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Mercenary Chief Now Calling March On Moscow A "Protest"; DeSantis Vows To End Birthright Citizenship After Trump Failed To Fulfill Promise As President; Trump Expresses Openness To Federal Abortion Ban; Remembering Former CNN Exec David Bohrman. Aired 12:30- 1p ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

SEN. MARK WARNER (D), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: But remember, Prigozhin is actually under an indictment. He was the individual who ran one of his many companies, was the internet research agency --

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Right.

WARNER: -- that launched the interference in our 2016 elections. So it -- I also think what was happening is this was almost happening, hiding in plain sight. Prigozhin's comments about the leadership of the war in Ukraine, the leaders of the Defense Department and their General Chief of Staff Duresma (ph), you know, he had been beating on them for some time.

BASH: Right.

WARNER: I think it's remarkable that Putin, who has been so removed from the scene, so isolated, a Putin of 10 years ago, would never have allowed this to play out the way it did.

BASH: So what does that say to you about Putin's grip on power right now?

WARNER: Well, it says he's clearly weakened. It says the fact that you have a mercenary group that I don't think had full 25,000 troops the way Prigozhin claimed, but was able to literally march in to Rostov, a city of a million people, which was the commanding control for the whole Ukrainian war and take it over with barely a shot fired. That is unprecedented to say the least.

BASH: Do we know where Vladimir Putin is by we -- I mean the United States government?

WARNER: I have not had a brief today yet. But I think we are, at least as of a couple days ago or 48 hours ago, I think we were unsure where, not only where Putin was, but also -- and I know Prigozhin made some comments this morning -- but I'm not sure we even know where Prigozhin's location is.

BASH: While we're on this topic, do you -- have you been briefed on whether or not Vladimir Putin left Moscow as the Wagner mercenary group was headed towards that capital city?

WARNER: I have not been briefed on that yet.

BASH: OK.

WARNER: Although, I do think it's interesting that -- and we don't know whether -- what the Ukrainian government knew. But the fact that President Zelenskyy seemed to make quite a bit of hay over the weekend that when Kyiv was under assault, he stayed in and rallied his nation and rallied his forces.

BASH: You mentioned that we did hear from Yevgeny Prigozhin this morning, it was just an audio release, and what he said was that the reason why they were treated was because they were trying to avoid Russian bloodshed more specifically, that they weren't going to try to overturn and take power away from Vladimir Putin, but that it was merely a protest against the defense minister and the notion that his military group -- mercenary group was -- they were trying to fold it into the Russian military. Do you buy that?

WARNER: Well, I can buy what I actually saw with my own eyes on your network and others where you saw fireballs of explosions in some of those communities between Rostov and Moscow, when you saw reports of Russian helicopters being shot down. I'm not sure we've got actual video of that yet, but there may be a bit of rewriting history going on by I imagine a lot of folks.

BASH: So do you think that it was in fact an attempted coup?

WARNER: Listen, all I can point to is what we saw on the ground. If the idea that Prigozhin with his mercenary forces were able to take over where the command and control for the whole Ukrainian war was taking place, and then advanced within 120 miles of Moscow.

And again, we can believe what we saw with our own eyes in terms of some of the minimal but still damage that took place. It's awful hard to rewrite that as not some level of threat to the established order in Russia.

BASH: Do you have a sense of what this, quote unquote, "deal" that was brokered by the Belarusian President Lukashenko actually was? Meaning, was this a way for Putin to save face? And is that part of why we're hearing now that it was just a protest?

WARNER: Again, I think time will tell, but the fact that Putin that morning on Saturday was calling Prigozhin a traitor, using very strong terms. And that within four to five hours, Lukashenko somehow parachutes in. Lukashenko being a close ally of Putin --

BASH: Right.

WARNER: -- as a way to stop what would have clearly been some level of concentration as the Wagner forces got closer to Moscow. This felt like it was all happening very ad hoc, and I can only say that as an observer. BASH: OK. But you were part as, of course, Senate Intelligence Chairman, you were part of the so-called Gang of Eight briefing last week regarding this going conflict between Prigozhin and Putin. How accurate was that assessment from the Intel community about what actually played out?

WARNER: And as you know, unlike maybe some other folks in politics in America, I actually respect the fact that when things are top secret and classified, I honor that. But as I've said, you know, a lot of this anyone that was an observer of what was happening, Prigozhin's comments, his statements on Telegram, he's calling out of the whole Russian defense establishment.

[12:35:22]

And then on Saturday morning literally telling truth, the power, and I hope the Russian people heard this undermining all of Putin's fake reasons for going into Ukraine. That all played out in plain sight.

BASH: Yes. And I completely understand and respect the notion that it is classified. But let me get at it this way. As chairman of the Intelligence Committee, do you feel confident that American intelligence is all over what's happening despite the fact that we and the public might not know the answers to what is happening -- we are informed in the appropriate way given our intelligence community.

WARNER: Let me answer it this way. I think the American Intelligence Community, the British Intelligence Community was brilliant in the lead up to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. One pointing out to allies around the region who didn't believe that Putin was coming in with all of his forces that were willing to declassify information, which was really unique in American intelligence history to say, hey, there may be a coup and here's who the Russians are going to put in.

Or the Brits would then say, there may be a false flag operation where it appears that Russian soldiers are being killed when actually they were not. I think the American intelligence community got it right in terms of Putin's intentions.

BASH: OK. Chairman Mark Warner, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

WARNER: Hey, and Dana, just one last thing. Congratulations on being named host of Inside Politics.

BASH: Thank you, sir. Appreciate that.

WARNER: Thank you.

BASH: And Florida Governor Ron DeSantis unveiling his first formal campaign as a presidential campaign policy, rather, as a presidential candidate. And it comes as Trump polls even further ahead in the polls despite his indictment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:50]

BASH: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is at the southern border today where he promises to build that wall. He's rolling out his first major policy proposal of his presidential campaign focused on immigration and border security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some people on certain political persuasions that just dismiss it as kind of a Texas problem or an Arizona problem. But I'm here to tell you, when you don't have control of your own border, that's an American problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DESANTIS: What we're saying is no excuses on this. Get the job done, make it happen. We want results. We don't want hollow rhetoric. We don't want empty promises. And so when we go in on day one, we're going to marshal every bit of authority that we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here with me now to share their reporting, CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN's Manu Raju, and Margaret Talev of Axios. Hi everybody.

Let's start there with the governor's announcement. He wants to end birthright citizenship, which is exactly what the former president is vowing to do in his. Finish the border wall, which remember, the former president suggested to Kaitlan Collins that it was done, it is not done. And he has others like deporting undocumented people, consequences for sanctuary cities and so forth.

This is, obviously, the most --

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's --

BASH: -- one of the most important things that he's going to have to say in this race.

HENDERSON: Yes. And you can see him really kind of talking to and talking about Trump there.

BASH: Yes.

HENDERSON: Right? Saying, listen, it's not just about rhetoric, Donald Trump's rhetoric, was one of the reasons he's sort of caught fire around this -- around the immigration issue. You know, I mean, he's essentially running as sort of Trump, but somebody who can actually get it done Trump, but better.

I think if you look at how he's actually doing in the polls, he's at best maybe standing still, but maybe even sliding backwards because Trump is, in some ways, the closest thing to sort of an incumbent who's running in this race, and people want to give him former years possible. BASH: Well, and as we continue that conversation, let's look at a poll that came out over the weekend from NBC News. And it shows that he's not -- he, DeSantis, is not standing still, but he's sliding backwards a lot, nine points there. Another person who's not standing still in the polls is Donald Trump. He's gaining ground --

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BASH: -- despite, maybe because of two indictments.

RAJU: Yes. And look, and look at the rest of the field, they're so far behind. This has been really a remarkably steady race and certainly going in the wrong direction for DeSantis. His strategy all along has been, you're right, be the Trump who's with who can be someone who can actually deliver and try to suggest that Trump did not deliver on some of these key core promises.

The challenge for him, though, is on immigration, so much of the base aligns with him. And because all of his hardline rhetoric, yes, Trump didn't do everything he said like, build a border wall. Remember that whole thing about Mexico paying for it, whatever happened to that.

But they still -- the majority of voters, you look at the polls, Republican voters really believed that he did carry through on this key promise. So that's going to be a challenge for him.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, immigration is actually one of these issues where DeSantis and Trump have some potential to capture independent voters, swing voters. It is an issue that really resonates with people, concerns about national security at the border, the jobs concern, however, well founded.

[12:45:08]

One of the things DeSantis is talking about is states having the right to deport -- states should be able to deport if federal government won't. This is actually very complex and thorny legal issue.

The Supreme Court, the courts so far have ruled in case after case that this is an issue relegated, reserved for the federal government. So I think it's more a talking point than anything else. But between that and the birthright citizenship as they compete for the base, these GOP candidates are really trying to fundamentally change what it means to be an American who gets to decide who stays in America. There's some profound changes here wrapped in the rhetoric.

BASH: Profound changes. And you're right, he is trying to make it -- I mean, he said in that clip, this isn't a Texas or a Florida issue, this is a national issue. We also should remember that he was sending undocumented immigrants --

TALEV: From his state.

BASH: -- from his state to other states in the Interior of America.

All right, stand by, everybody. Donald Trump is changing his tune on abortion. What he said and why he said it is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:49]

BASH: He skirted the issue for months, but now Donald Trump is suggesting that he is open to a federal abortion ban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The greatest progress for pro-life is now being made in the states where everyone wanted to be. That's one of the reasons they wanted Roe v. Wade terminated, is to bring it back into the states where a lot of people feel strongly it should be. However, there, of course, remains a vital role for the federal government in protecting unborn life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Former president did not say what he wants that legislation to look like.

Our panel is back with us now. And Manu, you have been following this discussion about states or federal inside the halls of Congress, which is now spilling out to the campaign trail. This was kind of a big deal for the former president.

RAJU: My understanding is that his allies, those who wanted him to stake this out, particularly in recent times under pressure from his former vice president, who's trying to get all of the candidates for president and the Republican side to say that they won a national ban. He took a baby step, maybe even more than a baby staff towards that.

RAJU: Yes. And look, the reason why Republicans have been hesitant to embrace a national ban is because it opens them up to attacks from Democrats, could hurt them with key swing voters, suburban women, voters who Trump struggled with in the last election.

And look, this has been underscore is really the challenge of the Republican Party more broadly, which is after the Dobbs decision, they all wanted Roe to go away. It went away. But then what do you do now? And that has just been the debate that this party has still not been able to figure out a specific strategy. And you can tell that by Trump's comments.

Yes, he even now he endorses a front Roe ban, but so what? What next? He doesn't say what else he could support.

TALEV: Yes. I mean, look, you've seen what an important role abortion has played in helping Democrats in the midterms in places like Michigan, Wisconsin. Kansas, you know. So Ron DeSantis assigned a six- week ban in Florida. That makes him popular with the base in some cases, although it hasn't helped him close the gap with Donald Trump.

But in a general election, a lot of people think a six-week ban would be a huge problem. So what does vital role mean? It could mean anything. It could mean stuff the federal government already does. It could mean saying stuff from the bully pulpit. It doesn't actually mean anything, but it's a recognition that Trump felt that he needed to check the boxes.

HENDERSON: And likely he's going to have to do some more box checking on this. I think he's going to be pushed to say, what's the number of weeks that you would be OK with? A lot of people have been vague on this. Nikki Haley is like, oh, if there's some consensus that's reached in Congress, then sure, I'll sign on.

I think they're probably going to be a pushed a little bit more as well after Donald Trump comes out. But listen, this is the history of Donald Trump on abortion. He has had to be pushed into a position that he probably didn't instinctively want to have.

BASH: He definitely didn't. He was openly pro-choice.

HENDERSON: Exactly, exactly. And so --

BASH: Until he became a candidate.

HENDERSON: And even now politically, he knows this isn't a great issue for Republicans. He pretty much said that's one of the reasons why they did so poorly in 2022. You know, so he's here and we'll see how much further he goes and has to go.

BASH: And we should remind our viewers about CNN reporting Kristen Holmes and others reporting last week that privately the former president, he's telling people this -- if I become the nominee, this is not good for me. The notion of, as you were saying, Manu, both of you were saying, of supporting a national ban that this will make independence flee.

MANU: Yes. And look, this is his legacy --

HENDERSON: Yes.

RAJU: -- probably beyond anything else. He named those three Supreme Court justices. The end result was the end of Roe. And that's what's, no matter who wins this election, that is what will be the issue that people will remember Donald Trump for in large part.

BASH: All right. Thanks, everybody.

And coming up, we are going to honor a broadcast news legend, someone we were lucky to work with right here at CNN. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:59:23]

BASH: This weekend, our former CNN Washington Bureau Chief David Bohrman passed away, and we here at Inside Politics. Want to take a moment to remember him and honor his legacy. David was the creator of more news programming than almost any other producer working in television news today at ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, and of course, right here at CNN where he launched shows like The Situation Room and State of the Union.

He produced more than a dozen CNN presidential debates, and David discovered this. He discovered the Magic Wall. That's right, it was him. What you see John King using on election nights, that's technology that David found. And now pretty much every news organization benefits from David's creativity and innovation.

We are sending love to his wife, Catherine, his children, and his grandchildren. May his memory be a blessing.

Thank you so much for joining INSIDE POLITICS. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.