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House Passes Defense Spending Bill; House Passes Defense Bill With Controversial GOP Amendments; Pennsylvania, New Mexico Secretaries Of State Interviewed As Part Of 2020 Election Interference Probe; Milley: Trump Acknowledged He Lost 2020 Election; Kushner, Hicks Testified To Federal Grand Jury; Today: GOP Hopefuls In Iowa For Evangelical Summit; Tim Scott: U.S. Needs "Biblically Sound Leadership." Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, the GOP finds the votes to come out on top of a culture war collision. Republicans passed the crucial bill that assures the U.S. is ready to fight wars and they did it after putting a very deliberate conservative stamp on it.

Plus, Jared Kushner under oath. New reporting reveals that prosecutors asked the former president's son-in-law, did Donald Trump believes his own election lies. And Iowa decides in six months. The countdown to the caucuses is on as Donald Trump decides to play hooky and skip a big summit. Is that we need Iowa when you have Mike Tyson.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

Up first, Kevin McCarthy keeps the Republican family mostly together to win a culture war battle. Last hour, the House did its job and cleared a must pass defense bill. The final vote tally was 219 to 210. And that seems really, really tight for a bill that sets military policy. Well, it is. The narrow margin is thanks to a very heated back and forth over controversial add-ons to the bill.

Republicans say those amendments are unnecessary course correction to weed out wokeness from the military. Democrats accused Republicans of hijacking the bill to shove right wing ideology down the throats of the American people. The House speaker spoke immediately after the bill was passed his tone triumphant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA): I'm sorry to disappoint you that Republicans continue to keep our promises and we just again, from all your questions all week long, will the NDA pass this week? Not many of you ever asked me about the policy. So, I want to spend some moment. Your first question? Yes, it passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: Let's go right to Capitol Hill and chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju. It seems as though the tensions could not be higher. This felt like a very emotional 48 hours there.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. Because as you mentioned, this bill typically is passed every single year with a huge bipartisan vote. In fact, that came out of the House Armed Services Committee with just one dissenting vote and pass with Democratic and Republican support.

That was not the case. That happened just now. Just four Democrats broke ranks and voted for it, four Republicans voted against it. Among the Democrats who voted for it and that 219 to 210 vote, Jared Golden of Maine. He is a Democrat from a swing district, someone who is more moderate than many of his members. He voted for this plan and among the Republican no votes.

Andy Biggs a conservative member of the House Freedom Caucus along with Ken Buck, a Colorado Republican as well as Eli Crane and Tom Massie, four conservative members on the House voting no, but the Democratic support so little is because of the changes that were added to this bill.

Speaker McCarthy catering to the demands of his far right, which is threatening to hold up this bill, allowed amendments to go forward that essentially would nix the Pentagon's abortion policy, providing reimbursement to serve to members of the military who travel out of state to get an abortion.

Also dealing with the issue of transgender healthcare, eliminating healthcare for veterans, transgender veterans, that would be part of this bill as well, as well as eliminating diversity and equity and training programs had been a big push among conservatives, no longer part of this bill. But in talking to conservatives, many of them defending these changes and also arguing that they plan to pressure their leadership to hold the line and not back off in negotiations with the Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): When you have a man in a dress that's recruiting or promoting the military, that doesn't fly in East Tennessee. He doesn't fly anywhere, most places in America. When we get away from what traditional America believes, traditional America will not -- it's not going to play ball.

REP. RALPH NORMAN, (R-SC): You know, we're going to drive a hard bargain on that. And we can't control the Senate. We can't control the House (Ph).

RAJU: Yes. What if the speaker does compromise?

REP. NORMAN: We're hopefully preempt that.

REP. ADAM SMITH, (D-WA): The Freedom Caucus is not known for losing gracefully. So, we would have to see how that played out. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:00]

RAJU: And that last comment comes from Adam Smith, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee. Someone who had authored that bipartisan bill out of that committee, voting against his plan here. He is optimistic that a deal could be reached with the Senate that would be more in line of what he supports, but it's unclear how that conference committee process, House and Senate process will play out.

We have learned that Kevin McCarthy gave Marjorie Taylor Greene who is a hard right conservative, someone who plan to vote no on this bill. He gave her a spot on the conference committee. That was one of the concessions he made. So, gives you an indication, Dana, of all the horse trading that went on, as McCarthy pushed his bill through on the narrowest of margins.

BASH: Horse trading is a live and well and Congress some things just don't ever change. Thank you so much, Manu. Appreciate it. Here to share their reporting, CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN's David Chalian, and CNN's Lauren Fox, who probably ran here, down the Hill from the Capitol.

Lauren, this is so remarkable on so many levels. And not just because this is a must pass military bill that we've all seen passed with flying colors, by large bipartisan votes, but because they are each side is using it, mostly Republicans in this case, to make the point that they believe certain cultural issues either belong or don't belong in the U.S. military and the culture and the realities that are happening in the broader America should or should not happen in the military.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And you saw Democrats really struggling last night after the abortion amendment that banned the reimbursement from the Pentagon of families who need to travel across state lines that they need to get that healthcare because it's not offered in their state.

You saw a lot of Democrats kind of grappling with the fact that they were going to have to make a decision about voting against a bill that includes pay raises for the military, that includes more investments in infrastructure. Some of them have military installations in their own districts.

Gerry Connolly told me 25 percent of my economy in my district is based on military investments. And yet, I'm likely going to have to vote against this. That was what members were grappling.

BASH: So, let me just as we continue the conversation put up on the screen, what we're specifically talking about. The amendments that were adopted and are part of this defense bill that just passed this morning. Dismantling the DoD policy on abortion that you were just talking about Lauren, eliminate office diversity, equity and inclusion, ban critical race theory, ban radical gender ideology books in military schools, prohibit use of pride flag, remove funding for transgender care.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It's tough to tell if you're listing Fox News segments, or if you're listing what's included in this bill, because that's, that's what this is, right? This is a pure bass political play. And this is why, you know, it's so interesting, because we have always attached the term, reporters who cover the NDAA.

We've always attached the term must pass, must pass, must pass, because of the politics you state, because like no member of Congress wants to be facing an ad, targeting them for voting against the military in any way, right? So, it's always this must pass thing.

But when you load up, sort of culture war battle lines, it creates a whole different crosscurrent of politics here. And so, yes, while the horse trading is normal and has gone on forever. I don't know that this is particularly normal. I mean, I think this (crosstalk) you mentioned the Republican Party. You know, I think it's an unrecognizable Republican Party, even 15 years ago, you know, the way that this kind of bill or these issues would have been dealt with by Republicans in Congress.

BASH: I totally agree with that. What they argue, as we know, is that the reason they are doing this is because the, as I mentioned, the culture has changed in America, and it is much more acceptable to have a pride flag or, you know, questions about gender and that that should not be in the military.

I just want you to listen to some of what we heard from these Republicans who are pushing these amendments that passed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT, (R-CO): I don't send my boys to school to receive indoctrination from the woke mob or to be sexualized by groomers.

REP. RONNY JACKSON, (R-TX): The days of the radical left ignoring the law and pushing their destructive social agenda in the military are done.

REP. MATT ROSENDALE, (D-MT): Allowing this radical, trans agenda to infiltrate our military, we'll put our service members and my constituents in harm's way.

REP. NORMAN: If you don't know if you're a man or a woman, you shouldn't be going into war. To sum this up a woke military is a weak military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I mean, this is really a debate about civil rights, right. We call it the culture war, but it really is a debate about equality and whether a transgender folks are serving in the military or out of the military and their veterans. Do they have the right to get medical care? Do women have the right to get an abortion if they're in a state where abortion access is limited?

[12:10:00]

We sort of water it down and they get, I think a little euphemistic when we call it a culture war. You know, if you think about the military, the military, in some ways has been on the front end of the idea that America is an inclusive society, right? They were integrating early when lots of American society wanted to remain segregated. So now, you know, you said this party is unrecognizable from 50 years ago, it's really sort of unrecognizable from six or seven years, right?

I mean, this sort of real strident, anti-gay, anti-transgender rhetoric is fairly new. It's sort of out of nowhere. I mean, we've had transgender folks in the military. We've had gay folks in the military. And so, this, I think, is a real shift for this party.

BASH: Nia, you mentioned, this is about civil rights. You're talking about gay rights and transgender rights. There is a question about diversity, equity, and inclusion, which has become another big talking point among conservatives. I want you to listen to a back and forth between the top Democrat on this committee and a Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SMITH: It's obvious to me that the Republican majority doesn't understand what diversity, equity, and inclusion is. So, I'm going to attempt to explain it this way. We need to be intentional in recruiting from populations that have been historically discriminated against.

REP. NORMAN: We do have a difference of opinion of what diversity is. I believe diversity is, diversity add new ideas. Diversity is not based on your race or ethnicity.

REP. STEVEN HORSFORD, (D-NV): What are you so afraid of? Why do you keep bringing these divisive issues to the body of this floor?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: You know, one of the things that stood out to me over the last couple of days is when you talk to Republicans, many of them, both privately and some publicly, if they're in swing districts would say these issues, these debates, they do not belong in the NDAA. And part of that is because Republicans don't want to be painted with this broad brush that they are all against these kinds of programs.

But at the same time, they repeatedly keep letting those hardline Republicans really manage all the debate around these issues, really force how speaker Kevin McCarthy time and time again, and they just go along every time. They could vote against procedural votes, like the rule, they could make different decisions. And repeatedly, despite the fact many of them privately will tell you, we wish we weren't having these debates. They sort of continued to let them happen.

BASH: Yes. I mean, I was talking to a Democrat last night who has never voted against one of these who said, because all of this is in the bill. In some ways, it made it easier for him and other Democrats to vote no, because they're used to worrying about getting attacked politically.

All right, everybody standby. Up next, new reporting on the special counsel investigating Donald Trump. What we're learning after a quick break.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: And now exclusive, CNN reporting breaking right now. Special counsel, prosecutors have interviewed two more election officials in recent months as part of Jack Smith's investigation into the Trump plot to overturn the 2020 election.

Joining us now at the table is CNN's Paula Reid. Paula, what are you hearing?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I come on behalf of our colleagues Zach Cohen, who broke this story. He learned that the secretaries of state from Pennsylvania and New Mexico have both been interviewed by Special Counsel Jack Smith, in his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Now these are just two of the seven battleground states where former President Trump and his allies were really trying to up end Biden's victory.

Now what's interesting to me is when it comes to the Pennsylvania secretary of state, he met with investigators back in March. And Zach Cohen that they were especially interested in his time as the Philadelphia city commissioner in issues he encountered around a misinformation about widespread voter fraud.

And that's notable to me because you know, as you've reported, and others have reported over the past few days that the Michigan secretary of state was also asked about this by investigators, asking specifically how misinformation impacted election workers right, threats against them.

So, this is clearly a real focus right now for Jack Smith in his investigation. We know other officials from those seven states have also been subpoenaed or asked for interviews by the Special counsel. So, this appears to be a large part of what the special counsel's working on right now.

BASH: Fascinating reporting, and you mentioned that the pattern, let's just remind our viewers what we're talking about. So now, your new reporting, Zach's new reporting is Pennsylvania and New Mexico. We already know that Jocelyn Benson of Michigan, Brad Raffensperger of Georgia, and Rusty Bowers of Arizona.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, we shouldn't be surprised by any of this, right? Because if indeed the Special Counsel is following through with the mission that Attorney General Gardner assigned when the special counsel was announced last fall, looking into all the efforts related to the fallout of the 2020 election efforts to overturn it in the lead up to January 6.

These state players are critical. I mean, part of our reporting in real time was how these state players actually were the guardrails, at the end that prevented Donald Trump and his allies from being able to overturn a legitimate election.

And we have seen throughout the time of the January 6 committee in the House, well documented about election workers facing real threats in their personal lives, real disruption in their personal lives, which is just an insane thing to think about.

How do you have a functioning democracy? If the people who are charged on a volunteer basis mostly to actually follow through and oversee that process of a democratic election or being intimidated.

[12:20:00]

BASH: You know, you're exactly right. OK. So, that's happening with this new reporting. There's also reporting that started with the New York Times about Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law testified before the grand jury.

I'm going to read part of the Times reporting. Mr. Kushner testified before grand jury at the federal courthouse in Washington last month, where he is said to have maintained that it was his impression that Mr. Trump truly believed the election was stolen, according to a person briefed on the matter.

So that is it comes to the question, and I'll have you since you are the lawyer at the table, she is the only lawyer -- and covering this. OK. So, that's a question of intent, which matters a lot. When you look at Donald Trump's culpability when it comes to January 6.

But following on that, I'm going to read one more or not read, but I'm going to play one more reminder of what the chairman of the joint chief said about what Donald Trump actually thought about the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENERAL MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF: We're in the Oval and there's a discussion going on. And the president says, I think it could have been Pompeo. But he says words to be effective. Yes, we lost, we need to let that issue go to the next guy being President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: This is so interesting, because we're looking at exactly how the Special counsel is trying to unpack what Trump's true mindset was, right. It's one thing if your son-in-law right says, yes, he had a good faith belief that he had won the election. But you have so many other witnesses who contradict that, right? We know in early December, his own Attorney General Bill Barr told him that look, you lost. And then we know that they're really focused on a meeting a few weeks later, where Trump was literally in between two groups of people in the Oval Office, some outside lawyers who were trying to give him plans to use the military to seize voting machines, and then his own trusted White House lawyers who were like, no, we're not doing that. And as we've talked about, that you've lost, we need to move on.

And one of the reasons they're focused on that meeting is not just for what was said, but for what Trump did afterward. And getting insight into his mindset during all these key events, leading up to the election and following the election. This is a real focus for the special counsel. It does get difficult in terms of a successful criminal prosecution to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt in terms of what you actually believe. But it is fascinating to see all the pieces of contradicting evidence that Jack Smith has collected.

BASH: And Nia, let's look at the other members of the inner circle. Trump's inner circle, former inner circle, I should say. You'll see why I'm saying that. Who testified, Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, Pat Cipollone, Jared Kushner, Hope Hicks?

HENDERSON: Yes, that's right. And listen, some of these people are going to have varying accounts. We see what Jared Kushner said somebody like Ellis, Griffin (Ph) said that Donald Trump told her, you know, that he felt like he lost the election. Getting into Donald Trump's mindset at that time incredibly difficult. Did he really believe that there was widespread fraud or with was that just something he wanted to make up to cover for the fact that he really knew and really did lose the election.

BASH: OK. Everybody standby, because up next is David Chalian's favorite segment. It is six months until the critical Iowa caucuses and the GOP herd has gathered with one predictable absence. For live in Des Moines next.

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[12:25:00]

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BASH: Let the games begin. Tomorrow we'll mark six months until the Iowa caucuses and that state is where you're going to see many of the GOP candidates. Today, Governor Ron DeSantis, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Senator Tim Scott, Asa Hutchinson and Vivek Ramaswamy are in the Hawkeye state for the Family Leadership Summit.

It's an evangelical gathering organized by Christian conservative Bob Vander Plaats and its where Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds will sign a brand new six-week abortion law in porch and ban into law. Donald Trump obviously is not on that list. The former president in 2024 Republican front runner is conspicuously absent from today's cattle call.

CNN's Jessica Dean is live in Des Moines. Jessica set the stage from for us. What's going on, I know it's already begun behind you.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's why we've got this large gathering of this key voting bloc here in the critical state of Iowa. Dana, you just laid that all outsource. Zoom out a little bit more. Trump obviously not here.

It also comes as he has been very publicly attacking Kim Reynolds, the governor here in Iowa who's very popular among conservative voters and Republicans in the state of Iowa, and you mentioned will be signing that six-week abortion bill into law here against something that's very popular among this crowd.

And when you're talking to voters, there's no doubt that there is Trump fatigue, but the question for them is who can win who can beat Trump and who aligns with their values. And so, these candidates, of course, are looking for any breakout moment.

They're looking for any in with this critical section of voters. And so, we are hearing from them throughout the day in kind of a talk question and answer format, where they're able to talk to the audience and really pitch themselves as a candidate that can win in 2024. Here's Senator Tim Scott a little bit ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT, (R-SC): America needs positive, powerful, biblically sound leadership to regain the high ground. I started reading the Gospel and understood that I'm a part of a bigger family that a guy who grew up in a single parent household mired in poverty, who wanted to know who am I?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, a lot of the issues that they've been talking about things like abortion, transgender. Those are the issues that keep coming up, Dana. We expect to hear from the bulk of those candidates throughout the day.