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Inside Politics

Biden Warns of "Swift and Severe" Costs If Russia Invades; CNN Poll: Frustrated Voters Give Biden 41 Percent Approval Rating; Democratic Governors Race to Relax Mask Mandates; Week of Headlines Spotlight Trump's Handling of Records; DHS Warns Trucker Convoy Could Disrupt Super Bowl. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired February 13, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(MUSIC)

[08:00:21]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice-over): An urgent warning. Get out.

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Any American in Ukraine should leave as soon as possible.

PHILLIP: A Russian invasion could be imminent. The U.S. says Moscow will pay a steep price.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a pivotal moment. If Russia chooses the path of aggression, it will face massive consequences.

PHILLIP: Plus, no end in sight as inflation hits another 40-year high, the president is paying a political price.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This is a direct result of liberal policy choices.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know food prices are up and we're working to bring them down. I understand.

PHILLIP: And a COVID turning point. Blue state governors say it's time to relax mask rules. The CDC says, not quite.

DR. ROCHELL WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Our hospitalizations are still high, our death rates are still high. We are not there yet.

PHILLIP: INSIDE POLITICS, the biggest stories sourced by the best reporters, now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP (on camera): Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Abby Phillip. Thanks for being here this morning.

The diplomatic standoff between Russia, Europe and the United States may be coming to a head. President Biden warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia on Saturday of swift and severe costs if he launches an invasion into Ukraine, but at the same time, the United States and other nations are ramping up their calls for their citizens to get out of Ukraine.

Right now, there are more than 100,000 Russian troops along Ukraine's border and more manpower and firepower is arriving daily. The U.S. is saying that Russia could invade Ukraine at any time, even before the end of the Olympics hosted by Russia's ally, China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: We are in the window when a Russian invasion could start at any time if President Putin so decides. This crisis, a crisis, again, created by Russia's actions in massing forces along Ukraine's borders. That there are two paths forward and it is ultimately up to President Putin to decide which path to follow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: As tensions rise, Ukraine's president, though, is calling for calm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE: We are on these borders, it's our borders, it's our territory. We have different information and now the best friend for enemies that is panic in our country, and all this information that helps only for panic doesn't help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining me now is senior -- CNN senior international correspondent Sam Kiley, he is on the ground in Kharkiv, Ukraine.

So, Sam, you know, the whole situation for weeks now has been this disconnect between Washington and Kyiv on what is actually the trajectory here for conflict. What are you seeing on the ground?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think from the Ukrainian perspective, the trajectory to conflict is probably the same, but it's the messaging that really matters to them. So in your intro there, Abby, you played that clip from President Zelensky speaking yesterday during Ukrainian military maneuvers mirroring some of the naval maneuvers that the Russians were conducting in the Azov and Black Sea saying panicking plays into the hands of the enemy and here in Kharkiv I'm about 30 miles from the Russian border, on the other side of the Russian border reportedly -- we have evidence of this from satellite imagery, a very massive force is building up of Russian armor with artillery, huge numbers of infantry, all a potential threat to this city of 1.5 million people, with a 75 percent Russian-speaking majority.

And yet people are out and about enjoying a bit of sunshine, mid- winter sunshine here in the center of Kharkiv. You wouldn't know that this town was in fear or even in danger of an imminent invasion. That may be because there isn't a great deal that the Ukrainians can do about it. They do have a much reinforced army, but the army has only been getting lethal aid from the United Kingdom and United States relatively recently and that short range shoulder launched anti- missiles the training teams from the U.S. and UK are being pulled out, that's a total of from two countries of only about 260 men and women, part of those training teams, and all of this coming as embassies are closing down or moving their operations to the far west in the country, Abby.

[08:05:02]

And many nations now, scores of them really, are saying to their citizens to get out of Ukraine.

So it's a real conundrum for the Ukrainian authorities because they don't want to see their economy collapse under them as a result of the presence of Russian troops, but, of course, that very presence does rather imply they may be moved across the border and begin an invasion of some kind at any time, Abby.

PHILLIP: It is so stark, the scene of, you know, a calm wintry day right behind you and the warnings of really imminent war coming out of Western capital.

Sam Kiley in Ukraine, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

And joining us now at the table to share their reporting and their insights is Margaret Talev of "Axios", Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times," Zolan Kanno-Youngs of the "New York Times" as well, and "The New Yorker's" Susan Glasser.

So, Susan, I just want to start with you, the president and Vladimir Putin spoke over the weekend, spoke yesterday, a lengthy call over an hour. Did it move the ball one way or another?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: No. To be blunt, Abby, look, we are not in a situation where anyone sees any signs of de- escalation. In fact, you know, what experts who have observed this military buildup are saying is that the Russians are now soon within a position where they will have the entire force assembled that they might use to go over the line, but I think the report from the ground underscores in many ways that this is already such a destabilizing thing that's happened.

PHILLIP: Right.

GLASSER: You know, it's not like --

PHILLIP: A lot of the damage has been done.

GLASSER: Absolutely. You show up on your neighbor's border with a force of 130,000 or more military and, you know, that is inherently a destabilizing act. I don't think we're going to be going back so some status quo.

PHILLIP: Is it a question, though, of when not if Putin invades and perhaps takes Kyiv?

GLASSER: Certainly, it is within his capability to do so. There's been conflicting intelligence reports that we've heard from, you know, people as to whether a decision -- a go/no go decision has been made in the Russian system. That really is up to Vladimir Putin himself.

One thing I would say is it's very important to understand the role, almost emotional role that Ukraine plays for Vladimir Putin and it has. First of all, as a warning indicator there have been two Western- oriented sort of Democratic revolution pollutions, 2004 and 2013-'14, both of which caused a huge, huge freak out on the part of Vladimir Putin.

You know, what does it mean for stability in the region? He believes that Ukraine is not really a legitimate independent state. That's very hard to negotiate with.

PHILLIP: Yeah, absolutely. He wants to restore an old world order in a lot of ways.

But, Zolan, something happened over the last couple of days in Washington, and perhaps in other European capitals. Something changed. The warnings ramped up. They really changed their tone and tenor about when this thing could happen.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. I mean, you've seen that at least for the administration, even if there's a question over just how effective it will be and as Susan was saying I do think there is a question over how effective that strategy will be. You're seeing the administration try to release information out of a sort of strategy of deterrents, right? Let's continue to declassify whatever information we have and try to put it out there to at least get it to the public and try to sway Vladimir Putin from any potential action.

Whether or not that actually works at this point, especially as -- even though that has ramped up in terms of those releases, saw you them say on Friday that really, I mean, the situation in terms of him lining up forces, that has been relatively the same for the past, you know, weeks or so. You're just seeing the U.S. try to declassify information out of a strategy of deterrents.

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I counted three preemptive warnings of false flags, three separate times when we have put out intelligence saying what they're actually going to do, they're going to stage an incident when the Ukrainians appear to be to the provocateurs, which is a classic Putin technique. Three times we've said this is what's going to happen. There's definitely a sort of information warfare game going on here.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It does seem like in the U.S. president Biden is messaging to two separate audiences, one is Putin and the other is the American people, like he's clearly haunted and still maneuvering from the lessons of the Afghanistan withdrawal. They're completely separate incidents, but the clear take away is clear messaging, preparing Americans for what's to come, holding allies close together so that nobody is surprised, and warning preemptively if you are an American in Ukraine, get out. We are not coming in for you.

And he has a difficult message because while Americans want to see strength from their president, they also do not want to see American troops engage in anything that looks like another war.

[08:10:07]

And so, aligning the U.S. forces in the NATO countries, but not Ukraine, like this is a clear balancing act, but Afghanistan is guiding so much of the domestic message.

PHILLIP: I do want to play quick that bite from Biden about what would happen if -- you know, there's no scenario according to Biden in which the U.S. gets engaged in any ground fighting in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: What scenarios would you put American troops to rescue and get Americans out?

BIDEN: There's not. That's a world war. When Americans and Russia start shooting at one another, we're in a very different world than we've ever been in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That's pretty sobering.

GLASSER: Absolutely. And I can't underscore enough just how sobering this moment is because it's not just about politics, it's not just about learning the lessons of the botched Afghan withdrawal. Joe Biden is also haunted by the mistakes and the way in which the United States and the West were surprised by Russia in 2014. They invaded Ukraine.

PHILLIP: Crimea, yeah.

GLASSER: This was the first such illegal annexation of territory since the end of World War II. There was a surprise, a false flag operation. You're seeing them -- they undertook a very, I think, calculated study of what were the mistakes made at that time.

PHILLIP: Here is "The Wall Street Journal" on that very point, actually, praising the editorial board, praising Biden. They say, Biden has surprised and discombobulated Vladimir Putin with his un- Obama-like response to renewed tensions over Ukraine by sending military supplies to Ukraine, deploying troops to Eastern Europe, preparing sanctions the Biden administration has orchestrated a set of signals that even Mr. Putin can't misinterpret.

In some quarters, he's getting praise for overall the big picture of how this is being handled.

MARTIN: Even from "The Journal", right. We will see --

PHILLIP: Not always Joe Biden --

MARTIN: Terribly friendly. We will see if those columns are being printed a month or two from now.

PHILLIP: Right.

MARTIN: I spoke to one White House official about this and at the risk of offering a sort of crass take on the politics of this all, they're concerned about gas prices.

Look, this is already a huge problem domestically. The average American cares a heck of a lot more about what they're paying to fill their car than they do candidly the status of Ukraine. You think about March, April, May, going into the spring and summer, gas prices are already expensive. If that spikes because of this episode, that's just one more rock in Joe Biden's backpack that he is lugging around and it's getting heavier and heavier.

TALEV: The cyber and the unknown --

PHILLIP: There are some real practical consequences for domestic audiences, yeah.

KANNO-YOUNGS: And that's just politics as well. There is as well a national security ramifications here as well.

PHILLIP: They have been warning that Russia could try to launch attacks, almost at the same time that they are launching a physical attack into Ukraine.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Specifically when it comes to the homeland, though, talking about cyber and information and disinformation mostly.

PHILLIP: Exactly. All right. Let's stick around, guys. Thank you, Susan, for joining us this morning.

And coming up next for us, are Democrats turning against President Biden? We will have some brand-new CNN polling for you this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: All right. There's not a lot of great news for President Biden in our new CNN polling. Voters are angry about inflation, they're frustrated by the pandemic and they are ready to blame the Democrats.

This chart tells the story of Biden's first year as president. His disapproval rating is up by 17 points since taking office and there has been some good news this month on COVID and on the economy which has added a record number of jobs, but last week, inflation hit yet another 40-year high.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Inflation is up. It's up. And coming from a family when the price of gas went up you felt it in a household. You knew what it was like. It matters. But the fact is that if we are able to do the things I'm talking about here, it will bring down the costs for average families. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And we've got brand-new data out this morning about the future of the Democratic ticket. Fewer than half of Democrats want President Biden to be their nominee in 2024.

And CNN's Lauren Fox joins the conversation.

This is not great. I mean, it's not great for Biden from a political sense but also from an economic sense which is driving these numbers. President Biden ran on promising to return people to a sense of normalcy, here we are more than two years, I guess three years depending on how you look at it into the pandemic and 75 percent of Americans are saying they are totally burnt out. So what is the plan now for Biden to deal with this?

KANNO-YOUNGS: I think the connection you made in asking that question between the pandemic and the economy. There is a link between those two concerns, right? The president did run on the central theme of his presidency was overcoming the pandemic, returning to a sense of normalcy. Right now, he has to combat the perception that people have and actually it's not just a perception, a real thing of these rises prices, the daily issues that people are confronted with each and every day.

You know, the White House strategy for months has seemed to be from a messaging standpoint to assure voters and to assure Americans that, look, the passage of the sweeping social policy and climate provisions bill will be a solution to the economic concerns around the country.

It is really tough to convince folks that legislation that is still stuck in congressional gridlock will be the solution to a problem that impacts them day by day. So --

PHILLIP: And, meanwhile, they are stuck in this sense of malaise. "The Times" has had some really interesting focus groups, one of them this week from, you know, Dem-leaning voters.

[08:20:02]

And this is just a sample of some of the comments from some of these voters all across the country, different racial and ethnic backgrounds.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have three kids, the smallest one just turned one. Diapers, everybody is saying it, are getting expensive. Food, they eat a lot of food.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gas and electric just went through the roof here in San Diego. The bills are 35 percent more this month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go shopping, you see $98 up there, you get home and see what you get, you have nothing. It's like you don't have nothing. (END AUDIO CLIP)

MARTIN: This is the stuff of nightmares for it candidates on the ticket this fall. If you are a Democrat and you hear these verbatim of a focus group, this is quality of life stuff that transcends race, region, everything in this country and they're going to take it out most likely if they vote at all on the party that's in power.

This is the nature, Abby, of the first midterm of new presidents is it's a referendum typically on their presidency so far and if people are not happy about their quality of life and the direction of the country, they typically vote for the opposition.

It's not clear, Zolan, to your point how you fix that with fairly arcane legislation, at least in the eyes of most Americans in this time window.

PHILLIP: They're banking on literally just putting money in people's pockets to deal with some of the price increases. We've been talking about Build Back Better, maybe it's billed back never at the end of the day, but what are the real prospects that this thing can actually go somewhere?

Manchin keeps saying, it's almost like he keeps saying I keep telling you guys I don't want to do this. Are they hoping against hope here?

TALEV: Yeah, inflation has definitely made it worse. When you see Manchin going after the Fed as well as Biden, you know, it's a lot more complicated than they hoped it would be.

Their hope has been to pick off bits, a bit here, a bit there, what Manchin can live with and let him drive the negotiations. The latest inflation numbers and this polling data makes it harder.

A couple of trends that I'm seeing in these polls, one, it's really striking how different the white non-college educated assessment of Biden is from voters of color inside the Democratic Party and that really is going to make a big difference to his messaging.

And another is that his approval has dropped precipitously for his handling of COVID. We knew he was having trouble with the economy but it's the handling of COVID numbers dropping 9 points in this last CNN poll from the last time this was measured that are giving him that double complication. Like he wanted to go into that State of the Union Address saying everyone can be vaccinated. He wanted to be able to run on having brought COVID under control and now he can't message on the economy or COVID.

PHILLIP: I mean, Lauren, you are on the hill every day. I mean, will Democrats give this president a win?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been what they're searching for. You started to see a shift in the Democratic strategy, instead of going after Build Back Better and constantly talking about something that they can't convince Manchin to get to yes on, he has made that clear time and time again, they're trying to pick off smaller pieces of legislation.

You saw them this week pass monumental legislation by voice vote to deal with the ways that companies can candle sexual harassment cases in the workplace. It's a small thing maybe compared to Build Back Better but it's something that they can turn around and say, look, even a 50/50 Senate can work.

PHILLIP: Something is better than nothing, but they still have to deal with the pocketbook issues for a lot of Americans. I do want to just mention, I mean, you were mentioning the Fed, right? This is a real question for the administration. If they do really tackle inflation, a lot of the evidence out there suggests that could just lead to a recession.

Some of the things that could happen if interest rates go up. Everything gets more expensive, your mortgages, your credit card rates, it's harder to borrow money to start a business, it's -- the federal government is paying more money on their debt. I mean, this could be a really potentially, you know, double-edged sword for Biden as they try to fight inflation but could be ushering an economic slowdown.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right ahead of the midterms, too.

PHILLIP: Yeah.

KANNO-YOUNGS: These are, again, issues that are impacting the people that you want to convince at this point, the voters you want to convince that you have made progress in getting the country back to a sense of normalcy. It's not going to help if prices continue to go up.

Also, worth noting and it doesn't exactly help the administration as well that, look, they for months have touted as well the packages they have passed, right? Bipartisan infrastructure, most people are going to see the impact of that, probably not immediately, also the American Rescue Plan, child tax credit, for example, doesn't exactly help when, like there were polls that showed that a lot of people that did get those checks did not associate it immediately with President Joe Biden helped me get these checks.

FOX: And they are out of money from that program.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right.

MARTIN: And the risk, real fast, is when you see these numbers, Democrats start making their own weather, they start breaking from the president.

[08:25:02]

TALEV: We're seeing that.

PHILLIP: Which we will discuss when we come back.

MARTIN: Mask mandates. One issue. PHILLIP: Coming up -- coming up next, we'll get J. Mart on the politics of COVID and the changing politics for Democrats racing to keep up with public opinion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:29:43]

PHILLIP: The COVID case rate in America is plunging and so is people's tolerance for pandemic rules, especially in the classroom. So in the past few days we've seen Democratic governors suddenly racing to end some of their indoor mask mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): We're not declaring victory, but we are stating affirmatively that we can responsibly live with this thing.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): Given the declining cases, given declining hospitalizations that is why we feel comfortable to lift this in effect.

GOVERNOR STEVE SISOLAK (D-NV): Everyone gets -- wants to get back to their normal life. Whatever normal is. I mean, it's been two years.

So I think the time has come and I'm confident that we have analyzed the appropriate data and we have made the right decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So JMart, as you said --

JONATHAN MARTIN, "NEW YORK TIMES": What data? I want to know what they mean?

PHILLIP: Democrats are --

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: I love the way you put it, making their own weather on this.

But here's -- listen to Joe Biden who is responding to some of these changes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I committed that would follow the science, the science as put forward by the CDC and the -- and the federal people, and I think it's probably premature, but it's -- you know, it's a tough call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: I mean, can you imagine being Steve Sisolak? You're facing a really tough reelection, perhaps the hardest in the country of any incumbent Democratic governor. Your state is entirely reliant on the hospitality industry, that is your lifeblood and your president says you just made a premature decision on the public health.

He didn't mean Sisolak, but it's frustrating for these governors because they are looking at two sets of data, right. One is public health. Omicron is coming down, there is obviously a justification for relaxing these mandates.

But they're also looking at polling and focus groups. Yes, America, there is gambling in the casino, your governors do take into account politics at times.

They are seeing, Abby, as you put it a real frustration by Americans who their kids are in masks, they're ready for it to end and I think they're responding to it.

PHILLIP: This is some of that polling, CNN polling conducted recently showing just what's going on in terms of people who are saying, ok, it's time to learn to live with this thing. Overall it's 51 percent, but if you look deeper into the numbers, 72 percent among Republicans, that's to be expected, people with children 64 percent, Independents 54 percent.

And it's people who identify as Democrats who are at the bottom here 27 percent. But a lot of these swing state Democrats are looking at these numbers and they're saying we have to get ahead of this.

But is this a double-edged sword? Are they falling into a trap here in which they are, quote, unquote, "not following the science yet and maybe the science will catch up, but it seems like maybe they're not following the science.

FOX: I've got to tell you that I had a very hard time getting straight answers out of Democrats on the Hill this week as to whether or not they thought it was time to lift mask mandates because in part they're listening to their governors, in part they're listening to their constituents, in part they're looking over their shoulder as to whether or not they have a reelection or not. So many of them were like we should follow the science.

Ok. Well, your governor is saying one thing, the president and the CDC are saying another. Which one do you think is the science? It was very hard to nail people down on that question because it's such a hard position for Democrats after saying for years masks keep us safe, and they do keep people safe and we should highlight that, but at what point do you say omicron is not enough of a threat to people's lives anymore, that we are going to continue to live with this.

KANNO-YOUNGS: There's also a risk that you run too with, you know, what was it, last July when we had a moment at the White House where they were declaring a summer of independence.

Look, you know, these -- clearly restrictions should not be affirmation that we are not in a pandemic at this point. We very much still are.

But when you're these Democrats you have to gauge obviously assessing kind of the feeling of your base and of your residents in each of these districts, but also not wanting to run an early mission accomplished moment.

MARTIN: That's it, yes.

MARGARET TALEV, AXIOS MANAGING EDITOR: I think the difference is that -- yes, 100 percent delta was proof of that --

MARTIN: They're bitten from that.

TALEV: This time -- last summer when that happened many people were vaccinated, not everybody was vaccinated. In the time since everybody who wants to get the vaccine can get the vaccine. There are some people for whom the vaccine won't work that well if you are immunocompromised. There are some people --

PHILLIP: And boosters are available to them and probably will become increasingly available.

TALEV: Yes.

PHILLIP: And there was this massive wave of infection over the winter, which I think is contributing to this, but there's also something else going on here.

Americans seem to be losing confidence in the science. The approval rating according to Pew for public health officials, their faith in public health officials has fallen from 79 percent to 50 percent.

TALEV: It's no surprise why. It's two years into the pandemic. Our most recent polling the Axios/Ipsos coronavirus poll shows actually a total four-way split. How do you think -- what do you think should happen now to deal with the pandemic?

[08:34:44]

TALEV: It's literally about a quarter that are like throw out all the mandates, take off your masks. Mostly do that, but save a little bit. Well, save more of it and relax a little. And then there's still like a quarter of the people who are like keep everything in place, do more.

And so America is completely paralyzed and divided. A lot of people, Independent and swing voters in purple states want to move on, but it's not unanimous.

PHILLIP: Yes. It's now. I do want to say, though, that some Democrats are also falling into this problem. Here is Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin in a photo that has been sent around by Republicans everywhere not wearing a mask, everyone behind her is wearing a mask.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

PHILLIP: With the State of the Union coming up, here is her message to President Biden and to Democrats. She says "There are a bunch of us that are pushing the White House to really use the State of the Union as a sort of declaration of the new phase."

MARTIN: Right.

And the White House hears that and they get triggered as the kids say because it reminds them of July 4th last year.

FOX: Yes.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.

MARTIN: Because a lot of people in this White House obviously Afghanistan and the fall of Kabul was a huge line of demarcation. For a lot of folks in this White House they trace their challenges to July when Biden gave something akin to a mission accomplished speech in the White House and then guess what, delta came back roaring, right.

And so they see that kind of rhetoric, Abby, from Slotkin and they think we've seen this movie before. We don't want to get too premature now. Which is why Biden, you saw that clip earlier, doesn't want to quite do that yet. Because I'm telling you, the pressure from Democrats in the weeks to come is going to be so immense on this.

PHILLIP: I mean if they have a State of the Union that is locked down, that is sparsely attended, I mean, there are optics to that, too.

MARTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely.

PHILLIP: So, it's unclear. I mean, maybe damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

MARTIN: There's something to that.

PHILLIP: Yes.

Well, coming up next for us, there's new reporting that the former president flushed documents that he was required to preserve down the toilet. Could that finally explain this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms. People are flushing toilets ten times, 15 times as opposed to once. They end up using more water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:37:01]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: In his four years in office, former president Trump seemed to relish sending the ethical laws and norms governing the presidency down the drain and now we are finding out it was quite literally.

Trump allegedly flushed papers down the White House toilets often clogging them. And the January 6th committee is also saying that there are gaps in his call logs during the insurrection. And if that weren't enough, Trump brought 15 boxes of documents and items including some marked "classified" and "top secret" back to Mar-A-Lago. The National Archives officials have since recovered them.

Trump's apparent mishandling of classified documents is, it seems, exactly what Republicans and especially candidate Trump accused Hillary Clinton of doing back in 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: People who have nothing to hide don't bleach -- nobody has ever heard of it -- don't bleach their emails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So these two pieces of information that we've learned, the flushing of the papers down the toilet, the missing logs which could be attributed to a number of different things, including the former president using other people's phones to make calls, what's the significance of all of this for the January 6th committee?

TALEV: Well, for the committee they're trying to piece together a timeline of what happened on that day and who the former president was in communication with. And so right now they're looking at calls that they knew took place and looking at the official White House logs and the reporting tells us there are a lot of gaps between those two.

And so now it's a matter of figuring out what do they not know about and how are they going to get that? One obvious way is by trying to get the phone records and documents of other people. The big question is are they going after -- will they be going after Trump's own personal cellphone records as well.

But it just -- it goes to the point that the committee's work -- you know, the committee can only build information based on the information that they have and they're going to have a heck of a time getting the information.

PHILLIP: They know based on other interviews what they should have that they don't have, which has helped them determine that there were these gaps, but there is -- there could be so much more.

And this -- the reporting about the mishandling of classified information you would think that it would set off the hypocrisy bells in the Republican Party. But here is the president's former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, explaining it away.

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO DONALD TRUMP: They will ignore Nancy Pelosi ripping something up on national TV behind the president, those documents I can tell you we couldn't find those, either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Yes, Nancy Pelosi ripping up a piece of paper behind the president. I do want to -- I mean, that sort of behind Trump no matter what mentality is the pervading view in the Republican Party right now.

JMart, you've got some reporting out today about how people like Mitch McConnell are leading this effort to put up some kind of opposition to this blind following of the former president.

MARTIN: Yes, I have a story today -- there it is right there on the screen -- at the times about this effort loosely-led by McConnell but with other people including actually George W. Bush who has sort of been deputized coming out of retirement to try to recruit a handful of senate candidates like Doug Ducey in Arizona and in New Hampshire the Governor Sununu who took a pass already because I think there is a feeling in the kind of pre-Trump GOP that this battle against Trumpism is not just going to be fought in '24.

[08:44:51]

MARTIN: but it also has to be fought in the midterms because if the kind of people winning nominations for their party this year are going to be sort of Trump errand boys then that's going to make it a heck of a lot easier for Trump to get the nomination in '24.

And just the opposite if it shows this year that Trump can't deliver wins in GOP primaries for his preferred candidates that's going to raise real questions about the capital he has left in this party.

KANNO-YOUNGS: McConnell and, you know, Bush might be coming out and condemning this. But I do feel like especially, you probably felt this in the halls of Congress it's almost like a flashback to two years ago where the president would issue a tweet or post something and you would have kind of the double answer from many members of the GOP, particularly in the House.

Well, look, you know, we're condemning this, but also you kind of don't want to shy away and come off as criticizing.

MARTIN: The house especially, yes.

KANNO-YOUNGS: The house especially.

PHILLIP: In your excellent piece, Susan Collins says nobody should be afraid of Donald Trump. But here is one person who is afraid of Donald Trump apparently.

This is a before -- I will put it this way, it's a before and after of Congresswoman Nancy Mace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-CA): I was attacked and threatened before the vote on January 6th just because I wasn't, quote, "fighting for the president". I wasn't fighting for the president because I wasn't going to participate in the big lie.

I was one of his earliest supporters, I actually worked for the campaign in 2016. I worked in seven different states across the country to help get him elected. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: She is outside of Trump Tower because Trump endorsed her primary opponent.

FOX: Yes, I mean I think that there is such a tough line for Republicans to walk, especially if you feel like you need Trump for your base to turn out. I think one of the most fascinating races to watch is really, you know, how John Thune who is a member of leadership has started to handle this. He is kind of trying to walk that line but has a hard time really endorsing some of the ideas about the stolen election that Trump talks about all of the time.

You see him in the halls basically just really on that tightrope, trying to figure out a way to not alienate people in South Dakota, but also be in a place where he knows or hopes the future of the Republican Party is on the McConnell side of things and not on the Trump side.

PHILLIP: Well, we've got new CNN polling out this morning about whether Republican voters even want Donald Trump to be at the top of their ticket and just 50 percent say that it should be Trump and 49 percent say it should be someone else.

I mean we were talking earlier about a similar kind of trend for Biden. More Democrats maybe wanting to see someone else, but both parties having a problem with the people potentially at the top of the ticket.

TALEV: It's really interesting because the numbers look similar but if you cut into them a little bit they are for different reasons, right.

PHILLIP: Yes.

TALEV: A much larger share of Republicans don't want Donald Trump to be the nominee because they don't want Donald Trump to be the president again. On the Democratic side those Democratic voters who don't want to see Biden again are, number one, afraid he could not get reelected and number two, afraid that he's too old.

And so there are different forces at hand. The Democrats have no idea who they want, if not Biden. No one has actually -- there's no one who is wanted more than Biden, it's not like there is a Plan B.

I don't think there is not a lot of clarity on the Republican side, either.

MARTIN: Well half the party does not want the former president to run again which does raise questions about just how firm his grip is on the GOP. That's easier said, though, for us here than it is for somebody like Nancy Mace whose clip you showed who is staring down a primary, a Trump-endorsed opponent and all she hears from his base back in South Carolina is they still love MAGA nation, they love Trump.

PHILLIP: Yes. It's firm enough in red districts. MARTIN: Sure.

PHILLIP: Yes, people like Nancy Mace are scared.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: With the primary, right.

PHILLIP: -- about the situation.

Coming up next for us, though, could Canada's trucker protests be headed to the U.S. for the Super Bowl tonight?

[08:48:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: The Department of Homeland Security is warning that the trucker-inspired protests that have roiled Canada for weeks may be coming to Los Angeles to disrupt today's Super Bowl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): There are people that are trying to divide this country. I don't think that this is about vaccinations anymore. I think there are people that are trying to disrupt us on both sides of the bridge, and I am asking everybody to just take a serious look about what the consequences are of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Almost 90 percent of truckers in Canada are, in fact, vaccinated. But the protests have widened to include others opposed to mandates and to include fringe elements of the alt right.

And we have now a situation in which here in the United States, as the prospect looms of the truckers coming here, you've got Republicans egging them on. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Americans and Canadians obviously and people around the world -- we've had it, they've had it. They're so sick of the double standard, so sick of the mandates. What we want is what God gave us, freedom.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Civil disobedience is a time-honored tradition in our country from slavery to civil rights, to you name it. Peaceful protests, clog things up, make people think about the mandates.

I hope the truckers do come to America. I hope they clog up cities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So exacerbate the inflation problems, supply chain issues. It's a win-win. FOX: Well -- and you hear Rand Paul say there, as you said earlier in

that clip, it would be great if they came to U.S. cities.

I mean it would be a massive headache, not to mention the fact it drives up inflation, it's an issue for supply chains.

(CROSSTALK)

[08:54:56]

PHILLIP: Well, it means livelihood.

FOX: Yes.

PHILLIP: Like people who are getting paid to make things.

FOX: Exactly or people trying to get to work. I mean it exasperates all of the issues that the Biden administration has which is perhaps maybe why Republicans find this to be an opportune time to egg people on.

But it's a massive, massive problem and gamble really for the country.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Absolutely. I mean massive impact on trade as well as security, too. I mean the more law enforcement resources you're putting to that, goes away from something else.

But through these Republicans -- this provide, you know, a way just to remind voters as well people we're still in a pandemic. You're still under pandemic response.

PHILLIP: Last word. Last word.

MARTIN: A reminder of our travel times, civil disobedience and protests and direct action is good when it's happening for my team. And it's bad when the other side is doing it, right.

What a country.

PHILLIP: You've got the last word.

TALEV: Michigan and Kentucky, two big places to watch for repercussions of this --

PHILLIP: Absolutely. It's not just going to be a Democratic problem if we have these economic consequences.

Thank you all for being with us this morning. And thank you for joining us.

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Don't forget, you can also listen to our pod cast, download "Inside Politics" wherever you get your podcast. Scan that QR code at the bottom of your screen.

And coming up next here on CNN "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash. Jake's guests include national security adviser Jake Sullivan and Maryland's Republican governor Larry Hogan.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. Have a great rest of your day.

[08:56:20]

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