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Day 2 Of Jury Selection In Trump Hush Money Trial; Rep. Massie Joins Effort To Oust Speaker Johnson; Defiant Speaker Johnson: "I Am Not Resigning"; Supreme Court Hears Pivotal Jan. 6 Case On Obstruction Charges; Supreme Court Could Upend Jan. 6 Obstruction Charges, Sentences. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 16, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:33:41]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Back to our top story, Donald Trump in a Manhattan courtroom right now as jury selection continues in his hush money criminal trial. The former president's legal team is now questioning potential jurors about their opinions of Trump. Attorney Todd Blanche said, quote, "You're not going to offend me or the court or even President Trump."

CNN's Laura Coates and Kara Scannell are still outside that courthouse. Kara and Laura, what else are you hearing?

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: There are so many big moments that are happening right now inside of the courtroom before -- behind us. And it's so consequential, Kara, because to have these jurors be questioned by the defense counsel, by the prosecution, this is after that original questionnaire. This is a very, very tedious process, very lengthy one.

One juror was asked this question about what her opinion of Donald Trump in fact was. Here's how she responded. "I don't really have one, especially in this courtroom. I think he will be treated as anybody else and no one is above the law. So I am here to hear the facts on both sides."

And remember, this is a potential juror. She may be in that room right now among the 18, but that doesn't mean that she'll actually sit.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. They are doing -- each side has 30 minutes right now. The prosecution finished their 30. Trump's law Todd Blanche's up doing his 30 minutes.

[12:35:02]

You know, underscoring to the jurors here that he said this is extraordinary serious. This is very serious and President Trump in the courtroom. And so he is saying to them, as you said, he wants to know what their opinion is. And so one juror, a male juror said, you know, if we were in a bar, I would tell you my opinion, but in this courtroom, I don't really have a strong enough one to get into it with you.

So they're trying to figure out what people's view here is of Trump, because, you know, they ultimately want to know if they liked him or not and if they can put it aside and what they'll say on that. I mean, the one juror who's in there who is a prosecutor said he understands that the prosecution's job is to have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

He also said that he has several friends in law enforcement who are pro-Trump. So, we're learning a little bit more about who these jurors are and the world that they live in.

COATES: I mean, this is a kind of speed dating, is it not, when you think about it, Dana, and trying to figure out how all this is going to go down. And, of course, these jurors may or may not ultimately be the ones to sit here. If you have questions out there about the trial, you can just go to cnn.com/trumptrialquestions, and you can type in your question there and we will air it on Laura Coates Live tonight at 11:00 p.m., Dana, really important.

BASH: That's very cool that you're doing that. Very cool.

Definitely be sure to tune in tonight to Laura show at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.

Coming up, the effort to oust House Speaker Mike Johnson is now growing with another hardline Republicans supporting Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene's effort to take Johnson's gavel away. We'll give you the latest information on the fast breaking news there after a quick break.

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[12:41:09]

BASH: House Speaker Mike Johnson is fighting to keep his job, the job he's had for less than six months. At least two House Republicans are threatening to oust him over his plans to handle Ukraine aid, aid to Israel. This was his message just a short while ago.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Hey, I'm not resigning. And it is, in my view, an absurd notion that someone would bring a vacate motion when we are simply here trying to do our jobs. It is not helpful to the cause. It is not helpful to the country. It does not help the House Republicans advance our agenda which is in the best interest of the American people here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. You've been talking to lawmakers all morning. Obviously, Manu, this is about in the short term, the politics for Mike Johnson. But we shouldn't lose sight, of course, of the fact that Ukraine and Ukraine's allies, both here and abroad have been begging Mike Johnson to do something quickly so that they don't lose to Russia.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been going on for months and months and months. And just about two months ago, when the Senate passed its own foreign aid package, that Mike Johnson sideline as he tried to come up with his own strategies. He tried to win over Republicans.

And just yesterday, he announced that strategy, saying that he's going to move forward on separate bills for Ukraine, for Israel, for Taiwan. And another bill that includes other policy measures, including a ban could -- something that could eventually lead to a ban on TikTok.

But here's the catch, is expected that the House will use a parliamentary maneuver to essentially put all those bills together in one package and send that over to the Senate. And that is what's causing a lot of angst within the GOP ranks. A lot of Republicans particularly on the hard right have said there should not be another dime for Ukraine.

They do not want to tie this to aid to Israel. Democrats, the White House want it all tied together because of what they say is an essential such an emergency for Ukraine. They say that this money is needed right now. Now, this all comes, of course, as the threat to push out Mike Johnson is growing.

In fact, Thomas Massie, the -- who is a Kentucky Republican announced behind closed doors that he would support this effort by Marjorie Taylor Greene to push out Mike Johnson from the speakership, any called on Johnson directly to resign. And I asked him about the interaction in a tense exchange behind closed doors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: You want him to resign?

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R), KENTUCKY: Yes. Yes, I asked him to resign.

RAJU: What he's said?

RAJU: He said he would not. And then I said, well, you're the one who's going to put us into this, because the motion is going to get called.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: I'm not a big fan of this, you know -- well, I like the individual votes, not a big fan of putting them all back together.

RAJU: What about the motion to vacate, would you --

JORDAN: We shouldn't be -- we don't need that. No way. No way. We don't want that. We shouldn't go through that again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So you're seeing a difference of opinion there from two conservatives on the right flank of the Republican Conference. Of course, Jim Jordan's being one who's influential within a lot of Republicans. But it's interesting to hear Jordan there, while he opposes his effort to push out Mike Johnson, he also is opposed to what the speaker is trying to do here.

We are seeing a lot of divisions among Republicans at this critical time because there's a question here, Dana, how long can Johnson survive? And is Mike Johnson even have the votes to get this measure out of the House by the end of the week, which is his goal? So just so many things that are riding on these key decisions at this moment, but a very precarious time for the Speaker. Dana?

BASH: Almost speaker, Jim Jordan there saying, no, we should not do this again. The dynamic among Democrats, particularly those who are the most vulnerable, there are several of them who are stepping up saying, You know what, they would potentially vote to help Mike Johnson because it would help them in their swing districts. What's the dynamic there?

RAJU: Yes, that's right. Yes, it is interesting dynamic, much different than what we saw with Kevin McCarthy when all Democrats voted with eight Republicans to oust Kevin McCarthy. This time is different.

[12:45:07]

Several of them including Tom Suozzi of New York has told me that he will not vote to oust Mike Johnson. Jared Moskowitz said he will not support Marjorie Taylor Greene's efforts to oust him, because he disagrees with Marjorie Taylor Greene and pretty much everything whether another member would come forward and push out Mike Johnson then he said he would evaluate on that regard.

And then there are others who say that if he does move forward on aid to Ukraine, that will be enough for them to save Mike Johnson's speakership. Abigail Spanberger being one of them. So a different dynamic here, Dana. But how will the numbers add up? Will there be enough Democrats to save them? What will the Democratic leaders do on that key vote? Those are all key questions that are coming in the days ahead. Dana?

BASH: OK, I'm glad you got those comfortable shoes on every single day, Manu. Thank you so much for that great reporting.

Panel is back here. Your publication has a very simple headline, I'll put it up.

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: And I didn't write it.

BASH: You didn't write it. But it's still simple and very apt, "We are screwed."

NICHOLS: Well, actually, I did write that one. Look, worse, this is going to be incredibly complicated. I think Manu just did a great job breaking it down. And we're really just this is basic math at this point, and whether or not he's going to survive. For every Republican that, you know, Johnson loses, he's got to find a Democrat that's willing to come on the side. And that's why, you know, the shoe leather or hopefully comfortable shoes that Manu was wearing are going to be so important, because we're just going to be running around trying to figure this out.

BASH: Can we just please take a step back and say, this is not like the most, you know, egregious political move that Mike Johnson could make in the grand scheme of things? What he's trying to do is provide money for a democracy in Europe, under threat -- quite literally under siege, and this is what he is getting.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's called governing. It's called legislating. It's called carrying out the functions of your office, which to some in his conference is not a positive. But I think one difference here is from the McCarthy thing is just the time in the season we're in.

We are during a presidential campaign season, there's very little tolerance or less tolerance to sort of motion to vacate and throw the speaker out again. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but when the former president had Speaker Johnson at his side just a few days ago, that was the indication of, guys, leave him alone. Let him do his work. We'll see if they follow Trump (ph).

BASH: The presidential election closer to the day that every House member is on the ballot.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, no. I think that'll make some difference. I mean, it is a remarkable that is the reason that these Republicans are so up in arms about a Ukraine funding is because of President Trump. And he is our approach to Putin, his approach and feelings about Russia.

So, you know, here we are seeing them do his bidding again, you know, treating them like he's a president in exile in so many ways. And Mike Johnson in a place that I thought, you know, listen, six months ago, it was imagine that he would be here with his speakership on a line, and likely it'll happen again and again.

BASH: OK. Up next, the Supreme Court case that could mean many January 6 defendants could go free. And it also may make it harder to prosecute Donald Trump. We'll explain after a quick break.

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[12:52:31]

BASH: The Supreme Court just heard arguments in a case that could undermine the charges against hundreds of January 6 rioters and even potentially Donald Trump. Trump isn't involved in this case, but it could have implications for him.

CNN's Senior Supreme Court Analyst Joan Biskupic sat in on today's arguments. She is also the author of "Nine Black Robes: Inside the Supreme Court's Drive to the Right and Its Historic Consequences," which I should say is out in paperback today. Thank you so much for being here.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure.

BASH: We just said you just came from the Supreme Court --

BISKUPIC: Yes.

BASH: -- down the street.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

BASH: Can you help me understand why this is even a thing, why this case even made it at all certainly up to the Supreme Court?

BISKUPIC: Yes. More than 300 of the January 6 defendants were charged under this provision. It's a 2002 law that was passed in the wake of the Enron accounting scandal. And what it does is it punishes anyone who corruptly destroys evidence or -- and here's the key part that they grappled with today -- otherwise obstructs influences or impedes any official proceeding.

So the question is, does anyone who's charged under this provision have to have done something to taint, wreck, spoil, destroy evidence at an official proceeding? The federal government says, no, this is sort of a -- this -- after the word otherwise, is a bit of a catch all phrase, and this can cover anyone that was involved in January 6, who knew that official proceeding was going on and tried to disrupt it.

Now, Dana, I have to say the questions from most of the justices from the conservative bloc that dominates suggest that they think the government has gone too far in its reading of the statute and that it would end up applying, as Samuel Alito said, in a hypothetical, maybe to disruptions in the Supreme Court, or maybe to peaceful protests outside.

BASH: So does the upshot if you're reading which --

BISKUPIC: Yes.

BASH: -- you've done this many times, I certainly trust your reading of the justices. If it's correct, and they're skeptical, and they side with the defendants here, could they be led out of jail? And what would that mean for Donald Trump and the indictment of him?

BISKUPIC: No. Most of these people, including Donald Trump, are charged under multiple classes. So it could mean less jail time for some people if the court rules against the government here. Or for example in the case of Donald Trump, Special Counsel Jack Smith is said even if you buy the argument here from the January 6 defendant and say that some sort of evidence connection with some records or documents has to be included here, they could go back and recharge him because they say that he proposed fraudulent electoral count documents and that would meet the definition.

[12:55:26] BASH: We're out of time but quickly, to Clarence Thomas. He wasn't there yesterday, he was there today. No sign he's going to recuse himself --

BISKUPIC: No. No.

BASH: -- because of his wife's election involvement.

BISKUPIC: No. Ginni was at January 6 at the rally, but she did not go to the Capitol and he has not recused himself and not said anything about why, Dana.

BASH: Joan, thank you. I feel so much smarter now, oh is when I talk to you. Thank you.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

BASH: Appreciate it. And thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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