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EU: Russian Forces "Bombing And Shelling Everything" In Ukraine; Russian Forces Attack, Now "Occupy" Ukrainian Nuclear Plant; Ukrainian Nuclear Plant Operator: Managers Working "At Gunpoint"; U.S. Ambassador To U.N: Putin Needs To "Stop This Madness Now"; Ukraine: Russia Focused On Encircling Kyiv, Weakening Resistance; Ukraine, Russia Agree To Humanitarian Corridors For Civilians; NATO Not Considering No-Fly Zone Over Ukraine; Blinken: "This May Not Be Over Soon," Must Build On Efforts. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 04, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing this very sober news day with us. More urgent meetings today, but also gruesome and disturbing new images of Russia's expanding onslaught in Ukraine. The United Nations Security Council is in emergency session right now. Top NATO diplomats are meeting in Brussels.

A fire and a firefight and a nuclear plant, now tops the list of Russian actions drawing harsh global rebuke, but on this day nine of war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin simply is not listening, and we are getting a fuller picture of his very destructive march. This the burned out remains an apartment building in Kyiv suburb, Borodyanka.

In Hatne, also just outside Kyiv, smoking ash choke the city. The destruction grows every hour as Russia bombards the capital from all sides. Kharkiv, Ukraine second largest city now a shell of itself. It is hard, hard to find a window that is not shattered.

In the south signs the Ukrainian frontline is breaking. Mariupol remains under Ukrainian control for now, but the city is quite literally on fire. Also, Russian forces now occupy the nuclear power plant in Enerhodar after a fierce firefight. Its workers now operating the facility at gunpoint.

The allies meeting in Brussels today, say a NATO enforce no-fly zone over Ukraine is off the table. That even though NATO's chief now says, there is no doubt Russia is using illegal weapons of war, cluster box. Let's get the very latest from our CNN correspondent on the ground and we start on the southern coast of Ukraine, where Russian forces continue to rack up gain. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Odessa. Nick, what's the latest?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. Most troubling news still out of those apologia nuclear power plants. Now, as you mentioned earlier, it appears that Ukrainian workers went back in this morning about 6am and are now working at gunpoint. Now, the Russian military control that specific facility. Still, I think the world is trying to get their head around the idea of a Russian military assault against a nuclear power plant. It appears that the reactors there still retain their integrity at this point. It was external buildings that were damaged the international atomic energy authority saying that they believe that there isn't any imminent threat, but they have described this, their chief speaking to CNN as "a close call."

So, perhaps this episode may be behind us in terms of the immediate nuclear risk, but it gives you a terrifying view, frankly, on the motivation, the recklessness of this Russian force. And how indiscriminately is prepared to function at risk, frankly, to itself, a nuclear accident would be as hazardous to Russia as the rest of Europe.

But here where I am John, across the southern coast. You mentioned Mariupol, that remains besieged under bombardment, that's far to the east from where I'm standing on the Sea of Azov move more westwards towards me. Bad news out of the town of Kherson, the first city really to fall to the Russian military.

We're hearing reports from residents there have essentially a kind of fake movie being created. They say in Ukrainian officials back this up by humanitarian aid trucks coming into the town. They are due to give out aid, it seems essentially fixing a humanitarian crisis of Russia's own military making, and the thought at the time (CROSS TALK)

KING: Linda Thomas-Greenfield, let's go straight to the United Nations. My apologies to Nick Paton Walsh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Damage, particularly to water intake piping, and mitigate a further deterioration of the situation if needed. Nuclear facilities cannot become part of this conflict. Reliable electricity is vital for the nuclear facility. As our backup diesel generators and fuel, safe transit corridors must be maintained.

Russia must halt any further use of force that might put at further risk all 15 operable reactors across Ukraine or interfere with Ukraine's ability to maintain the safety and the security of its 37 nuclear facilities and their surrounding populations.

The United States remains highly concerned that Russian military forces controlling the Chernobyl site have not permitted operators there to have a shift change since last week. This is highly irresponsible behavior and causes grave concerns for continued safe operation of both sites. And we call on all countries to support IAEA Director General Grossi, in his efforts to find arrangements going forward to ensure nuclear safety and prevent a nuclear catastrophe in Ukraine.

[12:05:00]

Over the past nine days, we have witnessed the devastating impact of President Putin's war of choice on the Ukrainian people. Yesterday, the U.N. reported that Russia's invasion had turned half a million children into refugees. Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians and sacrifice thousand more Russian soldiers lives in the process.

Russia is destroying critical infrastructure, which is denying people drinking water to stay alive and gas to keep people from freezing to death in the middle of winter. The humanitarian impact of this destruction will be significant. 141 nations across the world have called loudly and clearly on President Putin to stop this brutal, unjustified unprovoked attack.

Not only has he not listened, we've just witnessed a dangerous new escalation that represents a dire threat to all of Europe in the world. To my Russian counterparts, this council needs answers. We need to hear you say, this won't happen again, as our U.K. colleague just stated.

We call on you to withdraw your troops and weapon tree from Ukraine. We call on you to respect Ukraine's borders, its people and the U.N. charter. We call on you to respect your own troops enough not to send them into an unjust war, or on a suicide mission against a nuclear power plant. We call on Russia to abide by his international law obligations.

The world demands that Russia abide by international humanitarian law, which prohibits intentionally targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure and allow humanitarian agencies full and secure access to people in need of aid. The United States and our partners have called for a briefing this Monday on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine.

We support the urgent work by humanitarian organizations on humanitarian pause to allow for safe, for safe passage in the delivery of humanitarian supplies. President Putin must stop this humanitarian catastrophe by ending this war and ceasing these unconscionable attacks against the people of Ukraine. Mr. Putin must stop this madness. And he must stop it now.

Cooler heads must prevail. Russian forces are now 20 miles and closing from Ukraine's second largest nuclear facility. So, this imminent danger continues. We narrowly avoided a disaster last night. The international community must be unanimous in demanding Russia's forces stop their dangerous assault. And as I've said before, the people of Ukraine are counting on us, and we must not let them down. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thank the representative of the United States for her statement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: You're listening there to Linda Thomas-Greenfield. She is the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, sharply condemning the Russian invasion but specifically talking about her concerns. Last night a firefight here at the nuclear plants Zaporizhzhya. A firefight there last night, that plant now under Russian control. The ambassador also voicing concerns that the other nuclear sites spread throughout Ukraine could become dangerous pawns in this war.

Before we went to the United Nations, we were talking to our Nick Paton Walsh. As you can see the state of play, he is in Odessa. You see the Russian troop gains have been along the south here, trying to get access to these key shipping ports, cut off supply lines, choke shipping into and out of Ukraine. Let's get back to Nick Paton Walsh. Nick, you're in Odessa. I show the areas to your east. Many of them have come under Russian control and they're in Odessa. That is the concern that you would be next.

WALSH: Certainly, pressure building on this city. Yes. And we saw down at the coast ourselves. Locals desperately putting sand from vacation beaches into bags to fortify barricades here. Before we stopped talking last, John. I was talking about Kherson to the east here and how we've seen over today after two days of Russian occupation looting, damage to pretty much everything there, humanitarian catastrophe as one resident said to me, that we saw today humanitarian aid trucks that appear to have turned up in the central square and Ukrainian officials are warning.

[12:10:00]

Basically, we're going to see a kind of movie of Russia giving out aid to fix the shortages and problems that its war has created. Now, we've also seen local shared with us videos of a convoy coming into house on overnight of civilian vehicles, the concern amongst locals being that those new arrivals may in fact be part of civilian presence to bolster the Russian military occupation.

Now, we've seen this playbook before, John, in Crimea 2014, Donbass 2015. You create a kind of fake internal movement of dissent to bolster the Russian military presence. In the past there, it was the dissent before the military presence, now the military have kicked in and they're using this sort of civilian playbook to justify it in retrospect.

That seems to be what's beginning in Kherson, make alive to east west, that's been under significant attack over the past 24 hours. Unclear quite with a balance of who has the upper hand there lies now, but here in Odessa deeply on edge. Yesterday an Estonian cargo ship was sunk off the coast. Ukrainian official saying that may have been shelled by Russia in a bid to use it as kind of a civilian shield for their amphibious landing.

So, that's what people are worried about any potential hour here in this the third largest city. The ports, that's what it's all about, control of trade, maritime access for all of Ukraine here a vital part of the leverage that Moscow wants to have over the entire country, John?

KING: Critical reporting and context. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much. Again, Nick is down here in Odessa. You see the Russian gains along the southern coast. It makes the (Inaudible) Odessa as the Russia will try to take full control of the ports and cities here. Also attacks in recent days, recent hours in Kyiv and the suburbs around it. It is in that region. We find CNN's Alex Marquardt, up near the capital Alex, what's the latest there?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we do continue to hear blasts and explosions around the Ukrainian capital. The Ukrainian ministry of defense saying today, that now just over a week into the Russian invasion, that the top priority for Russia's forces remains, taking the capital that remains encircling the capital and moving in and breaking through Ukrainian resistance.

Now, the ministry of defense striking a bit of an optimistic tone, saying that they have managed to keep the Russian forces at bay that they are now around 40 miles or 60 kilometers to the west of Kyiv. That's the bulk of the Russian forces, they say. They also believe that the Russian operational reserves they say have been depleted and that the Russians are going to be calling up more forces to come in.

John, of course, as you know, we've been keeping a close eye on that convoy that is north of Kyiv, 40 miles long still. We know that the Ukrainians have managed to inflict some damage there. We know that the Russians have also been suffering from logistical issues, that they have been - having trouble getting food and fuel to the front.

At the same time, the Pentagon believes that they are regrouping and reassessing that it is still way too early to say that they are not making progress. The Pentagon believes that at present 92 percent of the forces that had been pre-positioned before this invasion are now in Ukraine, and that they still have the vast, vast majority they say, of their combat potential power, still at their will. So, there's still a lot of damage that Russia can inflict.

And the fear now, John, is because they're having trouble in circling the city and others, that they may try to carry out more direct strikes on the cities. We may see an uptick in the aerial bombardment of Kyiv and other cities. So, that is what the Ukrainian capital is bracing for. We have seen significant damage around Kyiv.

In just the past few days, it notably in the suburb of Borodyanka, which is northwest of Kyiv about 30 miles, entire apartment blocks that have been destroyed this, while the Kremlin continues to say that they're not targeting civilian residential areas, civilian infrastructure, but civilians certainly are bearing the brunt of this Russian invasion, John?

KING: Right. Those pictures certainly tell a different story, they call the lies of the Kremlin. Alex Marquardt, appreciate the live reporting there. Those with us, just moments ago heard the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Linda Thomas-Greenfield, condemning Russian activities, especially condemning the firefight here, and the fire at the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant.

Let's get some important perspective. Now, let's bring in Richard Cupitt. He's the Senior Fellow and Director of Partnerships in Proliferation Prevention at the Stimson Center here in Washington. Rick, grateful for your time today. I'm going to bring up this just the scene of this plant last night. Let's focus first on the plant last night and then on the broader threat Ambassador Greenfield just talked about. This is the nuclear facility last night at Zaporizhzhya. The fire was over here, near a training center. But you see the line of the reactors here, spent nuclear fuel back here. She called did a narrowly averted disaster. Is that the right call?

[12:15:00]

RICHARD CUPITT, SENIOR FELLOW & DIR. STIMSON PARTNERSHIPS IN PROLIFERATION PREVENTION: I think she made a really strong statement and quite accurate. My understanding is that the director general of the IAEA (Ph) - I'm not sure, if you can hear me, but a Director General Grossi, I think, reflected that he was told by the Russians that it was an accident. And I'm, you know, X, that's not a kind of accident that should happen.

KING: Not this kind of accidents should happen. You understand sort of the ratings and the rankings that, you know, most of the world wouldn't pay attention to. Now, Ukraine is a battlefield. What are your concerns? Not only here at Zaporizhzhya, but if you pull out to the other nuclear sites?

Ambassador Greenfield said, she is worried that these nuclear sites throughout the country are going to become pawns, dangerous pawns in this war. What are the risks with troops moving about, with missiles in the air, with gunfire on the ground, about safety and leaks and other potential disasters?

CUPITT: Surely, these reactors are very robust by design. These have been shut down, but then they stay hot for weeks. And as she said, the cooling system has to be maintained, includes in some cases off-site and as well as on-site power to do so. If that happens, things will be - could be fairly stable. But if they fail, then you might see particularly maybe a Fukushima type event, if some of the containment building, especially if that's damaged.

KING: Well, you say a Fukushima type event, obviously, this is the site here of the Chernobyl event years ago. One of the things Ambassador Greenfield said, is that the Russians are not allowing just normal shift changes. What risk is there if the people on the sites who are trying to keep things safe, are A, exhausted and then B, stressed because they're operating at gunpoint?

CUPITT: Well, I imagined, I can't say for myself, because I've never been in a nuclear power plant war with people pointing guns at me, but I can't imagine that it's a good feeling. And these are - I would say, very brave, competent professionals. So, and they know what's at stake. I am not sure that the local commanders of the Russian forces have planned for this, have worked through this and that their troops are as aware of what's at stake. These nuclear facilities all planned for crises. They plan to address a range of threats. But I would say no one in recent memory has been---

KING: No one in recent memory has anything quite like this a war on the ground in Europe and a country with so many nuclear facilities. Rick Cupitt, our connection broke off there. We're grateful for your insights. When we come back, a diplomatic breakthrough of sorts, Russia and the Ukrainian say, they have an agreement on humanitarian corridors. Will the plan work? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: A modest diplomatic achievement is about to be tested. The Ukrainians and Russians say, they have a verbal agreement to open humanitarian corridors across Ukraine, for civilians who want to escape Russian attacks. Today, though Ukraine's President Zelensky says, "we will see if it works." CNN's international correspondence, Scott McLean, joins us now live from Lviv. Scott, skepticism from the Ukrainian president. How will we know? When will this be put to the test?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENCE: Hey, John, yes, we just heard from two of the negotiators from the Ukrainian side. And as you said, there's this agreement sort of in principle on the need for these humanitarian corridors. What they're trying to work out right now is how exactly to coordinate them, how exactly to implement them, because as one of the negotiators put it earlier, you can't just walk up to a Russian soldier and try to negotiate on the ground, how exactly this needs to happen.

There needs to be a third party involved. So, they're trying to get the Red Cross involved to sort of mediate coordinate the logistics on the ground of how it would actually work. They are hoping for more clarity, more of an answer on, for instance, Mariupol later today, because there are tens of thousands of people who would very much like to get out of that city as quickly as they can.

In terms of the overall negotiations, the Ukrainian say that look, in the first round of negotiations, perhaps their position wasn't so strong. They thought - the Russians obviously thought that they had the upper hand, the stronger position in the negotiations. But now that these international sanctions have kicked in, and the Russians are facing down the possibility that their economy is going to be harmed significantly, their position has been strengthened.

In addition to the fact that the Ukrainian resistance perhaps has been stronger than they thought as well, which has also improved their position. They think that a no-fly zone would further strengthen it because they think that they can take the Russians on the ground. One of the things that the Ukrainian say that they also negotiated was, how they would handle nuclear power plants. Listen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the negotiations, we propose the conflict free zone 30 kilometers around all nuclear facilities. So far, their military have not confirmed this. They said everything is great. We'll manage Chernobyl together and so on, and then immediately Zaporizhzhya happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: Now, obviously, we don't have the Russian response just yet, John. But one other point I wanted to make, and that's that I asked about the tone of these talks. Obviously, there's a war and you have these two parties meeting. The Ukrainian said that they were constructed, but then the local journalists push them saying, there was this photo published of the two sides shaking hands. How could you possibly be shaking hands with killers?

[12:25:00]

And the Ukrainian said, look, of course if I came to those negotiations and told them, hey, you're a killer. Well, it might help please the Ukrainian media, but it wouldn't help make the situation any better. And certainly, there will be more dead bodies. John?

KING: Scott McLean, a very important reporting live from Lviv, appreciate it. Scott, keep us posted on those talks. And there are other emergency meetings underway. In New York, we showed you the United Nations security council a bit earlier, and in Brussels today, the security council and at NATO headquarters, ringing with condemnations of Vladimir Putin.

Look at these pictures though. Shelter our sky, was the chant of these pro Ukraine demonstrators outside the NATO complex. You hear them there. Secretary of State Blinken, among the diplomats who pass by on their way to and from meetings at NATO headquarters. But the NATO allies again are making clear that they view an alliance in force no- fly zone over Ukraine as a non-starter.

Let's get some expertise and insights from man who knows this mission well, retired four-star general, former NATO supreme allied commander, General George Joulwan. General, appreciate your time today. Explain to somebody watching, who's watching the bloodshed, especially now as we see more and more pictures of Putin's destruction in Ukraine.

I think I get it, if you put a NATO no-fly zone in place, then you have to be willing to enforce it, which means you have to be willing to shoot down Russian planes. Why explain clearly and plainly why that would be such an escalation?

GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Because that would enter us directly in a war with Russia. However, I would not rule a no-fly zone out. But if you do put it in, you got to understand the consequences of doing so. But I think it's something that should be on the table. And we don't want to do it after Kyiv is leveled to the ground is that we should have done something about it.

We have to provide stingers and advice on how to use them. And take this convoy out that's coming down the road. It's running into a lot of problems. But that has all the sort of firepower that's going to inflict great damage, I think on the capital.

KING: You say, take out the convoy. You say, provide stingers and expertise. The administration says, there are stingers going. But I switched maps, so we can show the NATO countries around Ukraine. But Russia is here. Russia controls the areas down here. Is there a way, you know, the technology, the military capabilities? Is there a way to have a limited no-fly zone? Or some sort of no-fly zone using NATO technology out here? Or is the only way to do it to do things within the borders of Ukraine?

JOULWAN: John, if there is a will, there is a way. There is a way to do it. It's going to take some risk, but I think it's well worth the risk to really see what can be done. And if we're not supplying excellent information intelligence, if plain start coming in, it's going to make it worse. This is Putin's style here. He's going to use massive force. And I think, we should do all we can do to slow down this convoy, take a lot of those vehicles out and have. The best thing we could do is put an air shield over Kyiv.

KING: You said the best thing we could do. I want you to listen to moments ago, the U.S. secretary of state making clear, you know, we're talking now on day nine of this conflict. The Secretary Blinken makes clear, he thinks we're going to be at this for quite some time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Unfortunately, tragically, horrifically, this may not be over soon. And so, these efforts that we're making together, we have to sustain them. We have to build upon them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Obviously, there's been a remarkable reaction by the NATO alliance. General Joulwan, you know these countries well. You were a supreme allied commander when many of these new democracies were just getting roots. So, the question is, can this remarkable response sustain itself for six months, six months more, maybe a year or so, after that if Putin plays the long game, and he occupies Ukraine?

JOULWAN: If you say it cannot be sustained by the Ukrainians. I think they're much more proficient than we have been in providing the sort of tactics that need help in sustaining this - not having this attack occurred. But there are things that we can do, and intelligence sharing is one of them. I would think there's a way to be able to understand when airstrikes, Russian airstrikes are coming in, and what steps you'd be taken to take them down. Whether it's Stinger or NAA aircraft or some other weapons that can be used.

KING: You believe that can be done if the Ukrainian, so they trained up for the capabilities there. What do you have to send it at least advisors or consultants from the defense contractors?

JOULWAN: I think they are well. We've been working with them. They had a battalion go in with me to Bosnia and helped in that situation. They've also been involved in what I call this partnership for peace arrangement.