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Johnson Risks Speakership With Aid Plan For Ukraine And Israel; Judge Dismisses Another Juror Who Had Been Selected; Five Jurors Remain After Two Who Had Been Selected Are Excused; RFK Jr. Officially Qualifies For Michigan Ballot; Biden Campaigning Today In Philadelphia With RFK Jr.'s Siblings. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:38]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: This time last year, the last thing Mike Johnson thought he would be right now is speaker of the House. And this time next week, he may not be once again. Why? Because he is giving in and helping a Democratic ally in its fight against a Russia invasion. He's promising a Saturday vote on $61 billion in aid to Ukraine, plus bills to aid Israel and Taiwan.

GOP hardliners like Marjorie Taylor Greene call it a betrayal. So, can the rookie speaker hang on to that gavel? CNN's Manu Raju is, of course, on Capitol Hill and has been talking to everybody on the Hill. Manu, what's the latest?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is a key moment for the Speaker, his future, the House Republican Conference, the House itself, as there's a discussion underway about making it harder to oust a sitting speaker. Of course, we saw the House being thrown into chaos last fall after the ouster of Kevin McCarthy, first time ever that happened in United States history.

And now hardliners are up threatening to do it again with Mike Johnson. Marjorie Taylor Greene leading the charge on that effort and warning that she may move ahead. Now, this is all -- this is playing out behind the scenes, there's an active discussion about changing the rules of the House to make it harder to oust a sitting speaker. Raising the threshold from now when one member can call for such a vote to many more members.

That is still uncertain how that will go down. But these discussions were played out on the floor of the House themselves, including with Congressman Matt Gaetz, who just engaged in a tense confrontation with Mike Johnson over this very topic.

Now, when I asked Marjorie Taylor Greene whether she was ready to move ahead today, she did not rule it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): It's unprecedented. This has never happened in history, and it's completely wrong. He owes our conference the truth. And he owes Republicans answers.

RAJU: Does that mean you will go forward today? Will you go forward today?

GREENE: I'm waiting to find out what's going to happen.

RAJU: What's holding you back?

GREENE: I'm a responsible person.

RAJU: You spoke to the speaker, what was that conversation like?

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Intense.

RAJU: Why?

GAETZ: Because we don't want to pass this bill. We sought clarification that a change to the motion to vacate threshold would not be in the rule and we did not get the answer that we wanted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So this is very significant here, Dana, because the way this process is expected to work, first, you have to approve a rule in the House. That actually sets the parameters for the Florida debate, allows it to happen along straight party lines. Typically, that procedural vote, the rule, happens, Republicans vote for it, Democrats vote against it.

This time, there are expected to be many Republicans on the hard right who are going to vote against it, meaning they need Democrats to carried over the finish line. That will set the stage for the vote on the larger overall aid package on Saturday.

But embedded in that rule could be that change for the motion to vacate, making it harder to oust a sitting speaker. And that is the rub, that is a source of pension right now on the far right. So if Johnson goes forward, that he is inviting a fight, but with the right flank of his party. But he can rely on Democrats to carry it over the finish line and essentially Democrats to keep him in this position. Dana?

BASH: That is some fascinating politics right there. Thank you so much, Manu. Appreciate it.

Let's keep the discussion going. And I want you to listen to what Mike Johnson himself said to Jake yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I don't know what's going to happen. I'm not focused on that. I'm focused on doing my job. Look, when you do the right thing, you let the chips fall where they may. I mean, that's how I -- that's my life philosophy and that's how I govern here every single day.

We try to get the best possible outcome for the American people, to move the ball forward for the American people. And I've got to say focus on that every day and not not all the drama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Politico had a great headline that it kind of sums it up. "The YOLO speakership. Speaker Mike Johnson has entered his damn-the- torpedoes phase." For my parents watching, YOLO is you only live once.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. It is a total YOLO moment. But look, here's what you have, these two separate things that have become fused. What is the future of Ukraine and the U.S. posture towards telling Russia, cool it, back off. You can't just invade other countries.

And this internal drama inside the House Republican Caucus about whether a handful of people get to control the majority of the leadership. You've got a clear majority of Democrats, but also a clear majority of Republicans in Congress, in both chambers, who believe that it's vital to the U.S. national interest and to the future of democracy to support Ukraine.

[12:35:01]

BASH: I want to bring in something that you reported this morning, Leigh Ann, which is "House Speaker Mike Johnson hasn't talked publicly about Chamberlain or Churchill, but he leaned into the analogy by describing himself as "a wartime speaker.""

So is this is Churchill or Chamberlain moment, or is that maybe a little too much?

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, EARLY 202 CO-AUTHOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, it is a saying that has been used many times on Capitol Hill this week from Republicans and Democrats. Speaker Jeffries -- or Leader Jeffries, excuse me, Chairman McCaul as well.

But I asked yesterday, Mike Johnson, I said, why are you willing to lose your job over this, over Ukraine? And he gave an extremely emotional response at saying, look, I have received all the briefings. I believe the briefings. He said, I think that this is a moment in time that history will judge me and I'm going to make the right decision.

He said he has a son going to the Naval Academy, so he doesn't want his son having to go fight Russia. He wants the Ukrainians to do it. And so I think that there is this moment that Speaker Johnson has frustrated a lot of members because it took him so long to make a decision, but he has made the decision regardless of the consequences.

And this idea to raise the threshold on the motion to vacate, this was pushed by a lot of -- some conservative members, but the ones who want to govern are encouraging Johnson to move forward with this. Johnson hasn't made a decision yet -- BASH: Yes.

CALDWELL: But there's so many dynamics happening in these calls (ph).

BASH: And again, just so people understand, the motion -- embedding motion to vacate changing the threshold --

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.

BASH: -- what it does is if it passes, it makes it harder for them to pull this again.

BORGER: Yes.

BASH: To get rid of a speaker to sort of lower the chaos threshold.

BORGER: Yes. You know, but what we're also watching is the transformation of somebody from a backbencher into a leader. And, you know, as backbencher, Johnson was not where he is now politically, and we've seen it with leader after leader, whether it was John Boehner or McCarthy or whatever.

And now he is acting as Speaker of the House rather than as the backbencher he was, and he finds himself on the opposite side of his former compatriots. And that is what often happens with leadership.

BASH: Everybody stand by because there are now five, five official jurors. Coming up, hiccups in the jury selection in the trial against Donald Trump that we've been talking about. We're going to go back to the Manhattan courthouse after a quick break.

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[12:42:20]

BASH: From seven to five, a whirlwind morning in the Donald Trump trial saw two jurors get asked to leave and not come back. I want to check back with CNN's Laura Coates, who is live near the Manhattan courthouse. So, Laura, look, on the first one, it was because she said that too much of her personal information got out.

I want to say for the record that CNN was very careful and is very careful about the identity of these jurors. Others are not so careful. But more broadly, based on your experience, did the judge maybe make a mistake about not limiting the information that even can get out? And is the judge reworking it now?

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, the idea of preserving the anonymity of a juror is so important. We talk about the effect of a gag order and why you don't want someone to make a statement that could be threatening or intimidating in any way.

Well, anonymity goes hand in hand with that proposition. You want to make sure that jurors who are called to perform a civic duty, they're not signing up for this. They're not raising their hand and saying, hey, coach put me in. They're being asked to perform a civil service by participating in our justice system.

And we reward them with at least anonymity to be able to do that without fear of reprisal or unwanted attention. And so that was always supposed to be the goal here. But as more information is released about these particular jurors, and frankly, there could be the coinciding of them telling friends and family that they in fact are on a jury and putting two and two together and the information has been detailed to be part of the issue.

This is going to be a big problem going forward, and the judge will likely have to be all the more cautious about what information is allowed to go out into the public to preserve the anonymity and provide a fair and just system for not only the defendant in this action, but of course the jurors in this particular box.

And, remember, we haven't chosen all the jurors. There are so prospective jurors who undoubtedly are hearing about this and saying, should I be concerned?

BASH: That's such an important point. What's happening in the courtroom right now?

COATES: Well, now they're continuing to have more discussion with these jurors who are answering that questionnaire. Remember that 42 plus question actually coming out in the written form asking everything from the more mundane about where you're from, maybe your employment to questions that are far more pointed about your knowledge of the defendant than the opinions you might have about that particular person, whether you've attended rallies or anti-Trump rallies.

Also, a really important question here that has come up that caused at least one dismissal of a juror is question 19. This has to do with whether or not you yourself have been arrested for a crime.

[12:45:04]

It has been revealed that at least one person did not answer that truthfully. That's going to come up time and time again, unless they're prudent and cautious about getting all the information through the voir dire.

BASH: All right, Laura, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

And coming up, remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D-MA): It's time again for a new generation of leadership. It is time now for Barack Obama. I'm proud to stand with him here today and offer my help, offer my voice, offer my energy, my commitment to make Barack Obama the next president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: Kennedy family changed the course of the 2008 Democratic presidential primary when Ted Kennedy, you just heard there, his niece, Caroline Kennedy, endorsed Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton. Today, the next generation of Kennedys is hoping to do something similar with Joe Biden. We'll talk about that next.

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[12:50:24]

BASH: Now to a very public family feud, more than a dozen candidates will appear with President Biden in Philadelphia today. It's a major review to the Kennedy trying to get on the ballot this November.

Here's what RFK Jr.'s sister Kerry Kennedy is expected to say. She's expected to say in part, "I can only imagine how Donald Trump's outrageous lies and behavior would have horrified my father, Robert F. Kennedy, who proudly served as attorney general of the United States and honored his pledge to uphold the law and protect the country."

And my panel is back. When we were in commercial break, we got big news on this subject. And that is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has now qualified to be on the ballot in the very important swing state of Michigan.

So let me just put up a map of what we're talking about right now when it comes to RFP Jr. and ballot access. It's a little bit behind because this just happened. He is now on the ballot in Utah and Michigan. The other states that you're seeing there, New Hampshire, Hawaii, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina, the important ones, of course, swing states being Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia, that are left, those are states where he -- or his Super PACs, or his campaigns say that he has the signatures, he just hasn't qualified.

Again, the big news is, Michigan, there will be RFK Jr. on the ballot, so people are going to have that option as opposed to just Trump or Biden.

BORGER: Well, and that's a threat to Joe Biden, and that's why you see the family getting together today to say we're for Joe Biden. I mean, you can make the case both ways that RFK Jr. could be a threat to Trump and to Biden, but I think the fear is, particularly in a state like Michigan, could be a real threat to Biden. And that's what the Kennedy family is worried about.

And, you know, Biden has a bust of Robert Kennedy in the Oval Office and has always been an admirer of the Kennedy family. And so I think personally, this must have some impact on him as well to see RFK Jr. doing this.

CALDWELL: And to remind people about why Michigan is so important, it's not just a battleground state, but it is also a state where there is a very active organization to try to defeat Biden of Democratic progressive voters over the issue of Israel and Gaza. And so it's critical. And the -- President Biden is obviously taking this very seriously because of the show today with all the Kennedy family members. But also they're putting money to try to ensure that this third, that RFK Jr. gets as few votes as possible because they do think that in 2016, third party candidate Gary Hart was, in fact, a spoiler for Donald -- giving Donald Trump the White House.

BASH: Yes.

TALEV: When you ask in polls early in an election cycle, how people feel about candidates, their name recognition is a huge part of the answer to that. And over time, typically, you know, in olden times, like four years ago, the closer you get to the general election, the more actual details about somebody's policies and their stances and who they are and what they believe, sync in and it changes or modifies that.

And so lesser known people get more name recognition. The people who are just coasting on name recognition, get more defined. There's a big difference this year. One is that the Kennedy name is so ubiquitous that it's like instant name recognition for everybody. But the second is that we know in this cycle, fewer and fewer people are actually consuming mainstream news.

Many people are turning to social media or just getting a snippet or a meme or an impression. And what we hear from people is like, in focus groups, I liked the Kennedys and it sounds like he's offering something different. And Biden's big challenge is, I think going to try to be to pierce that and define him more clearly away from the family name more clearly what he believes.

BASH: Yes. And you talked about Michigan and specifically the large Arab-American community there, the other part of the demographic that made up. The Biden coalition are young voters --

BORGER: Yes.

BASH: And if you look at, there's a new Harvard IOP youth poll that looks at where people are under the age of 30, Joe Biden is still ahead. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gets 8 percent of that vote. Then if you look at that choice without third party candidates, Joe Biden is way ahead, 56 percent to Donald Trump's 37.

There's actually -- we can talk about this another time -- a very interesting gender split, a lot more women than men.

[12:55:15]

This is the thing. This is the series of numbers that I want you to look at because I think it's very telling. If you look back to John Kerry in 2004, the only the Democrats who got at least 60 percent of the youth vote --

BORGER: One.

BASH: -- one. BORGER: Right. And Biden is not doing as well as he was doing in 2020 by a long shot. And I think that's a problem for them. Part of that is the progressive vote. Part of that is the economy. And when you talk about RFK Jr., that could be name recognition, right?

TALEV: Two points, three points makes the difference.

BORGER: Exactly.

BASH: Huge difference. Thanks everybody. Very busy day. Appreciate it. It's probably only going to get busier.

Thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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