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Trump Calls For Nationwide Protests If Prosecutors Indict Him. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 31, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PATRICK MCENROE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Coming up, in addition to we hope to see some amazing performances from some winter sport athletes as well.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Exactly right. Well, we'd love to focus more on the athletes unless on all of it's going around them, but it is what it is. It's good to see you, Patrick. Thank you so much. Thanks all for being here. Really appreciate it. Inside Politics with John King starts now.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us. A diplomatic showdown today, the United States and Russia meet at the United Nations Security Council. This, as no one is quite sure whether Russia's Vladimir Putin plans to invade Ukraine.

Plus, Boris Johnson asked for trusts and he asked for time. The British Prime Minister says he gets it and he will fix the problems inside his own government that after a damning report puts the blame for parties at the height of COVID lockdown squarely on leadership at number 10.

And just moments ago, President Biden says the United States now at another COVID crossroads that includes a key question that will shape the next few months. How should state, cities, and towns decide when to back off pandemic restrictions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are at an inflection point. America is one of those nations, I think the only nation that's come out of every crisis stronger than it went into the crisis. We got a way to go on that in my view, but we're moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: But we begin this hour with the former president. This weekend of lies and reckless promises and the debate between Republicans who adore him and Republicans who abhor him. At a Texas Rally Saturday, Donald Trump talked up a comeback and just what that would bring. His list included talk of pardoning those convicted of attacking the Capitol and the country on January 6th last year. Then last night, Trump issued a statement the January 6th Committee will no doubt take as a confession. The former president says it is unfortunate that Mike Pence didn't overturn the 2020 election.

Let's begin our conversation this hour with Maggie Haberman of The New York Times. And Maggie, you tweeted last night that Trump was saying the quiet out loud when he issued this statement. I just want to read it. He's talking about the efforts now to reform the Electoral College Act says actually, what they are saying is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome. And now they want to take that right away. Unfortunately, he didn't exercise that power. He could have overturned the election.

The vice president does not have that right. But what did that tell you about Donald Trump's mindset and thinking at this juncture?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's in John, burn it all down mode. And I think has been for quite some time. It raises questions for me candidly about the vetting process around the statements that are going out, because that was a jarring statement, I think not just for the January 6th Committee, but probably for lawyers involved in the civil suits against Donald Trump related to the riot at the Capitol on January 6th.

I think that you take all of these statements from the weekend. And by the way, John, we missed one, which was that at his rally, the former president urged people if any clearly the investigations into the former president are on his mind. There's one in Georgia related to the election. And then there are two in Georgia. And there are two in Manhattan related to him that are linked and those are about his business. He is clearly concerned about them, because he suggested to his followers that there should be protests in major cities, if anything happens, the prosecutors do toward him that he doesn't like.

So, you take all that together, and you see the portrait of somebody who really doesn't care anymore and wants to put it all on his terms. And who knows that he can keep pushing the bounds and they're basically so far, other than losing the election, which is not nothing, but other than losing the election, there have not been that many penalties.

KING: And let's listen to that. Because the key point that Donald Trump still holds sway, we can debate over how many people, but we know over a significant part slice of the Republican Party. We all know what happened. We saw with our own eyes on January 6th, there are some people who support Trump, who are OK with the idea of attacking institutions and violence. This is what he said about those investigations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: If these radical vicious racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protests we have ever had in Washington, DC, in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt. They're corrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's an important point you make, Maggie, because even in a vacuum, that's a remarkably provocative and dangerous statement with the history of January 6th, just one year in the rearview mirror and with his Fulton County investigation unfolding. The prosecutor there today Fani Willis says, she's asking the FBI for help with security because she's worried about threats.

HABERMAN: That's right. Look, I mean, John, listen, what he said about the pardons and dangling pardons for January 6th riot detainees, if he wins again and becomes the president again, was provocative enough, but to me candidly, that statement that you just played was the big headline out of that rally.

You look at what happened on January 6th, you look at - there was the president talking, not just at an event at this rally before this riot, but he had been talking for weeks about how he believed the election have been stolen from him, making all kinds of have false claims about widespread fraud for which he never offered up evidence, but his supporters believed it and so if you have him saying to people, if there is a move against me from

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prosecutors essentially saying, go, rise up, that can have real consequences. And what we have seen over and over again, when people have been tempted to say, what's the harm in sort of letting Trump vent or what's the harm in him doing this? There are people who take him at his word and carry that what they think that word means out.

KING: Right, we're well past that point, as you know, just let him vent, let him vent. We now know what can happen. Maggie Haberman, as always grateful for your reporting and your insights. Let's get some more now reporting CNN's Melanie Zanona, Astead Herndon of The New York Times and Margaret Talev of Axios. And Melanie, I want to start with you, because this is - you spent a lot of time covering the January 6th investigation up on Capitol Hill. This is again, these are people charged with attacking the United States Capitol. Some have been charged with seditious treason.

The former president of the United States says reelect me and this will happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6th fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons, because they are being treated so unfairly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And it's a remarkable statement, I guess you could say as transparent as could be.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: It's absolutely remarkable. And for me, what's really striking is Republicans have struggled to talk about January 6th. They want to put it in the rearview mirror. But here you have Donald Trump essentially making it the centerpiece of a potential 2024 campaign. He's saying put me in office, and I will exonerate insurrectionists and punish those who dare to try to investigate me. You also have Newt Gingrich, who was out there just last week saying this Select Committee members could be potentially thrown in jail for trying to investigate the January 6th insurrection.

So, I think it's really difficult for Republicans especially in those battlegrounds, and in those states where they're trying not to talk about this, but you have the leader of their party continuing to spread these false claims. And none of the GOP leaders are pushing back on it very hard.

KING: And the question is one of timing also, instead of the sense that Donald Trump maybe thinking about 2024. But everything he says impacts the climate here in 2022, which if you look at the data, and all the metrics right now should be a good year at least opens as a good year for Republicans. But there is the debate about what is Trump's role. Asa Hutchinson, the Republican Governor of Arkansas, who is not running for re-election, so perhaps he feels more freedom to speak here, said this on Saturday, I do not believe Trump is the one to lead our party and our country again as president, but that is sort of the - gut - a lot of Republican governors talk like that. It is less likely you can get talk like that here in Washington.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Absolutely. I mean, this is coming from multiple places. You have a president that has a complete and total grip on the base of the party. And you have elected officials that are wrestling with that fact, even though it's a fact that they wish were not true. I mean, Republicans basic feeling right now is if they stand, if they stand pat and do nothing, they think that they're going to have a good midterms.

Donald Trump isn't one who is prone to stand around and do nothing. He is going to - he is going to rock the boat, and he is going to talk about his grievances, which are specifically those cultural ones was specifically that election fraud falsehoods. And we know that that's going to become a theme of his rallies going forward. Certainly, that is a problem for - a potential problem for Republicans in this midterm. But it's also a problem for Democrats. There is a real constituency base for that message that he is speaking to and energizing. And it's also most importantly, a problem for democracy, because this is an unprecedented situation, to have a leader of a party so blatantly casting doubt on our democratic process.

And frankly, acting as if the other side - of the poor tenets of our democracy are invalid. It's unprecedented.

KING: And so, let's listen some more, Margaret, to how Republicans talk about this. You're going to hear from the Governor of New Hampshire, Republican Senator from Maine. The tones a little different. We'll talk about on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS SUNUNU (R) NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: The folks that were part of the riots, and frankly, the assault on the U.S. Capitol have to be held accountable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They shouldn't be pardoned.

SUNUNU: Of course not. Oh, my goodness, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you imagine any circumstances where you could support his election in 2024?

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): But we're a long ways from 2024.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But why can't you rule out supporting him in 2024.

COLLINS: But certainly, it's not likely given the many other qualified candidates that we have that have expressed interest in running. So, it's very unlikely.

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KING: It's just fascinating when you listen to that,. Number one, the governor of New Hampshire Mr. Sununu has a spine, he's not afraid to talk, say no to Donald Trump. But Susan Collins just won re-election. There's a huge Trump base in the state of Maine. I get it. I get it, but she just won re-election. She has six years. Why not just say no, I don't want him anymore? We know that's what she thinks, but she won't say it.

MARGARET TALEV, MANAGING EDITOR, AXIOS: This is a classic Susan Collins answer. Look, John, I think we are seeing a couple of things. One is that it's just really hard for Republicans to have it both ways. They want the energy, the enthusiasm. They want to bring along Trump's base. They see 2022 as a year where it would be unforgivable

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if they didn't recapture at least the House by a lot, and maybe the Senate. And so, they want to be able to harness that energy, but then they want to firewall it when it gets to, like, actual rule of law stuff like American democracy. So, you saw even Lindsey Graham come out yesterday saying like, no, we're not going to have this discussion about pardoning January 6th attackers.

But again, having it both ways where Trump is endorsing people, raising money, raising enthusiasm, attacking Biden, doing all that stuff that they say he's good at, that helps the Republican Party, but then stopping him where they want to stop is very, very tough. And that's why you're seeing these behind the scenes efforts with the Electoral Account Reform Act, but it is really, really - going to be difficult for the party to juggle both of those balls at the same time.

KING: It is remarkable and something to watch as we move forward through this year. You have the governors saying one thing, most Republican senators prefer not to talk about Trump, but you have the House Republican Party, which is still very loyal, for the most part to the former president, something to watch as we go through the year. Everybody standby.

Right now, the United Nations Security Council wrapping up an emergency session. The issue, Russia's massive troop buildup along its border with Ukraine.

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KING: There was an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council today. That meeting over Russia's objection, the United States demanded the meeting to discuss the Russian military buildup along its border with Ukraine and to call out Russia's insistence that it is doing nothing wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Russia's aggression today not only threaten Ukraine, it also threatens Europe. It threatens the international order this body is charged with upholding. An order that if it stands for anything, stands for the principle that one country cannot simply redraw another country's borders by force or make another country's people live under a government they did not choose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get some insights now from Democratic Congressman Colin Allred of Texas just back from a bipartisan congressional trip to meet with top Ukrainian officials. You see the Congressman's tweet there, pictures with President Zelensky and others. Congressman, let me just quickly start with a personal question when you got back from that trip, you told people that you tested positive for COVID. You OK.

REP. COLIN ALLRED (D-TX): I am OK. Thanks for asking. Basically, mild cold right now and I know that's because.

KING: Froze the shot there. We'll take a quick break. See if we're going to reestablish that communication with the congressman. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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KING: Let's bring back Democratic Congressman Colin Allred of Texas. Congressman, little glitch there, technical glitch. I think we have fixed it. You're a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee just back from this bipartisan trip to Ukraine. We showed your tweet before we lost you, before the break. Meetings with President Zelensky and others. What did you learn on the trip particularly about this issue? You know, President Biden and his team keep saying an invasion is imminent and to support that they cite not only 100,000 plus troops, but the movement of medical units, the movement of plasma and the likes of the border.

And the Ukrainian officials, according to President Zelensky keep playing that down? Do they truly believe that that Putin does not intend to invade? Or is that more of let's not cause a panic, let's not cause a run on banks?

ALLRED: Well, I think they're in a difficult spot. They want to prepare their people for what's coming. But they don't want to, as you said, create a panic. And so, they're, at times, I think trying to thread that needle to try and not also provide Russia with some kind of pretext to say that they're moving aggressively, and then the Russians can come in. So, it really is a difficult balance for them. I understand that. But certainly, in our conversations with them, I think they're aware of the threat. They're very aware of the threat. They're aware of the troop movements, they're aware of the positioning, and they also are asking for help.

KING: When you say they're asking for help? What specifically are they asking that they have not received so far?

ALLRED: I think they're just asking for more of the same. They need ammunition, they need body armor, they need an anti-tank weaponry, they really need everything, and they'll take whatever they can get. And I think they understand that they need to be lethal, they need to be survivable. And that for them, a lot of this is about trying to deter Russia, they do not want to have an invasion obviously, they want to show that they are willing to fight, they've been fighting them really since 2014, in the East, when Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. And so, they've been at war with Russia, and they understand that they're willing and ready to fight, but they need the tools to do it.

KING: Right. We're showing this map as you speak, especially with a lot of new positions that Russian troops have taken up, essentially, if you look at three, it's on three sides, all three, the three sides of Ukraine that Russia can cover from its territory, and inside Ukrainian territory, Russia has seized in Crimea.

When you discuss this troop buildup with the Ukrainians, what is their take on, when it might happen? There has been a lot of conversations that Putin is either going to go in the next couple of days, or he's going to wait till after the Olympics. Is that plausible?

ALLRED: Well, no one knows. And I think in our meetings, they said, if someone thinks they know, then they're really not telling the truth. Because we're dealing here and Putin, a leader who was really acting, I think, emotionally in a lot of ways, who is not always acting tactically, here, he does have a window of time in which it's better for him to do this. But also, this entire aggression towards Ukraine is really about bringing back in a state that he thinks should be part of the Russian orbit that he knows is leaving him. And so, it really isn't about a strategy per se. It's more, I think, emotional in terms of what he feels the Russian pre-Soviet era was and what it could be again.

KING: And one of the debates in your workplace, the Congress is a package of sanctions and some sanctions many people say should be right away, already. Putin has done things that cross the line, and then have sort of a plan B, that if he were to invade. Listen to Bob Menendez, the chairman - Democratic Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He says they are very close.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): I would describe it as that we are on the one yard line. The devastating sanctions that ultimately would crush Russia's economy and the continuing lethal aid that we

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are going to send, which means Putin has to decide how many body bags of Russian sons are going to return to Russia. The sanctions that we're talking about would come later on if he invades. Some sanctions would come up for what has been done already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What's your take on this? Number one, is the House and the Senate largely on the same page, and that this could be done pretty quickly if the Senate gets to the finish line? And number two, how much punch now and how much wait to see what Putin does?

ALLRED: Yes, well, any sanctions resumed to be effective is going to have to involve the EU. And so, to do that, we know that that's likely only going to be possible after a Russian act. And so, we have to understand that Germany and other countries within the EU, I think have expressed their interest in that they're going to hold Russia accountable if they do actually invade Ukraine, but they don't think that preemptive sanctions is the way to go about doing that. And so, we don't have an EU sized hole in any sanctions regime that we put forward.

That being said, I do think there's a lot of agreement on the House and Senate side that we will have to have crippling sanction package ready to go the moment anything happens. And so, I'm interested to see what Senator Menendez is talking about in terms of any things beforehand, because that won't necessarily have to be unilateral involving just the United States, maybe Canada, maybe the UK.

KING: We know, let me ask you lastly, the Secretary of State Mr. Blinken is going to speak to Foreign Minister Lavrov tomorrow. It's good, of course, that the two sides are still talking. Do you see any evidence that Russia wants a diplomatic off ramp?

ALLRED: Yes, I hope so. I hope so. I do wonder sometimes whether or not the Russian diplomats are even empowered to make and to provide for a diplomatic off ramp when really there's one person who's going to decide what happens here and that's Vladimir Putin. And as I said earlier, I think this is in many ways, an emotional action from him. And so it may be that, Minister Lavrov will meet with us, and we'll try and find a way forward. And we've seen some small cracks they put forward that make it seem like there may be a diplomatic pathway forward here.

But we also know that they're going to have - looking for some kind of face saving action on the Russian side, given the enormous troop buildup that they've caused here, all the destabilization they've already caused. And so, I think it's going to be difficult, but I'm still hoping for it. I'm still pushing for that.

KING: I hope you're right about that part. The optimistic part at the end, Congressman, we'll stay in touch throughout. Appreciate your time today. Thank you.

ALLRED: Thanks.

KING: Thank you. The UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson delivered a public apology today after the release of a damning report detailing parties at 10 Downing Street during COVID lockdown. That report cited excessive consumption of alcohol at 10 Downing and said some staffers there felt unable to raise their concerns about poor workplace conduct. There's also ongoing police investigation into these parties leading to calls for the prime minister's resignation. Today, he told parliament, he's sorry.

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BORIS JOHNSON, UK PRIME MINISTER: I get it, and I will fix it. And I want to say to the people of this country, I know what the issue is. Yes, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it's whether this government can be trusted to deliver. And I say Mr. Speaker, yes, we can be trusted. Yes, we can be trusted to deliver.

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KING: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is live in London for us. Wow for the prime minister, a big confrontation. What's the latest?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: You hear him there saying I get it and I will fix it, John. But I think a lot of people in this country absolutely are not going to buy that. This report that we've been waiting for four weeks now looking into 16 different social gatherings, essentially 16 parties that took place during lockdown in this country, that scathing report reading the way he would scold a naughty school child telling the government they have to remember that excessive alcohol can't be drunk at the workplace, that they must uphold the high standards that are required of this office. That they have failed the British public.

The prime minister was back in parliament today and he apologized yet again. But it was one of those half apologies John, the kind that's I'm sorry that I got caught. But I'm not sorry enough to step down. So, the opposition lawmaker Keir Starmer was very quick to call him out. Take a listen.

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KEIR STARMER, BRITISH OPPOSITION LEADER: Over the last two years, the British public have been asked to make the most heart wrenching sacrifices, a collective trauma endured by all, enjoyed by none, and revelations about the promised behavior have forced us all to rethink and relive those darkest moments.

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ABDELAZIZ: Those sacrifices John, those sacrifices are what have so many in the British public outrage. Remember what we learned in school, a government for the people, by the people. Right now, this government does not appear, it is for the people. It is behaving as if it is above the law.