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Inside Politics

Soon: First Impeachment Trial Of A Cabinet Member Since 1876; Speaker Johnson Says House Will Vote On Aid Bills Saturday; Hardline Republicans Threaten To Oust Johnson Over Aid Bill; Seven Jurors Seated In Trump's Criminal Hush Money Trial; Trump: "I'll Let You Know After The Trial" If Jurors Are Fair; Trump Campaigned Outside A Harlem Bodega After Court Ended; Biden Campaigns In Pennsylvania While Trump Stands Trial In NY. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 17, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL, thanks very much for joining us.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Obviously, a sensitive subject indeed. And to our viewers thanks very much for joining me. Here in the CNN Newsroom, I'm Wolf Blitzer. I'll be back later tonight 6:00 pm eastern in the Situation Room. Stay with us. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, history on the Hill. For the first time in nearly 150 years that cabinet member will be tried in the Senate for high crimes and misdemeanors. We're minutes away from the start of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas' impeachment trial, which could be over soon after it starts since the real GOP target is the president's border policies.

Plus, the salesman, a teacher and a nurse walk into a courtroom. We have new details on the seven people pick so far to be jurors in the matter of the people of the state of New York versus Donald J. Trump. And quote, Israel makes its own decisions. That's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's message to the world and his own political coalition, as we wait for his war cabinet to decide how to respond to Iran massive aerial assault. We are live in Tel Aviv this hour.

I'm Dana BASH. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

You're looking at live pictures of the Senate floor where senators will soon be sworn in as jurors to hear the impeachment case against President Biden's Homeland Security Secretary. Now after that, we don't quite know how this is going to play out. Democrats may call for a quick vote to dismiss the charges, even as Republicans demand a full trial.

Conviction and removal requires 67 votes. So, there is pretty much no question here about the eventual outcome. CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Manu, you've been talking to senators. What's your sense of how this is going to play out?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it could end quickly as you mentioned. There has been negotiations that have been happening for several days among the Republican and Democratic leadership to try to have some structure on the Senate floor. Remember, the Senate operates on a principle known as unanimous consent. That means all 100 senators have to agree to how a debate could happen. That includes during an impeachment trial, but there is no agreement yet and how this could play out.

Republicans -- Democrats had proposed and Republicans that came back with potentially having a couple of those to try to call for a full- blown trial, those votes would have gone down along party lines. We'll see if that eventually happens. And then ultimately, there'll be a move to dismiss the charges altogether.

But there hasn't been an agreement on that. Even though the eventual outcome is certain that Alejandro Mayorkas will be essentially acquitted here in the United States Senate. And there'll be just -- these charges will be dismissed by this Democratic led majority. But since there's no agreement, Dana, it could be that they open up the floor and they could quickly move to end the proceedings almost immediately. We'll see if that happens is a little uncertain at this moment.

Now, the question too, how will this play out on the campaign trail? There are a number of vulnerable Democratic senators who will vote, most likely to vote to dismiss these charges altogether. And Republicans say, they're going to make them pay for this at the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): There may be a rare moment of accountability. And that's -- I think, maybe an opportunity here. I don't think they'll be able to run and hide from their complicity in aiding and abetting machine, the Biden border crisis.

SEN. BOB CASEY, (D-PA): It's a partisan exercise. And I think it's a waste of people's time, but we have to go through it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Casey is not -- Bob Casey there -- it's just sort of from -- it's not the only vulnerable Democrat who will cast this key vote others to watch moving Senator Jon Tester of Montana. He had indicated previously that he would vote to dismiss this, and he suggested he would look at this a little further.

We'll see how he ultimately votes Sherrod Brown of Ohio, another one to watch Jacky Rosen of Nevada among those Democrats. But expect most of them -- if not all of them voted to dismiss. Will they pick up any Republicans who will oppose this as well.

Another senator to watch on the Republican side, Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska who has blasted these proceedings, suggested this is there's no reason to charge all 100 Americans with a high crime and misdemeanor over a, essentially a policy dispute. So that's going to be the debate. But Dana, the outcome we know all 100 Americas will be acquitted here in a matter of minutes.

BASH: OK, Manu, thank you so much. And the politics are very interesting, despite the outcome that we know. I want to talk more about that with PBS NewsHour's Laura Barron-Lopez, Susan Glasser of the New Yorker, and our very own Kristen Holmes. Thank you so much, everybody.

[12:05:00]

I want to just kind of pick up where Manu left off, which is the notion of why this is happening. And what it really means. This is happening because Republicans are trying to find every avenue that they can to highlight and politicize the very real border problems that put it on Joe Biden's plate. And this is a way that they have done it in the House by actually impeaching the homeland security secretary.

But now that the question is, how the trial will happen? How quickly it will happen is whether or not, they can use it against these vulnerable Democrats in the Senate?

SUSAN GLASSER, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: You know, Dana, I mean, Donald Trump sees immigration as the reason he won the White House in 2016. It is at the core of what he's trying to say, he has in effect use the House controlled very tenuously by Republicans as almost an extension and an arm of his campaign.

So, I would see this in the context of the 2024 presidential campaign. But, you know, there's a reason that this has only happened once before in our history that a cabinet secretary has been impeached and hasn't been tried since then, you know, it's going to come and go very quickly.

And up until the sort of transformation of impeachment into a really partisan tool in the last few years, there was a sense that, you know, both parties -- both parties had an incentive not to an effect criminalize their arguments over policy by putting cabinet secretaries like this in the hot seat. I think it's going to come and go so quickly. It will be seen ultimately as a not very successful kind of political gambit by the House Republican.

BASH: And it is political. I mean, that is sort of objectively true. And even listening to Republican senators talking about kind of the way that they are going to use this, knowing that it ultimately -- either will be dismissed quickly or eventually will be -- he will be acquitted. Listen to some of those Republican senators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R-UT): If they take a weaselly way out of this, if they betray our constitutional obligation to the Senate, I think we have an obligation on our side to make clear that that's not OK.

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): I think all of us should stand up and say, if we're not going to get a trial, then everything's on the table.

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R-MO): By the way, he may regret this a lot sooner than he thinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: He I believe he was talking about Chuck Schumer.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I agree. I mean, look, I think there's a couple of things going on here. One is just to reiterate what Susan said. Donald Trump not only believes that immigration helped propel him to the White House in 2016. He also thinks it's going to bring him back to the White House in 2024. And they want to double down on all this. And Republicans are following suit, not just because it's Donald Trump but because they see the poll numbers coming out that immigration is a top issue right now for voters.

And the people that you just heard from the senators, that you just heard from those are not necessarily moderate senators who are coming up to the microphone to talk about this. But I do think that overall, this is a way for Republicans and what they're viewing this as a way to highlight the border crisis, a way to put that forward.

Maybe people don't actually care about the impeachment of Mayorkas, maybe people aren't really even paying attention to what is going on in the Senate right now. What they are paying attention to is what's happening at the border.

BASH: Let's look at one of the examples that Manu gave about one of the most vulnerable incumbent Democratic senators, it's Jon Tester of Montana. This is the kind of thing he's facing from his opponents at home.

(PLAYING VIDEO)

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWSHOUR & CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Immigration is certainly going to be something that Republicans go after vulnerable Senate Democrats on like that. You'll notice they weren't talking about Mayorkas impeachment in that ad. And I think that, you know, the White House right now is feeling pretty confident.

They feel like the American public isn't really paying attention to this impeachment proceeding. And they also look towards that New York special election that Democrats won -- that Tom Suozzi won back that seat, where he used immigration.

And talked about immigration saying that Republicans weren't willing to vote for a border deal, killed the bipartisan border deal. And Democrats are willing to sign on to one of the most conservative immigration bills in decades and that Republicans are ultimately the ones that tanked it. So, you may very well see some candidates like Tester and other vulnerable Democrats try to use that argument.

BASH: Immigration has for months and months and months played into what the House speaker was grappling with. How he would deal with funding for Ukraine and -- pillar of Ukraine. Now it looks like he is going to move several bills that will finally give -- let's just really focus on Ukraine right now.

[12:10:00]

Ukraine, the money that it says it desperately needs in order to stay in the game and to fight back against Russia. What is your sense of just sort of the pol -- we're going to get to the policy in a bit, but the politics of this for Mike Johnson?

GLASSER: Yeah. Well, I mean it might be the thing that ends is very short tenure as speaker. You know, right now, I think that's not likely, but he is under threat. Not only from Marjorie Taylor Greene, but remember that it takes only one or two Republicans at this point to potentially take down the speaker.

The fragility and the narrowness of this House majority, of course, is one thing that's been powering the dysfunction. That's how they took out already one Republican Speaker, Kevin McCarthy. It took weeks for them to settle on this obscure, almost unknown candidate Mike Johnson.

You know, I think there's a lot of incentive in both the Republican and the Democratic caucuses right now, not to have another costly internal fight. But I think it's important, Dana, that you started this conversation about Ukraine by talking about the border because Republicans had this kind of extraordinary strategy. They've delayed a vote on this for essentially nearly six months now.

In this period of time, Ukrainians have run out of crucial ammunition. They've run out of air defense supplies at a time when Russia is launching incredible barrages against the civilian population and energy infrastructure of Ukraine. And all because Mike Johnson essentially couldn't assemble a governing majority in his own House. So, his bluff is being called right now, remember, Senator Republicans bluff was called. They said, we want a border deal in order to move Ukraine. It didn't happen.

BASH: He is saying -- the speaker is saying that along with the other measures for all of this international funding, he will do a version of the original border. But we'll see what it looks like. We don't know yet. But as that's happening, our great team on Capitol Hill, they are reporting effectively believe that the sort of sharks are circling and that there are other Republicans. Tom Emmer, for example, who is trying to see if maybe this time, if Mike Johnson is ousted, he can get the gavel. What do you think the chances are that Mike Johnson survives?

BARRON-LOPEZ: I think that if this motion to vacate is ultimately raised, and I know that there are a handful of Republicans now saying that they're going to bring it forward, that it would be very difficult for him to survive without the help of Democrats.

So -- and then ultimately, does he actually want the help of Democrats? Because, you know, for so long others before him have said that they wouldn't want Democrats to help them effectively feeling as though it would make them a weaker speaker within their party. So, he may ultimately decide that it's better to go down rather than have democratic help. And then again, at that point, who ultimately gets the votes to become speaker.

BASH: Well, it's hard to imagine dipping Democratic support or not, it's hard to imagine having a weaker hand than he does now just because of the slim majority. Everybody standby. Seven down, 11 to go. Jury selection is moving rapidly in the criminal case against Donald Trump. What do we know about the juror so far? That's next.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: We could be just a few days away from opening statements in the New York criminal trial of Donald Trump. Jury selection is moving at a brisk pace with seven seated already. They need 11 more which includes six alternates. Here's what we know.

Juror number one will be the foreman. He's originally from Ireland. Works in sales, has some college education and is married with no children. Juror number two is an oncology nurse and native New Yorker. She lives with her fiance and says she reads the New York Times and watches CNN. Juror number three is a corporate lawyer originally from Oregon. He says he gets his news from the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Google.

Juror number four is Puerto Rican and runs an IT business for training and consulting. He told the court he finds Trump quote, fascinating. Juror number five is an African American English teacher who says, she wasn't aware Trump is facing charges and other criminal cases. Juror number six is a recent college grad. She's working as a software engineer at a large broadcast company. Juror number seven is a lawyer who's married with two kids and lives on the Upper East Side in Manhattan.

CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero joins me now. Carrie, thanks so much for being here. What's your sense of the jury makeup so far?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's a cross section of New Yorkers, a variety of backgrounds, a variety of professional affiliations, family situations. And so that represents the jury system, that represents New York. And really, the court has -- I think, in this early part of the week moved pretty expeditiously in this process to get the jury seated.

BASH: No doubt. Obviously, this is very high profile. The individual jurors, we obviously don't know their names or anything more, but we do the fact that we have a sense of who they are, means that there will be a lot of attention. And then eventually -- now again, sort of anonymously, but eventually how will that play into -- how this is going to go down do you think?

[12:20:00] CORDERO: Well, hopefully the identity of these juries will remain confidential and that's so important for their impartiality, for their security, for their ability to serve out the course of this trial, which will go on for several weeks, we expect. So, we have this sort of background information about them.

I do think one of the challenges that the lawyers on both sides will be facing in selecting the remaining jurors. And in what going into selecting these already seated jurors is that they want to make sure that everybody is being truthful that nobody sort of sneaks into the jury with views that they are not expressing. The entire integrity of the system relies on truthfulness. And so, it just will be so important that the lawyers continue to try to delve into private views the individuals might have.

BASH: Got it. That is such an important point. We do at a certain point just as Americans have to take a leap of faith that everybody agrees that the jury system in the justice system is so important. Thank you so much. Appreciate that, Carrie.

CORDERO: Thanks.

BASH: So, what does Donald Trump think of his jury so far? Here he is last night at a campaign stop in Harlem after the court day ended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of juror in your mind is an ideal juror in this trial.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anybody that's fair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that the jury -- the jurors seated today can be fair?

TRUMP: I'll let you know after the trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: My panel is back. I mean, classic. Are they -- are they fair? I'll let you know after the trial. And something tells me if he's convicted, the answer will be no.

HOLMES: Yeah. I think you could probably say that's 100 percent true. I think Donald Trump was surprised yesterday during the actual jury selection. That there were people who seem to read his books, or who said that they were fascinated by him or actually said that they leaned Republican. Because he has been so convinced privately and publicly that he was not going to be able to find anyone in New York City who liked him at all.

But again, I think what Carrie's point was, and this is something that I have heard from sources, both in the prosecution and defense. Both sides are really worried about the fact that because Donald Trump is so polarizing, that there is potential for people to be dishonest because they want to be either support him in this trial, trying to possibly get a hung jury.

That's really the best outcome that the Trump team thinks that they're going to get out of this case. Or on the other side, sneaking in because they don't like it and they want to convict him. And it is interesting to me in this particular case, how aware everybody is of the fact that just because Donald Trump is so polarizing, it has become a concern on both sides.

BASH: It really is. You were with him in New York, not just at the courthouse but when he went to Harlem for an impromptu campaign stop of sorts. I want you to listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I've never thought I'd see a time when I'm going through --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was Joe Biden, obviously, not Donald Trump. Now we'll play Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Alvin Bragg does nothing. He goes after guys like Trump, who did nothing wrong. Violent, criminals, murderers. They know there are hundreds of murders all over the city. They know who they are. They don't pick them up. They go after Trump. This trial that I have now that's a Biden trial. They want to keep me off the campaign trail. But make sure what I'm doing, I think there's more press here than there is -- if I went out -- sorry, thanks for your patience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK. We'll make a little truth, open face sandwich here. It's not a Biden trial, obviously. And New York City murders are down 24 percent this year.

HOLMES: Right. But this is a really good preview of what Donald Trump is going to spend the next several weeks doing. I mean, this was a clear political stunt. This wasn't just a bodega in Harlem. This was the bodega in Harlem with that center of an Alvin Bragg controversy in 2022.

When Bragg' office decided to charge the clerk there who ended up killing a man who had jumped behind the counter and assaulted him. This led to enormous backlash throughout the state of New York, throughout the city against Bragg for bringing these charges.

This was a very calculated move. And this is really what we're going to see from Donald Trump. He can come out here and he can say over and over again that the trial is unfair. These are the Biden trials. And we can continue to say, it's obviously not true. This is a trial brought in New York State by a district attorney in New York. We can fact check it. But he's going to continue to try to utilize the public and these trials in order to get attention. BASH: I want to switch gears to President Biden who is on the campaign trail. He is in Pennsylvania. You saw a little bit of it. I want to -- if we can go back to some of what he said in Scranton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BIDEN: I've never thought I'd see a time when I'm going through a neighborhood or a rural town that's in the west and see big signs that's have a Trump sign in the middle that says, F-Biden, and having a little kid standing with his middle finger, seven years old -- eight years old. Well, I promise, it happens all the time. It's not who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:00]

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yeah. I think that we saw in the swing that the president is making this week through Pennsylvania. That he's really just trying to draw as many contrasts as possible, whether it's -- they're saying that, you know, he's trying to appeal to better angels, to try to appeal to civility to decency. That's something that he talks a lot about on the campaign trail.

And that former President Trump does the opposite, where he encourages violence in some cases, normalizes, you know, talking in very degrading terms about anyone that he opposes to the point where sometimes that can result in death threats against those people.

But you also saw on these campaign stops that he's really trying to create this image of Scranton, Pennsylvania versus Mar-a-Lago. And that actually -- it's Donald Trump that is the elitist and is the person that is out of touch with America. And then President Biden comes from a town like Scranton, that is much more in touch with everyday working people's needs and desires.

BASH: And on that note, he's also today going to talk some populist themes a lot, Donald Trump talking about tariffs. And before we go, I just want you and our viewers to see a brand-new ad from the Biden campaign and the name of the ad is sharp.

(PLAYING VIDEO)

BASH: I mean, that says it all. Again, that is from the Biden campaign, and the name of the ad is sharp. We're going to have to leave this part of the discussion where it is. Thank you so much. You stick around Susan. Israel is weighing a response to Iran weakened attack. The U.S. plans, brand new sanctions against Tehran. We're going to go live to Tel Aviv after a quick break.

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