Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Court DOC Mentions 1/6 As Proof of Damage of False Info; New York Suspends Rudy Giuliani From Practicing Law For Election Lies; Deadly Building Collapse in Florida; Miami-Dade Mayor: "Every Minute" in Search Can Make Difference; Joe Manchin: Can't Hold Bipartisan Framework "Hostage". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 24, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm Dana bash in Washington, John King is off today. A horrifying scene out of Miami a building collapses, killing at least one person 50 plus people are unaccounted for more on that story in minutes.

But we're going to start with other breaking news. A New York court says Rudy Giuliani repeatedly lied and because of that he can no longer practice the law. I'm going to get straight to CNN's Paula Reid. So Paula, why did the court rule the way it did?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, this is a stunning development for a man who was once one of the nation's top law enforcement officials. Now in its opinion, this state appellate panel concluded that there was uncontroverted evidence that Giuliani communicated demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts to lawmakers and to the public at large.

In his capacity as a lawyer for former President Trump and the Trump campaign in connection with Trump's failed effort at re election in 2020. They concluded that what he did is a threat to the public interest, which is why he has now been suspended from the practice of law.

Again Dana, it is not easy to have your license suspended this way. This all came about after the bar received multiple complaints conducted investigation and came to this result. But we're actually expected to see Mr. Giuliani in just a few hours he is due to appear in federal court here in Washington D.C. to defend against a defamation suit brought by Dominion Voting Systems.

So we may have the chance to ask him to react to this incredible development. And he first joined the bar in 1969. He's had a lengthy legal career. He was in the Justice Department for a while, of course, he was famously the Mayor of New York. And then he has been representing Former President Trump in various legal for various legal issues.

So this is really a pretty stunning way to cap off what historically has been a pretty glittering career. But over the past several years, he has increasingly had more and more legal issues, in addition to the defamation suit, this suspension. He also has an ongoing federal investigation in New York.

BASH: Paula, thank you so much for that report. I want to bring in my panel that is here with me and Abby, I'm going to start with you and read something else from the document because this is about Rudy Giuliani, but it's also even more so about the big lie.

So this document says one only has to look at the ongoing present public discord over the 2020 election which erupted into violence insurrection and death on January 6th, 2021 at the U.S. Capitol, to understand the extent of the damage that can be done when the public is misled by false information about the elections. That is pretty damning and very accurate.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, 100 percent accurate. I mean, there are consequences to these lies. And for so many months, the president and his allies, among - chief among them, Giuliani have been lying with impunity, about all kinds of things and then doing so in legal proceedings.

You have to wonder, is there any sort of recourse for that? I mean, can someone say that their lawyer practice law in this country while also doing something that is provably false? I think this court ruling makes that clear that there are consequences for Giuliani and probably for others as well.

There's - there are defamation cases, there's real damage that was done, not just to lives, but also to livelihoods for the companies that were slandered frankly, by a web of conspiracies and lies that were made up out of whole cloth by the president and his allies.

MELANIE ZANONA, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: I think for Trump's allies, especially you have to wonder whether they're sitting there now thinking how far am I willing to go to push Trump's lies about the election, especially some of these guys, who were running in primary races trying to run for higher office?

Are you willing to lose your license? Are you willing to lose your Twitter account in the name of these lies with the president, the former president has spread? So you know, maybe they'll be thinking twice now seeing that there are repercussions.

PAUL KANE, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: And it's not just there are federal courts that are now starting to sentence some of those in the January 6th, riot, and Royce Lamberth, a judge appointed by Ronald Reagan, was a real pain in the butt to Bill Clinton's Administration.

Yesterday in sentencing one of those rioters singled out the congressional Republicans who are trying to rewrite the January 6th history. He said I don't know what planet they were on the Republicans who are trying to defend this. And he said that that attack was, "Intended to halt the very functioning of government". So the whole legal system is now starting to shift. KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what's so stunning about this is that when you cover Trump and as a lot of us have for several years, you realize that people around him think that they're untouchable. They start to think that more and more than more, they're in his inner circle.

And it is something that happens with people in the White House, people on Capitol Hill, his attorneys, they think that they can do and say whatever they want. And because they're in this orbit that he operates in, there are no consequences for what they say. And for what they do. This is showing that's not true.

[12:05:00]

COLLINS: But also just to step back there are so many crazy things that happened that I think it's easy to not be surprised by something like this happening. This is incredible. Rudy Giuliani has been a barred attorney for decades, he was the Mayor of New York through 9/11, who helped steer the city out of that.

To see the rise in that way and the fall in this way is amazing that the former president's former attorney no longer can represent his clients in a court of law now does not have a law license is incredible.

PHILLIP: Yes, it's incredible. But let's be honest, I mean, this is kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back. Rudy Giuliani has been doing unethical things on behalf of his client, Donald Trump for a long time so much so that the Trump was impeached twice over these kinds of shenanigans.

But I also want to just say, to your point, PK about Republicans on Capitol Hill, I think that there's a sentiment amongst some Republicans, people like Ted Cruz, and, you know, Rand Paul and others who kind of like flirt, you know, Congressman Stefanik, who flirt on this line and say, well, there were irregularities.

We don't think that that, you know, that election officials should have been able to change these rules. Those are all kind of euphemisms for the broader lie framework that all of this is sitting on top of. It's not OK to just say, oh, well, there were irregularities, and we have questions. The questions are all based on the lie that Rudy Giuliani just got disbarred for.

BASH: And the most important thing is, well, one of the most important things is the legal realm that we're talking about. But then it's the political realm. When you guys walk the halls of Congress every day, would you think that the members, who are propagating the big lie, are going to care that there is a real life consequence?

If you are someone like Rudy Giuliani, will that trickle down to people who rely on voters and not? You know the court of law?

KANE: Yes, I think they're probably going to look at this Dana and just say, well, that's because he was playing a lawyer. He was playing the role of lawyer. We're over here in politics, and we get to do lies and distortions for a living, and there's no legal bar that says you've crossed the line. You only have your voters who are responsive to.

So I mean, we'll see, look, the House Republican Conference continues to be very much in the former presidents' camp. They are - you know, the Senate Republican conference is very different. They are - they're 11 of them, I think are down at the White House right now meeting with President Biden, you know, they're talking about bipartisanship. The House Republicans they're still right there with the former president.

BASH: OK, everybody standby because we want to get down to Florida in Miami this hour, a human tragedy happening in real time. Surfside, Florida that is specifically where this happened. A condo building disintegrated. We saw grainy surveillance cameras capture the moment of collapse on video.

I warn our viewers, the footage is really disturbing. It is silent because it is surveillance footage. But it is kind of hard to believe that this is actually happening. And that it was an accident not something that we see when buildings are intentionally brought down it's just hard to wrap your mind around.

One area official now says 51 people are unaccounted for, though, we want to underscore that there is more unknown at this hour than known about the human toll and why this building folded on itself in the first place?

The collapse killed at least one and rescuers are racing to pull people from the wreckage. Already teams have pulled 35 people from under the concrete and we're hearing remarkable stories from the rubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS BALBOA, WITNESSED BUILDING COLLAPSE: I could hear - I could hear somebody yelling and screaming because you know a little boy couldn't have been more than in his preteens. So then I saw an arm sticking out of the wreckage. And he was screaming you know can you see me? He was just screaming don't leave me, don't leave me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Also accounts of near misses from inside the building. One resident says the collapse almost came for him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY COHEN, RESIDENT OF PARTIALLY COLLAPSED BUILDING: When we walked out of our apartment, and we were going to see how we were going to get out of the apartment? I walked down the hallway and it's a very long hallway probably 100 yards, 75 yards. And there was nothing there. It was just a pile of dust and rubble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I want to bring in Craig Fugate. He was the FEMA Director for eight years through Joplin and tornadoes across the country Hurricane Sandy and more before that, Craig; you were Emergency Management Director in Florida for eight years.

[12:10:00]

BASH: Thank you so much for coming on. The first question is, when you see this, particularly the graphic video that I just showed the surveillance video of the collapse? What does it tell you at first blush?

CRAIG FUGATE, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: That this is going to be a very complex rescue recovery operation. Fortunately, Miami-Dade County has won a FEMA's Urban Search and Rescue Teams. This is one of our premier rescue teams that are designed and built for these types of rescues.

And, of course, in this event, they are activated locally. So as tragic as this is, but you have some of the best trained teams in the world operating there on that site right now.

BASH: Well, that is good news. More than 80 fire and medical units are aiding the search. So describe to us as somebody who has led efforts like this and larger than this, what an organization like this entails?

FUGATE: This is going to be a long response recovery because the building is not stable. And a lot of people say why aren't they in there digging in there getting people out? You have to understand the building itself is no longer safe and more of the building can still collapse.

So part of what the responders are having to do is secure and stabilize the building from the inside, while they look for survivors are using dogs, drones and other technology. And then they have to have a plan of how to get to those folks to do that?

This is not going to be over an hour's this will take days. And it is an extremely dangerous operation. That's why these teams are so critical to be trained and equipped for just this type of rescue.

BASH: Miami-Dade County Commissioner said that 51 people still remain unaccounted for. Talk about the survival that is possible in the kind of rubble we're looking at in the pictures right now.

FUGATE: Well, I think we can give people false hope. First of all, we're the 51 people in the building that's still being searched, you know, people could be on vacation that could be you know, out of the area.

What we have seen in these types of collapses is if there are spaces in voids that are created as the structure comes down, they have found survivors. We saw this and the hurricanes in Florida; we saw this during the Haiti response. So those types of survivals, they're still possible.

BASH: When does it go from search and rescue to recovery? FUGATE: You know, I've always said we keep looking, and that there's a point where, once we've established there's no possible survivors will - they'll start bringing in more equipment, trying to remove the layers to get to the seas.

But it's not a bright line you paint because you just don't want to give up hope. But there will be a point where it will be necessary to bring in heavier equipment or start removing debris. And that's generally when the acknowledgement is there are not likely any more chances of survival.

So there's less risk if there's a disturbance in that pile that a survivor may be injured, and they'll don't move towards trying to locate and remove the people that we've lost.

BASH: So the Surfside Mayor said that he's worried and you mentioned this, of course about the safety concerns right now. He's worried about the other part of the building, the other tower collapsing. So what is the danger right now for those trying to go in and rescue anybody they can possibly find?

FUGATE: This is a very high risk rescue operation. These one of these teams are trained. They have structural engineers that are part of our team that are assessing the building, making determinations, what are they--?

What needs to be done to make the rest of the building safe? And yes, we've seen that we've had to, in some cases actually build within the structure all kinds of supporting mechanisms just to allow the teams to operate safely.

So anytime you have this happen, the structural integrity of the building now is totally in question. We still don't know why this happened. And so they'll be in there with their engineers. They'll do the assessments. And again, they're pushing as hard as they can to get to people.

And it's also the rainy season. So we're going to get lightning storms and heavy rains and all these things are going to just compound the response efforts.

BASH: Yes. Sure is in fact they're worried that a storm is coming right now. We saw some rain earlier. Craig Fugate, thank you so much.

[12:15:00]

BASH: We want you to stick around in case we get more information throughout the hour. Thanks for your expertise. We're going to have more on the horror in Surfside ahead. And also senators are heading to the White House to pitch the president on a bipartisan infrastructure deal. We're going to get more on that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: We're waiting to hear from Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida about the building collapse in Surfside. As we wait for that, as we speak a very important high stakes meeting happening at the White House.

A group of 10 senators, five Democrats, five Republicans are outlining a bipartisan framework on infrastructure the deal spends 959 billion taxpayer dollars far less than President Biden had wanted and far less even more so then progressive say they are willing to accept.

[12:20:00]

BASH: Back with our panel just to give a little bit more meat on the bone. As I said overall, the cost is 959 billion new spending, which is kind of the key here 559 billion. And what we're talking about is traditional infrastructure.

We're talking about roads, we're talking about broadband internet, and we're talking about electrical utilities, bridges, things of that nature. So the question is what is going to happen out of this meeting? You know, as we were talking about in the break, Kaitlan, the president likely wouldn't call them down at this stage in the game unless he was poised to bless this, barring anything unexpected.

COLLINS: That's the understanding. He's not really someone who typically blows up meetings in a fashion that you don't expect. So it is a good sign that they have now invited them to the White House, because that was kind of the thinking in the White House this past week was we're not going to invite them here for another meeting that doesn't actually turn into anything.

We'll wait until we've got what looks like a breakthrough agreement. And that's what this appears to be. And so they are meeting with President Biden right now. We saw these lawmakers leaving. And so the question is not just are they going to get the explicit endorsement of the White House because the White House knows what's in this.

They were in the meetings all day yesterday, on Capitol Hill. So this idea that Biden is not on the same team is - on the same page as his team is just not the case. The question is what happens after this? And what does this actually look like when it comes to timing?

Once they do have the finalization of what the - how they're paying for this and what that looks like, because we don't yet know, the exact mechanisms. We just have a general idea of that. And then, of course, whether or not we're how the rest of the caucus responds to this, because not only do they have to go to the more conservative members, they also have to go to the more progressive faction that has been pretty against what this has been shaping up to look like. So a lot of questions, but this is a big deal.

BASH: Yes, it is a big deal. And you mentioned the progressives. So for people who are not completely immersed in the minutiae of this, I can't imagine why you're not?

What's going on right now is progressives are saying, OK, we'll go for this bipartisan deal, as long as you give us an ironclad promise that there will later be a likely Democrats only deal which will go much further, which will go to some of their really key priorities, human infrastructure, as the president likes to call it, child care, elderly care.

Chuck Schumer yesterday said one has to go with the other. But here is what Joe Manchin one, Joe Manchin of West Virginia said to Manu Raju about the pairing these two together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Say that one is being held hostage to the other doesn't seem to be fair to me, but they're going to make those decisions. But we have to see what the plan is in here before I can say, oh, yes, you vote for this. And I'll vote for that. That's not what I have signed up for. I want to sign up for what's in the plan that makes sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Paul Kane is this just the dance that we see that play out before - plays out before there is a final deal or meaning is it just posturing? Or do we actually think that this is on the cusp of not happening?

KANE: There will be many bumps in the road, and it will get very dicey I think particularly in the House. It is really significant if Joe Biden goes before the cameras and says this is the deal I want. For weeks and weeks and months, really, we've just had a bunch of different people sort of running around doing their own thing like Bernie Sanders is trying to do a $6 trillion budget John Yarmuth talking about this for a House budget.

Finally, Biden is calling the plate saying, look, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do a bipartisan bill. And we're going to do this partisan reconciliation bill also, that's the track. But ultimately, the House of Representatives has a lot more - almost as narrow a margin.

It has fewer Republicans in the House who are going to be willing to vote for this bill. So every AOC Squad member, the progressives who vote against this bill, you have to backfill with House Republicans, that's going to be really hard to do.

ZANONA: And that's why the sequencing is so important here. That's what you heard today, Speaker Pelosi said, we're not going to pass this bipartisan bill in the House that the Senate send over until we see what their reconciliation package is until they pass that because those progressives want those ironclad commitments. That Sinema and Manchin aren't going to vote for the bipartisan deal and then not vote for the bigger package.

BASH: Yes. And why did - while the details matter a lot, because that determines whether or not this is going to get done. The fact that you have 10 senators, five Republicans, five Democrats in the White House on the cusp of a bipartisan deal and this climate is - I don't want to quote directly to the then vice president a big you know what?

Everybody's just standby, we are standing by for the Governor of Florida to give a news conference on what's happening there with the deadly building collapse that is coming up in moments. Don't go away.

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: More now out of Miami and a life or death scramble to save people from the wreckage. Any minute Florida officials including the governor will give us more details on the deadly condo building collapse. Right now at least 51 people are unaccounted for.

The Miami-Dade Mayor tweeting just minutes ago, just got off the phone with POTUS. He offered full support of the federal government to help our community during this difficult time. We continue to work with local, state and federal agencies as we respond.

[12:30:00]