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Justice Department Unveils Prosecution Strategy In First January 6 Case To Go To Trial; NC Elections Board Says It Has Power To Disqualify Rep. Cawthorn from Running For Reelection Over 1/6. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 09, 2022 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And now is on the Hill saying that you shouldn't call it the insurrection because it's something -- it's Democratic talking points or propaganda. I mean, it just it -- it's people who are watching their political hides and not really caring to educate their voters.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: And John, I will say this, I think that and I've made this analogy before, I think it bears worth repeating. There's a difference between winning the battle and winning the war here, you know, yes, you know, this is politically popular within the Republican Party now. But things could change, right? What do you want your legacy to be? Do you want your legacy to be this, the perpetuation of this big lie? And I think that there has to be some soul searching here to decide exactly what, you know, what these members really want for themselves in the long term.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Right. And that Trump's statement says his view is yes, yes, I am the man of grievances. And I want to continue these grievances every single day. And I want other Republicans to prove their loyalty to me, by continuing these grievances. What McConnell is trying to say is shove him to the sidelines, put this in the past and there's more as "The Washington Post" story, just breaking that tells us this is going to be with us for quite some time.

Rudy Giuliani asked Michigan prosecutor to give the voting machines to turn over the voting machines from a county in Michigan, to the Trump legal team. It's a complicated story about how the votes were counted on election night. But again, it just gets to the fact that around Donald Trump or a bunch of people determined to keep him in power to the point that they're like, Give me those voting machines. I mean, that's why Mitch McConnell says, you need to close the door on this, you need to shove it behind you let the investigations play out, but do not buy into this.

KUCINICH: But we should we should mention that Mitch McConnell did not support the creation of the January 6th Committee.

KING: Right.

KUCINICH: But this is why their work is so important. And you're right to mention that they -- that their scope was before the insurrection, how this big lie, the foundation, the foundation was laid. And that's why their work continues and the American public deserves to know what happened.

MCKEND: I mean, grabbing for straws. Every time we hear about another one of these episodes, and I'm sure that we'll hear about many more. It just looks more pathetic by the day. That's why Leader McConnell wants nothing to do with it.

KING: And this prosecutor actually understands the rule of law. He said -- we don't have the magical power to just demand things as prosecutors you need probable cause. That prosecutor understands the rule of law.

KUCINICH: Such as Rudy Giuliani.

KING: Yes, the people -- Rudy -- should, thank you.

KUCINICH: Should.

KING: Proper word, should. Once did, once did, one did.

Up next for us, bipartisan negotiators in Congress over Russian sanctions stalling out.

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[12:37:10]

KING: Some important new reporting now on bipartisan negotiations up on Capitol Hill over Russia sanctions. Those negotiations have stalled, lawmakers stuck on two big issues, one what to do about that Nord Stream 2 pipeline. Two, how to deal with Republican demands to put more sanctions in place against Russia even before Vladimir Putin makes his decision about whether to invade Ukraine.

Let's get up to our congressional correspondent, Lauren Fox with more. Lauren?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this morning, Menendez telling me he's leading these negotiations for the Democrats that they have reached an inflection point in these talks. They have been having good faith negotiations with Republicans in the Senate trying to find a way to both combine preemptive sanctions on Russia, as well as post invasion sanctions on Russia if the country decides to invade Ukraine. We are learning that those negotiations are starting to stall out and essentially decisions need to be made soon whether or not they are going to proceed.

You know, one aide telling me that how long can we be on the one yard line? If you remember, back at the end of January, both Risch and Menendez joined CNN in a joint interview, saying that they were very close to finding a resolution that they were optimistic, and I am told that those negotiations may continue. But they are so close to needing to make a decision that these may stall out in the end, John?

KING: Lauren Fox appreciate that update. We know you'll stay on top of it. Thanks very much.

Let's move on to another big story. Now this month the first January 6th defendant goes to trial. His name is Guy Reffitt. And this week, the Justice Department prosecutors are giving us a window into their courtroom strategy. Prosecutors say they plan to call 13 witnesses including Reffitt's own children. They also plan to put Capitol police officers on the stand. Those officers will testify to a fierce clash with Reffitt and how they tried to stop him from advancing on the Capitol by shooting pepper balls and chemical spray. Our crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz has more details. She's with us.

So let's walk through this fascinating stuff from the court find. Let's just start with the defendant. Who is Guy Reffitt? And we can show our viewers he's a member of a former military group in Texas, pleaded not guilty to the charges, allegedly brought a gun to the Capitol, and clashed with police. Walk us through a little bit more about who he is.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right this is the long awaited first trial, John, and this story for Guy Reffitt, the prosecutors are putting forth, this is not just a family drama, as you mentioned his children are set to testify. But it is a situation where this has ripped apart a family, January 6th ripped them apart after Reffitt returned to Texas. His son turned him into the FBI then fled the family's home. His daughter then was brought back in court. She's 16 years old to testify against her father as prosecutors were trying to keep him in jail. They ultimately have kept him in jail.

The family reacted really verbally in court whenever that ruling came down. He's been waiting this trial for a year now. And we really are going to see very many aggressive steps by prosecutors not just with bringing these children of him to testify but with some other things they're doing the trial as well.

[12:40:09]

KING: Many of the other defendants have made plea agreement so you don't get to see all of the evidence. You hear some incorporate junk to see it. You've gone through the files in this case, the Justice Department plans to use messages, calls, location data from Reffitt's phone, surveillance video, video from cameras strapped to his own helmet during the riot, radio clips from the police department, zip tie, flex cuffs, firearm, ammunition discovered. Again, so they have built a it seems like a pretty methodical case.

POLANTZ: That's right. And this really isn't just about the defendant whenever we see this trial take place. This is like an entire effort by the Justice Department to recreate the mob scene in court to show to the jury just how destructive this January 6th insurrection was. So these -- there are going to be videos we've seen before. But we also are seeing that there's going to be radio calls that are being played in court. And we are going to be reliving this even if there aren't video for us to watch every single moment of what's happening in court, we are going to be able to hear and see hopefully afterwards what's taking place, what's being shown to the jury. KING: And the first trial will help us, we assume, understand what will come next for other defendants who stand trial, how the justice department presents evidence, how they decide on how many witnesses in which witnesses they believe are the most powerful testimony. In this case, the witness list includes Capitol Police and FBI agents, Secret Service agent, a Senate staffer, members of the Texas Three Percenters, that right wing group, and that you mentioned, Reffitt's own children. That's remarkable.

POLANTZ: That's right. And there really is one person in this that is going to be really interesting to hear from we haven't heard from before, a person that drove with Reffitt to D.C., had conversations with him, that person was given immunity by the Justice Department meaning they weren't charged. They're not going to be able to be charged for what they said for what they say on the witness stand. And so that is another aggressive step by the Justice Department to bring someone in at trial, put them on the stand, get tested, get testimony and show the jury exactly what they've learned through this year-long investigation.

KING: Fascinating trial about to begin later this month in federal court. Katelyn appreciate the great reporting. Thanks so much. And ahead for us, the North Carolina election board says it has the authority to block Madison Cawthorn from running again. The Congressman's critics say he helps stoke the insurrection and that he should be disqualified.

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[12:46:55]

KING: Madison Cawthorn is a Donald Trump favorite and he represents the reliably red congressional district in North Carolina. So beating him at the ballot box is unlikely. But critics furious at what they see as the Congressman's open support for the January 6th insurrection are trying to end his congressional career by having him disqualified from the ballot. The North Carolina elections board has not ruled on the fundamentals of the request. But in a new court filing, the election board does assert that it has the power quote, to police which candidates should or should not be disqualified per Section 3 of the 14th amendment.

Eva McKend of CNN, Jackie Kucinich of the Daily Beast back with me. So the challenge here is if you can't beat him at the ballot box, try to get him disqualified. And the 14th amendment we can show you on the screen, everyone should have their pocket constitution out. No person shall be a senator or representative in Congress, or hold any office who are previously taking an oath. And the key part here is shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. And so the Congressman's critics are saying, he gives aid and comfort, he should be disqualified.

MCKEND: Yes, this is an interesting legal question. We'll have to see how this plays out. Is it powerful enough that he was elected? Should that stand alone and the voters, you know, have their voices heard? And should that be enough to keep him in his seat? We'll see what happens. I know that our revolution, the Bernie aligned progressive organization, very involved in this fight.

I think, though, if this legal battle doesn't go very far, it could have the unintended consequence of making him even more popular with the base like, look, look, these folks are trying to cancel me out of Congress. And he has become a powerful name in the party. My understanding is that there are Republican hopefuls coming to him having meals with him seeking his endorsement in their primaries.

KING: He is a high profile as sort of a younger provocative member of what you'd say the Trump wing, the provocative wing of the party. This is, this is one of the things his critics takes issue with this. This is the Congressman on that day, January 6th, 2021.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MADISON CAWTHORN (R-NC): Hold your representatives accountable, make sure that they stood up for election integrity and make your voices heard. My friends, I want you to chat with me so loud that the cowards on Washington, D.C. that I served with can hear you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is part of the problem having this conversation is he's calling cowards of people who support math and democracy in the Constitution. And he's saying, you know, stand up for election integrity? No, he's saying stand up for Donald Trump.

KUCINICH: Right. But does that and but the question is, does that mean he is no longer qualified to run in North Carolina and if in fact, this goes forward? And let's say he is disqualified, what precedent does that set? Where will that be -- wherever they try to use that, word does that try to be used in other places. So it is really it's a fascinating motion that's going in North Carolina and I know we're all going to be watching it just to see, you know, both what Eva said and whether it has any repercussions going forward.

[12:50:01]

KING: Bruce Fein is an attorney for those who are trying to get him disqualified. And this is his take this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON FEIN, CO-LEAD COUNSEL ON CHALLENGE AGAINST REP. CAWTHORN: We think that the evidence points very strongly to Cawthorn being disqualified and that the panel that conducts the hearing will find that as well as the state board of elections and if Cawthorn chooses to appeal to the court system that they would agree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Ron Fein, I'm might say Ron Fein there. The issue that's hard here is, you know, maybe there is a constitutional issue here. Maybe there is on the substance an issue here, but as you noted, because of his identity in the Trump wing of the party, because of the liberal organizations clearly defined going after him. It's hard to separate sort of, is there a legal issue here or is this just about politics?

MCKEND: Exactly, you know, his supporters will say, look, you know, Democrats will not stop, they will use every tool in the toolbox, every mechanism they can to erase our perspective, right? It's not about insurrection, right, which, you know, there are legitimate concerns, it becomes a rebuke of their ideology as a whole. And that is, that is why this is such a tricky territory.

KING: And so let's just listen a little bit more because he is a rising star in that wing of the party, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert tend to get more attention, but listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAWTHORN: We don't need to abolish the January 6th Committee, we need to use it, start investigating what really happened, how many FBI agents were in that crowd, who was the one that actually first breached the doors?

I just want the truth to come out because I believe we have some very high ranking, very vile and evil and unpatriotic officials in our federal government and as part of the deep state.

The left is trying to block America first warriors from appearing on the ballot in 2024. And their path to victory begins or ends with me. They're after the American people. But MAGA fighters in Congress are in the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It's just, it's vivid proof there. It's the next generation of what Trump does. Conspiracy theories, lies, this is not just about Donald Trump, there is a younger generation that does the same thing.

KUCINICH: Absolutely. I mean, the -- I am the avatar for them trying to throw out your will. But I will say it is -- but it's a huge deal to throw out what the voters choose. And that is what is at stake here when you're talking about disqualifying him from running.

KING: Right, except in extreme circumstances, voters should get to make these decisions. The question is, is this an extreme circumstance? We'll watch it. Thanks for coming.

Ahead for us, a moment like this and other damning photo emerges. So if you know who, the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, yes, another party blunder.

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[12:57:16]

KING: Topping our Political Radar today, yes, another party gate photo. Boris Johnson once again under fire for another new photo shows the U.K. Prime Minister with other people in an office setting, you see it right there with a bottle of champagne. The Prime Minister asked about the photo in the House of Commons today. He responded get this by saying the question was quote completely an error.

A major diplomatic test for Vice President Kamala Harris, White House official confirming she will be traveling to the Munich Security Conference this month. The huddle with allies on the Ukraine crisis is expected to deliver remarks affirming the U.S. commitment to NATO and other allies. Russia today says it plans to skip that Summit. President Biden will host Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee at the White House tomorrow. The subject of course, to talk about potential Supreme Court nominees, the White House says the President now reviewing binders full of information about his possible choices.

And officials say the President is still on track to make that pick by the end of the month. CNN has learned administration officials have started reaching out to potential candidates. So we know the shortlist of possible nominees includes the D.C. Circuit Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, California Supreme Court Justice Leondra Kruger, and South Carolina U.S. District Court Judge J. Michelle Childs.

Dr. Joseph Ladapo, one step closer now to being Florida Surgeon General that despite views way out of the public health mainstream. Dr. Ladapo won't say COVID vaccines work and he has pushed hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment, a state Senate panel back then for the job last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us if you personally have been vaccinated or boosted?

DR. JOSEPH LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL APPOINTEE: When people ask you about your medical history that is private. It is still private. Florida law happens to also protect disclosure of private medical information. And I choose to honor that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The full Florida Senate still needs to sign off on that nomination.

The Georgia Democratic gubernatorial hopeful Stacey Abrams now says it was quote a mistake to pose maskless with a group of schoolchildren last week. Abrams telling CNN last night that she removed her mask while reading because she in the group were socially distance but she then said COVID protocols matter and she should have her mask back on before the photo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY ABRAMS (D-GA), GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: I took a picture and that was a mistake. Protocols matter and protecting our kids is the most important thing and anything that can be perceived as undermining that is a mistake and I apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Democratic Representative Joyce Beatty says she accepts an apology from Republican colleague Hal Rogers. Rogers admits his conduct was unacceptable. Beatty says she encountered Rogers in the subway system at the Capitol, asked him to put on a mask and then he poked her in the back and said kiss my ass.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): I'm a member of Congress, like you, and I'm a woman. You will not disrespect me. I will bring you up in front of ethics and everything else. You picked the wrong woman for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Congresswoman Beatty telling CNN this morning she wanted a public apology and she will now move on.

[13:00:07]

Thanks for joining us on IP today. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Don't forget, you can also listen to our podcast downside Inside Politics -- download Inside Politics wherever you get your podcasts. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.