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Soon: Trump Flies To FL For Tues Arraignment; Trump: "Nobody Wants To Be Indicted"; CNN: Trump's Legal Team Searches For Lawyers To Represent Him In Florida; Sources: Law Enforcement Has Security Concerns Ahead Of Trump's Arraignment; Some In GOP Compare Trump Doc Charges To Clinton Email Case, But Facts Are Different. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired June 12, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, destination destiny. Soon Donald Trump takes off for Florida and tomorrow he sees inside of Miami federal court with decades in jail on the line. Plus, worry that words can and will hurt people. The former president and his allies put law enforcement on edge with calls for retribution. Congressman Jamie Raskin joins me ahead.

And Trump's 2024 Republican rivals are choosing between two paths, attacking law and order or risking voter anger by saying the president, the former president was wrong. I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and Inside Politics.

Right now, heading for history. You're looking at live pictures of former President Donald Trump, any moment he takes off for Florida from Newark airport. We all just watched his motorcade make the 30- mile drive from his golf resort. And tomorrow, he goes in front of a federal judge in Miami, and there, Trump will earn the title, something he certainly hasn't wanted, the first former president to face a federal arraignment.

Let's go straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes. So, Kristen, help us capture the moment and what you're hearing from your sources in Trump world?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, they are taking this very seriously. Here's what we know so far. We just saw Trump go by several minutes ago. He drove by here. They arrived at the Newark airport. When they land in Miami, they will be going up to his Doral club. I am told there they're going to meet with lawyers, talk about their legal strategy going into this.

Remember, they lost two lawyers on this case, two lawyers resigned. They are looking for a strong, Florida based attorney who can deal with the Department of Justice, someone who has experience with that. We know that they are making calls, trying to gauge interest in what attorneys or if attorneys would be interested in representing the former president. It is unclear now if they've already put out any offers or who exactly that they are talking to. Now, we are also told, my colleague Paula Reid that some of these firms are actually reaching out to Trump world offering up their services. So, this is going to be all part of the conversation today. And the other thing to note here is that Trump aide Walt Nauta is expected to travel down to Florida from his club in Bedminster to Florida ahead of the arraignment.

As we know, Trump's aide was indicted alongside the former president, this is significant, because there were questions as to whether or not Nauta would separate himself from the former president, whether or not this was about cooperation in any way, but clearly, the two are sticking together.

BASH: Kristen, thank you so much for that reporting. Very interesting final note there that you just learned that Walt Nauta is in fact, traveling with the former president still. Here with me at the table to share their reporting CNN's Manu Raju, CNN's Abby Phillip, and CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Thanks, guys for coming on. It's great to see all of you. Thank you so much, so much to talk about.

Let's just start with what's in your notebooks. I know, Jeff, you spend a lot of time last week in Iowa. You spent a lot of time every year in Iowa. You've been in contact with your sources back there. What are you hearing from Republicans in the first caucus state?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That I was talking to Republican who met with the former president when he was in Iowa just last week. And he said, look, the wagons are being circled. Yes, Republicans are rallying behind him. But there is still an opening, the same opening that existed last week. Now there's more reason for that opening.

If there were any Republicans who had pause about, can he be elected, this is raising some concern, but he said, look, we're going to have to sit back and watch it all. And the indictment has not been read by most Republican voters. This happens to be a lawyer or republican lawyer who met with him. So, he said, look, I have read the indictment. He said, it's pretty damning.

His words echoed what Bill Barr the former attorney general said, this is not a witch hunt. These are serious matters here. So, I think the voters, the, you know, the elite voters I guess perhaps, the lawyers and others are studying this, but we just have to give this some time.

BASH: Yes, absolutely. Most people have not read the indictment, which is why the former president is trying to put his stamp on it and trying to fill that void. I mean, legally is a whole different question, which we'll talk about later. But when it comes to the politics of this, what he said on the campaign trail is very telling.

[12:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Witch hunt, witch hunt, scam, hoax, it's called election interference and they're doing the best they can with it. The baseless indictment of me by the Biden administration's weaponized department of injustice will go down as among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country. As far as the joke of an indictment, it's a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing for this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Witch hunt, witch hunt, scam, hoax, it's like the greatest hits.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He is the king of the buzzword. And it works. It is very effective. I mean, repetition has always been one of Trump's most important tools in his toolkit. But I think that the Republican Party is grappling with some structural issues here is namely that the Republican Party as exists here was formed and structured by Trump himself. He popularized, lock her up, made Hillary Clinton's email issue, one of the foundational rallying cries of the Republican Party.

And so, it's for that reason, you know, what I hear from a lot of Republicans is that, if only for that one reason, many of them can't see a world in which they say, that Trump should be charged for a document classified, document related issue, when Hillary Clinton was not.

The logic of it, if you've read the indictment, if you look at the evidence does not make any sense. But that is part of the, you know, that's part of the DNA of the Republican Party right now. And many of these candidates, that's why you're seeing so many of them, even the ones who are criticizing Trump, like Chris Christie, they can't do it without saying, well, Hillary Clinton should have been charged, but it's always the but that gets in the way.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And you know, they're clearly trying to conflate the two situations, although their cases are dramatically different. I mean, really, what this indictment shows is Trump's efforts to try to allegedly cover up these documents that are trying to be retrieved by the federal government. Its efforts to try to hide them, the misstatements that he allegedly made all about it.

That is not what this, it's not about, simply mishandling classified documents, which is what the Biden situation was, which with Pence situation was, which with Hillary Clinton situation was. After, you know, we learned the Pence cooperated that case has been closed, providing the documents back to them. Biden apparently has cooperated. We don't know exactly what's going to happen that investigation, but these are much different cases.

But the argument, the political argument, facts be damned, they're going to make that case to try to suggest that one of the same. The big question too, for a lot of Republicans is, how quickly does this happen? Does this drag to the election year? Or does it is a punt until 2025?

BASH: You know, that's a good point. There was a moment in an interview that the former president gave to Politico that really caught our attention here. And I want to show you the key quote, and he said, "nobody wants to be indicted. I don't care that my poll numbers went up by a lot. I don't want to be indicted. I've never been indicted. I went through my whole life. now I get indicted every two months. It's been political." OK, that political thing is kind of typical. But the rest of it, I thought it was very, very telling.

ZELENY: It was. And this is something he's actually always been worried about. When he talked to his friends and advisers about the idea of getting in trouble or getting really his control taken away from him. And once again, this is going to be him walking into a courtroom and into a venue where he does not control.

So, for the next several months, we're going to see this play out on two tracks. One, inside the courtroom where we can't see, which is very serious. And on the campaign trail, which we can see, and he'll try to control. But the question underlying all this is, is he going to be the strongest Republican candidate to win back the White House? And that's what Republican voters are going to assess at the end of all this. So, they're offering him a speedy trial. He wants anything, but a speedy trial clearly.

BASH: Well, as you guys discussed, I want to put up on the screen new polling from CBS News/YouGov, which asks the question about national security risk. Would it be a national security risk if Trump kept nuclear military document? Look at those numbers. 80 percent likely primary voters say, yes 38 percent, the rest of the country 80 percent. That speaks to your exact point, Jeff.

RAJU: Yes. Look, that is the real fear among Republicans, and you'll talk to you is that he can win a primary because lots of those voters think that this is a witch. I think that this is nothing like different than Hillary Clinton, think that Donald Trump has gotten a raw deal from the federal government.

A lot of the more mainstream voters or swing voters, suburban voters, the people who decide elections, think differently. And that's the fear among people like Senator John Cornyn of Texas, who said to me and others repeatedly over the last several days and weeks, Trump is great in the primary. Sure, but that doesn't win you a general election. And those numbers really tell the story.

[12:10:00]

PHILLIP: The other argument that many of the former president's defenders are making is that this is all so complicated. People are just going to take a cursory look at this and not really understand it. But I do think that those numbers especially 80 percent. I mean that's a huge difference. And it really does speak to honestly, the reality is the opposite of what they are saying. These charges are actually pretty simple to understand.

This is a country where people understand what classified documents made for good or for bad. They know that they're supposed to be protected, that they're supposed to be kept secret that has national security implications. Those are actually not hard concepts to understand. What makes it worse for Trump is that there is a tape out there of him using his own words, talking about the situation in an incredibly damning fashion. I don't think that you can assume that people are just going to gloss over this, even if they have not read the indictment. Clearly some of this is penetrating to regular people. And that may not be a problem in the primary, but it will be a problem in a general election.

BASH: Everybody stand by. We're going to have a live look. As we go to break, the Miami federal courthouse, actually we're looking at the Trump plane. You see there. He's going to appear in Miami tomorrow. We're waiting for him to take off. What is unclear at the moment, who will walk into that courtroom with him. New CNN reporting on that is coming up. Stay with us.

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[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Right now, Donald Trump is on the tarmac in Newark, New Jersey. Soon he will take off for Florida and for history. Tomorrow, the former president gets his day in court. Trump will turn himself into authorities in Miami after being indicted last week on 37 federal criminal charges.

Today, he's in preparation mode. He's expected to meet with lawyers to discuss his defense team, which is shaping up. And CNN's Evan Perez is in Miami. Working your sources. Evan, as always, you have some new reporting on the former president's defense team. What are you hearing?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right Dana. We know that the former president's defense team lost a couple of members last week. And so, one of the things that they've spent the weekend, doing people in his circle, some of his remaining lawyers have been reaching out to Florida attorneys to try to find some people who could be on his team to help represent him here in Miami. People who are familiar with the Miami Federal District.

One of the things I was told by someone this weekend is, that they do have some people actually reaching out to try to offer their services. Some others, however, are turning him down. So, it's a bit of a mix of some that we were still trying to wondering who is going to be there next to him tomorrow.

When we do know, also is this, you know, the choice of bringing this case by the Justice Department to bring this case here in Miami is something that took shape over the last few months. You know Dana that the grand jury in Washington has been kind of the venue where they've been gathering most of the evidence. And so, it took our people -- people by surprise a little bit that they chose to bring it here.

One of the issues that that surfaced for prosecutors was the issue of venue, which was that the fact that Mar-a-Lago, which is where the former president took these documents, that's in this district. Made it more difficult to bring a case in Washington, which, you know, let's be honest, would have been probably a jury more friendly towards the prosecution, and he'll probably get a friendlier Trump jury here in Southern District of Florida. Dana?

BASH: That's really interesting about the venue because it has been a big question, not just about choosing that, you know, that there are reasons for that, but also the ramifications of that. Thank you so much for that great reporting, Evan. I want to go to another one of our fantastic reporter Shimon Prokupecz, who is also in Miami. Shimon, you are monitoring security preparations ahead of this historic arraignment. What are you learning?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, you know, when you look around the courthouse, we are not seeing that sort of uptick in security or measures that we have seen, for instance, in Manhattan when the president -- the former president appeared there, perhaps that's yet to come.

But I can tell you certainly that in talking to law enforcement officials this morning, there is a lot of concern over the number of people, Trump supporters that are going to appear here tomorrow. They are seeing intelligence that thousands of people are planning, at least right now to come here. And the big question is, what kind of security measures are in place to protect the building, to protect those of us who are here.

But Dana, I just want to give you a quick look. Most of the area right now is being protected by this kind of tape here. The police today put this up. Like I said to you earlier, we're not seeing those metal barriers, and generally people are able to walk through this area up to the doors today and it's almost like business as usual here.

Now this courthouse here is where the former president will appear. The courtroom right now is on the 13th floor. He will be processed in this building. He will be then taken up to the 13th floor where there's a very large courtroom. But there is a lot of concern over security, over what the police department, the local police department, the Miami city police department, the Miami Dade county police department, how are they preparing for all this?

Because right now, we're not seen any of those preparations. At two o'clock, we expect to hear from local officials on some of those plans. And hopefully, we'll see some increased security measures. But certainly Dana, we're not seeing the way we saw Manhattan just a few months ago.

BASH: It is so. First of all, there's nothing better than a Shimon walk and talk and show and tell. So, thank you for that. But it is really interesting, how sort of quiet it is there Shimon, right? If that changes, let us know.

We're going to go now to some experts on these and other issues. National security attorney Mark Zaid, and former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe. Let's start with you on what you just saw from Shimon. Does that surprise you? [12:20:00]

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: It's a little surprising that you don't see more of a physical presence, kind of being developed barricades coming out, vehicles blocking certain streets to access parts so the courthouse. You may still see that by the end of the day today sometimes 24 hours before the event is when you see that hard. Those hard changes come into play. So, we'll have to keep a close eye on it. I'm sure they're coordinating very closely across as law enforcement, jurisdictions that that Shimon just mentioned. We just have to wait and see what happens.

BASH: OK. Let's turn to some of the legal issues. And of course, the political issues that go with it. Mark Zaid, I want to ask you about something that Lindsey Graham -- Senator Lindsey Graham, who of course has endorsed Donald Trump. He's a big supporter, very vocal supporter of Donald Trump, and also an attorney.

He said the following. He said, President Trump will have his day in court, but espionage charges are absolutely ridiculous. Whether you like Trump or not, he did not commit espionage. He did not disseminate, leak or provide information to a foreign power or news organizations to damage this country. He is on a tear about this. I would not be surprised if we saw him on the Senate floor, making these arguments. As an attorney and an expert on national security, what do you think of this argument?

MARK ZAID, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Sure. And congratulations on your new program, thanks.

BASH: Thank You.

ZAID: What he said is ridiculous. It is so hypocritical and politically frustrating because that's what this is as a political statement by him. Lindsey Graham knows full well the Espionage Act, which dates back a century encompasses a whole host of provisions, one of which is spying for a foreign power, like Alger James or Robert Hanson, who recently passed away.

And ironically, we see this both on the left extremism side in support of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, where that side decries, or they've been prosecuted or charged under the Espionage Act. This is an espionage, and yet now we see it on the right. It has nothing to do with espionage in the formal James Bond sense, other than the statute is called the Espionage Act.

This is as is made clear in 793(e), which is the charge he has been obsessed with. It has to do with unlawful retention of national defense information and failing to return it. Lindsey Graham should know better. He does know better.

BASH: Well, Andy, he is sticking by it. But I think that the point that Mark just made is really important. There is the law and the statute, then there's also what it conjures up when you hear espionage, and the politics of that and push back on the notion that espionage equals spy and that he was somehow involved in that kind of -- in that kind of work for the former president.

MCCABE: That conjuring creates a great political opportunity for people like Lindsey Graham, but it has no legal significance. Mark is exactly right. The statute that the former president charged under is very well suited for the behavior that we now know he engaged in.

BASH: I want to ask you about Hillary Clinton, your favorite topics. You were deputy FBI director when there was an investigation of her and her much talked about emails. I want you to listen to Republicans repeatedly alluding to that, talking about that as they discuss the Trump case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I don't think there should be classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, at Joe Biden's garage, on Hillary Clinton's server.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What he did is very similar in my view to what Hillary Clinton did. People in the Clinton case took a hammer to a Blackberry and destroyed it.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): You had Secretary Clinton, who had classified material on a server. She was not president United States, she was Secretary Clinton. You have that happen? Nothing happens to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You know, the facts. What are the facts?

MCCABE: Well, Dana, as you know, cases come down to facts and evidence on politics. In these two cases could not be more different on the facts. So, let's talk about what we actually found in the Hillary Clinton email case. Yes, Hillary Clinton maintained private servers, emails went across those servers. Ultimately, she returned 30,000 emails to the Department of Defense work related emails.

In addition to those, we found thousands more emails that she exchanged with people, the total classified materials seized from that review, were essentially 55 email conversation, strings of emails in which eight were classified top secret, 37 secret and 10 confidential.

Now, it's important to remember those weren't classified documents that was simply the content of email exchanges that was later deemed to be classified. These weren't documents with classified stampings on the tops and bottoms and cover sheets and all that kind of stuff.

Should it would have happened? No. But what we didn't have was evidence that Hillary Clinton had intentionally exchanged or withheld classified information. And that's just what we could and could not prove at the end of the day.

[12:25:00]

In the Trump case, you have what 300 plus classified documents, full documents seized from his residence at Mar-a-Lago, some of -- most of which, from the photographs that we've seen had headers and footers back, you know, this, the proper stampings portion markings on paragraphs, cover sheets indicating they were some of the most classified materials we have. And then, of course, he engaged in a long series of exchanges and activity in an effort to obstruct that investigation, very, very different facts.

BASH: Thank you for saying that. Thank you for explaining that. What about ism is very intense right now and you are somebody who definitely knows facts on this case. Thank you. Thank you very much Mark Zaid, appreciate it.

And Donald Trump wasted no time, rallying support. Following his indictment, several House Republicans wasted no time rushing to his defense. A member from the other side of the aisle, Congressman Jamie Raskin will respond to his colleague's rhetoric, and he joins me here next.

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