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Whistleblower: Hunter Biden Invoked Dad's Name In Text; House Conservatives' Hardball Tactics Anger Moderates, Leave McCarthy In The Middle; Christie Booed At GOP Conference For Slamming Trump. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 23, 2023 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They say that David Weiss, the Trump appointee who ran this case, was not the final decider despite what you've heard. And now the Justice Department says that's not true. That -- and by the way, David Weiss himself in a letter to Congress says that's not true. That he was the final decider.

And look, I think, you know, Carrie can speak to this too, is that, you know, it's not uncommon for agents to be like, we want to be more aggressive.

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.

PEREZ: And for prosecutors to say, well, this is the better deal.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Well, that's exactly what I was going to ask you.

CORDERO: Yes.

BASH: Is that -- I mean, how many times as agencies -- maybe even inter-agencies --

PEREZ: Right.

BASH: -- are trying to figure out how to come down on charges against somebody. Do they have disagreements --

CORDERO: Yes.

BASH: -- along the way, all the time?

CORDERO: All the time.

BASH: Yes.

CORDERO: All the time. I mean, this is the way -- this is part of the process. This is the way that it works.

BASH: And it's what we want.

CORDERO: It is not at all unusual. It is a normal course of business that you can have a circumstance where investigators, whether that's IRS investigators, whether that's FBI investigators, or any of the other law enforcement, federal law enforcement folks within the Justice Department, agencies where they are really invested in their case.

They've been spending all their time in this case. They know the facts inside and out, and they're invested --

BASH: Yes.

CORDERO: -- in seeing that case through.

PEREZ: Right.

CORDERO: And they might disagree with the line prosecutors and the line prosecutors might disagree with senior officials at the Justice Department.

BASH: And so what we've been talking about is a DOJ problem, not a Hunter Biden problem per se.

PEREZ: Right.

BASH: Something that happened within the investigation. In addition to that, the whistleblowers produced, what they say is a Hunter Biden WhatsApp message saying, "I'm sitting here with my father", Joe Biden, "and we would like to understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled. I will make certain between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you'll regret not following my direction. I'm sitting here waiting for the call with my father".

That looks very damning. I should also note the date there, July 20th, 2017. And what Hunter Biden has said over and over again is that at that time, he had a very serious crack addiction.

PEREZ: He did have a very serious drug problem. And 2017, it also matters because Joe Biden is no longer vice president. He's also not running. I mean, at this point --

BASH: Yes.

PEREZ: -- it's believed that he is out of politics, right? Everything indicates he's done with politics. And so the question is, you know, what does this mean really for, you know, the Republican accusations that this means Joe Biden was corrupt?

I don't think this proves that. However, listen, the President, Joe Biden, has repeatedly said, I've never spoken to my son about his business dealings. And so the question is, does this message show that Joe Biden was there? Was he actually sitting there? The agents, by the way, say they don't know. They don't know whether Joe Biden was actually there.

But what they say is that they believe they did not, they were not permitted to fully explore this, to fully investigate all aspects of this. And this is where, of course, Republicans say, well, we'll do that.

BASH: Yes. A September 22nd, 2019, Joe Biden, I've never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings.

OK, thank you so much for that. Appreciate it.

More on INSIDE POLITICS after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:51]

BASH: A House divided. New CNN reporting today that the power struggle between the House's most conservative members and other Republicans who say that they just want to govern is getting bigger. And who's caught in the middle? The House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us from Capitol Hill with his new reporting. Manu, what are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of frustration among -- particularly among some of the more moderate members who are seeing a handful of members on the far-right of their conference really drive the agenda and change the leadership strategy and their parties messaging and agenda since the passage of the debt limit law that a lot of those members on the far-right did not like.

Initially, they essentially paralyzed the House for about a week during the month of June. That essentially led the Speaker to agree to deeper spending cuts that many would like. And then more recently, forcing a vote to censure Adam Schiff. That was pushed by one hard- right member, Anna Paulina Luna, as well as moving to try to impeach Joe Biden.

That ultimately led to a lot of back and forth. Speaker McCarthy, ultimately, had to cut a deal to put this -- to kick this into the committee process. But in talking to some of the members, including one Congressman Don Bacon, raising concerns, Dana, that this could potentially cost them the majority next year if they decide not to, if these members don't back off these tactics down.

BASH: Absolutely fascinating reporting. Manu, thank you so much for sharing it.

And today, a loud example of just how difficult it is to try to take down Donald Trump. Chris Christie closed out his speech by saying he's running because the former president failed Republicans. Listen to the reaction he got.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm running because he's let us down. He has let us down because he's unwilling. He's unwilling to take responsibility for any of the mistakes that were made, any of the faults that he has and any of the things that he's done. And that is not leadership, everybody. That is a failure of leadership. And I -- you could boo all you want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:00]

BASH: Here with me now, Chris Christie, who literally just came here --

CHRISTIE: I did.

BASH: -- from the Faith and Freedom Conference where you made that speech. That must not have been easy to get booed, but you probably were not surprised.

CHRISTIE: Look, and half the room was clapping also. And so, it was a real mixed bag. But look, I knew that's what was going to happen when I accepted the invitation, but I'm not changing my message and pandering to anybody. I'm going to tell the truth. The truth matters, Dana. And I'm telling the truth about Donald Trump.

And I said outside afterwards that, you know, either he's a liar or he's stupid because he said in an interview yesterday that he never trusted me. Well, he offered me White House Chief of Staff. So either he's a liar that he never trusted me or anybody who would offer White House Chief of Staff to somebody who they don't trust is stupid.

But one or the other, these are issues of character. And in the end, my message today to the Faith and Freedom Coalition is, I love the people that are there. They cared deeply about our country. And I wanted to tell them the truth. And the truth is, he's not a man of character. And they know it.

BASH: Do they know it? Because they --

CHRISTIE: Yes. They do.

BASH: So then why would they boo you and talk over and over about how wonderful Donald Trump is?

CHRISTIE: Because he did some things while president, they agreed with. He appointed conservative Supreme Court justices. And I agree with that. Reinstituted the Mexico City Accord and I agree with that. So he did some things that they agree with, Dana.

But what I'm trying to say to them is, leadership is more than just a litmus test of boxes that you check. And if you listen to most of those speeches today, it was people trying to check boxes. I'm pro- life. I have a great pro-life record in New Jersey that I'm very proud of. But there can be a lot of issues that come in front of a president of the United States that you can't anticipate. Character matters.

BASH: So I'm going to ask you about abortion in a second, but was going to that forum and sticking to your message, as you said, being very aggressive against Donald Trump, is that why you did it? And is that basically why you're running to have moments like that, that you wouldn't be able to have if you were not a candidate?

CHRISTIE: No. The -- let's divide those two. The reason I did it was because I'm not going to change my message depending upon who I go in front of. That would be a lack of integrity and I won't do that. I went to Faith and Freedom because Ralph Reed has been a supporter of mine since 2009.

In 2009 when no one thought I could win the governorship, Ralph Reed came into New Jersey and supported us and helped us get elected in '09. So whenever Ralph invites me to something, I'm going to go because he's been a very good friend to me, and as has many of those people in that group.

But, look, you got to tell the truth, Dana. And this is what I believe and I believe it's what most of the country believes, and it needs to be said over and over again until it breaks through.

BASH: OK, let's talk about abortion. Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of the Dobbs decision that overruled -- overturned Roe versus Wade. Just this afternoon, you referred to yourself, yesterday afternoon, as an unabashed pro-life Republican. Also say that abortion should be up to the states.

I'm sure you're very well aware that the anti-abortion Susan B. Anthony Group says that leaving it to the states is not OK. That they believe in what Mike Pence talked about this morning, which is a national ban.

CHRISTIE: Look, for 50 years, we, as conservatives said that this shouldn't be decided by the federal courts and the federal government. It should be decided by each individual state. And let me be clear about what I'm for. I'm for each state having an opportunity and most importantly, that are the people of each state to engage in this debate and discussion on a very difficult and emotional issue.

And to have their say and have their state decide what the policies and their state is going to be. Then and only then after all 50 states do it, should the federal government take a look and see is there a consensus that is developed among the 50 states. And if there is a consensus, then the federal government can take a look at doing something.

But until you give the states their opportunity to do it, and the people in the states, we're not being true to what we said for 50 years post-Roe.

BASH: So you're not against a federal ban, you're just against doing it before each state looks at it.

CHRISTIE: I'm forgiving the states the opportunity to reach consensus. We don't know what the national consensus is, Dana. And I think -- and in an issue like this, what we need to get to is a national consensus.

Now, look, the people at Susan B. Anthony, I support them and they do a good job. But here's the thing. They're saying 15 weeks, maybe 15 weeks is where the national consensus will wind up being. But it's -- we're not there yet.

BASH: It's too soon.

CHRISTIE: We're not there yet. Let's let the states make these judgements. The governors, the legislatures, and the people of these states should have a right to weigh in.

BASH: So you just mentioned that you're close with Ralph Reed who supported you early when you first ran for governor. I want to read you what he said about one of the reasons he wants to have candidates like you, all the candidates come to this forum.

"We're certainly going to do everything we can to give our candidates a little bit of a testosterone booster shot and explain to them why they should not be on the defensive. Those who are afraid of it need to candidly grow a backbone." Did he give you a shot of testosterone and did he help you grow a backbone today?

[12:45:07]

CHRISTIE: I think I gave them a shot of testosterone and gave them some backbone today. You know, the fact is that there are a lot of people in that audience who were standing and cheering when I left, and there were some that were booing. But no one left wondering what I think, and no one left not hearing what I said about the insulting way that Donald Trump -- not only has treated me because I disagree with him -- but Rex Tillerson, Bill Barr, who he called a gutless pig last week.

Mark Milley, who he called pathetic and a blanking idiot. I mean, look, Dana, these are great Americans who served him and served the country. And when you disagree with Donald Trump, he calls you those kind of names. So he says he'd hire the best people, right? Well, it's one or the other.

Either he was dead wrong about all these people, including me, or he only is saying this stuff because we disagree with him. Either way, that's not character, that's not leadership. He's a loser.

BASH: One of the reasons you broke with him was because of of January 6th. CNN is reporting -- I know you just got here, so I'll just give you the gist of it -- new reporting that Special Counsel Jack Smith granted limited immunity to at least two GOP fake electors in exchange for their testimony in the January 6th probe.

And we're also hearing that he's using hardball tactics. And the overall pace of the investigation is picking up. You were a U.S. attorney, you understand how these federal investigations work. What does this say about where they are and do you think Donald Trump should be concerned?

CHRISTIE: Look, I think anybody who was involved in January 6th needs to be concerned. And as far as the way Jack Smith is operating it, it's hard to tell from just those things. But I think what you see is a serious investigation is going on, and that he's using all the tools in his toolbox to try to get to the truth. So granted limited immunity, I'm sure is what he thinks he needed to do to get to the truth. In the end, look, when you look at the documents case, whether you believe -- and there's some Republicans that believe he should not have been indicted because Hillary Clinton wasn't indicted, that's -- but justice is getting the facts out there and examining this guy's conduct, Donald Trump's, as he wants to be president of the United States again. And that conduct doesn't fit.

BASH: Please stand by, if you will. We're going to take a quick break and there's a lot more to talk about with Governor Chris Christie after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:38]

BASH: Minutes ago, the Attorney General of the United States Merrick Garland, defended the Justice Department's handling of the Hunter Biden investigation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Weiss was appointed by President Trump as the U.S. attorney in Delaware and assigned this matter during the previous administration would be permitted to continue his investigation. And to make a decision to prosecute any way in which he wanted to, and in any district in which he wanted to. Mr. Weiss has since sent a letter to the House Judiciary Committee confirming that he had that authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Governor Chris Christie is back with me now. Good timing to have you here --

CHRISTIE: Yes,

BASH: -- as a former U.S. attorney, obviously, you have your political and candidate hat on as well. But listening to him say that, especially in the face of -- and we know he said that because of so much Republican criticism and accusations that I don't believe that they have evidence of, that there was influence from Joe Biden, from the Biden Justice Department on the Hunter Biden plea deal.

CHRISTIE: Look, I have no idea whether there was influence or not, but I'm very convinced there was incompetence. I mean, look, I did these cases, Dana, OK? To do a simple tax and gun case. Five years to get to a conclusion is outrageous.

Whoever the AUSAs who were handling that for me when I was U.S. attorney, I would have fired him at two years. I mean, this is -- and so we got to wonder what was going on behind the scenes. And what else were they looking at that they chose not to bring charges on.

BASH: Well, that was -- that's it. I mean, isn't it possible, probable that it's not that they were just looking at a gun case and two tax charges that they were looking at, other allegations that they decided not to charge him on.

CHRISTIE: Look, they may have, but we need to know what the decision making was behind that. This is not a normal case. And, by the way, as you know, when I was U.S. attorney in New Jersey, I did 130 political corruption prosecutions without a defeat.

And it gets Republicans and Democrats, but here's -- when you do those cases, you have an additional obligation of transparency because the public needs to know what their elected officials were up to and why you decided -- I declined a big case one time and wrote an entire letter about why we declined it and why we didn't do it.

The public has a right to know this and we're seeing no transparency from the Justice Department. And given the way they handled this, there's not a reason for us to have a lot of faith in what the attorney judge says.

BASH: So, I think some people in DOJ would argue by the book is, to not reveal things that didn't turn out to be true because you don't want to go down the James Comey road. But you're saying --

CHRISTIE: Well --

BASH: OK, maybe that was a bad example. Don't go down the James Comey road with me.

CHRISTIE: I will.

BASH: OK. But when it comes to transparency, you think that it's a fair thing for somebody who was investigated, for the public to know what was investigated, even though it wasn't --

CHRISTIE: Well, you got to --

BASH: -- something that they felt was enough to be charged on?

CHRISTIE: You got to look, Dana, at the whole situation. This is not a situation where, what the allegations were secret. We have Hunter Biden's laptop, we have all of these text messages and emails, which had been revealed.

So I understand what they would be saying if the entire thing was up behind a curtain and no one saw it, and now you're revealing something people didn't know. There have been specific allegations that have been placed down into the public in large measure because of some real, you know, bad moves by Hunter Biden in terms of the way he dealt with his own personal information.

[12:55:07]

So we now know that. You can't act as if we don't know it. So you have to answer that as a prosecutor. And again, I love the Democrats and the hypocrisy. They want more gun laws, right? Yet they're not enforcing this gun law. They're not enforcing the gun law, which says, you cannot lie on an application for a gun permanent. And if you do, it's a felony. And I can't imagine that the Democratic Party who wants more and more gun laws and yells at Republicans for not having more, they won't enforce when they're in charge, the gun laws that are already on the books. And so I think the whole thing has been handled badly.

And I think Mr. Weiss looks, quite frankly, like an Hammond Egger. You know, Delaware's a very small office. It doesn't handle big cases. I think this guy looks like he was over his head.

BASH: Let me go again to new remarks from the Attorney General, pushing back on the idea that Republicans are saying that there are two tiers of justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARLAND: Understand that some have chosen to attack the integrity of the Justice Department as its components and its employees by claiming that we do not treat like cases alike. This constitutes an attack on an institution that is essential to American democracy and essential to the safety of the American people.

Nothing could be further from the truth. You've all heard me say many times that we make our cases based on the facts and the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: He's a mild, mild-mannered guy. That's intense for Merrick Garland.

CHRISTIE: Hey, look, is he telling me that he's warrantying all of the conduct of Eric Holder? All of the conduct of James Comey? All of the conduct of Loretta Lynch?

BASH: I think he can only speak for the time that he's been in charge.

CHRISTIE: Well his -- then his arguments are misplaced because what Republicans are saying, and I'm one of them, that he's saying Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted. I said that back in 2016. She should have been prosecuted.

And when she was not prosecuted for mishandling of those documents that Donald Trump was, that is, gives the appearance of two tiers of justice. Now, I'm not one of those people who then say, well, Trump should never be prosecuted and should get a pass because of bad conduct.

But he can't say, Dana, that the Justice Department never does that. Because then he's putting himself in the trap of warrantying and Loretta Lynch and James Comey and Jeff Sessions, which I don't think he wants to do.

BASH: So you're right that a lot of Republicans are saying what you're saying and they're bringing the Hillary Clinton into it. We're not going to go down into that discussion because a lot of people who were involved in the Hillary Clinton investigation don't agree with you, that it was worth prosecuting. But what Republicans are saying about the modern -- the Biden Justice Department is the two tiers are Donald Trump and Hunter Biden, which --

CHRISTIE: Well, look --

BASH: -- apples and oranges?

CHRISTIE: They're two very different cases.

BASH: Right.

CHRISTIE: But that's why I'm concerned about the transparency here. About what else did they look at, and what conclusions did they come to. Because it is a very public case and much of the information has gotten out into the public stream. And so they need and owe the American people an explanation. And Congress has the ability to exercise oversight on this as well, and I'm confident they will.

But my argument about the Justice Department is that under Loretta Lynch and Jim Comey, they made a decision that I think is completely inconsistent with what we would have done in the Bush Justice Department under John Ashcroft.

And so, they need to answer for that. And I don't think Merrick Garland by saying what he's saying is warrantying action, which I think is unwise for him to do.

BASH: Let's get back to your 2024 race.

CHRISTIE: Great.

BASH: And, one of your favorite topics, Donald Trump, because he -- yes, he went on television, but he also put out a video on, Truth Social, and he talked about you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Many say, don't punch down when talking about people like Chris Sununu or sloppy Chris Christie. You have to put them in their place. People like this are very destructive, and you have to tell the voters what it's all about. Otherwise, why should they be able to understand it? Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: A completely weak and ridiculous video. OK? First of all, the nicknames and all the rest, old, old movie. We're all sick of it, Donald. Move on.

Secondly, he didn't think I was such a dangerous person when he offered me White House Chief of Staff. He didn't think I was such a dangerous person. When he offered me Secretary of Homeland Security, when he offered me Secretary of Labor. He didn't think I was such dangerous person when he may be the chairman of the Opioid and Drug Abuse Commission or when he may be chairman of his presidential transition.

So, look, this guy tells whatever is convenient for him to tell at the moment, he wants to tell it. And because I'm making the case against him because I'm gaining steam and momentum, because these arguments getting a lot of attention, he wants to do that.

Let me tell you, we've got him on the run, we've got him scared, and if that's the kind of lame response he's going to give, bring more of it on Donald. I'm ready.

BASH: Unfortunately, we have a lot more to talk about, but we had a lot of breaking news, so we're out of time. We'll have you back soon, Governor.

CHRISTIE: Look forward to it.

BASH: Thank you so much for coming.

CHRISTIE: Thanks Dana.

BASH: And thank you for joining INSIDE POLITICS. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.