden, they announced that. On the question of prisoners, the possibility of a prisoner exchange, he didn't say it's done and dusted. But he did say the Department of State, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will be working on it. That sounds like he's saying that is an achievable goal.

[12:45:23]

BLITZER: He said, we might be able to find some compromise.

SCIUTTO: Exactly. Still remains to be seen if they get there. But there are at least working on it. On cyber, he did announce that they're going to have expert consultations. But he launched as you heard many times, really into a denial of the facts on cyber claiming that, in fact, you know, the U.S. and South America are where most of these hacks come from. He says that he went when the U.S. listed Russian cyberattacks to Russia. Russia came back with 45 attacks, didn't specify what they were, that actually came from the U.S.

So, so ever the disinformation artists, Putin, you know, giving his skewed and sometimes counterfactual description of those issues, which does not bode well for finding a good agreement on those issues. Finally, I would just say, he's a consummate troll on some of these issues. And as you noted, anytime he was challenged say on human rights, throwing it back to the States, there's this old Soviet tool of whataboutism, what about the problems in your country, what about the problems of racial protests, et cetera, rather than even mentioning Alexey Navalny's name for instance.

BLITZER: I looked at that, and he said, look at how many Americans who were simply protesting --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BLITZER: -- January 6th, were arrested and some of them are going to be convicted and spent 20 or 30 years in jail.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BLITZER: So he really went after on that run. Clarissa, you were watching and listening very carefully as well.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I was. That something interesting that he said that he -- I don't believe he said before on the subject of Alexey Navalny without obviously ever mentioning his name. He went into a little more detail about his arrests, accusing Navalny of deliberately breaking the law, not just inadvertently breaking the law by being outside of the country because he was poisoned with Novichok, but deliberately breaking the law when he came back to Russia, which is very interesting, because I spoke to Alexey Navalny right before he came back to Russia. And he certainly did not believe he was breaking the law. And he was actually optimistic, rightly or wrongly, that he might be able to avoid that.

But listen, clearly, not giving an inch on any of the sticky thorny issues. Ukraine came up a lot. He said, listen, there's only one thing to talk about here, Minsk agreement, Minsk agreement, Minsk agreement. Everybody who watches that conflict closely knows Minsk agreement is complicated. It entails semi autonomy and holding elections. And he wouldn't be drawn on any of the specifics there.

BLITZER: He didn't budge at all.

WARD: He didn't budge an inch on any of those issues. But nor frankly, did any of us really expected him to. I was surprised by the sort of upbeat tone in general, when he first came in and had no rehearse statement. He just said, OK, I'll answer your questions. And then to hear him say it was constructive. He said, Biden and I spoke the same language. I thought that was interesting.

He said, you know, that it was productive, and that he was hopeful that maybe this could be the beginning of more steps in the right direction in terms of getting the relationship back on track. I think a lot of us had been a little concerned when the meetings ended early. And obviously, we still very much need to hear the Biden -- President Biden's interpretation of the events. But I will say that I thought the tone was more positive than I had expected, although clearly standing fast on the issues that he views as --

BLITZER: Yes. He said the dialog was open and Frank. He said, yes, we have work to do. We're going to be achieving specific results.

SCIUTTO: He said that we both sides maintain a determination to understand each other as well. There was a line there. And again, this is Putin rights. So he will give you a jab, even when he's describing you positively. He described how Biden and those of us who have met or spoken to Biden can find this credible was telling a story about what his mother used to say to him. And Putin said, he said, well, I didn't really see how it was relevant. But, you know, it helped me know the man a little bit better, he said. And then later he said, there is no happiness in life, you know, ever the KGB agent.

But he said, in Biden, he saw hope in his eye, which is notable given, you know, Biden's past comments about him not having a soul. So perhaps, the building blocks of a workable rapport between these two leaders, and that's important.

BLITZER: Yes, he said it was substantive and important. Let's discuss right now with Fiona Hill, a top Russia adviser to the former President Donald Trump. She's a senior fellow in the Foreign Policy Program over at the Brookings Institute. She knows this subject very, very well. Ambassador Fiona Hill, give us your thoughts. What did you think?

FIONA HILL, FORMER TOP RUSSIA ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I have to agree with a lot of the assessment that you've got from Jim and Clarissa there as well. And I was listening along to the press conference. I missed the initial bet that was just described about him coming in and that's have no, you know, fixed agenda. Let's answer your questions. That's classic Putin.

[12:50:09]

He know he likes to take command of these kinds of events. He likes to spar with journalists and people asking him questions. I did notice by listening very carefully to the Russian, that his tone was very dispassionate and matter of fact, and, you know, slightly cynical. As Jim said, you know, this whataboutism is kind of a classic Putin play as well, just turning every question back either to the questioner or also to things are happening in the United States or whichever country that he's meeting with.

There was also, you know, a classic way in which he's very offhand with the journalists. I mean, you may not have noticed, but I noticed that when he was saying, or hand over the mic to someone, when it would be a woman who was asking, he would use the Russian word, (INAUDIBLE), which is girl instead of lady. The translator translated as the lady over there, but that when Russian would have been dumber or you know, (INAUDIBLE), something like this.

So, he was very much a kind of a, you know, been there, done that, you know, this has nothing to really look out here. Yes, yes. OK, I'm going to take your questions. But it is again, notable that he was trying to be constructive, that he was saying, you know, generally, you know, positive or least neutral things about Biden, there was no kind of chest thumping about the meeting with the President himself. And, you know, there's references to Biden bringing up his mother, we might recall back when Putin first met with George W. Bush in Slovenia in the famous moment where George W. Bush looked into Putin's soul.

Putin also made a point back there about talking about his mother, with George W. Bush. He talked about his mother giving them across, him being baptized, there being a fire in his stature, in his country home, and the only thing that's surviving the fire being the cross that his mother gave him, he talked about his grandmother. He frequently talks about his father. Putin does this all the time.

So you know, he himself knows how to create a kind of a connection with people. And you know, I think the out of this, you know, what we can at least expect is some more professional meetings. So that was also very interesting. I got hold of a who's who was in the meeting on our side, you know, a very classical professional set of people, many who were Russian speakers, Victoria Nuland, Derek Green, Stow Grass (ph), also from the National Security Council who speak Russian.

And on the Russian side, very interesting inclusion of General Gerasimov, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs equivalent, he's been speaking behind the scenes with General Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the United States frequently. There was also Peskov the press conference -- the press secretary. He was more than that. I mean, he's really a diplomat. There was also Dmitry Kozak, who is a chief heir to the president who deals with Ukraine. And there was also Ambassador Lavrentiy (ph) who deals with Syria.

So the Russians are also signaled that they mean business. And they've got a pretty standard agenda of issues that they want to pick up, if not in that meeting, moving forward.

BLITZER: Was there anything that surprised you coming from Putin today, Ambassador Hill?

HILL: Well, I think, you know, I wouldn't say actually anything surprising, apart from the fact that he clearly wanted to keep the tone, you know, generally cardio. So I think it was very important for Putin to have this Summit. It was important to perhaps for him not to go off the rails also, for the purposes of taking this forward. It is an episodic event. It's not the be all and the end all there was no expectation I think was going to be settled.

But it's clear that he's open to having a whole set of other meetings afterwards. The prisoner exchange, well that kind of came up in the discussions. I'd be mindful about that. And you know, watching very carefully, because there's certainly an imbalance between who, you know, the United States has, in a U.S. prisons from the Russian side, people who have committed pretty serious crimes.

And on the Russian side, you know, captured Paul Whelan and Trevor Reed, two former Marines, you know, are very trivial issues on Trevor Reed's past, and a lot of fabrication on the past of Paul Whelan. There was definitely a symmetry of their asks when I was involved in all of this. And the issue that, you know, Jim is mentioning about cyber, that's pretty critical. And I think we've got a long way to go before we can find some way of talking about this in a holistic sense, because there's so many different dimensions of that.

There's the cyberattacks that we've seen the state perpetrating, including on the hacking into the elections. Of course, Putin has denied that the state was involved, but certainly state proxies. There's the ransomware criminal groups, those attacks on the critical infrastructure, there's concerns about command and control. This is a really big issue. And there was no way that that was going to be resolved in this meeting.

But you know, there are suggestions that we'd be able to take this forward. I think the bigger thing will be to see after this, that there's an announcement of different sets of professional meetings at different levels of the U.S. and Russian government because those meetings themselves can be an anchor to stabilize an otherwise confrontational relationship. The big thing, of course, is that Putin is not going to let up. He's not going to let up on the dirty tricks. He's certainly not going to let up on the whataboutism.

[12:55:21]

There's not going to be any dim newish and I don't think of tensions either immediately, or for some foreseeable period. But this is at least a start to try to get some kind of anchor in the relationship to set the tone on the stage for other meetings. And as Jim and Clarissa, you know, they're saying to get the ambassadors back into their places as well.

BLITZER: And I thought it was interesting, although not a surprise to those of us who have interviewed Russians, other U.S. adversaries over the years, that whenever you raise a sensitive issue, let's say inside Russia, and Russia is doing something bad, they immediately throw back whatever they can about what's going on in the United States. And they take a look at all the awful things happening in the U.S. And basically say you have no right to criticize anything in Russia, because look what's happening in your own backyard. I'm sure you've heard that in your dealings with the Russians over the years, many times, right? HILL: Yes, over and over again. And look, I mean, I think that is one of our greatest weaknesses going in is the political polarization and the parties on fighting. Now, you know, Putin himself has pretty much quashed his opposition. And I think it was very interesting about how he brushed off the question about what are you frightened about. It's about putting Alexey Navalny in jail and, you know, wrapping up the opposition. And, you know, making it impossible for anyone to protest.

You know, he obviously brushed all of that away. But, you know, he has his own sets of problems. But that is a real liability for us. The parties are nature of our politics right now, our infighting, and our inability to put forward collective action. So it's something we have to address. And I know that President Biden is very sensitive to this, as many of us are, as well. But, you know, for the next set of meetings, you know, we also have to be able to show that we can get our act together at home.

And I think that what Biden is doing on the home front is an important part of bolstering the position of being able to talk to the Russians down the line. And the other thing, also, of course, is that President Biden at home has to be accused of appeasing Putin by having this meeting. You know, back home in Russia, and also in this press conference, Putin can spin this anywhere that he likes. He doesn't have the same accountability to the press. He certainly doesn't have accountability back to the Russian parliament. He doesn't really have anybody questioning why on earth he's meeting with Biden or the American president.

We have, you know, a situation where there's so much scrutiny on diplomacy and on President Biden meeting, when of course, Biden has to also meet with Xi. There's possibilities of having to meet with Kim Jong-un down the line. The Iranians, you know, we're trying to figure out have to -- have diplomacy here. Diplomacy is a tool. That doesn't mean that there's any kind of appeasement. And I think if the messages are very clear, red lines are very clear, and further meetings, bring those messages forward.

This is what diplomacy is. It's having face to face, looking people in the eyes, and telling them what is acceptable and what is not. And trying to figure out how you're going to manage this relationship.

BLITZER: We will see how this unfolds. Fiona Hill, thank you so much for your expertise. Thanks so much for joining us. And to our viewers who were standing by. We have now heard from the Russian president, he answered reporters' questions for nearly an hour. We're waiting for President Biden now to go to the microphone and answer reporters' questions as well. We'll see what he has to say. Well, of course, have live coverage of that.

John King is with us, Dana Bash is with us. Let me get both of your thoughts on what we just heard. John, first of all, you heard him, Putin, make the case that what the U.S. is doing now as far as the January 6th insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. He's basically suggesting it was awful. All these people have been arrested. They might spend 20 or 30 years in jail. So don't complain about what's going on in Russia. What was your reaction when you heard that? JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The whataboutism, as you have discussed with Ambassador Hill and with Jim and Clarissa is something we've all heard before at press conferences with Mr. Putin and watching him on the world stage these past 20 plus years. What to me is most critical is what are we going to hear from President Biden in moments on the specifics that Mr. Putin refused to discuss or that he brushed off? What will the President say about how detailed he got into his conversations, his complaints about human rights, political rights, and specifically, Mr. Navalny and his organization in Russia?

Did Putin react to the president? What were the conversations about cyber, again, Putin pushing it aside, saying, you know, this is a problem worldwide, don't lecture us. Sure. I'll talk to you about this. But there's a bigger problem elsewhere. It's not us. Really interested to hear from the U.S. side. And I think how in detail President Biden gets will tell us a lot about his confidence level in the keep talking part.

[12:59:56]

One thing Putin did make clear, and again, what were your expectations coming into this? Putin is a bad actor, everybody knows that. The President has been clear all he wants here. He does not expect breakthroughs.