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U.S. Officials: Russia has 70 Percent of the Military Capabilities in pace for Full-Scale Invasion; Jan 6th Committee Member Leaves Open Possibility of Pence Subpoena; Rubio Points to Hypothetical Biden versus Trump Election in 2024 as Reason VP Shouldn't have Power to Overturn Election; NJ, DE to end School Mask Mandates Starting in March. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello and welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us today.

Twin diplomatic tests France's Emmanuel Macron is at the Kremlin meeting with Russia's Vladimir Putin. Germany's Olaf Scholz gets an audience with the American President at stake Ukraine sovereignty and global stability.

Plus New Jersey and Delaware given answer to a big pandemic question when will life look more like normal? Both states say a big step is ending school mask mandates next month, and the January 6 Committee is now debating whether to subpoena Mike Pence? The Former Vice President says what Donald Trump asked him to do on January 6, was un-American.

We begin though with a pair of high stakes meetings one in Moscow and one here in Washington right now the French President Emmanuel Macron huddles with Russia's Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin then next hour an important first meeting at the White House between President Joe Biden and Germany's new Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

President Macron hopes to nudge Putin toward a diplomatic end to the Ukraine crisis. President Biden hopes to nudge Scholz to back tough sanctions if Putin instead - military options. CNN is covering this story from across the globe. Let's get straight to Nic Robertson first in Moscow, Nic the French President says he hopes to start a process of de-escalation. What more do we know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And President Putin greeted him like an old friend, if you will hear his language was pleasant. He said that he was grateful that President Macron had taken the time you know, to work on this subject, had taken the time to come to Moscow to meet him that he hoped that Macron would be able to de-escalate the tensions in Ukraine, but also bring about a better security arrangement in Europe.

But all that nice language around a big long table where they were sitting inside the Kremlin belies the fact that the message from the Kremlin today has been, they don't expect to break through these talks. They haven't got what they want in terms of their security guarantees.

And that, you know, President Macron's visit here, in many people's eyes is an opportunity for President Putin to try to appeal some, some NATO nations away from their unity. Now, Macron, for his part said, you know that he was coming to this to try to find a way to de- escalate tensions both in Ukraine and around Ukraine, the Russian troops that are building up very close to the border with Ukraine.

But you know, trying to find a bridge between these two positions today, that's not going to happen. And it's not clear precisely what Macron is bringing to the table that makes him think that he can get something out of President Putin to shift him on his so far hardliner position, John.

KING: It would be fascinating to watch. We should hear more from the two leaders later today. Nic Robertson live for us in Moscow. I appreciate it very much, Nic, thank you so much. Let's go to the White House Chief Correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan very important first is meeting today and for President Biden it's trying to get to know this new chancellor for 16 years, it was Angela Merkel. Now it is the new chancellor and some questions for President Biden.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and her absence in Europe is left quite a void when it comes to the leadership for a diplomatic crisis in a situation like what we are seeing happening right now with these questions about what exactly Russia is going to do.

And I think what you'll see from President Biden and the new German Chancellor Today is they are trying to put on a united front to show that they are united when it comes to what the response is going to be if Russia does move forward with that step?

Now that U.S. officials have assessed, they've got about 70 percent of the capability needed to mount a full scale invasion. But there are still big questions about just how United these two leaders are, are on what that response is going to look like. And a big question has been, what Germany's response would be if Russia did invade?

Because they have not been as clear as some other nations have been talking about just how forceful the response would be how punishing the sanctions would be, if Russia did move forward with this aggressive step?

Germany has been a little more low key on the world stage, frankly, when it comes to what they would do and what they would consider doing. And so that is going to be one big thing that they're talking about what exactly those sanctions would look like?

And then, of course, the other natural topic here is Nord Stream II. It is natural gas pipeline that was built between Germany and Russia. It's not in use yet, because it's still being evaluated but whether or not it's up to energy standards in Europe?

But there's been a big question about that, because you've seen just how forceful the U.S. has been saying that it could be used basically, as a coercive measure against Ukraine. And so I think that's a big question today.

And really just what stage - what step Germany is going to take here because you have seen Democrats and Republicans alike here in Washington, John, to be very critical of Germany's stance so far saying that they are missing an action when it comes to this global discussion and they are not being forceful enough and trying to deter Russia from invading Ukraine.

KING: Kaitlan Collins live at the White House another important day there I appreciate the live reporting. We'll watch this two leader's meet later today. Let's get some important perspective now from General Mark Hertling.

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KING: He's the Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Europe. General Hertling, grateful to see you on this and let me start with some fascinating new reporting by several members of our national security team that U.S. intelligence has intercepted some conversations among Russians, essentially going back up to Putin saying, hey, we're not sure you understand how bloody this would be?

Hey, we're not sure you understand how dangerous it would be? What do you make of those communications?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think they're accurate, John. I've seen intercepts like that when I had when - I was privy to intelligence reports, in terms of Russian generals talking to the Kremlin. And they certainly have concerns because what you're talking about in this operation, there has been a big deal made of the fact that there are 130,000 Russian forces surrounding Ukraine.

That isn't enough. Truthfully, from a military perspective, you're talking about a very large nation of Ukraine they have 200,000 of their own soldiers, certainly not as capable as some of the Russian troops.

But they have also 41 million people in the population Ukraine and insurgency that would break out and report say that is exactly what's going to happen in Ukraine if Russian does invade, as well as the NATO and the United States imposing sanctions and counter attacks against Russia would make this an extremely bloody war, not just for Ukrainian citizens, but also for the Russian troops invading.

I'd add to that the fact that as Mr. Putin keeps his options open, military leaders don't like that. They like to know what they're being expected to do. I can tell you that from personal experience, as opposed to just saying go in there and be amongst them, you really have to have a solid plan.

And when you have multiple courses of actions, military leaders don't like that. So they are rightfully concerned about what might happen - what might happen to Russian forces going into Ukraine?

KING: And so now we watch President Macron is there the German Chancellor is at the White House is a big question of what if most people seem to think that these will, you know, any decision will wait till after the Olympics because Putin will want to keep his alliance with Xi.

But Senators who were part of a classified briefing last week say it was quite sober - what they were told about the Russian build up a senior official telling CNN Putin has in place about 70 percent of what he would need to do the point you were just talking about a large scale invasion.

Listen to the National Security Adviser here who says Putin could do this today if he wanted to, but there's a little wiggle room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are in the window. Any day now, Russia could take military action against Ukraine, or it could be a couple of weeks from now, or Russia could choose to take the diplomatic path instead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You could read that either way, if you were in your old job. And you know there are new U.S. troops coming in to put in other NATO countries and you're waiting and watching. What's the most important thing from a military planning perspective?

HERTLING: Well, the first thing I'd tell you, John, I'd push back on anyone in the White House who's saying he has 70 percent of his troops that he needs. I don't know what that means. I don't know what he's missing. He certainly has an awful lot if it's logistics, artillery, whatever.

But you know, you could say Putin could move across the border with a squad, and it's an attack a 10 person squad. So I'm not really sure what that 70 percent figure means. And I disregard that. But from the standpoint of the U.S. side, certainly you want to see more deterrence on our side. And that's what's happening with not only the sending of forces.

An airborne brigade and a Stryker battalion, not much, certainly not much, but it becomes a signal that we are serious, and there's a lot more coming with that regard. But again, I's go back to what is NATO doing in terms of planning any kind of operations that would counter an attack?

This isn't a U.S. only force. This has got to be a NATO operation. So from a Commander of U.S. Army Europe perspective, I would be watching the intelligence very closely, looking at any kind of moves, any kind of say cyber-attacks or anything that indicates that the momentum is starting and that some triggers have been pulled not physical triggers, but remarks in terms of moving things. KING: It's an important - very important perspective to make General Hertling we'll continue this conversation in the tense state that certainly seems to be ahead of us. I appreciate your time today, sir. And this quick programming note, join Jake Tapper a little bit later today, an exclusive U.S. television interview with the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, that's on "The Lead" today right here at 4 pm Eastern only on CNN.

Up next for us the new Republican divide truth or Trump, Mike Pence picks the truth and the January 6 Committee debates demanding - issuing a subpoena demanding he cooperate.

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KING: January 6 Committee now leaving open the possibility of a subpoena for the Former Vice President Mike Pence. VP's Former Chief of Staff who was cooperating with the January 6 panel says such a subpoena would be unprecedented.

But some committee members says Pence has unique insights and information about Donald Trump's efforts to stay in power. Let's get up to Capitol Hill and CNN's Ryan Nobles for more, Ryan that would be a giant step.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And there's no doubt about that, John, and when you listen to what Marc Short had to say on Sunday, he was no doubt careful with his words.

He seemed to be waving the committee off the idea of a subpoena but he never came right out and said that he thought there was no chance that the Vice President would sit with the committee if asked.

And I think that's part of the process you see here with the Select Committee attempting to find perhaps the most easy way for Mike Pence to come forward and answer their questions and that means talking to his associates getting as much information as they possibly can without him in the room and then setting the stage for him to come and answer their questions if they get to that point.

And that would mean before time having a conversation about privilege. And what they would end would not ask about. This is what Zoe Lofgren a member of the committee had to say about approaching the vice president yesterday.

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REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): I heard Mr. Short's comment that, you know, we wouldn't want to ask him about his conversations with the president. It's not clear that that would be off the table. But clearly, the conversations that the Vice President had with Professor Eastman and others are of interest, but we may find out everything we need to know, from other sources. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So again, would they even need a subpoena? And would a subpoena be too confrontational as it relates to Vice President Mike Pence? I think that's the question that the committee is wrestling with right now.

And of course, John, what they want to do is compile as much information as possible and, and learn as much as they can about this investigation before they get in front of him because if they do get that opportunity they don't want to waste it. So they want to make sure they have all their ducks in a row before they even get to that point John.

KING: That's fascinating question. Ryan Nobles I know you'll keep us on top of it as we go forward. Thanks for that. With me now in the studio to share their reporting and their insights CNN's Melanie Zanona and Zolan Kanno-Youngs of "The New York Times" let's listen to a little bit more about Marc Short because I want to get to the Pence question.

But Marc Short, Mike Pence's Chief of Staff, Donald Trump is pressuring Mike Pence help me, help me and help me. Deny certain battleground states just say no, I won't accept your electors there Marc, Trump says not listening to very good lawyers Marc Short excuse me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FMR CHIEF OF STAFF TO VP PENCE: Unfortunately, the president had many bad advisors who were basically snake oil salesman giving him really random and novel ideas as to what the vice president could do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now Short is a high profile, great witness for the committee but the idea that Mike Pence, you know, one on one conversation with Donald Trump unique insights into him, obviously was under threat that day.

Pence gave this speech on Friday, where he said what Donald Trump asked him to do was wrong. He used the term un-American, but would he take the risk, the political risk of actually cooperating with the committee?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Right? And I think that's the big question right now. Obviously, he got some praise, people said it was pretty brave of Mike Pence to stand up and say Trump is wrong; it probably dashes his hope for 2024.

I think the real bravery though, is if he comes before this Select Committee and talks about what he knows. And it's just not clear that he is going to do that I think the committee is holding out hope that he will come, they won't have to issue a subpoena that he would come voluntarily. But at the same time, he has members of his inner circle who are cooperating and the committee might get all the information they need without actually having to speak depends.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And the committee is also borrowing some tactics from federal prosecutors as well, when it comes to these kinds of really sprawling investigations before you're going to go and take that step of issuing a subpoena.

You also want to talk to all of the people that were under these top officials that may know information about the communication of whether it is a member of Congress, whether it would be a vice president trying to collect that information so that you can actually have some information to go off of when issuing that subpoena, and you're seeing them at that stage right now.

But, you know, this also presents a choice not just for the vice president, but also for the committee when it comes to issuing a subpoena. And whether or not you're willing to go up against the norms of Congress, but also, we're hearing more about this hesitation that could be also rooted in a certain hesitation that the Republicans when they take - if they were to take over when the midterms come about, would this now come back to haunt you as well?

KING: Right. So there are a couple pieces of the Republican this, if you will, you can peel - you could peel that onion in several ways. One of the Republican arguments now is to try to delegitimize this committee, which everything we've seen so far is that they're going for the truth.

But so listen to this, this, this, there's a chance if you're a Republican, you get asked about this, and you can say Trump was wrong. The law does not allow that Mike Pence did the right thing stop. Instead, you asked Marco Rubio and he says something like this.

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): If President Trump runs for reelection, I believe he would defeat Joe Biden. And I don't want Kamala Harris to have the power as vice president to overturn that election. And I don't, that's the same thing that I concluded back in January of 2021.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: If President Trump's runs for re-election, I believe he would defeat Joe Biden. So you're essentially inviting Trump they're embracing Trump. Now, I'm sure that's not what Senator Rubio wants to do, but he just doesn't want to say Donald Trump was wrong, right?

KANNO-YOUNGS: It reminds me of throughout the Trump years when reporters would kind of chase after Republicans in the halls of Congress and ask about an inflammatory comment that hateful rhetoric of Trump one of his more polarizing policies that were issued across topics and you would get a non-answer.

Or you would get a sort of both sides answer from these members, both trying to not echo rhetoric that may be unlawful but also trying to not anger, you know, this person that still has a grip over the party at this end.

KING: And to that point, Donald Trump's handpicked chairwoman of the Republican National Committee still in place. They passed a resolution talking about January 6 and legitimate political discourse now they're trying to spin their way and explain it.

They passed a resolution centering the two Republicans on that committee; they say it was legitimate political discourse. I want to show you a little bit of video from January 6 I need to warn you the language in here is quite graphic but this is not legitimate political discourse.

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UNIDENTIFED MALE: Here in the pits just Kate, is that true? I'm here, I'm hearing reports that Pence cave. No, I'm telling you, if Pence - we're going to drag - through the streets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Again my personal apology for the language. But it is necessary in some cases, because you do have this effort to whitewash that day and now an official Republican Party effort, Republican National Party effort to whitewash that.

ZANONA: Right. Republicans are still struggling to talk about January 6, most Republicans want it to go away, they don't want to talk about it, they want to brush it on the rug, they want to talk about Biden, and they don't want to be talking about 2020.

They don't want to talk about January 6, but there is this growing faction in the Republican Party, who actually are now embracing January 6, and trying to turn Trump into the victim and the rioters into the victim and they're trying to legitimize it the RNC resolution is one example.

But there's also a number of Republicans now in the House, who say if we take back the majority, we should actually keep the Select Committee around so we can conduct our own investigations into bogus conspiracy theories. So we can spend our own narrative on January 6, and obviously they're taking cues from former President Donald Trump care.

KANNO-YOUNGS: You've seen some Republicans as well, following up that statement by trying to state a clarification in a way that well, look, if there were people that were violent, they should be investigated and prosecuted.

But the statement applied, you know, to everyone, but problem is that clarification wasn't in that statement, right. It was a broad statement and as somebody who was covering the Capitol that day, when you see videos like that language that was used, as well as the acts of violence, it's just not based in fact.

KING: That's it after the fact - effort to spin their way out of it. I guess we'll put it that way. We'll watch this - coming up for us. That's in Canada, the truckers protest growing in size and in strength, hundreds joining the demonstrations across the country. They are mad about COVID Health restrictions.

And first though, here in the United States, multiple states ending school mask mandates for kids none of those states are read.

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KING: Two Democratic Governors today making big moves to ease COVID restrictions. Next hour Governor Phil Murphy will detail a plan to end New Jersey's mask mandate in schools effective the second week of March.

And the Delaware Governor John Carney today announced two shifts. A statewide indoor mask mandate will end this coming Friday and Delaware's universal school mask mandate will end on March 31st. Now this is why these governors are taking these steps.

You see this is New Jersey. You see the big Omicron spike here coming way down hospitalizations and deaths in New Jersey also trending down. This is Delaware again; you see the big Omicron spike yellow is the cases giant drop in recent days in the cases deaths and hospitalizations in New Jersey also trending down.

So is this a movement about to come there are 15 states plus D.C. that have some form of mask mandate in place. Some of these are case dependent some of these have exemptions and caveats, but 15 states plus D.C. still have mask mandates in place is they about to fall?

Let's get some insights and expertise now from William Haseltine. He's an Infectious Disease Expert and the President of Access Health International. Grateful for your time today, sir! And, do you think the Governors of Delaware and New Jersey is right? And are we going to see much more of this now that we do see the Omicron case count dropping dramatically?

WILLIAM HASELTINE, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: First thing to say is that masks do work to prevent infections, influenza, respiratory syncytial virus, and a number of other things. So similar question of masks aren't working it's really a question of what is the risk of not wearing a mask.

And as you pointed out very nicely shown with the graphics, the risk is dropping very precipitously. It's a great thing about Omicron that it raises quickly. But the good thing about it is it falls quickly too. And so that's happening around the country if this trend continues, I think it's prudent to believe that mask mandates and I think you'll see many more states doing so.

KING: And so the question I guess is where the sweet spot? As you're making an important point I can show you the trend map right now. And it's encouraging I've been at this for more than two years. And you know, to see the green, green means cases are down.

We have 47 states now that are reporting fewer new infections this week, compared to the data from last week. Some of that - some of them are a pretty high baseline. But at least you have 47 states reporting fewer cases this week, we only have one state trending up the rest holding steady.

And you could see first of Haseltine here you see 803,000 was our Omicron peak down to 291,000 cases. That is an almost a straight line drop. But as you note, it's significant drop and it drops fast, but it's still 291,000 nearly 292,000 new infections. At what point do you say the country is out of the storm?

HASELTINE: Well, we're definitely not out of the storm. We have about 3000 people a day dying, as well. I think you have to make that judgment based on the data. Let's take a look over at the UK. They've had the same Omicron peak.

They started plummeting in terms of numbers from about 200 to about 90,000. Now they're plateauing a bit and what happened at that inflection point? They opened up, no more mask, no more controls at all.

So we have to watch the infection rates by area. One thing I've always said is that understanding the risk of COVID very much like understanding the risk of weather. You have to know what's happening in your area is there a thunderstorm? Is there a light rain?