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RNC: Stop Complaining About Loyalty Pledge; Jill Biden: "Shocking" That Republicans Don't Care About Trump's Indictment; GOP Fears Trump Could Drag Down Ballot; McConnell: Candidate Quality Is Key In 2024. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 16, 2023 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He didn't answer that question. He wouldn't answer that question. But others, like Kevin Kramer, who's a senator from North Dakota, he's actually endorsing the North Dakota governor.

But he said that if Donald Trump is a convicted felon, he would support him because he said, I would support a convicted ham sandwich over Joe Biden. So you're seeing the debate play out all over the Republican Party right now.

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Right. And at the same time, let's just all go into our brains here, maybe go back 10 years ago and say we're having a conversation about a party that is thinking it's OK to nominate a candidate who's indicted and might be criminally charged as the nominee, and that this is an actual debate, whether this is a good idea or a bad idea.

I think we would all have agreed, don't put the name Trump here. Just say, do you think that a party should nominate a candidate for president who has been indicted? You would say, absolutely not, that's --

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Totally, but here's the thing. If it was not the name Trump, the answer would be, no.

WALTER: Absolutely.

BASH: Don't you think?

WALTER: Absolutely.

BASH: I mean, he's in a category of his own --

WALTER: Absolutely.

BASH: -- when it comes to the way that Republican --

WALTER: Think about it.

BASH: -- voters. WALTER: So it's this focus just on the immediate and not thinking down to, what is this going to look like by the time we hit the fall? But I want to pick up on something that Eva said too, because I'm starting to pick this up too, and talking to folks not just in the early states like Iowa, but other of these swing states like Georgia, where the sort of weariness and wariness of Trump is starting to show that, no, they don't think that Trump is guilty per se.

Yes, they think that the DOJ is out of line and it's been politicized and there are double standards, but also, it's just a sense of, wow, there's still just all this drama and all this chaos. And so you can start to see that weighing down on voters, it's not going to happen all at once, but it is bubbling up.

BASH: Interesting. OK, everybody, stand by. We have a lot more to talk about.

But first, an important CNN interview, you are not going to want to miss, former President Barack Obama sits down with CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. It's a global exclusive and in-depth conversation on the state of democracy in the United States and around the world. "Obama and Amanpour: Will Democracy Win" airs Thursday, June 22, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, live from Athens, Greece. Maybe she needs a producer.

When we come back, the First Lady out front and doing what her husband is hesitant to do -- hitting the former president head on. Stay with us.

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[12:37:17]

BASH: At the White House, we're seeing a contrast between how the west wing and the east wing are approaching Donald Trump. You can best describe the president's strategy as keep quiet and carry on, but the First Lady, well, she's going right after the Republican frontrunner.

I want to go to CNN's Arlette Saenz, who is at the White House with reporting on that. Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dana. First Lady Jill Biden has shown that she is not shying away from taking on former President Trump and the Republican Party as a whole. She's been traveling across the country this past week, participating in fundraisers where she has really talked about how her husband offers a contrast to the administration that preceded him.

She describes her husband as providing stable, steady leadership and then has been referring to, quote, the corruption and chaos of the previous administration. She also, notably, has really been the only White House official to weigh in in any manner regarding the indictment of former President Trump.

At a fundraiser earlier in the week, she said that she was shocked that many Republicans continue to support the president, saying they don't care about the indictment. Now, all of these comments came in fundraisers, which are off camera.

So these words don't exactly carry the same punch as they might if she was saying it in a big speech on camera. But it does show the type of messaging that she could relay heading into this election over the course of the next few years. She, of course, has been a fierce defender of her husband and believes that he does provide a very stark contrast with the former president.

Now, these next two weeks will be critical for the campaign, as they're really trying to ramp up their fundraising efforts. They're hoping to post high numbers as the fundraising quarter is set to end at the end of the month. And a little bit later today, both President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris will hold separate fundraisers. So we'll see how they intend to make that contrast with the former president, their first fundraisers since the indictment.

BASH: We'll wait to hear back from you about how those fundraisers go. Arlette, thank you so much for that reporting.

Back around the table here. And, Eva, she was mentioning that maybe when they say it in a way that's not on camera at these fundraisers, it might not have the same punch. But we do have reporting on exactly what the First Lady said on Monday.

She said, quote, "Like I just saw, when I was on my plane, it said 61 percent of Republicans were going to vote, they would vote for Trump. They don't care about the indictment. So that's a little shocking, I think".

And just for context, again, what Arlette said is key at the White House. The president and other political advisers have said, don't go there. Don't get involved. They said the same thing to the DNC and the Biden campaign.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, listen, she can do this in a way that no other Biden can. And also, we know that those environments, those fundraisers sometimes lead these principles to be a little bit more loose. So this is perhaps why she said this.

[12:40:13]

But ultimately, she is, I think, sticking to the messaging that most Democrats will land on, that, you know, this argument of MAGA Republicans, this is a poll tested argument. But Jill Biden is not a polarizing figure. So we're not going to see, I think, Republicans pile on her for making these comments in a way that they certainly did if the president did come out and say this.

BASH: Do you agree with that? You talk to Republicans all day, every day on the Hill.

RAJU: Well, they certainly -- Joe Biden one way differently than perhaps Joe Biden. But my question for the Biden campaign will be, at what point do they decide to seize on all of the allegations and the evidence that's going to come out in this trial that will be probably very damning for the former president? You know, these could be -- these are campaign ads that are written in these indictments. But, you know, the challenge for them politically, of course, is if they seize on these issues, then they will feed into the narrative that this is Joe Biden who --

BASH: That's right.

RAJU: -- indicted Donald Trump when it was actually a federal grand jury led by a special counsel, and the allegations backed up by evidence. Nevertheless, that's going to be their challenge going forward. But there's still a lot they can use politically. At some point, they might have to.

WALTER: Well, and the challenge also is that he's under investigation as well for his handling -- the president -- that is, of classified documents. So we still have to walk through that.

RAJU: Yes.

WALTER: And if the Department of Justice ultimately says, all right, everything's cool, nothing here to, you know, prosecute for Biden, we know that the argument will be, see, there are two tiers. So it's almost a no-win situation here.

BASH: Yes, exactly. And it's a narrative that is already out in full force --

WALTER: Yes.

BASH: -- among Republicans that not just two tiers of justice, but that the Biden administration --

WALTER: The Biden administration, yes.

BASH: -- is going after Donald Trump.

WALTER: That's right.

BASH: Again, this is a special counsel and the president, and his aides have insisted up and down that they are letting them do their thing and that they are not meddling at all.

RAJU: Yes. Amy, look, at some point the White House will have to push back on that in a more forceful way. You've seen the White House Press Secretary sidestep questions about this to make it clear that this was the special counsel, this was not the White House's involvement, this was done in a separate way.

But they don't even want to have any -- may have any comment that could link them in any way to this. But when one side is quiet, the other side is going to fill up that vacuum and try to push their own narrative. And that's what Republicans are going to try to do.

BASH: OK, everybody, stand by.

When we come back, Republicans sounding the alarm that they're best and brightest. They don't want to run for office if the twice indicted former president tops the ballot. We're going to talk about that with my panel up next.

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[12:47:28]

BASH: Drama in the U.S. Senate. John Thune, the second highest ranking Republican senator, says the GOP should not nominate Donald Trump in 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), MINORITY WHIP: Elections generally are about, you know, winning people, independent voters and moderate Republicans. We've lost three elections in a row now. He's been the issue in every one of those elections. And I don't think, you know, getting into this tit for tat where it's a race to the bottom to see who can retaliate against whom from one administration to the next is the way to lead the country forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: For the record, Thune endorsed his colleague Tim Scott for president. So did Senator Mike Rounds, who told CNN, quote, "No question a Trump ticket could cripple candidates down ballot". Senator Mitt Romney put it this way, "Trump is the only serious Republican contender for president right now who could lose, and that would obviously affect the rest of the ticket".

Our great reporters are back now. We just heard from senators. Let's hear from one of the former president's competitors on the campaign trail, Chris Christie. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a failed leader. We gave him a Republican House, a Republican Senate, and he failed. He failed us, Bill. And he failed us by losing the House, by losing the Senate, and by turning over the White House to Joe Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK, at the CNN Town Hall earlier this week. Loser, loser, loser. And let me just look at this going forward. Some of the headlines that we've seen in major publications this week. The Washington Post, "Down-ballot Republicans brace for vortex that is Donald Trump". Politico, "As indictments pile up, Trump's Senate GOP skeptics multiply". And the Hill, "Trump indictment puts GOP supporters in an awkward spot".

Manu, you talk to these members who are many of whom who are going to be on the ballot or recruiting people to help Republicans take control. What are you hearing?

RAJU: It's really complicated, because it's the same issue that's been playing out year after year that Trump supporters, they are animating the base. They are -- they need them in their primary. Steve Daines, the head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, has endorsed Donald Trump for President.

He needs not to be at loggerheads with the former president if they were to get into an endorsement battle over some candidates. And so they need to be on the same page. But at the same time, there is real fear that John Thune is expressing, that Senator John Cornyn is expressing, and others that he could drag down the tickets.

I mean, you look at the Senate map possibly, as Mitch McConnell told me last month, Trump could help them in places like West Virginia and Montana and Ohio, where the Democratic incumbents are up for reelection.

[12:50:03]

But then you look at other states, like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, places where Donald Trump did not win and which Democrats are trying to hold on to their seats, he could hurt them in those seats, and they could have an impact in the House, too. Typically, top of the ticket has such an impact --

WALTER: Yes.

RAJU: -- down ticket in House races, and Democrats have a real chance of winning the majority.

WALTER: And this is recruitment season.

BASH: Yes, yes.

WALTER: Right? This is where we are in retirement and recruitment season right now for congressional races. And if you are an ambitious Republican trying to win in a district that is marginal, you might want to sit this one out. I've been talking to some Republicans who have said that, that they're trying to talk to Republicans about coming in, especially as challengers try to take this seat here.

They say, well, I don't know, maybe I'll wait until 2026. It might be a better environment, i.e. --

BASH: So you're talking to Republicans who are having trouble recruiting?

WALTER: Yes, that that will be an issue there. Now they also have to protect their 18 Republicans who sit in Biden states. Thankfully for Republicans, those folks are sticking around. You don't see a lot of retirements there.

BASH: Yes.

WALTER: But we have seen it in election after election where Trump is on the top of the ticket. Republican candidates are only able to outpace him by a little bit. It's not enough to just out. And in some of these districts, they're going to need to outpace him by 10 or 15 points.

BASH: And Eva. It's not just when he's actually on the ticket, it's just when he's involved and he's a president, I mean, presence. I mean, look at 2022, the midterms.

MCKEND: Yes.

BASH: The House Republicans took control, but by a way narrower margin than they expected or hoped. And look at what happened in the Senate. All of the close races, for the most part, tipped towards Democrats, and they not only kept control, they got an extra seat, right?

RAJU: Yes.

BASH: My math right there?

RAJU: Yes.

WALTER: Yes.

MCKEND: Yes. Listen, one size doesn't fit all. This is really the test if you're any good at politics, if you can get the right candidates in the right places. I was in Georgia last cycle covering that Senate race, and you would often sort of see Republicans lament if they only had a different candidate other than Herschel Walker. Not to say that maybe Herschel Walker wouldn't have worked in some far-right House seat.

But for still a purple state like Georgia against Senator Warnock, perhaps that wasn't the best candidate that they could have put up. So this is something that Republicans will continue to confront. They are facing sort of an identity crisis here. And this is all the measure of, can you really --

BASH: Yes.

MCKEND: -- play politics and compete.

BASH: And Manu, as you come in, I want to remind our viewers what the Senate Republican leader told you, Mitch McConnell told you on May 8th. He said, quote, "We do have the possibility of screwing this up and that gets back to candidate recruitment". What you were talking about, Amy. "I think that we lost Georgia, Arizona, New Hampshire because we didn't have competitive candidates".

WALTER: Yes.

RAJU: Yes.

BASH: Can you fill in the blanks there?

RAJU: Yes, I mean, that's very --

WALTER: That's very Mitch McConnell.

RAJU: -- Mitch McConnell. Like, he is all about finding not the candidates who are Trump necessarily simply backed by the former president or in line with the former president. He's fine if they are, as long as they are -- also could perform well in the general election. And that's the real challenge.

We are in a moment right now where they're hoping they get David McCormick in Pennsylvania. There's another candidate in Montana named Tim Sheehy who they're pushing to get into the racers expectation they both will. But there are difficult primaries in West Virginia. There's one that's playing out.

We still don't know if Joe Manchin is going to run. There's an Ohio primary that could also get pretty bloody as well. So a number of states where that candidate quality issue could under hurt them and then you have the problems at the top of the ticket that could spell disaster for the Republicans. That's why Mitch McConnell is focused, like trying to get those right candidates even though the math favors them and they should win the majority, if you just look on the paper --

WALTER: Yes.

RAJU: -- may not turn out that way.

WALTER: And they're already too. They're already having trouble again, once again in Arizona. There's no candidate in Michigan, another battleground state. And Wisconsin, mike Gallagher, congressman seen as very much of a rising star this week, announced that he's not going to run for the Senate against Tammy Baldwin.

So you may have those three states, Montana, West Virginia, Ohio, which are the toughest for Democrats. But Mitch McConnell also loves to say don't fall in love with the map because the map doesn't vote. People vote.

BASH: I love the McConnellism.

Great conversation. Thanks for all your reporting. Appreciate it.

And the Attorney General is delivering a damning report on the Minneapolis police. That story next.

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[12:59:19]

BASH: Three years after the murder of George Floyd, the Justice Department issued a blistering review of the Minneapolis Police Department. The report found the city violated the first and fourth amendments and often used excessive force.

Floyd was killed three years ago when Officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck and back for more than nine minutes while Floyd gasped for air. The DOJ says neck restraints were used by MPD 197 times between 2016 and 2020. Floyd's death sparked worldwide protests and calls for police reform across the country, particularly in Minneapolis. Chauvin has been convicted in Floyd's death. Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts right now.