Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Hunter Biden To Plead Guilty To 2 Federal Tax Offenses, Strike Deal On Felony Gun Charge; WH: Bidens "Love Their Son And Support Him." U.S. Atty: Hunter Biden Investigation "Is Ongoing."; GOP Lawmakers Slam Hunter Biden Plea Deal, Vow To Keep Investigating; Trump On Hunter Biden: "Our System Is Broken"; McCarthy: Biden's Son Got "Sweetheart Deal"; Trump's Support Softens After Indictment. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 20, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, a plea deal for the president's son. The Justice Department says, Hunter Biden will admit he broke federal tax and gun laws. A development already kicking up a hornet's nest of House Republicans.

Plus, we have brand new CNN poll numbers. This hour they confirmed Donald Trump's big early lead but not as big as it was. And the former president walks into a trap of his own making. He goes on Fox News and talks a lot about the legal case against him. Did he accidentally confess to some of the crimes he's accused of committing?

I am Dana Bash, let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics. Up first, crimes and punishment. We learned this morning that Hunter Biden plans to plead guilty to tax crimes, not paying his taxes on time. We also learned that the president's son struck a deal to avoid prosecution on a gun charge. And we're told prosecutors will ask Mr. Biden be put on probation.

I want to go straight to Delaware where this all went down. That's where CNN correspondent Kara Scannell is. So, Kara, is the case closed against Hunter Biden?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, that's a great question. I mean, we do see that this has been a five-year long investigation. They have looked at so many different areas of Hunter Biden's business dealings. They were, he was under investigation, one point for money laundering for potential foreign lobbying violations.

And in the end, he pleaded he's agreed to plead guilty to those two tax misdemeanors for failing to pay taxes in 2017 and 2018, about more than $100,000 for each of those years. And then also striking a deal to essentially divert from pleading guilty to a federal gun possession charge because he was an addict at the time that he held the gun according to the court filings for about 11 days.

Now, the Hunter Biden's attorneys have issued a statement in which they said, with the announcement of two agreements between my client Hunter Biden and the United States attorney's office for the District of Delaware. It is my understanding that the five-year investigation into Hunter is resolved. Now the U.S. attorney's office put out a statement from the U.S. attorney here in Delaware, David Weiss, who was a Trump appointee. And they said the investigation is ongoing.

Now, it does remain a little bit murky here. Sometimes that is the type of boilerplate language that is in a press release until the case is ultimately resolved, which would be when Hunter Biden enters that guilty plea when a judge signs off on it. And then when he is ultimately sentenced.

And, you know, according to our sources, this U.S. attorney has agreed to recommend to the judge that Biden receive a sentence of probation, so no jail for those tax misdemeanor charges. You know that it's something that the judge will ultimately have to sign off on. Dana?

BASH: Kara, thank you so much. I want to now go to the White House where CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz is, and you are talking to sources there. What are you hearing?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, President Biden was out in California when the news broke about Hunter Biden's plea agreement. And so far, we've only gotten a very brief statement from the White House, which said that the president and first lady continue to support their son and love him. And they said that the White House will not have any further comments at this time.

But it really tracks with this longstanding approach from President Biden to offer support for his son. Even as these legal issues have been playing out behind the scenes, the president has not shied away from having his son Hunter Biden around. The Hunter Biden has never played any formal role within the White House, but he has acted as a sounding board with president over the years.

He accompanied him recently on a trip to Ireland and has been a fixture at other events at the White House since Biden took office. But the White House has also really tried to maintain this distance and separation from this investigation. We haven't heard the White House commenting on the investigation as it played out, trying to maintain its independence.

And in fact, a President Biden when he came into office, he kept that Trump appointed U.S. Attorney in Delaware who was leading the probe. He kept him in place in order to avoid any perceptions of interference in this matter.

Now, the Biden family has been navigating having Hunter in the spotlight for many years now, including dating back to the 2020 presidential campaign when he became a frequent target for Republicans and former President Donald Trump.

[12:05:00]

You know I recently asked just a few months ago, I asked First Lady Jill Biden, whether these investigations into Hunter impacted any of their political thinking heading into a reelection campaign? And she told me, no, that simply they are there to love and support their son. But this is a historic moment, as the son of a sitting president is facing these federal charges right now.

BASH: Arlette, thank you so much for that reporting. And joining the conversation here, CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams, and CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero. Paula, I want to start with you because you too have been doing reporting on this. What are you hearing?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, what's interesting to me is how this is all concluded in the past several weeks. We know that this investigation has been going on for years. Last summer, CNN reported that prosecutors at that time had narrowed it down to a few possible tax charges and the question of a possible gun charge, then nothing for seven months.

And at that time, as we reported Hunter's lawyers asked for a meeting. And back in April, they made their pitch to DOJ about why Hunter should not be charged. They said, look, he paid these taxes back with fees and penalties. You should not be charged in those. They also pointed to a recent Supreme Court decision sort of expanding Second Amendment rights and said, it's going to be hard for you to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt.

We know in recent weeks, negotiations have really ramped up between Biden's attorneys and the Justice Department calls back and forth, which finally resolved this deal with this deal. So, I think it's significant that even though it's taken years, right, for this investigation to play out, it really appeared to heat up in the past about eight to nine weeks since that DOJ meeting. And finally, they've been able to negotiate an agreement to resolve this.

BASH: Take us behind the scenes as somebody who has been a federal prosecutor involved in, maybe not the investigation about sitting president son, but investigation is nonetheless.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, about 97 percent or 98 percent of federal cases, Dana, end up in guilty pleas. And so, the first thing to take away from this is that it's really nothing remarkable for any investigation to end this way as a dip. Now, this kind of agreement based on tax charges and gun possession charge, it's not uncommon. It's really pretty straightforward and basic.

Now, the question is, where do you go from here? And I know a lot of people are reading into the use of the word ongoing in the statement, and maybe there's still an ongoing investigation on Hunter Biden, we shall see. Congress is certainly going to be investigating this. Look for a report from them. But just on the books of a federal investigation, this was a really, by the books, it's a straightforward deal.

BASH: Well, Carrie, I want to -- we are going to talk a lot about Congress and Republicans in the politics of this later on in the show. But just staying on the DOJ investigation. It was striking that the Hunter Biden legal team released a statement saying, that their understanding, is that case closed.

And then David Weiss, who is -- we should remind people, the U.S. attorney who was a holdover from Donald Trump. He's a Trump appointed U.S. attorney. Biden kept him on in Delaware, pretty much for this reason, because this investigation was going on of his son. And he said that this is an on -- basically that it's not case closed. Have you read that with your legal glasses on?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I mean, there's a couple different possibilities. This is obviously a really significant milestone, both for the Biden family and for the Justice Department's investigation. Five years is a long investigation. I think, to end up with fairly minor charges in terms of the plea that has been arranged misdemeanors.

So, I think on one hand, if the defense attorneys are saying, our understanding is case closed, then then that is what they believe has been communicated from the Justice Department to them in their ongoing negotiations. And it seems like that would have factored in to Hunter Biden's decision to go forward with this plea agreement.

The ongoing part from the U.S. attorney, it could be that he's saying that because there is this interim period of time before Hunter Biden actually is arraigned and an orally enters the guilty plea. And so, the case still needs to formally close. That could be part of it. I guess we have to hold out the possibility that there is some other aspects of it, but I think that's less likely than more or less.

BASH: And just to reset what we're talking about as and I'm going to bring you back in Elliot. We're talking about with regard to the plea deal, plead guilty to two tax crimes, avoids prosecution on a gun charge. And sources tell us that the recommendation from DOJ will be probation.

WILLIAMS: You know, one of the things I'd say just as a practical matter, and I've seen this a lot, frankly, in firearm and drug cases that I used to prosecute is that there are a lot of ways for someone who with a history of substance abuse to be perfectly candid, and firearm possession can violate the terms of their probation. It happens very tragically, very commonly and very frequently.

[12:10:00]

And so, two years can be a very long time for an individual and you never know how it's going to end. Now that doesn't mean that the Justice Department is actively investigating those matters. It's on him now but it can certainly happen violent.

BASH: And Hunter Biden is extremely open now about his drug addiction and his substance abuse. I mean, just one line from his memoir, which came out in 2018 about his relapse. This one sentence kind of speaks volumes. "I was smoking crack every 15 minutes," smoking crack every 15 minutes.

REID: And that's how his father has framed it. Whenever he's been asked about these ongoing investigations, he talked about how a lot of the alleged conduct happened when Hunter was at the height of his addiction, and that he was sort of caught up in these issues, as many American families are. So that's how he has tried to frame his son's ongoing legal problems.

And of course, that does not explain away the tax issues. But specifically, when it comes to the gun charge and failing to disclose his prior addiction on that form. That's how his father has tried to frame that. And again, he's going to go through diversion, but to your point, in order to get that -- -

BASH: Can you explain what diversion is?

REID: Yes, sure.

BASH: People who are not lawyers.

REID: At the state level, it's really common. If you have your first DUI crimes related to mental health or drug abuse, oftentimes, instead of sort of prosecuting you or sending you to jail, you'll go through a program. It may mean, you have to attend some classes, do some programs, obviously, stay sober, sometimes comply with other requirements, and then you can potentially have those charges expunged.

It is less common at the federal level because those are not the types of crimes that federal prosecutors are usually dealing with. Usually, that's something at the local level. So, in learning about this and reporting this out, we've had a lot of questions about exactly what the requirements will be for him. And we may learn more about that when he has his first appearance, his arraignment, which hasn't been scheduled yet.

BASH: Yes. That's an important point as well. OK. Thanks, everybody. Really important context here. And up next, a slap on the wrist. That's how congressional Republicans say that Hunter Biden dealt with this situation or certainly the DOJ dealt with this with a plea deal, and they promise to keep investigating. More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Republicans on Capitol Hill are slamming the plea deal just taken by Hunter Biden. They say, it isn't fair that the president's son's case is being handled this way and they're vowing to keep investigating. CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Manu, you just talked to the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. What did he tell you?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh. He says that this is going to quote enhance the House Republican investigation into Hunter Biden. Specifically, what he says is that the Justice Department now must turn over records related to its investigation to the House Oversight Committee, which is already probing Hunter Biden. He's looking into Joe Biden trying to make some connection between overseas business dealings and pin it to the White House, somebody that the White House has dismissed. But the speaker also dismissed the plea deal that was reached and the fact that it was led by a Trump appointed U.S. attorney that was held over into the Biden administration suggesting that there's -- in his words, a two-tier justice system because of the fact that the former President Donald Trump had been charged by the Federal, by the Justice Department and is facing jail time, Hunter Biden is not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA): It continues to show the two-tier system in America. If you are the president's meeting political opponent, the DOJ tries to literally put you in jail and give you prison time. If you are the president's son, you get a sweetheart deal. Now this does nothing to our investigation that actually should enhance our investigations because the DOJ should not be able to withhold any information now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: As speaker didn't address a question about whether or not, how the fact that these are different investigations. The former president was alleged to have obstructed the investigation into his handling of classified record alleged to have made misstatement to prosecutors all of which, which led to his criminal indictment in that federal case, much different than the Hunter Biden situation.

But nevertheless, we are hearing Republican after Republican equating the two saying that Hunter Biden should have gotten just as stiff of a potential jail time as perhaps the former president even more so. If McCarthy is suggesting to me that perhaps that Hunter Biden should have gotten up to 10 years in prison, and although each case is different.

McCarthy says, it is similar to other cases in which similar people who could face similar charges who could face up to 10 years in prison, no secured nodes. It's unclear exactly which cases he is referring to. But nevertheless, this is how the Republicans plan to pursue this, Dana, investigate further, demand more records from the Justice Department and expect some subpoenas if they don't get compliance.

BASH: Manu, a great reporting as always in very important context that you just provided. Thanks so much Manu. And here in the studio to share their reporting CNN's David Chalian, Leigh Ann Caldwell of The Washington Post, and Zolan Kanno-Youngs of The New York Times. Thanks so much for one and all.

You just heard McCarthy kind of sum up what we are also hearing from a slew of other House Republicans, including powerful chairman with gavels who have subpoena power. I want to go to the campaign trail though. We've gotten a few statements in from Republican candidates and I'll read some of them starting with Ron DeSantis.

Looks like Hunter received a sweetheart deal. We just heard that term and is not facing any charges on the massive corruption allegations if Hunter was not connected to the elite D.C. class, he would have been put in jail a long time ago.

Nikki Haley, this plea deal only raises further questions about Hunter Biden's crimes and the double standard of justice and our federal government. There is clearly a lot more the Biden family has to answer for. And Donald Trump on his own social media platform. Wow! The corrupt Biden DOJ just cleared up hundreds of years of criminal liability by giving Hunter Biden a mere traffic ticket. Our system is broken.

[12:20:00]

I don't understand the hundreds of years of criminal liability, but we'll put that aside from now. David Chalian, what is your assessment of kind of the political moment that we are in right now?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think you're hearing the same words being used across the board here because there's a script here for Republicans to echo what they are hearing from Republican base voters. What is happening inside the right wing, Republican ecosphere, if you will, which is that one of the animating principles for the Republican electorate right now in the modern day Republican Party is this notion of a two tiered system of justice, the weaponization of the Justice Department, of not everyone being treated equally, and of course, of the elite versus you, the little guy, and all of that gets encompassed in this.

And so, you see, across the board, no matter what kind of Republican presidential candidate, you are, Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, they're not exactly in the same camp on things, even Asa Hutchinson, who hasn't been like them on a bunch of other things. They're all singing from the same song sheet here of this is worthy of investigation. And this is evidence of not everyone being treated equally, and that will continue to fuel that animating force among Republicans.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, absolutely. And I think what's interesting is, it's almost like this is chapter two have a major theme of this election, which is going to be portraying when it comes to the Republican narrative, portraying the Justice Department as partisan, started out with the federal indictment of Trump. And now you're going to see them also seized on this deal to continue those accusations.

And it's a difficult position for the White House because even in chapter one, if you will, with a federal indictment, you didn't really hear the White House forcefully come out and defend and try to rebut those statements because they also know that any statement they make will fuel a perception that the White House and the Justice Department aren't connected here.

So, now you have another situation where you're going to have Republican candidates continue to make these accusations. The White House can't really come out and forcefully rebut them or defend the actions of the Justice Department, because there is a strategy to say, look, that institution is independent, we're not going to speak on behalf of them. The result may be Republicans controlling the narrative. BASH: Yes. And as much as we understand the politics, and we're explaining and giving context around the politics, we also should talk about the facts, which are that it was a Trump appointed U.S. attorney in in Delaware, intentionally kept there by Joe Biden, because he knew this investigation was going on. And that these cases are quite different.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, EARLY 202 CO-AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes. They're absolutely different. And when Republicans talk about, they leave out a lot of facts in each instance, that kind of walk around and dance around to make it seem like these are similar, but these are obviously apples and oranges cases. You talked about chapter one and chapter two. I'm going to go to the preface.

I guess, where John Durham is on the Hill, testifying today and tomorrow, and a public hearing tomorrow, where they're going to go in the way back machine and talk about the 2016 campaign and an investigation and talk about his report, where he found that there was no politicization, no criminal activity by the FBI when it came to Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump in the 2016 campaign. But Republicans are going to use this also as a platform to talk about the two-tiered system of justice, and that everything is rigged against Donald Trump.

BASH: And you mentioned, and David, as I bring you in, you mentioned, the sort of pickle, the political pickle that the Biden team is in. But one thing that he has been pretty consistent about his defense of his son, as a father. Just listen to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, 46TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I have great confidence in my son. I love him, and he's on a straight and narrow, and he has been for a couple of years now. And I'm just so proud of him.

STEPHANIE RUHLE, NBC NEWS HOST, THE 11th HOUR: I mean, your son, while there's no ties to you, could be charged by your department of justice. How will that impact your presidency?

PRES. BIDEN: First of all, my son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: Yes. I would imagine when we do hear from the president on this, we're going to hear now perhaps the line, he's done nothing wrong, since apparently, Hunter Biden has now admitted or will be pleading guilty to having done something wrong and violation of the federal law. But I do think you're going to hear the fatherly support for a son here. There is no doubt about that.

BASH: Yes. And I don't want to miss the forest through the trees here. I mean, this is a day of history, that the son of a sitting president admits to any federal crime at all, whether it's a misdemeanor or not, is going to be a note for the history books. So OK, guys, standby, because up next, you're going to want to see this. We have a brand-new CNN poll. It's the first time that we have a real read of the 2024 race after the federal indictment of Donald Trump and it reveals some facts for being. And the former president's grip on his party. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

BASH: Now to breaking news, CNN poll numbers. A post federal indictment snapshot of the Republican race shows Donald Trump still leads but that he has a big vulnerability. Several of them actually among Americans, even those in his own party.

I want to get straight to CNN political director David Chalian at the magic wall. David, walk us through these fascinating new numbers?

CHALIAN: Yes, Dana. We are seeing a bit of softening in Donald Trump's support among Republican and Republican