Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Humanitarian Corridors Try To Funnel Ukrainians Out Of Harm's Way; Ukrainian, Russian Foreign Ministers End Talks With No Deal To Stop War; Officials: Heavy Fighting Today On Outskirts Of Ukraine's Capital; Russian Strike On Mariupol Maternity Hospital Leaves 3 Dead; 6,000 Russian Troops Potentially Killed In First Weeks Of Invasion; VP Harris: U.S. & Poland "United" Despite Disconnect On Jets; DNI Won't Say If New U.S. Intel Led To Jet Decision; As Fighting Intensifies, VP Says Russia Committing "Atrocities". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 10, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello everybody, and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us. We begin this hour with a diplomatic stalemate and with its ghastly consequences. Today, a meeting between Ukraine and Russia's foreign ministers ends without an agreement for a ceasefire. No deal of course means more war.

This morning, new video shows Russian tanks smoldering on the main roads to Kyiv. Officials say heavy fighting is now engulfing the capital suburbs. No deal also means, more gut punch scenes, like the ones we're about to show you, and we need to more tell you they are extremely, extremely graphic.

The pregnant woman, you see it here stretchered on the scene of an apparent war crime, where Russian bomb demolished the maternity in a children's hospital in Mariupol. Three people, three people die in that strike. In that city of trench not for fighting, but for burying the dead. There are simply too many bodies, some 1300 according to Ukrainian officials, too many to hold funerals. Listen this morning to the grief and to the anger from a Mariupol city council member.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAXIM BORODIN, MARIUPOL, UKRAINE CITY COUNCIL DEPUTY: I can tell you that Russian soldiers are covert. They are afraid to make a street fight with our soldiers. So, they decide to totally destroy Mariupol. They don't have any human left with them. Putin makes from them a saddest because who can understand why they need to destroy maturity hospital. Why they need to bomb civil buildings? (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Across the rest of the country, Ukraine's president says humanitarian corridors are trying to ferry people out of kill zones. But along those planned escape routes, there are reports and reports and reports of Russian interference. Let's begin our coverage in Kyiv this hour. CNN Chief International Correspondent, Clarissa Ward. Clarissa, what's the latest?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, if anyone had been hoping for some kind of breakthrough in these talks between the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers, they will be sorely disappointed because it became very clear, very quickly, that there was no meaningful progress whatsoever.

The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba, saying that he had pushed hard for some kind of an agreement towards a ceasefire, but then he, quote said, unfortunately Lavrov, that's the Russian foreign minister seem to have come to talk but not to decide. That's a sort of, not so subtle dig at the Russian foreign minister essentially saying that he is not the one who has the authority to make a decision as to whether there could be some kind of a ceasefire.

Lavrov, for his part said that these talks were not the primary track and the place where that conversation about a ceasefire should be had that those talks should be had in the sort of forum of these ongoing negotiations that have been taking place near the Belarus border. But all of it giving people an increasingly gloomy picture. You know, yesterday, John, there had been a little bit of a lightning in the fighting here in the capital Kyiv. Today that was a very different picture.

We have heard pretty heavy bombardment in the suburbs around the capital, particularly in the northwest, as we've been seeing a lot but now also in the northeast in a suburb called Brovary, where you see that extraordinary footage that has been put out, taken by a drone that appears to show Ukrainian forces taking out more or less an entire column of Russian tanks, using anti-tank missiles, the javelins as they're called, that the U.S. and other nations have been supplying them with.

So, there has been continued bombardment in that part of the city towards the east. And of course, the fear is that it is the goal of Russian forces to continue to try to encircle the city to cut it off and to overthrow the government. And we heard that again from the mayor of Kyiv, who said that almost half of the city have now left and they believe very firmly that Kyiv is still the prize for Russian forces, John?

KING: Clarissa Ward, important live reporting from Kyiv. Please stay safe, you and all of our brave folks on the ground there. Kyiv is here, mostly just noting the Russians beginning to encircle it. Odessa is down here, where the Russians are trying to take full control of the southern coast. Let's go straight to Odessa now. Our CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is there. Nick, what's the latest where you are? NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. I mean, John, it still remains quiet here. But we've had a quite a different day, frankly here in the third largest city of Ukraine. Quite a lot of air raid sirens and close as we edge towards dusk. What sounded like anti-aircraft fire to sort of that direction behind me, harder than open environment, frankly, to work out precisely what is happening.

[12:05:00]

But we did hear from a regional military official earlier on, saying that their Russian ship had apparently appeared and fired five shots that were essentially designed to work out what the Ukrainian air defenses or defenses here would do in response. No verification of that, but it adds to the general, I think anticipation and concern that we may be looking at some sort of broader Russian move here.

On the outskirts of Mykolaiv, the major port city to the east of where I am has been the focus of a lot of their attention. We have seen some - I think you might say positive indications from the regional head there on telegram. He suggested that airstrikes successfully hit Russian convoys overnight, but he's also accepted Ukrainian losses at checkpoints around that town.

It's Kyiv, if you want to get to Odessa, you have to either go round Mykolaiv or head this way. But still, I think, lingering today, the utter barbarity of what happened at Mariupol on the Sea of Azov. That's the other side of the Crimean Peninsula, where I'm standing here. Now, the humanitarian corridors that not really it seems in effect, as far as we can tell.

And the International Committee of the Red Cross calling the situation there, increasingly desperate and dire. The lingering image here, John, of the vast crater outside of that maternity hospital. And I think for those who may have given Russia the benefit of the doubt at times in terms of its military target, its accuracy. We've seen them elsewhere in the world, they target hospitals, and no exception here. John?

KING: Nick Paton Walsh, critical reporting from Odessa. Nick, thanks again to you and your crew and your team, as you continue this reporting. Let's get some very important perspective now and insights from retired four-star general, former commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force, General John Allen. General grateful for your time today.

Let's walk through some of the battlefield now. We're in the third week of this war. Vladimir Putin thought he would have Ukraine by now. And I think many of the western allies that we would be supporting, maybe the beginning of an insurgency inside Ukraine instead, you still see the Ukrainian defenses.

Let's start up around Kyiv, where we just heard moments ago from our Clarissa Ward. It is the capital. It obviously is the critical target the seat of government. Vladimir Putin wanted to take it within days. We can show you again, the video of those tanks, the Russian tanks in the suburbs of Kyiv coming under attack. When you watch pictures like that, what does it tell you?

GEN. JOHN ALLEN (RET.) FMR. SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY TO GLOBAL COALITION TO COUNTER ISIL: Well, it tells me that the Russians still have a lot of strategic capacity, but it's at the tactical level where they're not being successful. Kyiv was the main effort of the several prongs, four prongs initially that invaded Ukraine.

But it bogged down almost immediately because Vladimir Putin massively underestimated the capacity of the Ukrainian army to fight, the population to resist and the resilience of the Ukrainian government. And those three things together have given the Ukrainians in the last tactical mile, so to speak enormous capacity to engage and defeat the Russians and that video was very graphic result.

KING: So, a logical mind might say, this is not going according to plan, I should reconsider. These are numbers are from yesterday, even before we saw this dramatic new video. U.S. officials, say this is their assessment as of yesterday. 6,000 Russian troops, as many as 6,000 Russian troops potentially killed so far, more than 710 Russian missiles launched, eight to 10 percent of Russian equipment destroyed.

That again, general before those scenes we see today. So, the logical mind might say reconsider, instead, we have Vladimir Putin. And again, we just heard from Nick Paton Walsh, a lot down here along the southern coast, another key strategic target. And we know, we have all witnessed what happened yesterday in Mariupol, which is horrific. You say war crime?

GEN. ALLEN: Oh, there's no question, it's a war crime. And I hope we're keeping score. At some point, Russian political leadership and Russian military leadership are going to need to be held accountable for this. And these are intentional targeting efforts at the civilian population, to crush the will of the Ukrainian people and to crush the willingness and the resilience of the Ukrainian political leadership as well.

KING: And so, the vice president of United States is in Poland today. And with that, she made an important announcement that the United States is sending in patriot missile batteries to Poland to defend just in case Vladimir Putin decides to go beyond Ukraine into NATO. Let's listen to a little bit of her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT: I've said it many times, I will say it again. The United States commitment to Article Five is ironclad. The United States is prepared to defend every inch of NATO territory. We are pleased to have announced this week that we have directed two patriot missile defense systems to Poland. And today, I can announce that we have delivered those patriot systems to Poland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So general, that's a critical announcement that says if you just look at the NATO belt around Ukraine and next to Russia, that that NATO forces are building up obviously and we're sending in new U.S. supplies, but there's been a huge fight over Poland offered to give MiG-29 to Ukraine. Secretary of state initially said good idea.

And then, we're told that people at the Pentagon, those who actually have to fight the war said, whoa, God, Vladimir Putin would take that as dramatic escalation. Helped me understand the difference. Why can we give them stinger missiles, javelin missiles, bullets, guns, but not planes?

[12:10:00]

GEN. ALLEN: Yes. My hope is that conversation isn't over. My hope is that that's still on the table in some form or another. What we needed to do was to move that conversation out of the glare of the media. So that all of the aspects of it and it's a complex conversation could be fully vetted, to ensure that if we do provide roughly those two dozen MiG-29s to Ukrainian pilots, who will fly them into Ukraine and fly them off of Ukrainian airfields.

So that they can get that those aircraft into the air to dispute the air to prevent that kind of bombing that we saw at the maternity hospital in Mariupol and to attack Russian columns. That's not something that we should take off the table, we should still have that conversation.

KING: Is there, if you're at the Pentagon, and you're having a meeting about this. Well, I mean, why would the Pentagon, why would the generals at the Pentagon or the secretary of defense make that distinction that we can give them javelins, we can give them stingers, we can send in bullets and guns and all sorts of other military hardware that kills people, but we can't give them jets. What's the difference?

GEN. ALLEN: Well, we'd have to ask the Pentagon for that specific reasoning. It's a distinction, perhaps without a difference in the big scheme of things. You just saw what happened to that Russian column, when those javelin missiles were unleashed on them. What would happen to that column if it had been attacked with close air support from MiG-29s, or some other kind of aircraft, it would really give the Russians pause to continue, whether they would continue this campaign or not the way they are.

KING: Beyond the issue of the MiGs. Again, this is a very different, playing out in a very different way in the battlefield and many anticipated at the beginning. So, if you're the president of United States, if you're the other leaders of NATO, and you're trying to figure out, how do you support President Zelenskyy? How do you support the Ukrainian military?

Again, two weeks ago, people would have thought we perhaps be supporting a Zelenskyy and exile or Zelenskyy in Lviv, and trying to support an insurgency, in Iraq style insurgency. You're still now need to support Ukrainian defense, what changes in what you to send it? How quickly you need to get it there?

GEN. ALLEN: Well, we need to continue to get the javelins and as quickly as possible. The stingers are really important because we saw the entire air war change in Afghanistan, we were able to equip the mujahideen with those kinds of shoulder fired missiles. And we need to make the air an untenable option for the Russians as much as we possibly can.

I say, we, I mean the support that we can give to Ukraine, in order to do that. And we should be thinking now about if the Russians ultimately turned west, and begin to head towards the NATO frontier, began to roll up the Ukrainian forces, defending Lviv. What are we going to do about that airspace conceivably to defend that third of Ukraine that still at this point has not been attacked? We need to be thinking about options in that regard.

KING: General, very much appreciate your insights. We'll continue this conversation obviously in the days ahead.

GEN. ALLEN: Thank you.

KING: Up next for us, as we noted vice president on the world stage today, lashing out at Russian atrocities and trying to smooth that disagreement with Poland over giving those fighter jets to Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Vice President Kamala Harris, today criticizing Russian atrocities in Ukraine and she embraced an international investigation of possible war crimes. Harris visit to Poland was complicated by a big Biden White House about face. Over the weekend, the administration embraced the idea of Poland, giving fighter jets to Ukraine.

But then, the White House abruptly changed course. Because the Pentagon concerns, it would be viewed by as the United States and NATO entering directly a war against Russia. After meeting with topples officials, though the Vice President said, no one should interpret differences over certain issues as a sign of cracks in the NATO alliance or in U.S. Poland ties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I want to be very clear. The United States and Poland are united in what we have done and are prepared to do to help Ukraine and the people of Ukraine, full stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share their reporting and their insights, CNN national security correspondent, Kylie Atwood, CNN senior White House correspondent, Phil Mattingly, and Tarini Parti of The Wall Street Journal. So, what happened here is the Kyiv? What happened? Secretary of State Blinken, well actually, let's just play. This is Secretary of State Blinken on CBS on Sunday. And then the Pentagon spokesman yesterday saying never mind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: That gets a green light. In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now, about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact, they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians.

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We do not support the transfer of additional fighter aircraft to the Ukrainian air force at this time, and therefore have no desire to see them in our custody either.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Just moments ago, up on Capitol Hill, the Director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, said there was a "new assessment" done by the U.S. intelligence community that informed this decision to say no, at least no, for now on the jet. She would not, then explain it. She was asked, well, does it say that Putin would take this as a major escalation, that Putin would then lash out. She would not explain that part. But what happened here?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you have senators asking that question right now. Because they are the ones who heard from President Zelenskyy over the weekend, during the phone call on Saturday that he felt that he really needed these fighter jets. And then you had, as you said, the secretary of state going on the airwaves and saying, we are looking at how we can do this.

And as recently, as yesterday, the secretary of state said in a press conference, that they're looking at how they can get these fighter jets to Ukraine in the right way. And then, later on, you had the Pentagon coming out and saying, we don't support getting them to Ukraine at all, not just from the United States, but we're not going to support Poland getting there either.

There is the question here of, what would Russia do, right? What is this theoretical red line that the United States at NATO may cross if they provide these fighter jets, and that's what you have the Pentagon pointing too, but you have senators who are still questioning the logic behind that, because we have provided so much support militarily already to Ukraine? So, they're saying, why are these fighter jets so different?

[12:20:00]

KING: Right. General Allen, who was just here, was raising that very question. He was, you know, you're giving them javelin missiles, you're giving them stinger missiles, you're giving them any weapons, pretty much any weapons you can, putting them just sending them across the border by land, now you can't fly them in anymore. What would the distinction be? But clearly at the Pentagon, they thought across the red line. The question is, do we let Putin make our decisions?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think right now, when you talk to administration officials, look, this was just a series of miscommunication after miscommunication after miscommunication, starting with a top E.U. official than moving to a Polish official than moving to U.S. officials. And then it seems to have gone back the other way as well over the course of the last 48 hours.

And I think, what's so jarring about it, we were talking about this during the break is, there has been so few cracks, so few fractures in the alliance that's been put together by the west over the course of the last several weeks. When you look at sanctions, when you look at the diplomatic efforts, when you look at the public statements, everyone has been aligned through and through almost entirely because of the White House and the Biden administration leading the way on this.

What is so jarring? And I think why Capitol Hill from both parties, not just Republicans, Republicans and Democrats have been so frustrated by this, is this seemed like a very real possibility. The administration seemed very open to it. And President Zelenskyy in a very impassioned manner, as Kylie was citing this weekend, in that zoom call that you had with 300 lawmakers, made clear this was an absolute necessity for him.

And so, what happened? This can't just be a miscommunication thing. There are technical issues. There are legal issues. There are serious NATO issues here, which we're hearing from U.S. officials. But lawmakers want results and outcomes, not explanations and confusion.

KING: To the point about lawmakers. Well, let's listen to Senator Jim Risch. He's on the foreign relations committee. He's a senior member on the Republican side saying, I don't get the distinction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JIM RISCH (R-ID): In taking their yachts were taking there. Their vacation properties, we're giving the Ukrainians all the arms we can give them. It's foolish to say that this is - this is somehow going to aggravate a more, that's nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Obviously, you should respect the opinion of the people who would actually have to fight the war, the Pentagon when they weigh in against this, their opinion matters. My question is, does this change, like so many other things have changed? So, we could go the administration did not want to ban Russian oil, then the president came out and banned Russian energy imports. We have seen because of President Zelenskyy's personal appeals, and because of what the mood in Congress, the administration has changed its mind. Will it on this?

TARINI PARTI, WHITE HOUSE, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I think the administration has been under so much pressure to take some action, you know, first on, obviously, Russian oil and now obviously facing a lot of pressure from members of Congress to do something about these planes. And I thought it was interesting the way White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, phrased it yesterday, when she was asked what role Vice President Harris could play in this. She said that she thought that this would be done best through military channels. So, she's sort of putting it - putting the onus on the Pentagon and the military have sort of figured this out. And the vice president today focused more on sort of showing a united front. She didn't really get into kind of the details of why that back and forth happen. And there, that's clearly what they're trying to project now that they're sort of trying to move on from this, but clearly on Capitol Hill, they have not moved on. And we'll be asking the administration a lot more follow up questions.

KING: So, we will track the military-to-military conversations in the alliance, which I think as you pointed out is a key point. Can you get all the military folks in the alliance on board? You mentioned the vice president's trip. She met with some Ukrainian refugees when she was there. She promised them that the world is watching, and the world will not forget. She also was asked about what happened yesterday in Mariupol, which we all saw and the broader Russian attacks against civilians. But yesterday was particularly ghastly, she said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: We are also very clear than any intentional attack on innocent civilians is a violation. And I have no question. The eyes of the world are on this war and what Russia has done in terms of this aggression and these atrocities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Poland's president was even more direct, said these are war crimes. The prime minister of Canada is also there in Poland, said these are war crimes. The U.S. officials are saying very clearly, this should be investigated. And they promised to help with their own intelligence, the documentary evidence, if you will, but they're stopped. They're saying, they look like war crimes, but they're not being as aggressive in their language as others. Why?

ATWOOD: They want to have a solid case, right? They don't want to put the cart in front of the horse here. You have seen this time and time again with the United States government. They just want to make sure that if they're going to make an allegation like that, they have every single piece of evidence lined up and ready to go.

Obviously, we as viewers of what is happening are watching that evidence play out in real time. But I think there are real questions as to how they gather that evidence and what the case is going to look like, particularly because you know, the United States doesn't have diplomats on the ground anymore.

KING: Take us inside the White House thinking in the sense that again, two weeks ago, people thought Putin would have Ukraine by now, and you would be trying to kick them out or support an insurgency. Ukrainians are still fighting back and fighting back tough. How does that change? What the president is trying to do?

[12:25:00]

MATTINGLY: Well, I think it's shown the necessity of the ramped-up support, and I think the support is going to continue to increase in a major level. We're obviously seeing the spending bill go through Congress right now, which has $13, $14, $15 billion of additional support both on security and humanitarian. So, I think that's the primary thing. I think more sanctions will be coming as well.

I think administration officials are still pretty cautious about assessments about what's going to happen in the future. But I think that they're understanding right now, given the dynamics is, we need to keep doing more. Might not be enough for some people on Capitol Hill, we need to keep doing more.

PARTI: I think what they're also looking at now is the effect this is going to happen on the domestic agenda. There are a lot of questions, of course, about inflation and gas prices. So, I think a lot of the options they're considering now also involve kind of what they can do to address these rising gas prices. And if there's anything, they can actually even do.

KING: Actually, even do. It's a moving - I hate to use the word target, but it is a moving target in every way. Ahead for us more on this, including Russia's tactics now testing. The U.S. response to Europe's biggest crisis since the cold war, plus the horrific scenes playing out across Ukraine. CNN is on the ground. As cities you'll hear it right there, getting pounded by Russian artillery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)