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Team DeSantis Gives Dour Assessment Of FL Gov's Prospects; Team DeSantis: We're "Way Behind" Trump; Top DeSantis PAC Official: "It's An Uphill Battle"; Pence Spends July 4th In Iowa, Trump Absent; RNC Debate Requirements Could Keep Many From Qualifying; Unclear If Trump Will Participate In GOP Debate; GOP Candidates Question RNC Loyalty Pledge. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 04, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, way behind a top Ron DeSantis official gives a blunt readout on the Florida governor standing in the 2024 race and the uphill fight to catch Donald Trump. New reporting this hour on why he said, well, he said.

Plus, Mike Pence is doing it today. Tim Scott is doing it. So is Ron DeSantis and Francis Suarez and even Doug Burgum, but Donald Trump, he's not. Most walk in July 4 parades, but not the former president. He's giving more evidence. He's running a very different kind of campaign.

And no labels, says they want to give voters a third-party alternative, but some critics wonder if what they really want is to not -- to deny Joe Biden the presidency.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start today with that old saying, honesty is the best policy. At first blush, that might seem like what an operative for the Ron DeSantis super PAC is doing, stating the obvious that things in the DeSantis campaign are not going so well.

Listen to Steve Cortes and his unsettling assessment of how his candidate is doing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE CORTES, POLITICAL CONSULTANT (voiceover): Look right now in national polling, we are way behind. I'll be the first to admit that. OK. I believe in being really and really honest. It's an uphill battle. I don't think it's an unwinnable battle by any stretch. OK. But clearly, Donald Trump is the is the runaway frontrunner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So why would Cortes do this? A source familiar with his intentions tells me, it's all about letting a fire under the struggling campaign. The super PAC can't legally coordinate with the campaign, going public, that's Cortes. More on that in a minute.

But let's first get right to the campaign trail. We start in Merrimack, New Hampshire, where CNN's Omar Jimenez. So Omar, how's it going on the campaign trail? I actually am very jealous that you're in New Hampshire on July 4.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, it's going to be a festive atmosphere. And what's more American than campaigning for president on the 4th July. So I feel like this is the place to be and it's what we're going to see over the course of today in Merrimack, New Hampshire. The parades getting ready to get started behind me here where we're going to see Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who actually already marched in a 4th July parade a little bit north of here in New Hampshire, greeting people, talking to some prospective voters as well.

Again, that on the ground presence that a lot of these candidates hope for on days like this. But when this one gets going, we're also going to be seeing South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, North Dakota Governor, Doug Burgum, former Texas Congressman Will Hurd, and all of them are essentially trying to gain ground on who has been the at least pulled frontrunner to this point and former President Donald Trump.

And I know you played some of the sound of the spokesman for the pro DeSantis super PAC. But along with that answer as well, he said part of that reasoning that Trump has gotten so far ahead is that people are coalescing or seem to be coalescing around the former president, given the legal troubles he's found himself.

And even after the most recent indictment down in Florida over President Trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents. I came here to New Hampshire and talk to some of his supporters to see if that indictment changed their minds in any way. If anything, it emboldened them. And that is the climate that a lot of these candidates are trying to break or at least make some sort of progress into. And I think that is why we are seeing their efforts here on the ground.

Someone like Ron DeSantis, he of course, has been pulling second way ahead of all the other candidates but still has been pulling double digits behind the former president, and we'll see if that road to at least some sort of parody can begin here on the 4th July.

BASH: Omar, thank you so much for that reporting. Have fun out there. And here to share their reporting CNN's Jeremy Diamond, CNN's Alayna Treene. and Tia Mitchell of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Happy Fourth. You got the red memo (crosstalk). Yes, exactly, exactly.

So, let's go back to these comments by Steve Cortes. You remember him from Trump world. He worked for Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020. Now he is an operative inside with Ron DeSantis super PAC. He made some waves by going public saying several things, but one of them was that Ron DeSantis is not doing so well.

So, the question is, why did he do this? I've seen new reporting, and it's the following that he made these public remarks to try to instill a sense of urgency among DeSantis campaign staffers, whom SuperPAC is not legally supposed to coordinate with. In the same vein, he tried to go out of his way to respect and complement the Trump base because he believes strategically DeSantis needs Trump converts to win.

[12:05:00]

You cover the Trump campaign. You talk to Trump supporters on the campaign trail. Do you think that this kind of messaging to try to get the DeSantis campaign basically to be kinder to Trump supporters. Will lower any of them to Ron DeSantis?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: I think it's a bit of a far-fetched bet, to be honest. But I understand what Steve Cortes is doing. And I actually, I think a lot of people appreciate the candidness that he's using, and you know, the stark honesty that he used in that Twitter spaces event, but it's very different from obviously what Donald Trump and his campaign has always done.

I mean, remember, in 2015, when he was first running Donald Trump, he was still behind at this point. Jeb Bush in the polls, he was starting to catch up, but he was always projecting confidence. He was always saying, we are going to win.

You know, we're here to win this different from what I think Steve Cortes is doing and also different from what many of Ron DeSantis is, other campaign advisors have been doing, which is projecting all out confidence and kind of the Trump, you know, rhetoric that he's going to continue to win.

So, I did find this very interesting, but I do think Steve Cortes was speaking truthfully and acknowledging reality, which is that even though Ron DeSantis is the second, if you look at polls, second behind Donald Trump, he has a long way to go to catch up. And so, I find that strategy in your reporting very interesting, but I'm not sure at least with Trump supporters that it will work.

BASH: And as you come in, because you have a lot of knowledge about and background about this. I just want our viewers to see what we mean by Ron DeSantis not doing well. If you go back to February, he was 28 percent behind Donald Trump, 43 percent since then, Trump has only increased his share of support, according to polls. And this is according to a Fox News poll. And Ron DeSantis, I mean, you could say hold steady ish, but certainly has gone down. So, within the margin of error.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's all midway (Ph), like two indictments for the former president. There has been no like, "net positive news for the foreign pres." Obviously, we know that the indictments can play well with the Trump base sometimes. But overall, Donald Trump has not had a spate of good news over the last couple of months. And yet, that is where he stands.

To me, the Steve Cortes comments reminded me of those fundraising emails that we get right, where it's like, we're not doing well, please help, right? And obviously, he's with a super PAC, he's trying to raise money. That to me, is his target audience with those comments. He's the donor class who are going to see this and say, oh, my gosh, if we don't want Donald Trump to be our nominee, Ron DeSantis may not be doing well, but he's still second. So, what can we do to bring him up? And that would be to donate more money to the super PAC.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: I don't know. I guess the cynic in me wonders if this was a cry for help, but to Donald Trump, you know, like, not for Donald Trump to help Ron DeSantis. But I just feel like a Twitter space is not a private donor event. Like it's very public. He had to know people were going to be listening. And his comments weren't really helpful to Ron DeSantis.

I don't feel like, he wasn't necessarily defending DeSantis as much as he was explaining how much Donald Trump is running away with the field. And to me, again, the cynic in me just wonders if this was him, just trying to kind of send a message to Donald Trump like, yes, I'm working against you. But I still love your guy. I still think you're great. You know, because just to me, if you're the Ron DeSantis campaign, you can't be happy with how he framed the campaign at this juncture.

BASH: So, you're thinking that's like three-dimensional chess, my impression, it's more like two-dimensional chess, because he's just trying to send up a flare to the campaign that he can't talk to, like guys do better. And this seems to be part of the message that the super PAC at least he wants the campaign to lean into. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORTES (voiceover): They might know Ron DeSantis COVID, Ron DeSantis Disney. You know, something like that. His name ID has risen a lot and we know that from our testing and our metrics, but they know very little really about him or about his personal life story or what he's done in Florida. I'm of the belief that once we really get his story out there, and thankfully, we have the resources to do that, he's campaigning with just frenetic pace already. So, I think once we get that out there, my view is that we're going to close this gap. I'm of the firm view that it is a two-man race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, hey, DeSantis campaign define him because what have we seen so far? We've seen the Trump super PAC and Trump allies defining DeSantis for DeSantis, which is never what you want. You never want to be defined by your opponents?

[12:10:00]

TREENE: Right. No, you don't. And I do think what he's also saying about the brand image around Ron DeSantis. I know of just from even talking to some of DeSantis' advisors, if that's something that they really want to leaning into this image that he's a family man unlike Donald Trump who, you know, one of his worst qualities is his rhetoric that he uses that's something that many voters have been turned off by. Ron DeSantis is trying to use that and lean into it showing, you know, appearing everywhere with his family, with his wife, Casey DeSantis, and also trying to draw contrast with Donald Trump. And so, I think that I understand, like you said, I agree with you, Dana, that I think that he's trying to give this message to the campaign, which you can't talk to you saying, this is what we're seeing. And I know that a lot of what the PACs been doing has been frustrated by some moves that the campaign has been doing. And so, this is his way of getting his message out there.

BASH: And just to sort of underscore the point that you were making earlier. Jeremy, I want to just show some examples of headlines around and about Ron DeSantis. Back in December, DeSantis hold early lead up over Trump among GOP. Primary voters do not goes down to the New York Times opinion piece, do not cross Ron DeSantis.

Fast forward to recently, Newsweek, Ron DeSantis' campaign in deep trouble. The guardian DeSantis stalling campaign how to lose friends and alienate people. And National Review the conservative outlet, Ron DeSantis is picking some strange battles.

DIAMOND: Yes. And I mean, look, that frustration is natural right amongst supporters when you have hopes for a candidate and you don't see them rising as quickly as you would like to. But it does beg the question of what is it exactly that can actually shake up this race, right? What is it that's going to remove Donald Trump's hold on the Republican primary base and on this primary race as a whole?

And it's hard to see what that is absent the possibility of Ron DeSantis really going after Trump directly. I think that was one of the big mistakes that Republican candidates made in 2016 was going after the guy -- the second guy or, you know, trying to appeal to his supporters without actually going after the man. We'll see. I mean, we haven't yet seen the evidence that that strategy is successful for Chris Christie, for example, but you know, remains to be seen.

BASH: It does. All right, everybody standby. By the way, on the note of defining him and give me more of his bio, Casey DeSantis, who a lot of people think is his secret weapon, certainly a very big influence politically in the governor's life. She's going to go to Iowa next week. So that'll be interesting to watch. Maybe it's the end of this week soon.

Former vice president and Republican presidential hopeful Mike Pence is in Iowa already this July 4, working to sway voters, who is not in Iowa or New Hampshire or South Carolina. We're going to dig into that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: July 4 means fireworks, parades. And if you're running for president campaigning, many of the GOP hopefuls are pounding the pavement and key early voting states today, but not all of them. CNN's Kyung Lah is in Iowa with former Vice President Mike Pence. Wow, look at you, you're actually on the parade route.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And you can see the former vice president, Dana, is walking right behind me. He's walking here. We've actually seen him burst into a jaw going back and forth, trying to shake people's hands. This is Iowa summer campaigning unfolding right behind us.

What the campaign is hoping to do is for the former vice president to win Iowa Republicans, one handshake at a time. He is joined here by his wife, Karen Pence. And this has been a two-mile walk. It is very hot out here. But you can see the smile on the candidates' face. And he is shaking hands, holding babies, and he is doing something that the former president is not doing.

Former President Donald Trump not here at Iowa. And what the Pence campaign hopes is to show that this is going to be a different sort of presidency. If Iowa does support him. And they believe by going through 99 counties and shaking hands one by one, that they'll be able to do it. Dana?

BASH: OK, Kyung. That is definitely one of the coolest live shots I've ever seen. Fantastic reporting. And tell the former VP and former second lady, we said, hey, if he wants to come back on, if you want to pull him on, you know, you let us know and we'll get you back on.

LAH: He appears to be quite busy right here. Shaking as many hands as possible. Dana, this is a strategy. This is how the pence campaign believes that they'll be in the game.

BASH: Very, very Iowa. Kyung, thank you so much. And today, as you just heard from Kyung, Donald Trump is not on the campaign trail. He is going to be missing from the debate stage next month. We think we're not sure Well, we're some seven weeks away about -- to learn about who will be on that debate stage and it is an open question.

One obstacle is that the RNC says, candidates will need to meet donation requirements to qualify. And that's prompted some to employ new fundraising tactics, sending letters to supporters and saying, it's up to them and their wallets if they want to see the candidate on the debate stage.

Our panel is back to discuss. That was cool live shot. (crosstalk). We all have live shot MB. So, we talked about who's on the camp. Well, we talked about Mike Pence on the campaign trail. Let me just also show who else is on there. Francis Suarez, the Mayor of Miami. He's also in Iowa. In New Hampshire, Ron DeSantis. As we just heard from Omar earlier, Tim Scott, Will Hurd and Doug Burgum.

But I just want to dive into the debate, the debate, the debate, the debate, debate, and what the RNC is requiring because I think this bears repeating. In order to get on the debate stage for August 23 in Wisconsin, you must reach at least 1 percent in three approved polls, get funding from 40,000 unique donors with at least 200 from 20 plus states, sign a loyalty pledge to support the eventual nominee. [12:20:00]

Let's just start with the polls and the money. We saw some of the fundraising appeals. On the poll, what is really interesting is that you don't necessarily have as many polls out there that qualify. And what the RNC says is that the survey, that poll must have at least 800 registered likely Republican voters and a mix of live and integrated voice response calls. So that rules out a lot of polls that we use here. And it rules in very specific Republican leaning -- right leaning polls.

TREENE: It does. And I think there's a key strategy here, which the RNC is really getting at, which is they want to read out the candidates that they do not think have a serious shot at becoming the nominee. And I think it'll be really interesting to see who can make it to the debate stage, because even though we know that Donald Trump is saying he may not show up for that debate, we'll see about the other candidates.

It's really their these candidates shot at showing America who they are, showing their debate skills, and you know, the rhetoric that they use, and for a lot of more of the lower brand name, name ID candidates, this is a good chance for them to really show America, you know, where they're standing is, even if Donald Trump isn't there, at least even without him at anything because of him not being there. They'll have a better shot at doing that.

MITCHELL: Yes. But the risk is that the debates turn out to be, you know, sort of lame, like, and you don't have Donald Trump. And then, now we're starting to hear that Ron DeSantis might say, well, if Donald Trump's not going to be on the stage, what's the point of me being the target guy on the stage?

You know, like, if it's all these kind of lower tier candidates, then what will be the benefit? If you don't, especially without Donald Trump, even if it is Ron DeSantis, what will be the benefit? If you're not debating the person who was the front runner in right now. Even according to Ron DeSantis' campaign, a good shot to be the nominees.

BASH: Let's listen to the most recent thing that Donald Trump said about whether or not he would actually be on the debate stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You've suggested you may skip the early Republican primary debates, the first being August in Milwaukee? Are you still in that mindset?

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I like to debate. I've been I probably am here because of debates. I don't mind it at all, but when you're 40 points up, and you're running against an even one came out today that you saw 51 points up. Why would I let these people take shots at me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, you have that and then you have the Chris Christie's of the world, trying to lure him, trying to get into his mind, a mind that Christie has known for two decades. They used to be good friends, and he was obviously a supporter. Here's what he said to Maureen Dowd.

He said, I don't think Trump's ever gone up against somebody who knows how to do what he does. He's never run against someone from New Jersey, who understands what the New York thing is, and what he's all about. He knows, I know what his game is.

DIAMOND: Yes. And I think Donald Trump has a point when he says, well, why would I let these candidates come and take a shot at me. I mean, Trump's gift one, maybe two debates back in the 2016 Republican primary, and he wasn't penalized for it by voters.

And beyond that, he's now in an incredibly strong position in the Republican primary, as we were talking about vis-a-vis DeSantis and every other candidate in the field. So, he really doesn't have a lot to gain, he has a lot to potentially lose. And vice versa, Chris Christie has a lot to gain by being on that stage. And that's why he's trying to get under the stage.

BASH: And he keeps saying, again, trying to pull him on the stage, whether he's there or not, I'm going to go after him. So, he might as well be on the stage. OK. Then there's all the other candidates. And the question of the pledge. Well, it's also a question for Donald Trump. But, you know, (crosstalk)

DIAMOND: -- -It's about Trump.

BASH: It's about Trump. I know it is. It's actually very true. The other question is whether or not they will sign a pledge, which the RNC is requiring to support whomever the nominee is. Listen to the way many of the other candidates who are not Trump have answered that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You run this process, you compete, and you respect the outcome of the process.

Asa Hutchinson, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You'd have to make the pledge based on the fact that Donald Trump is not going to be your nominee and you're confident.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the pledge is just a useless idea.

MIKE PENCE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think my old running mate is going to be the Republican nominee for president and I'm very confident, very confident that we'll be able to support the Republican nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, let me just paraphrase. That's everybody trying to get around the idea that they're going to probably sign this pledge to get on the debate stage, even though they don't really want to support Donald Trump. There's an exception to that and that is Will Hurd, who is the most recent entrant into the race. He told me on Sunday, I'm not going to do it.

[12:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL HURD, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm work towards to hitting all the requirements, but I can't lie to get access to a microphone. I'm not going to support Donald Trump. I recognize the impact that it has on, you know, my ability to get access to the debate stage, but I can't lie. It'd be easy to say, I'll do it. And then when it comes down, you know, change your mind, but I just can't, I can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: I mean, it's a very principled approach. But that means more than likely Will Hurd won't be on the debate stage. And that's just another kind of a bullet point as to why he's going to be considered a lower tier candidate. He's not polling, you know, anywhere near the top tier. He's struggling to create that anti-Trump lane. And now he won't be on the debate stage. And I think he's trying to create a lane of the principled approach of never Trump, but in today's Republican primary, where's that going to leave.

BASH: That lane is an exit ramp.

TREENE: Right. And I do think too, I mean, with the other candidates who are sending mixed messages being unclear about whether they will sign this, I agree with you, Dana that, I think that they'll ultimately do it because they know they need to get on that stage. Just like Jeremy was saying, it's gain for them to be on that stage. And even if Donald Trump is saying, I'm not going to sign it, it's not as much, you know, a mark against him if he's not up there.

BASH: All right. Everybody standby, because ahead President Biden, he is back at the White House on this July 4. He's got lots of celebrations planned, barbecue with military families, and of course, the annual fireworks display.

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