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Debris Field Found In Submersible Search Area. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 22, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is the first time that we have had in several days other than this the news of that banging or noise that was coming, that there was somebody down there that there was something definitive to say about what has happened to the Titan and where it is and how its five passengers are.

But look, they -- the debris field could be as simple as something that the Titan or other submersibles that have gone down there have dropped previously, it could, or it could be the Titan itself. And it may lead to, you know, the rescue efforts that's going on now, to even step-up pace even more.

There is that sense that the window is closing because of the oxygen levels on that craft and the gear finally getting into shape. They do have remote operated vehicles that are now able to get to depth down to the bottom that they can physically lay eyes on things. So hopefully, we will have more information very soon.

The Coast Guard typically does their press conferences around 1pm eastern time. They push that back a little later today. So that may indicate that they have -- they're trying to gather information and trying to understand exactly what is happening down there, and what they have -- what they have found. And by that time, hopefully, maybe they will have laid eyes on something, and we will have a much clearer picture of what's happening to two and a half miles beneath the surface of the ocean.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: And Miguel, I just want to read for our viewers what the Coast Guard put out on Twitter. They said, a debris field was discovered within the search area by a ROV near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information. So just so we're clear on exactly what they know and what they don't know.

And as you are making it pretty clear to our viewers, there are still lots of questions to be answered about what they believe that they saw. But just to kind of give our viewers a sense of where they are right now, Miguel. 96 hours of oxygen. That's how much they had.

And we're talking about a two-hour descent on Sunday morning, June 18. It is now Thursday. We've all been doing the math and watching to see what we could potentially learn. So, give our viewers a sense of the stakes at this hour on this day, Thursday when they went down on Sunday.

MARQUEZ: So, they've clearly eclipsed that time, from Sunday to Thursday that so -- that's 96 hours. We're just over that mark now. But people who have been on that craft, people who know OceanGate, and Rush Stockton and PH Nargeolet. More importantly, who is on that craft as well.

Extremely able oceanographer very, very capable, deep ocean diver knows exactly what to do in these situations. Their belief is that from the moment from moment on, if they got into a catastrophic situation, and they were still alive from moment on, they would have known preserving oxygen was the most important thing they could do, because they may have to be down there for several days.

It is the conditions would be horrendous pitch black, freezing cold, and dwindling oxygen, all three of those things make for sort of a nightmare scenario. But if they're able to stay calm, sleep, use as little oxygen as possible, continue to use the carbon dioxide scrubber which according to people who have been on that before. They all learn how to use that they might be able to survive beyond that 96-hours.

So, but the window is closing, and you can tell searchers can consents that, can feel that. If the amount of gear that's come in here to St. John's that's moved out of here in the last couple of days. And now that they're getting to the sea floor and actually trying to see get their eyes on what is down there. And then -- once they find it, getting it from there to the surface is going to be a herculean task as well. So, all these pieces have to come together. And it looks like we maybe, we'll have more information shortly.

BASH: OK. Miguel, thank you so much for that. Standby. Let us know if you hear anything of course. I want to bring in Maximilian Cremer, director of the ocean technology group at the University of Hawaii Marine Center. So, what does this tell you the Coast Guard's tweet the information that they found debris?

MAXIMILIAN CREMER, DIRECTOR, OCEAN TECHNOLOGY GROUP, UNIV. OF HAWAII MARINE CENTER: Well, I would not be surprised to find a debris field near the wreck of the Titanic. We'll have to see what it actually is that the ROV transmit any images.

BASH: And that's really key. We don't want to sort of tamp down on hope, but we also don't want to get hopes up that maybe -- shouldn't be there. You understand that area, you understand what is and is not in the ocean to be found. It could be anything. Having said that, the Coast Guard knows that. They know that there was a lot of debris. So, does it tell you anything that they made a point to put out a tweet and to let people know that they found something?

[12:05:00]

CREMER: Well, it could tell me that somebody saw something within that debris that they have, I guess on camera or on sonar, that lets them assume that it might not be from the Titanic, that it might be from the stricken vessel. Debris field is never good if you had somebody sitting in it. But I'm sure they're now going through a verification process to see if it's actually associated with the stricken sub.

BASH: Yes. That's exactly what the Coast Guard says that it is doing right now. I want to go back to the oxygen, which is, you know, part of the ballgame here, and as far as we know, and you heard our reporter on the ground. Miguel Marquez talking about the 96-hour oxygen limit, that we're past that but that people who are trained, and several of those who are on this certainly have experience that they know how to extend the life of that 96-hour limit beyond what it normally should or could have for people to survive.

CREMER: Yes, that's absolutely correct. What do you have five souls in there. Certainly, you would assume that during the period where the casualty occurred, whatever failure it was, that you would have some excitement and some panic going on for a brief period of time. And that can bring down your oxygen level quite rapidly.

If you then have a strong leader, I assume PH Nargeolet, as well as Stockton Rush, are those, you have to insist that everybody goes down into a sort of hibernation state and uses as little as little oxygen as possible. You could possibly reduce the percentage, the fraction of oxygen in the atmosphere maybe down to 18, maybe even 17 percent.

Of course, you have to deal with the CO2 that everybody's exhaling. My understanding is, and I'm not familiar with their construction and their design features, but my understanding is that they're using these fairly recently developed lithium hydroxide blankets that are extremely efficient at scrubbing dioxide, they may have a large supply there, maybe that's not a concern to them to get rid of the CO2. So yes, I mean, of course, live support is what it's all about.

BASH: OK. Thank you so much for that expertise. Please stay with us as we continue to learn more. Hopefully, we will learn more about the Coast Guard's tweet and the information that they're trying to gather. And to verify Paula Newton, you are there for us as well. What are you hearing from your sources?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dana, and good afternoon. We're here at the Halifax Coordination Center. It coordinates the rescue efforts ongoing between the Canadian military, the Canadian Coast Guard and the U.S. Coast Guard. Now look, Dana, just in the last hour, we received an update from them, saying that they really felt that they had a lot of assets, both on the sea and crucially in the air, Dana. And that issue was to be able to continue to drop those sonar buoys to try and hear those noises.

What was also interesting here was that they had sent out the HMCS Glace Bay. What does that have a full medical team specialized in trying to treat people immediately, who may be had oxygen deprivation or any other medical complications as you can imagine, that you would have had from being on that submersible for so long.

Again, we all await the update in the next couple of hours and the U.S. Coast Guard, they will give us more information in terms of what this debris field means. Certainly, Canadian officials aren't prejudging it at, all that -- remember, they don't have a human being down there, right? It went down there with the remote vehicle. That means everything that is found by those cameras needs to then be analyzed likely by the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard and other international experts to determine exactly what it is. It may not have anything to do with the Titan. And that is why at this hour, Dana, I can tell you that this search continues, both underwater in the sky and unsurfaced of the sea in case, in case that Titan did still reach the surface of the water.

BASH: That is such an interesting bit of information there that, while members of the Coast Guard are trying to evaluate what this record is that they have found, the search and they hope rescue mission is very much underway.

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NEWTON: Absolutely, they don't want to prejudge any of it because they do not have any human intelligence on this yet, right? They send down those remote vehicles. They do as best they can. Whether it's the noise, isn't the banging sound or anything that the cameras from that remote vehicle is feeding back. They want to make sure 100 percent they know what it is.

This is a Titanic wreck site. That's though the so-called water column, where they sent that remote vehicle down, the one that could actually get to 13,000 feet. So that would be the likely place where Titan would be. But then again, they've made other voyages there before.

And for that reason, perhaps there is some kind of debris that they will get their eyes on, and they will be able to either say conclusively that it is not Titan or say that conclusively it is. That is what they are awaiting in the hours to come. And as you rightfully say, Dana, in the meantime, that rescue effort continues and continues to the point that they are ready to surface five individuals and bring them immediately onto HMCS Glace Bay, and treat them medically, if that's what they need.

BASH: OK. Standby, Paula. I want to go now to Jason Carroll, who was at the Coast Guard headquarters. Jason, this is -- this whole discussion is coming from the Coast Guard itself. The Coast Guard announcing that discovered this debris. Go ahead?

Jason Carroll: Right. And again, Dana, just to repeat what, some of what Paula was saying. Again, the tweet going out just a short while ago from the Coast Guard saying, quote, a debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV. That's one of the remote operated vehicles that you heard Paula speaking about, near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information.

And again, it's a dramatic tweet. But we have to be clear that we are uncertain at this point, exactly what this debris field is. Clearly, it's picking a lot of interests because of where it was found. And this is now why we have to wait to hear from the Coast Guard to hear what they're going to be able to tell us about whatever this ROV has discovered. Now, at three o'clock, just a few hours from now, Rear Admiral John Mauger will be conducting the briefing. I can tell you as we've been out here for these briefings all throughout the week, he has not been present for those briefings, but he will be here today.

Again, just to recap, 96 hours ago was when the Titan went into the water, today was the day that the by all estimates they were running out of oxygen. And so, you can understand why this -- when this tweet went out, it piqued a great deal of interest. But again, we have to be just -- we just have to be very certain about this. We can't say for certain at this point, exactly what that debris field is.

We should also -- it's worth just noting again who was on board. The Titan's Stockton Rush, CEO from OceanGate, British Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman. Paul-Henri Nargeolet a French national, also Hamish Harding, British billionaire. So, at this point, waiting to see what the Coast Guard is going to be able to tell us. We are here at Coast Guard headquarters. That briefing now will be getting underway just hit about three o'clock. Dana?

BASH: Jason, before I let you go, and again, I want to be as cautious as you are being rightly so, because we don't know what this debris is. But having been there on the ground, having been talking to Coast Guard officials as you have been throughout this, Jason.

Is this the most sort of clear information that you've gotten from them? I mean, I don't remember seeing a tweet like this. And the fact that you said that, that John McGraw is coming out, the commander is coming out. Be careful not to speculate. But just to give context to our viewers. This seems to be a different -- a different strategy, a different move by the Coast Guard, is that correct?

CARROLL: Different strategy, different move, certainly a different time. If you want to look at that, normally these briefings that we've attended, Dana, have been at one o'clock every day, pretty much like clockwork. Today, this morning felt different. You know, repeatedly calling and saying, when can we get some updated information. It was a standby, standby, standby.

And then once they released that they were going to be having this press conference a little bit later, and that the rear admiral would be the one conducting it. Obviously, that piqued our interest as well. You know, we've been talking all week about these ROVs, these remotely operated vehicles.

Again, just to recap what these can do? They can go to deeper depths. Again, the Titanic when you think about it, could be anywhere from about two miles to two and a half miles deep, you know, 13,000 feet below sea level. They are remotely operated. They have cameras on board with a robotic arms, again that are remotely controlled.

[12:15:00]

And so, one has to wonder what this -- what role is ROV played? What they were able to see? What they are able to analyze? But certainly, by putting out that tweet, to say that they found debris, to say that they found debris near the Titanic. And again, following it up by delaying the press conference until three o'clock, and then by saying that the rear admiral would be the one conducting the press conference today, certainly piqued a lot of our interest.

BASH: The rear admiral. Thank you so much for that, Jason. Standby. We're going to go now to Gabe Cohen, who is also on this story. Gabe, you are familiar with this vessel. A lot of safety concerns about it.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dana. That's right. And again, I want to reiterate. We still don't know what this debris field is. We have to hope it's not a worst-case scenario. But I can go through with you that there have been quite a few safety concerns around the Titan vessel that was built and finished back in 2018. We do know that two former OceanGate employees had raised concerns, safety concerns about the actual structure of the Titan, specifically about a toll and how thick that carbon fiber and titanium hole was.

We understand CNN spoke with one of those former OceanGate employees who said that, when the hole arrived, it was only five inches thick rather than seven inches thick as that employee says. They had been assured. The other former staffer during a counter lawsuit, alleged that the Titan hadn't gone through the proper non-destructive testing to make sure that structure was actually sound and could handle the pressure that it would face down at 13,000 feet where the Titanic is.

Both of those employees said that those concerns were raised to OceanGate management, even to the CEO Stockton Rush, and were largely dismissed. We've reached out to OceanGate about those claims. So far, there's been no response. And we also have obtained a 2018 letter, Dana, that was written by the head of a submersible organization that really warned about OceanGate, as they described an experimental approach to this vessel that they said could have catastrophic consequences.

And the big concern was that the vessel wasn't certified. And that it hadn't -- it wasn't certified by an industry group that isn't that I hadn't gone through independent testing in front of an independent third party, industry specialist. Those are not required, according to experts to actually do these types of dives in international waters.

But from the experts I've spoken with, they are an industry standard. In fact, the person who penned that letter, who I spoke with Will Coenen (Ph) who heads that submersible organization. He told me that there are only 10 submersibles in the world that can make that type of dive and this is the only one that isn't certified. Dana?

BASH: Wow. That's an incredible bit of information. And just the fact that the initial way that the pilot steers the sub is using a video game controller. There is a backup apparently, but a video game controller. I mean, I don't know to me that screams red flags. Go ahead.

COHEN: Yes. And to be clear, OceanGate has touted its use of some off the shelf components, but they had said that they did not cut any corners when it came to the actual structure of that pressure vessel where those five passengers would be sitting inside of. They said that was critical not to cut any corners on that. They said it was state of the art, Dana?

BASH: OK. That's an important fact to underline, certainly, their position. Thank you so much. We will get back to you as well as we wait for the Coast Guard to give us more information as they evaluate the debris that they found. I want to go back to Miguel Marquez. Miguel, can you kind of recap or set the scene and set the table for us on where we are at this moment?

MARQUEZ: Yes. I mean, today was a critical day because that window is closing for how much air they may have in that sub submersible. The gear from around the world that has arrived here in St. John's is also getting on the scene there and they're able to get down to the surface. There is very sophisticated sonar gear as well.

I mean, keep in mind, this is an area that they have gone over many times in maps many times, so they know what debris is down there. They know what other missions have left behind. They know what the Titanic looks like down there. So, they must have seen something that was different. This really kicked off.

We started to hear among even people here and who know OceanGate and they've gone down. We started to hear that something was possibly found. Then the Coast Guard tweeting a short time ago, a debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV or remote operated vehicle near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information. And then they say, they're going to give more information at the next press briefing.

[12:20:00]

It's not being received as good news. One of the concerns among people who know this craft, this submersible and OceanGate. You know, they do say that there was a beacon exterior to the craft itself that should have been pinging its location. The fact that it wasn't isn't very good news for people who know this.

The other way that they could communicate was from the craft itself. But all of that relies on energy and power coming from the craft. There was no redundant system, essentially, to send out messages and get that information from the craft through that very deep water to the surface.

So, there's great concern with this latest news. It doesn't feel good at the moment, given what they were hoping to find down there. But I think everybody now going to be looking to the U.S. Coast Guard to figure out what it is they're seeing down there. I don't think they would say they had found a debris field, if it was something that they knew was -- that they knew that was possibly something that was down there from a previous mission or from the Titanic itself.

They do have a pretty good picture of this. They have a lot of sonar gear out there, side sonar and other types of sonar. They can get a picture of the seafloor there. So, they must have found something, and most people here are interpreting it is not very good news, unfortunately. But you know, search and rescuers at this point at least saying, it is still a search and rescue, Dana? BASH: Hey, Miguel, standby for us. And I want to welcome our viewers, our international viewers from around the world. Now as we watch and try to learn what is happening with this very much -- is very much of an international story has international implications for the short term because of who is on board.

Stephen McGinley is the author of The Dive: The Untold Story of the World's Deepest Submarine Rescue. So, let's just pick up where Miguel left off, talking about what the Coast Guard has said and trying to read the tea leaves on their statement.

STEPHEN MCGINLEY, AUTHOR, THE DIVE: THE UNTOLD STORY OF THE WORLD'S DEEPEST SUBMARINE RESCUE: I think that anyone hitting the news that the Coast Guard has put out that remote operating vehicle has found a debris field, the natural conclusion would be that the Titan that the submarine has got to a certain depth who suffered some kind of catastrophic depressurization, which has led to the submarine effectively collapsing like a tin can.

And I mean, that is the -- that would be the deepest fear effectively, which would mean that it will soon be moving to a recovery phase of the process because no one could survive that. And I mean, that's one option that is to be optimistic about it, is potentially to read that, it's said to be field related to something else, as one of your other contributors said, and that the submarine is intact at some other location, and what there then it could still potentially be recovered.

But clearly, at a time where the oxygen window so to speak, has already closed and it would be then dependent on them, finding some way to extend the oxygen in the vessel. But even then, if they would have to find them, they would have to secure them, then we'd have to winch them two miles to the surface. So, I think the fact that was looking exceptionally bleak.

BASH: So, the term debris field in the Coast Guard's tweet that to you is a big statement, a big term.

MCGINLEY: Well, yes. The conclusion from hearing that would be that the submarine has collapsed and has been destroyed. I mean, that's what you would expect someone to take from that. Clearly, they could come back later on and say, we meant A, B or C, but that would be -- that's what you would take from that is that the submarine has been turned into debris as a pertain, you know, that's what they found something that would indicate that that's not obviously not confirmed in, but we're just -- if you're just asking what you would take from the information and is clearly not good.

BASH: What are the most important questions that you want answers on from the Coast Guard when they brief at three o'clock eastern?

MCGINLEY: I think people would want to know is, and when they see a debris field has the remote operated vehicle, which they would have been watching from the cameras and filming the way they did 50 years ago at the risk of Pisces 3D. They had live footage coming up to the surface. What have they seen that connects the debris to the submarine? There's missing that would be the first question I would ask.

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And secondly, you know, are they continue to look elsewhere? That would be the key part is that. What have they seen that connects that separates the debris that the existing to be the stone there from other trips and from the Titanic. To put that statement out, we'd have to indicate that there's some connection to the submarine and what is the -- have the phone that piece of the submarine that they're aware of and different pieces of it? That would be the key question.

BASH: Because it sounds like you're saying it's not uncommon to find debris in the middle of the ocean, particularly near the side of the Titanic.

MCGINLEY: Yes, yes, absolutely. There's obviously going to be parts of the ship and they would know that too. So, I suppose the question is, is why? I mean, one way you could argue this as, why would you put out a tweet that it doesn't qualify itself? I know, Twitter is got longer, but they could put some kind of qualifying statements.

If they're going to put out those kind of images. I mean, are they clearly the preparing people? Or I would argue that the potential reading of this is that the preparing people for the worst. And I think that's the only way to read it.

BASH: Stephen, standby. I want to go back to Coast Guard headquarters. That's where our correspondent Jason Carroll is. Jason, what are you -- there you go, Jason. What are you learning at this hour?

CARROLL: Well, a few things. Again, you heard so many of the questions that were raised there by the last guest that you were speaking to. These are some of the many questions that we are going to have for the rear admiral when he begins the press briefing, which is scheduled to get underway here at three o'clock.

Again, U.S. Coast Guard tweeting out that a debris field has been found near the Titanic. They are analyzing the debris. But there are so many indicators here that this is something significant, simply because first and foremost, we've got the rear admiral who's going to be speaking about this. Because in the past, when we were out here for briefings, it was one of the captains here who was conducting the briefings before that.

Again, the U.S. Coast Guard saying that an ROV one of the remotely operated vehicles came across the debris field. These ROVs which Dana, we've been speaking about for the past few days are equipped with cameras, equipped with robotic arms. And when you think about the Titanic, you think about those who have been down there before.

I mean, this is a deep area of the ocean, some two miles or so down beneath the surface and 13,000 feet below the surface. It's a dark, desolate area. But it's an area that has been mapped, that has been clearly sort of indicated in the past. People who have been down there, there hasn't been that many. They know what's down there. They know what they're looking at. And so, logically thinking, if a Coast Guard is going to put out a tweet like that, one would have to think that they know what they're looking for when they get down there. But once again, we have no confirmation of exactly what this debris field is. But it is significant that the Coast Guard put that out and put it out in the way that they did and in the manner that they do.

BASH: Such an important point, Jason, all of the parts of the ocean floor that have been explored that a map and it's -- I just learned in that -- looking at the research here, it's only 20 percent of ocean floor, which is rather small. But this is maybe one of the most, if not the most highly trafficked areas because of the Titanic. So, Coast Guard officials, others who are experts in and around the site are very familiar with what was there before the Titan went down?

CARROLL: Right. And that's correct. And remember when the Titan went down, four days ago, 96 hours ago, from the surface, even if you account for currents and movements and things like that, because we know it's a vast area, desolate area of the ocean. They are searching in a finite area of the ocean, if you will.

Even though we've been talking about search planes that have been out there, looking from the skies. These ROVs looking below the surface. They're searching in a finite area. And so, once again, logically thinking, you know, when you put out a tweet saying, we found a debris field, we are analyzing it. Knowing also, Dana, that the families of all of these five people on board are listening and are paying close attention.

The Coast Guard made it very clear when we were out here yesterday, that that they are in close contact with the families. And so, one would have to think if you're putting out a tweet like that, knowing that families and family members are going to be seeing it, watching it. That also plays into this as well.

BASH: It sure does. And it sure should. Thank you for that, Jason. I want to bring back Maximilian Cremer, director of the ocean technology group at the University of Hawaii Marine Center.

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