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Inside Politics
Former Police Officer Kim Potter Testifies In Her Own Defense In Killing Of Daunte Wright. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired December 17, 2021 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
EARL GRAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: And was that before you looked up in the computer about this driver of the vehicle or after?
KIM POTTER, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: I don't know exactly. When he arrived, I know Officer Lackey and I were doing or Officer Lackey and I were discussing running the name he was given through some various systems.
GRAY: OK. And did you do that you an Officer Lackey?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: Was there any correction that you told him about, during this time that he shouldn't have put a name in one?
POTTER: He had gone to the Minnesota because the driver didn't provide him with any government issued I.D. He would had to verify some information to run him properly in our system through Tritec. So you run them sometimes through a Minnesota DVS with just a name and a date of birth, it'll give you a sound X hit various people with that same either same name or common name with a date of birth.
GRAY: So did you correct him on that?
POTTER: We were talking about it. I don't know if I corrected him on it but.
GRAY: So what happened after that,
POTTER: He would copy the OLN, which is a driver's license number off the screen and then put it into our Tritec system or CAD, and that would run through the state for driver's license and warrants and other hits.
GRAY: And did you find anything about the driver?
POTTER: The driver came back with a suspended driver's license, gross misdemeanor, benchmark for weapons, and protection order.
GRAY: So a gross misdemeanor for weapons ordinance. What went through your mind, if anything, when you read that?
POTTER: It would be concerning that there'd be a weapon on the person or in the vehicle?
GRAY: And why would that be?
POTTER: In my experience over 26 years, I have found guns and cars, either by accident or by them just being sitting out in plain view?
GRAY: And what about a person with a weapon's --
POTTER: They're more likely to be carrying a weapon or have a weapon access to them.
GRAY: So what about the temporary, was it a temporary restraining order that came up was it?
POTTER: I think they're called ex parte orders. It would be a temporary protection order until the parties would either have a court hearing in front of a judge to make it a permanent order.
GRAY: And there would be a name of a female on that order?
POTTER: Yes, there was.
GRAY: And was there a female in the Buick or in the automobile that was stopped?
POTTER: Yes, on the front, yes, in the front passenger seat.
GRAY: So after you learn that, did you also learn something it Officer Lackey tell you something about drugs or marijuana?
POTTER: He can't -- he went -- he initially got back to the car, he told me there was obvious smell of marijuana and some seedlings or shake residue on the center council inside the vehicle.
GRAY: OK, so with all of that information, what did you do next?
POTTER: We told -- Officer Lackey explained to Sergeant Johnson what was going on. My --
GRAY: Where was Sergeant Johnson? Was he in your squad car?
POTTER: He was standing at my passenger door.
GRAY: Go ahead.
POTTER: And Officer Lackey was explaining to Sergeant Johnson, what was happening and what we need -- what he wanted to do. Officer Lackey only told Sergeant Johnson that he had a warrant. And I told Officer Lackey that he needed to tell Sergeant Johnson what the warrant was for, a weapons violation warrant would be cause for care and concern.
GRAY: All right. And after that conversation, what happened if anything next?
POTTER: We got out of the vehicle, Sergeant Johnson was going to the passenger side -- GRAY: Excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt you. What was -- back up a little I'm getting ahead of me. What was the plan when you got out of your vehicle with Lackey and Johnson was outside? What was your plan?
POTTER: The plan was for Officer Lackey to get the driver into custody for the warrant. And we further investigate with the female who she wasn't if she was the petitioner or the subject of the restraining order.
GRAY: Were he required by policy and law in learning about that warrant to arrest the driver of that car.
POTTER: Yes, it was an order of the court.
GRAY: And with respect to the restraining order, or whatever you call it, did proper police procedure that you knew of for 26 years required to find out who that lady was?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And why would that be?
POTTER: It's my duty to find out who she is to make sure she is not in harm's way. There's been times when that hasn't happened and somebody has ended up killed because that wasn't followed.
GRAY: So now we're at the Buick -- it's a Buick car, white car?
POTTER: It's white car.
GRAY: And now we're at the white car. And you three one up to it, correct?
POTTER: Yes. Sergeant Johnson went up to the passenger side.
[12:35:00]
GRAY: Where did Johnson go?
POTTER: He went up the passenger side to provide cover.
GRAY: And what does provide cover means?
POTTER: Keep an eye on the occupants of the vehicle. And just to monitor what's happening outside in the world, see people are walking up on you or things go wrong.
GRAY: And where were you located?
POTTER: I was towards the left rear corner of the car.
GRAY: And where was Officer Lackey?
POTTER: He was advancing to the driver's door.
GRAY: And how, by the way before this, how long had you known Officer Lackey?
POTTER: I think we are on our fifth shift.
GRAY: And he was pretty new arrival was he or?
POTTER: I believe he was second phase maybe. But he had been a police officer before.
GRAY: OK, what a second phase mean?
POTTER: He wasn't in his initial four weeks. He was in the start of his second four weeks.
GRAY: And you testify, you know, at least back then that he had come from another police department, correct?
POTTER: Yes. I think he worked at two previous agencies and he was an explorer.
GRAY: OK. Now, let's go back to when you three arrived at the white car. We've already said where you're located. Officer Lackey was at the driver's door. Is that right?
POTTER: Yes, he would have been standing behind the post between the driver's door and the rear passenger door.
GRAY: What do you mean by that standing behind the post?
POTTER: He went up and directly in front of the door because that would be unsafe approach.
GRAY: And this was a -- was this a warm day, was the window down? Remember?
POTTER: I don't know if the window was down or not.
GRAY: OK. But in any event, where were you standing again?
POTTER: At the left rear corner.
GRAY: And did you hear what Officer Lackey said?
POTTER: Yes, I heard him ask the driver to step out of the vehicle a couple of times.
GRAY: And did the driver step out of the vehicle finally?
POTTER: Finally, he asked Officer Lackey a couple of times what was going on? And Officer Lackey said he would explain to him.
GRAY: When he got out of the car?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And so did the driver get out of the car?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And what do you remember happening next?
POTTER: Officer Lackey had him turn around and I think he was still asking what was going on. Sergeant Johnson --
GRAY: Who's he? Who's he?
POTTER: The driver.
GRAY: Go ahead.
POTTER: And Sergeant Johnson and Lackey told him he was under arrest. And I told him he had a warrant.
GRAY: OK, so who said he was under arrest first?
POTTER: Sergeant Johnson, I believe.
GRAY: Sergeant Johnson testify here, remember that?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: After he said that? Did Officer Lackey say he's under arrest too?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And you heard that?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And what did you say to him?
POTTER: I told him he had a gross miss -- I told him he had a warrant.
GRAY: You just said warrant?
POTTER: I think so.
GRAY: Did you specify what kind of warrant if you remember if you don't?
POTTER: I don't think I would have. It would have been in my normal.
GRAY: OK, so what happened after Johnson and Lackey said you're going to be handcuffed or you're under arrest. And you said that there was a warrant, what happened next?
POTTER: Officer Lackey he hadn't put his hands behind his back. And I noticed that in the driver's right hand was some type -- was something that was paper or something. And I took it out of his hand and I had it in my left hand.
GRAY: And you go down in your left hand.
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And then what happened next? Why did you strike that, when you did that, I take it you got closer to the driver?
POTTER: Yes. I reached into the driver's hand and took out what he added his right hand --
GRAY: Right hand or left hand?
POTTER: His right hand and I held it in my left hand.
GRAY: OK. And what happened next?
POTTER: Officer Lackey started to say something about don't do that, don't tense up, stop doing that, and then it just went chaotic.
GRAY: What do you remember happening after that?
POTTER: I remember a struggle with Officer Lackey and the driver at the door. The driver was trying to get back into the car.
GRAY: While he was trying to get back in the car, what did you do?
POTTER: I went around Officer Lackey as they're trying to get back in the door I'm between the door and Officer Lackey and the driver and the driver is getting into the car.
GRAY: And what happened next.
POTTER: They're still struggling and I can see Sergeant Johnson and the driver is struggling over the gear shifts because I can see Johnson's hand and then I can see his face.
[12:40:06]
GRAY: And you know Johnson for many years before this is that right?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And by looking at his face at that point in time, what did you interpret it to me?
POTTER: He had a look of fear on his face. It's nothing I've seen before.
GRAY: Did you say anything when you saw this? What did you do?
POTTER: We are struggling. We are trying to keep them from driving away. It's just -- it just went chaotic. It's -- and then I remember yelling, taser, taser, taser, and nothing happens. And then he told me I shot him.
GRAY: Can you proceed or?
POTTER: Yes. It's fine. GRAY: OK. After the driver said, you shot him? Do you remember what you said? Or do you -- if you don't remember, did you look at the video and see what you said? Or do you actually remember what you said? I guess is my question not withheld from the video.
POTTER: I don't remember what I said.
GRAY: And what do you remember next, if anything?
POTTER: I -- they had an ambulance for me. And I don't know why. And then I went, then I was at the station. I don't remember a lot of things afterwards.
GRAY: Do you remember saying something about prison?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: If he did say that, do you have any idea now why he would say that?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: Was the climate back then about police officers a little rough?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The objection is sustained.
GRAY: All right. You don't remember saying it?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: And you don't know why you said it?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: Did you remember the response or Sergeant Johnson or Major Johnson gave you?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: And when next do you remember what happened, if anything if you remember anything?
POTTER: I remember getting an ambulance and then it was at the station.
GRAY: OK. And you remember being on the ambulance arriving at the station?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: You don't remember in the station.
POTTER: No. I remember getting to the station.
GRAY: Once you got to the station, do you remember what happened next?
POTTER: The next thing I remember is Officer Fricke was in the room with me.
GRAY: And where were you located, do you remember that?
POTTER: In the front office.
GRAY: OK. In the front office room, do you remember were you sitting down standing up?
POTTER: I was on the floor.
GRAY: And after that at some point in time, did your husband show up?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: At what time do you believe I'm back there April 11th, what time do you believe that your memory came back to you?
POTTER: Probably when my husband got there, so much of it is missing.
GRAY: After that night and for the last few months, have you met in therapy?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And did you? You still work as a police officer there?
POTTER: No.
GRAY: Did you quit?
POTTER: I did.
GRAY: And this was your career?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And when did you quit?
POTTER: A day or two after the incident?
GRAY: And why did you quit?
POTTER: There so much bad things happening I didn't want my coworkers and I didn't want anything bad to happen to the city.
[12:45:08]
GRAY: And did you own a home in an old car Hennepin County at the time?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: You and your husband? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me? The objection is relevant. The objection is overruled.
GRAY: Did you own a home, your family home for years past?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And did you sell it?
POTTER: Eventually.
GRAY: Before you sold it, you move on to the state?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: And you know a lot of state?
POTTER: Yes.
GRAY: Grab a moment, your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRAY: Thank you. I'm done, your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Eldridge (INAUDIBLE).
ERIN ELDRIDGE, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning, Ms. Potter.
POTTER: Good morning.
ELDRIDGE: You've been a police officer or a police officer for 26 years.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You said you started in 1995.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that was with the Brooklyn Center Police Department for that entire career, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you said that you resigned from the Brooklyn Center Police Department, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that was on April 12th of this year, right?
POTTER: Yes. Between a day or two of the incident.
ELDRIDGE: Right after you had shot and killed Daunte Wright?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And throughout that time, period, you were a licensed Peace Officer, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And to become licensed, you have to go through a number of requirements there.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You had a college degree.
GRAY: Excuse me your Honor, may I ask you to speak into that mic too.
ELDRIDGE: Sure.
GRAY: Thank you.
ELDRIDGE: You have a college degree, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you also had to complete the peace officer education program. That's that skills component that you talked about?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that included skill sets and classroom training as well.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You had to pass an exam to become an officer?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And then you did all that before you started with the Brooklyn Center Police Department in '95, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And then you got your license through the POST board, correct?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that stands for Peace Officer Standards and Training.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So you were licensed throughout that whole 26 year career, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you maintained all of the requirements to keep your license?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Including all the training that was required for it as well, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that training that's required for your license has all different kinds of components, true?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You have things like use of force, use of firearms, tasers, all kinds of things?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you did you did all that training?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you did all that every year throughout that 26-year period, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Sometimes multiple times a year, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And all of those requirements were in place to make sure that you continued were at the beginning of your career and continued to be, you know, competent and capable of performing the requirements of the job, right.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You mentioned direct that you were also a hostage negotiator as part of your duties, right?
POTTER: Crisis negotiator.
ELDRIDGE: Crisis negotiator. Did that involve some hostage type situations?
POTTER: I've never had a hostage situation.
ELDRIDGE: OK. But crisis negotiation.
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that involved some de-escalation tactics, I presume, correct?
POTTER: Yes. ELDRIDGE: And you have to develop that skill set and be pretty good at de-escalating situations as a crisis negotiator, fair?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So you had some experience in stressful situations doing that?
POTTER: No.
ELDRIDGE: So you were a crisis negotiator but never experienced a stressful situation?
[12:50:01]
POTTER: We talk to people.
ELDRIDGE: Talk to people in crisis?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And part of your job as a police officer is dealing with people on their worst days, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: People who don't want to cooperate with you sometimes, right?
POTTER: Most of the people we talked to in crisis are either barricaded behind a door or talking to you in from another room.
ELDRIDGE: OK. For 26 years you were a patrol officer, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So you saw people out on the street every day as part of your job duties?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you talked about doing a lot of traffic stops during that career, correct?
POTTER: I did some traffic stops.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Well, in some of those cases, there are people who have weapons, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Sometimes people want to flee, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Sometimes people are violent. POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And all that's part of being a police officer, dealing with people in those situations, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You'd agree that you're bound by policy and the requirements of the job that Brooklyn Center, the police department sets for you, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you heard Commander Flesland testify. But yes, you have to acknowledge those policies and essentially agreed to abide by them every year you were an officer, fair?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you'd agree that your fundamental duty as a police officer is to safeguard life, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you also have the duty to never employ unnecessary force, true?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Part of the policy also includes some of your responsibilities as an officer, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that includes being alert and attentive and capable of performing your job, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And getting back to the training and sort of the POST requirements, there are a lot of training that goes into being a police officer, fair?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And we talked about a couple of those things, but one of those subjects is use of force, right?
POTTER: Mm-mm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that a yes?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And use of force can include things like restraints, handcuffs, defensive tactics, chemical irritants, using batons, tasers, less lethal weapons, and firearms as well, right, all those things are options available to you, true?
POTTER: Not all of them.
ELDRIDGE: OK, well, you carry a whole number of things on your duty belt every day, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that includes a firearm and a taser, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you also had other items on that duty belt as well, correct?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And as part of the training that you went through every year, they cover topics, all kinds of uses of force, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Including the things on your duty belt, and maybe other options that the department could use additionally, true?
POTTER: Only the things I was assigned on my duty belt.
ELDRIDGE: OK. But in any case, that use of force training was a pretty key component of being an officer, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You were trained about when you could use force, how much force to use? And what would be appropriate force, fair?
POTTER: Fair.
ELDRIDGE: And not only were you trained on that, but you had a lot of policy that that dictated what you could and could not do in a particular situation, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you were also trained on the readiness aspects of use of force, right? Being ready to engage whatever force might be required, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Including making decisions under stress, right?
POTTER: What do you mean?
ELDRIDGE: Well, you had a lot of scenario based training, right?
POTTER: Yes. ELDRIDGE: And in those situations, those scenarios were set up to be as close as they could be to real life, right?
POTTER: I suppose.
ELDRIDGE: So you would be trained to have to make decisions in the moment about what to do and what force to use, right?
POTTER: Was a training situation, so it was usually slow and meticulous and controlled.
ELDRIDGE: Well, you did this year after year, right for the entirety of your career, correct?
POTTER: I think scenario based training started later, probably last 10 or 15 years.
ELDRIDGE: Sure, but use force training has been around for a long time, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Has -- since you he started as a police officer, you have in some cases had to use force, true?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And there are limitations on how and when to use that force, right?
[12:55:01]
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So you've had training on that throughout your entire career, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And as part of that process, the way that it's required for you to maintain your license is that you sign in and you sign off on attendance forms. And you basically you have to be there, right, you can't not be there, right?
POTTER: Right.
ELDRIDGE: And every year, you have a certain number of training hours that are required, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you said on direct that you participated, and you were paying attention during all those trainings, true?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And some of those trainings had classroom instruction, PowerPoints, things like that, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Some of them also included reviewing policies and other documents, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And then there was also the hands on training with the practical components, things like using drawing, drawing weapons, things like that, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And over the course of your career, you completed many, many, many hours of training, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And in terms of credit hours, we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 1,700 credit hours, does that sound right?
POTTER: I don't know the number of hours. But if that's what you have, that would be probably, right.
ELDRIDGE: No reason to dispute that your training hours would have been in the thousands of hours over that 26 year career, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: You indicated that there weren't tasers available when you first started that Brooklyn Center, true?
POTTER: No, they came in the early 2000s.
ELDRIDGE: OK. But in 1996, you had a firearm, right?
POTTER: 1995, yes.
ELDRIDGE: Sorry. '95. And then you were sworn in '96, right?
POTTER: No, was sworn in February 27th, 1995.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So in '95, when you first started, you had a firearm available to you?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you were trained to use that firearm?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you were trained to use that firearm?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Train how to handle it, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Trained how to load it and unload it?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Trained how to draw it?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And fire it and how to safely handle it, yes?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And that included when not to fire it, right?
POTTER: I suppose.
ELDRIDGE: And that training started the beginning of your career, you said in '95 but continued every year up until the time you resigned, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Now you indicated that tasers came later, but you were first trained on using a taser in 2002, correct?
POTTER: If that's what the documents say, I'm not sure when they came out.
ELDRIDGE: And if the documents say you were trained in 2002, you then would have been trained every year thereafter, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you started carrying a taser on your duty belt regularly as of 2005, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: But at a minimum, in addition to all the other training you had, you would have had taser training year after year for at least the last 19 years, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And the taser training that's required. You saw the documents that were in court also requires not only review of, it requires review of policy, right, the Taser policy, right?
POTTER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And it also requires practicing those reaction site draws, correct?
POTTER: Sometimes.
ELDRIDGE: All right, if we could put up Exhibit 334, please, the last page. On the screen was already been admitted as Exhibit 334. And we're going to scroll down to the very last page and highlight the Subsection C, please. So part of the Taser policy includes that all training should include performing reaction hand draws or cross draws to reduce the possibility of accidentally drawing and firing a firearm. That's part of the policy, right?
POTTER: That's what it says.
ELDRIDGE: And that's part of what you're trained to do, correct?
POTTER: We didn't always draw from our - we aren't always drawing our tasers from our holsters. A lot of times we're in plainclothes during training.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Well, your policy that you're required to abide by that you signed off on required that you perform an action hand draw, true?
[13:00:03]
POTTER: During the training, yes.
ELDRIDGE: It also includes the reason for that, right?
POTTER: Yes.
