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Inside Politics

Russia Shifts Troops, Military Equipment Near Ukraine Border; White House "Tiger Team" Planning Response To Putin Invasion, Including Conducting Tabletop Exercises; Putin Meet German Chancellor In Moscow; Some Ukrainian Agencies Hit By Possible Cyberattack; Accounting Firm Cuts Ties With Trump Organization, Says 10 Years Of Financial Statements Are Unreliable; Sources: Giuliani May Be Willing To Testify About Election Fraud Claims To Jan 6 Cmte. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 15, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello, and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy news day with us. A flurry of activity troops, helicopters and machinery, all moving around Ukraine in just the past 24 hours. Vladimir Putin says, he's willing to talk. But A source tells CNN a Russian attack, this week is more likely than not.

Plus, Donald Trump's accounting firm cuts ties with Donald Trump. The firm now says it can no longer vouch for a decade's worth of financial statements. Those documents central to a pair of investigations into the Trump family business. And Sandy Hook families with a $73 million settlement against a gun manufacturer. The victims now have access to thousands of internal company documents they hope could help other families in the future.

We begin though in the Ukraine and with the Putin riddle. Just this morning, important diplomatic back and forth. The Secretary of State Tony Blinken, speaking with his Russian counterpart, the foreign minister Sergey Lavrov. President Biden conferencing with the French President Emmanuel Macron. And Russia's Putin holding a meeting with Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

How the world reads the Russian leaders, intent is key to whether you view the last 24 hours as a window for diplomacy. Or as paper promises from Putin that still end with an invasion. Russia says some of its military units will now return to their basis once exercises in the region finish. Some, including world financial markets interpret this as a tone shift moment. But the NATO secretary general says seeing is believing and that so far, there is no proof of any significant de- escalation.

In fact, an American defense official telling CNN other Russian units, now creeping closer to the Ukrainian border. And you can see it here satellite imagery spotted at least 60 Russian helicopters moving into a previously empty airbase in Crimea. CNN is covering every development of this crisis from around the globe. And we started Ukraine with our Senior National Security correspondent Alex Marquardt. Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: John, it does remain to be seen how significant a move this is by Russian troops, whether it's simply symbolic or whether it's really the beginning of any sort of Russian de-escalation. We don't know how many troops are involved. We don't know exactly where they're leaving from the Kremlin themselves are downplaying it saying, that well when troops are finished with exercises that they go back to their bases.

But we are still seeing, as you noted evidence of Russia continuing to build up. Take for example, where we are, we are in Mariupol, which is on the Sea of Azov. Satellite imagery shows us that there are a new set of around 10 strategic bombers, fighter jets that are just across the waterway in Russia, they could really get here in no time if Russia were to launch an invasion.

And then over in Crimea, which you just mentioned, the Peninsula that Russia annexed back in 2014. Satellite imagery shows that over the course of the past few days that they have added some 60 helicopters at that airfield that has not been used in almost 20 years.

Now, at the same time, the Russian Ministry of Defense are saying, that they're pulling back troops and weaponry from Crimea. And they say that troops, tanks and artillery have gotten on trains and headed home. So, we are getting mixed messages. But it is indeed a good sign that that Russia is drawing down at least some of its troops.

At the same time, John, diplomatic conversations are ongoing. We have seen the German chancellor, who is in Moscow today. He says that, you know, he sees positive signs that things can be worked on. President Putin was asked directly whether Russia wants war. He said, of course not. That's why we are putting forward proposals.

At the same time, he says western deterrence is a threat to Russia. And he has long said, of course, that NATO creeping closer moving eastwards is a threat to Russia. The German chancellor says, you know, we are making a damned effort to stop war in Europe. So, we are seeing some positive signs both on the diplomatic and on the military fronts, John, but so much remains to be seen, many questions remain.

KING: Alex Marquardt, grateful you're there with our team of reporters as we watch this play out, appreciate. Let's get straight to the White House down to our chief correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, the president working the phones today. And also, you have some new reporting on how the White House essentially tried to run through scenario planning to get to this key moment.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, in order to be prepared. And President Biden is basically spent almost every day for the last several days on the phone with other world leaders, talking about what they think is going to happen. Today, it was the French president, yesterday it was the British prime minister.

And this comes as we're learning about the efforts that they have been taking internally for months now to try to be prepared if Russia does decide to invade, which of course, we know, we were hearing from officials and despite the skepticism of what we're hearing today, we were hearing from officials that they believed an attack could potentially happen this week.

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But we have learned from the national security council that since last November when they first became aware that in recognize that an attack could happen that Russia couldn't go into Ukraine, they kind of formed this so-called Tiger Team of officials across all of government involving the state department, the Pentagon, treasury, the energy department, intel officials as well, to basically try to game out what a U.S. response would look like if Russia did invade Ukraine and if they did see that happen.

Because remember a lot of the officials that we're dealing with now or officials that were here in 2014, the last time Russia invaded and illegally annexed Crimea. And so, they've been taking these steps to try to be prepared for an attack if one happened this time. They cautioned that they don't know exactly what the U.S. response would look like. They don't know what an attack would look like, if Russia did carry one out, but it does speak to the level of what this White House is revealing about what they're doing to try to stave off an attack.

KING: Stave off an attack. Kaitlan Collins, important reporter from the White House. Appreciate that. Let's get some important perspective now. Somebody who knows Vladimir Putin quite well, the New York staff writer, Masha Gessen. Masha, grateful for the time today. So, you hear these conflicting signals if you will. You heard Alex Marquardt, Putin today saying, of course, not, I don't want war.

The Russians saying, they will pull back some troops after the exercises, but the NATO secretary general says he sees no proof of significant de-escalation. We have satellite images, helicopters here, bombers there, what do you see at this moment?

MASHA GESSEN, STAFF WRITER. THE NEW YORK: Well, we're not going to know until we know, but I have never been as worried as I am today. And partly because Vladimir Putin always likes to have the element of surprise. Part of what Washington has been trying to do is take that away from him, by sort of always trying to stay a step ahead of the game and saying, this is what he's going to do, this is when he's going to do it.

I think that's been really interesting and smart diplomacy. And I'm afraid that Putin saying, we're pulling back is actually a sign that he is going to take by surprise, but of course, that is like putting ideas of the brain, and some very old-style Soviet criminology. That is just awful. And we're talking about living people in Ukraine, who could start having bombs falling on their houses any day.

KING: Right. A critical point, the humanity, sometimes the situation on the ground gets lost as we follow the leaders, if you will. But you're right about how Putin loves attention. And he has an hour on the phone with President Biden in recent days, the French president at the table, the German chancellor, coming calling.

Putin at this moment is trying to be what Putin likes, to prove that he's the kingmaker if you will. But does that alone? Does the fact that he's willing to meet with the other leaders, speak with the other leaders, tell you anything about intent? Again, he says diplomatic solutions, but he seems to be saying on his terms.

GESSEN: Well, his main demand that he received guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO has not been met. He's also today, in his press conference, after his meeting with Olaf Scholz, talked about the very real possibility of a war in Europe. This is the first time in these weeks that he has brought up the NATO bombing campaign in Yugoslavia in 1999, which is for Putin very much the reference point, right?

Don't tell me that this is impossible. Don't tell me that I don't have the right to break international law and invade a neighboring country. When I remember that in 1999, NATO coalition led by the United States without U.N. Security Council sanction bombed Yugoslavia. I can do anything I want. And that's his message today.

KING: This is his message. Masha Gessen, standby, we're going to move to some breaking news. Some new trouble signs out of Ukraine. Ukraine's government says its defense ministry website and the country's largest commercial banks are right now under an apparent cyberattack. Let's bring in Brigadier General, Mark Kimmitt. We're going to Alex Marquardt, first. Alex?

MARQUARDT: John, yes. We're seeing, we're hearing, we're getting word that there has been a cyberattack on at least two significant websites, the Ministry of Defense, their website is down as well as the website of one of Ukraine's largest commercial banks.

This is we're being told what appears to be what's known as a DDoS attack. That's a denial-of-service attack. That's essentially when attackers make it impossible for folks like you and me to access those websites for the time being. And of course, we're just learning this. So, a lot still to come out.

For the time being, it appears to be the forward-facing, public facing, you know, parts of this bank and of the Ministry of Defense. We don't know whether there's any damage beyond that, for example, whether there would be any military communications, for example, that would have been affected right now. It means that people cannot access at least these two websites.

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John, this is obviously something we're keeping a very close eye on. You know when we talk about the potential for Russia to cause mischief to invade Ukraine, it's not just from a military standpoint. We talk about hybrid warfare, that means that Russia can attack on a number of different fronts militarily, and in terms of disinformation we've seen all kinds of disinformation, both in Russia in order to get the Russian people on their side and for a possible invasion of Ukraine, to convince people here in Ukraine that something like that would be justified.

And then in terms of cyber alarm, if Russia really wanted to do some damage, they could, they've shown in the past back in 2015, that they were able to take down Ukrainian power. We have no sense at this point, who is behind this. It could be a talented, criminal, private hacker just looking to cause mischief, it could be something much larger than that.

But this is obviously something that we're going to keep a very close eye on, because everyone - all kinds of, you know, government officials, military officials, intelligence officials, all kinds of experts suspect that if there were to be a Russian invasion of Ukraine, that there would be a significant cyber component that comes along with it. John?

KING: Alex, keep reporting. Come back to us if you get additional information. Let's go back to Mark Kimmitt, The New Yorker staff writer. For some perspective here and again, this is part of the Putin riddle, could be something that has nothing to do with the tensions.

But many people know, Putin does this on a daily basis could be a nuisance attack. Here I am. I'm reminding you, I'm here. If you were forgetting that, or some have thought preinvasion, premilitary action, there would be cyber-attacks Masha to try to get the Ukrainians rattled.

GESSEN: Well, this is exactly what we've been hearing from the Ukrainians. They've been saying, look, you're barking up the wrong tree. When you're talking about a full-scale invasion, and a takeover of Ukraine. What we're afraid of is hybrid warfare is something that will start with cyberattacks, and then involve military encroachment.

The Ukrainian thanks are saying that Russians don't actually have enough troops, the mast at the border for full scale invasion. But what they're concerned with is hybrid warfare. So, it's entirely possible that what we're seeing today is actually the beginning.

KING: And let's continue the conversation. Retired Brigadier General, Mark Kimmitt, is with us as well. General Mark Kimmitt, this is part of the Putin playbook. We are still reporting. We're not sure exactly what is happening here and who was responsible for it. But we do know that this has been a big part of the Russian playbook, the Putin playbook in recent years here in the United States, around the world, around our elections. And now Ukraine's defense ministry, major commercial banks reporting cyberattacks. What does that tell you?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET): Well, it tells me, as a reporter from Ukraine said, this may just be a parting shot in his way out the door, or it may be the first shot. He also said correctly, this is part of the Russian playbook. I'm more concerned that if the cyberattack happened to the defense ministry, did it affect the command-and-control outlets and links to the troops on the ground? If this is just an attack of the Ministry of Defense building in its office workers? That's one thing. If this is interrupting the communications that the defense ministry has with its tactical units, that's completely different thing.

KING: So, walk through that, the varying degrees, if you will. If Putin is just trying to poke, he can do one thing. If Putin is probing to see, can he disrupted, as you mentioned command-and-control? That could be sort of page one with page two to follow on a military perspective, right?

KIMMITT: That's absolutely right. I would expect to see some other things happening along with that troop movements, logistics movements, if he in fact, is serious about coming across the border. But as your reporter Marquardt said, it could also just be a clever hacker. I think what I've been most concerned about is if this is somehow connected to the separatists, who would be more than happy to invite the Russians in, and they may be provoking an incident to do exactly that.

KING: So, help me understand finally, as we tried to get more information about this. What is happening right now at NATO cyber centers, at the Pentagon, at United States intelligence agencies who are know these things could be coming and attracting them? What are they looking for?

KIMMITT: Well, they're looking for the same thing. You can bet that they've got their cyber defenses up right now. Although, cyber defenses inside those military and tactical organizations are usually pretty high at any time. But I would expect at this stage concentrated in Ukraine, that this is focused on Ukraine, and any thoughts that what we're seeing with these troop movements heading back may just be illusory. And this could very well be one of the tactics of Putin that this is a bluff in order to get ready for the real thing, but I think we're going to find this isn't really the real thing.

KING: General Kimmitt, grateful for your perspective, Masha Gessen, as well. We'll stay on top of this story and bringing new developments as we get them. Up next for us, though Donald Trump's accountants, cut him off, saying they can no longer vouch for his financial statements.

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KING: Donald Trump's longtime accounting firm dumped him. In a carefully worded statement, the accounting firm Azhar said, a decade of Trump Organization financial statements are no longer reliable. The firm also advised the Trump Organization to tell its banks and its insurance companies not to use those statements anymore. Let's get some insights and expertise from Harry Litman. He's a former U.S. Attorney.

So, Harry, I have the statement from Azhar when they essentially ended their relationship with Donald Trump and the Trump Organization. I'm not going to read it all, but I'm going to read a little bit. We've come to the conclusion based, in part, upon filings by the New York attorney general on our own investigation and information received from internal and external sources. We've concluded the various financial statements, as a whole, contain material discrepancies. They are walking away from their own work, not just Donald Trump. What does that tell you from a legal perspective?

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HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: It tells me, they got some bum information from him and they're calling him out on it, but it's not necessarily a bankruptcy inducing event. Look, the Trump Organization already lives with two wheels off the cliff, and it has a playbook here. It'll go into a defensive crouch and sue everybody and claim, you know, that it's been exonerated, as it already has done.

The bigger implications here, John, I think are for the James investigation. She is doing a fraud investigation civilly and criminally with the DA and what this somebody made these false statements, Trump or his family, and don't forget Allen Weisselberg.

And they're the people who might be in the immediate, hotter water as a result of what masers is now saying. You gave us bad information, maybe there's no material discrepancy, but whoever made that bad information is looking at more serious evidence of fraud.

KING: And you mentioned the Trump Organization will claim exoneration. I always say they sometimes play opposites. It's not funny in this context because of the state. But their statement said, this confirmation effectively renders the investigations by the district attorney and the attorney general moot. It's just the opposite, isn't it? If the longtime accounting firm is now cooperating, or at least, you know, sharing some information with both of those investigations, not moot.

LITMAN: 100 percent. A mere flesh wound is what they're trying to say. But look, the accounting firm says it's an unwinnable conflict. That means they have information that vitiates their duty of confidentiality, loyalty to him. That's obviously information of false statements by him. That's what they're saying. You gave us false information. So, what came out was false. But don't blame us. And yes, we're going to - we may have to cooperate now.

KING: Harry Litman, appreciate the important insights. Let's bring the conversation in studio, with me to share the reporting and their insights. Jackie Kucinich to The Daily Beast, Seung Min Kim, The Washington Post, and Tia Mitchell, the Atlanta Journal Constitution. So, there's a long list but just the Manhattan D.A. probe of Trump finance as the Atlanta district attorney looking into election stuff, D.C. attorney general, U.S. attorney.

This is this adds, I mean, this is an existing, it's not a new investigation. But the fact that Donald Trump's accounting firm is saying, never mind. The 10 years of financial statements, financial statements used to get loans when you file your taxes, not good news. JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF. THE DAILY BEAST: We're in the middle of tax season, I think it said that they hadn't finished Melania Trump and Donald Trump's taxes yet, so that that alone. They're in the middle of that. But sure, this could have implications, this could have implications going down the line where their ability to secure loans in the future, because now they have to have a whole new accounting firm.

But I just wanted to go back. It's not only the outside investigations, there's also been investigations that have requested masers files or records in the House of Representatives. That has been a huge fight over whether or not he violated the emoluments clause, when it comes to the old post office building as he was securing that for his hotel. So, this accounting firm has been a periphery slash central figure in this whole investigation for some time now.

KING: And one of the big questions is, Letitia James, the Attorney General in New York has a civil investigation. But she wants depositions from Donald Trump. She wants depositions from several two of his children who are big players, or senior officials in the Trump Organization. This would seem not a lawyer, but this would seem to help her case. Your own accounting firm now says, we were giving bad information. You are the senior executives of the company we need to talk.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And the Trump Organization, including the children of the former president have said this as a politically motivated investigation. So that's the case that they've been making. But it's also another reminder that as much of the focus is on the January 6 commission here in Washington, that there are so many other investigations that could be ultimately more damaging to Trump.

Now, we remember about Trump, the thing that he hated to disclose was information about his personal finances. We never saw his tax returns. He broke the tradition of presidents and presidential candidates of a willingly releasing their financial documents. But this is really serious because, you know, as Letitia James has alleged, these documents show how Trump was allegedly misleading about his personal finances. So, surely. So, this investigation more than anything could be really revelatory about the former president.

KING: So, it seems an escalation there. Then you mentioned the January 6 investigation. I just want to bring in this. January 6 committee still expects Giuliani to cooperate fully despite rescheduled appearance, no interview date set. There's some reporting that perhaps he will talk about how he was pursuing what he's going to say I'm sure are tips about election fraud out there, but not as conversations with the former president. How is this going to resolve itself or will it?

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Tia Mitchell: You know, I think Giuliani is going to, you know, I think it's interesting that he's cooperating and he's not joining other Trump allies to fight the subpoenas, fight the request from the January 6 committee. So, my gut still tells me if he cooperates, there will be hard limits on it. The committee probably won't get nearly as much as they'd like to get from him, but anything from Giuliani to the January 6 committee, I think is something that could help the investigation and I would guess that former President Trump wouldn't be too happy about it.

KING: Of any cooperation at all. We'll see, test the limits of, I guess as we go forward. Everybody standby. We'll come back. More on this hour's major breaking international news, reports of cyberattacks against the Ukrainian defense ministry, and major commercial banks.

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