Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Senator Chuck Schumer Isn't Focused on 2024 Election; Jeffrey Clark Being Interviewed by January 6 Insurrection Committee; Senator Ben Ray Lujan (D), NM, Suffered a Stroke. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 02, 2022 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: I'm not at all focused on 2024 right now and neither should anyone else be. That's just how you lose in 2022." I get the point, if you're thinking too far ahead, your -- have trouble in the last election. But, isn't that his reality? Some Democrats are still made.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's pretty remarkable to hear a Senate leader not exactly say whether or not he would support one of his own senators running for re-election. Typically that's, of course, expected. Any senator who is running can get -- essentially will -- expect that the Republican -- the leadership, Republican or Democrat will fall behind him.

I suspect that Schumer ultimately will, but it does speak to the tension that has grown because of the strategy that he along with Joe Biden have pushed, mainly over voting rights. That being what they focused on at the beginning of this Congress this year.

And they knew that there was no chance of changing Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema's mind over changing the Senate filibuster rules to get that through. And that sparked so much animosity among the left, where there are calls almost every day to primary Manchin and Sinema.

But, Schumer wants to stay away from that all together and says that he has no regrets in pushing forward for those votes, saying, those -- Senators came here to vote and we should vote.

KING: And so, one of the conversations for the past year has been if Chuck Schumer knew Joe Manchin wasn't going to budge. If he knew Sinema was not going to budge why didn't he get to the president early on? Why didn't he get out ahead of this early on and say these things are too big, they're not going to pass, we need to trim them?

And the suspicion has been, well he's worried that Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez or some liberal Democrat might primary him because he's on the ballot in New York this year. Here's what he said in the interview with you guys. "When it comes to re-election I work really hard for New York and it always works out fine. I'm always looking forward, not over my shoulder."

Isaac, does that pass the sniff test?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Look, I started out covering New York politics. Anybody who's covered New York politics knows that Chuck Schumer takes running around New York State very seriously. He goes to every county of the state every year. He's always paranoid in his own mind about what's going to happen.

But it is not a question in anyone's mind that he's been extra concerned in the last couple years, especially watching Ocasio-Cortez come up, beat an incumbent in a primary and have to see whether he would have to worry about that himself. So, he's been making moves, it seems to a lot of people to protect himself against that.

KING: Maybe, Manu, Chuck Schumer thought not telling the White House and Nancy Pelosi about this conversation about the document with Manchin maybe he thought that would work last year. What are the lessons as we look forward now?

Have these Democrats give -- and Schumer principally here figured out how to work in the New Year or are they still in what you'd have to say has been so far a difficult but dysfunction?

RAJU: Well, that's been the problem them, is because they have promised so much, that they could get so much done without recognizing or at least publicly dealing with the reality here. They have a 50/50 Senate; in just three votes they can lose in the House and any one defection could scuttle their entire efforts. So, in a lot of ways they have not.

So even if Chuck Schumer back in the summer agreed to what Joe Manchin had put forward, say $1.5 trillion to move forward on that larger Build Back Better plan, they would have almost certainly caused a revolt in the House and perhaps that would have blown up in Schumer's face if they had done just that. So, it just speaks to the real challenges that had to get so much through.

They promised a lot, they got stuff through. They got infrastructure done, they got a COVID relief law done. They've confirmed more than 40 judges in their first year and they could potentially confirm a Supreme Court justice as well. But still, a lot of Democrats unhappy that they couldn't do more.

KING: I urge everyone to go to CNNpolitics.com, take a look at it, get the perspective. You agree, might agree, might disagree, that Chuck Schumer has one of the most difficult jobs in Washington. It's a fascinating piece.

Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it very much.

DOVERE: Thank you. KING: Coming up for us a Senator's health scare highlights the fragility of the Democrat's 50/50 hold on what we were just talking about there, the United States Senate.

[12:33:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:25]

KING: I bring you some breaking news on what could be a very important witness for the January 6 investigative committee. You're looking there at video of Jeffrey Clark.

He worked in the Trump Justice Department. He at, one point, recommended Donald Trump fire the acting attorney general and put him in charge. And he promised Trump that he would look into baseless allegations of voting fraud.

Now, the committee had held Mr. Clark in contempt while there were trying to get his testimony. You see him there going into a room that is often used by the committee.

Our reporters will stay on top of this and try to figure out the significance of the development. But just Jeffrey Clark being there, to me, with the committee is important in its own right. We'll stay on top of that one for you.

A health scare in the United States Senate now serving as a reminder Democrats have literally no votes to spare.

New Mexico Democratic Senator Ben Ray Lujan is in an Albuquerque hospital today. The 49-year-old Democrat, quote, began experiencing dizziness and fatigue on Thursday according to his chief of staff. And the senator was found to have suffered a stroke in the cerebellum.

He subsequently underwent decompressive surgery to ease the swelling. "Senator Lujan is", as his chief of staff says, "resting comfortably and expected to make a full recovery."

That statement though did not say when he might return to Washington.

Our reporters are back with us. And Seung Min Kim, it just gets to the point, number one, we wish the senator well.

Number two, his colleagues do seem to say that early indication that he'll make a recovery here and should be back in a matter of a few weeks.

But it just reminds us at a very consequential time while the president's trying to get his agenda back on track in the Senate. He's a couple weeks away from naming a new Supreme Court vacancy. This is not a moment the Democrats have 50/50. This one sends a little shivers through them.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And it's just such a stark reminder of the fragility of the 50/50 Senate and the Democratic majority.

[12:40:00]

I actually asked Senator Dick Durbin, the second-ranking Democrat, about this earlier this week, because Senator Durbin has been fond of saying all year, you know -- you know -- since 2021, that we are just kind one heartbeat away from losing the majority.

And especially with the Supreme Court nomination on the table, they are -- I mean, for the past year, you know, senior senators, the leadership, the staff have been working and trying to push their agenda as quickly as possible as if there's no tomorrow.

And right now there's just -- there's a lot of obvious concern about Senator Lujan, his health, when he can make a return to the Senate. And also, just what this means for their agenda. They're plowing through some lower-level nominations right now. They are getting Republican support for those positions.

But, what about a Supreme Court justice, how does that calculate -- go into President Biden's calculation. All very, very key questions that we're going to be watching for.

KING: All right, and Abby, Senator Chris Coons telling our Capitol Hill team, "This is a reminder," Senator Lujan's setback here, "the 50/50 Senate with important work in front of us, any unforeseen or difficult developments can make that harder."

The wish list, and again you just heard the conversation with Isaac and Manu about, you know, Senator Chuck Schumer trying to navigate this 50/50 Senate. They want to pass a Russia Sanctions Bill. They hope that's a bipartisan bill. Supreme Court nominee, they hope to get a few Republicans, we'll see. Build Back Better Act, can they revive it? Voting Rights Bill, can they revive it?

You know, I know there's a lot of anger in the Democratic Party, why can't they get these things done. Senator Lujan's stroke is a reminder here that, you know 50/50 is incredibly hard.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes it's really difficult. And I think for all of those agenda items that they want to accomplish it was going to be hard anyway. But the real anxiety about the Supreme Court nominee is in part because there's a fraction of this timetable that is right in President Biden's hands.

He has to decide who that nominee is and what kind of timetable he's on to do that makes a big difference, because the Senate has a process and some of that process can't really be short-circuited in a certain way.

And so, that's why you're seeing a lot of Democrats saying, OK, on this thing where we have some control over half of the process we should get a name on the table as quickly as possible so that we don't leave anything to chance. KING: And that -- and Julie, this is -- this is your wheelhouse. It

comes -- this comes, and again, we wish the senator the best. It comes at a time you see the raw emotions in the Democratic Party.

Senator Manchin, just this week, saying in his view Build Back Better, that big Democratic spending social safety net plan, he says it dead. That's his four-letter word for it, dead.

To which Bernie Sanders says, "If Mr. Manchin chooses to side with corporate America on this issue, that's his business. But for me and I think millions of Americans we have to fight for the needs of workings families."

So you have this raw moment in a Democratic caucus that is 50/50, now nervous a little bit about one of its members.

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS; CONGRESSIONAL EDITOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well right. And you had the reminder of sort of the fragility of the majority at the same time that we had the reminder that the effect of that is that any one senator, like Joe Manchin, has effective veto power over pretty much anything they do.

Because Joe Manchin's unwillingness to go forward with the reconciliation bill, with the Build Back Better Bill is the reason that it is dead or on life support or depending on who you ask, you know, completely collapsed.

He's the one who had been holding out along with Senator Sinema, of course, on (inaudible) a lot of rage on the left (inaudible). And a lot of, you know, resentment in -- within the caucus, that he's been standing in the way of what they want to do.

But I think Abby's completely right on the Supreme Court, it really is a matter of time. The Lujan situation reminds them of that. And he is a relatively young man; let's not forget, for -- by the standards of the Senate where nearly half of the Senate is 65 older. And they have the majority now.

They have it by a very, very, very thin margin and there are a lot of Democrats that feel like they just need to go forward as quickly as they can on the things they do have 50 votes for before that evaporates.

KING: All right, I certainly hope by the end of the month or so we see Senator Lujan back here in Washington. We wish him the best. We wish him the best, of course.

Up next for us, Democrats don't pick a candidate for Florida governor until August. In the meantime, the Republican incumbent Ron DeSantis more than happy to run against Dr. Fauci.

[12:44:15]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:56] KING: Florida Democrats don't pick a candidate for governor until the primary in August. But, instead of waiting, Republican incumbent Ron DeSantis has handpicked a stand-in of sorts, an 81-year-old doctor who was born in Brooklyn.

CNN's Steve Contorno covers Florida politics for us. Steve, this is a rather famous 81-year-old doctor born in Brooklyn.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER IN FLORIDA: Yes, surprise John, it's Dr. Anthony Fauci. The governor lately has really intensified his attacks on the country's top infectious disease expert, talking about Fauci far more than he mentions any of his potential Democratic opponents.

Get this; he is now selling flip-flops on his website that say, Fauci Can Pound Sand. If you recall, he last year sold beer koozies that said, Don't Fauci my Florida, at a time when Florida was becoming the country's coronavirus hot spot.

And in fundraising pitches, escalating the attacks on Fauci, saying -- suggesting that Fauci should be in prison. This all comes at a time when Fauci's approval rating among Republicans is falling. But for DeSantis this is seemingly broader than just getting at -- throwing red meat at his base here in Florida.

[12:50:00]

You know, he's put half a million dollars into supplying his merchandise store online. These items sell really coast to coast. So, you know, John these flip-flops could end up on the feet of a future Republican primary voter in 2024. DeSantis may have his eye on that.

KING: I think you are correct. He's looking not only to this November but -- and beyond.

Steve, thanks so much.

Let's get to the latest COVID numbers and news now. The FDA Vaccines Advisory Committee will meet on February 15, that's two weeks from yesterday, to discuss Pfizer's request to authorize its two-dose COVID-19 vaccine for children as young as six months. Approval would make 18 million more children, 18 million children eligible for vaccination.

Let's get some perspective now from Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he's professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University.

Dr. Reiner, grateful for your presence. As I bring that -- as I bring you in I just bring up this. We already know, vaccines are already authorized for those ages 5 to 11. And only 22 percent of them are fully vaccinated. There already has been significant vaccine hesitancy among parents of those ages 5 to 11.

What is your take now as Pfizer moves forward here with some questions about their own data about efficacy?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, PROFESSOR OF SURGERY AND MEDICINE AT G.W. UNIVERSITY: I think this is a horrible idea. So, Pfizer announced in December that in their trial of children six months to 5-years of age, while the youngest kids between six months and 2-years had a really good immunologic -- immunogenic response, in terms of producing neutralizing antibodies to the very small amount of mRNA that these little kids got.

The older kids between 2-years and 5-years of age did not. And that it was an unsatisfactory response, causing them to have to refigure how to dose these kids. And rather than do a new trial with a higher dose of vaccine they decided to make that a three-dose trial and add a third dose to those kids, data which will not be ready until some time in March probably.

So now what Pfizer's going to ask parents to do is to believe that eventually when all of the data comes in that if you treat a 3 or 4- year-old with the two-dose vaccine that it will be safe. And that if you add eventually a third dose to them that it will be effective. Not good enough.

When we tell parents to vaccinate their kids we need to tell them with complete clarity that the vaccine is both safe and effective and we will not have the data to prove that it's effective. We already have parents doubting whether to give their kids vaccines.

Look, I've spoken to physicians now who have told me they will not give their kids a vaccine where there is not efficacy data and I don't blame them.

KING: No, that's going to be fascinating then to watch the advisory committee to see if there's pushback.

REINER: Right.

KING: The vaccines have gone forward pretty quickly this far. This one could, I think, hit a hiccup. Let me get a little -- you take on this sort of state of play where we are at the moment. And you see -- you do see, you know 803,000 cases a day was our high in the Omicron surge. We are down almost halfway, 46 percent down from the January peak --

REINER: Yes.

KING: -- to 431K. So you have a lot of people saying, you know, good. You take off your masks, go back to normal. I just want to remind folks that we were at 71,000 cases back late September into early October. We were at 17,000 cases a day if I went back all the way to the summertime. This is great progress. The trend lines are in the right direction.

But I saw a tweet you mentioned yesterday, yes hospitalization's coming down as well, but still 128,528 Americans in the hospital. So, you think it's smart to plan but premature to celebrate? Is that fair?

REINER: One hundred percent. So, no one wants to spike the ball on the 20-yard line and that's where we are now. No, I -- look, we can see -- we can see the goal line, but our hospitals are still packed, right. I -- you know -- I -- yesterday I spoke about a patient of mine who spent the night in the E.R. because our hospital is still filled with patients with COVID and there are no beds.

So, when we see, in communities, hospitals that are no longer overwhelmed, where there is plenty of bed capacity, when case rates drop much lower than they are now, then we should ratchet back some of these mitigation effects (ph).

But right now there is still too much virus in almost every community in the United States to simply say nothing to see, stop wearing masks, let's go about our business. We will get there. And I think if we have this discussion a month from now there will be plenty of places in the United States where you should really start cutting back on mitigation methods.

KING: Dr. Reiner, as always, grateful sir for your perspective and your insights. Appreciate it very much.

REINER: My pleasure.

KING: Just one more story before we go, the Omicron surge, obviously, taking its toll on the economy. America lost 301,000 private-sector jobs, 301,000 private-sector jobs last month in January, that according to the latest ADP Employment Report.

[12:55:00]

Those disappointing numbers came as a surprise to most economists who were expecting a modest increase. It's the first decline since December 2020, before the pandemic. Small businesses hit the hardest. The report comes just two days before the Labor Department's monthly job support.

Appreciate your time today on "Inside Politics." Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. Don't forget, you can also listen to our podcast. Download "Inside Politics" wherever you get your podcasts.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage after a quick break. Have a good afternoon.

[12:55:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)