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House Advances Ukraine, Israel Aid Package With Votes From 165 Democrats, 151 Republicans; Johnson Pushes Forward With Foreign Aid Bills As A Third Republicans Backs His Ouster; 12 Jurors, One Alternate Have Been Sworn In. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 19, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:31:36]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Just within the last hour, the House voted in a bipartisan manner to advance a key foreign aid package, a major step towards sending support to Ukraine and Israel. It was a pretty extraordinary move. More Democrats supported that procedural measure than the Republicans did. Republicans, of course, are in control of the House of Representatives.

It was 165 Democrats compared to 151 Republicans, and those Democratic votes were key for Speaker Mike Johnson overcoming opposition from his right flank. That reliance on the other side of the aisle means Johnson's future may be in jeopardy now. A third Republican said just moments ago that he supports ousting the Speaker.

I want to get straight to CNN's Melanie Zanona on Capitol Hill. Melanie? Melanie, can you hear me?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Dana -- Dana, yes, there you go. Look, Speaker Mike Johnson's job is certainly at risk here. He is on very thin ice, but he knew heading into this day that putting these foreign aid bills on the floor and needing to rely on Democratic support to do so was going to spark an uproar on the right.

But it is still a very rare moment here to see Democrats support these procedural votes. Just, historically, they've always been done along party lines, and in this case, more Democrats actually supported this procedural vote than Republicans.

I want to read you the vote breakdown, because it's very interesting here. 165 Democrats supported that procedural vote, and just 151 Republicans voted for it. Now, Johnson says he's not worried about his job being at risk here, and he also delivered a very forceful defense of this foreign aid package, which will receive a final vote tomorrow.

Just take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): It's not the legislation that we would write. If Republicans were in charge of both the House, the Senate, and the White House, this is the best possible product that we can get under these circumstances to take care of these really important obligations.

And so we look forward to the vote tomorrow. We let -- look forward to every member voting their conscience and their desire. And that is exactly how this process is supposed to work and how the House is supposed to operate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, Greene has not taken steps yet to actually force a floor vote on the motion to vacate. And the House has adjourned for the day, so the earliest this could actually come is tomorrow. But given the fact that there are now three Republicans who have signed on to this resolution, that means Johnson is going to have to rely on Democrats in some way to bail him out.

Now, Democrats have not made any commitments so far, but they have signaled some willingness to help Johnson keep the speakership. And a large part of that is because of the Republicans who are behind this effort to oust Johnson. Dana?

BASH: Melanie, thank you so much for that reporting.

Joining me here now is Republican Congressman Dusty Johnson of South Dakota, who came over after your vote. Thank you so much for being here, sir. What does it tell you that this is a procedural vote, and for, you know, those watching at home, they might not know that it's this kind of vote that is almost always strictly along party lines.

You heard that the Speaker argue, well, maybe that's not a bad thing, that this is how it's supposed to work. That's not how some in the right flank of your party see it. What does it say about Speaker Johnson's leadership right now?

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): I think it says a lot of positive things about Mike Johnson's leadership. If Mike Johnson just wanted to play the standard political games and be safe and make sure that everybody in our conference loved him, he would have played it safe. He wouldn't have been willing to cobble together this bipartisan strategy.

[12:35:04]

But if, you know, Dana, if you pull the lens out, pull the camera out, what just happened? A group of bipartisan members came together and said, let's have a conversation about Israel. Let's have a conversation about Ukraine. Let's put these things on the floor tomorrow and let's have a vote. Isn't that how our system is supposed to work?

BASH: Yes. But bipartisan is a very dirty word for people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and now Paul Gosar and Congressman Massie, the three of whom are saying that they support the idea of kicking him out for the high crime of bipartisanship. JOHNSON: Listen, I don't have to be happy with reality, but I do have to accept the reality. If you're going to govern a country, you don't get to live in fantasy land. The Democrats are in control of the Senate. Republicans are in control of the House.

That means under our constitutional system, it is literally true that no bill can ever become law unless you've got votes from both sides of the aisle. It's a pain in the butt. I get it. I just think it's time for the grown-ups, the big boys and the big girls to figure out how to govern a country. And it's going to be messy sometimes.

BASH: I just want to read you a couple of quotes. Democratic Congresswoman Grace Meng tweeted last night, "Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is essentially functioning as the real Speaker already. Tom Massie, who I mentioned before, "The U.S. House is now officially in an alternate universe where the Speaker shares procedural power with the Democrats."

JOHNSON: It is true that when Republicans are not united when we don't have our -- when we don't have people backing the speakers play, then you do give a certain amount of power over to the minority. It's amazing to me. I mean, I try to be a pretty good teammate when you've got a quarterback in the huddle with the 11 football players says gang, it's going to be a running play.

Now, it may be that somebody on the offensive line disagrees with that play call, but if you want to be successful as a team, you run the damn play. Not all 11 players get to call their own play. And now you could try it that way, but you're going to fail.

And so that's the situation we're in right now. I wish people understood that we could get more conservative policy wins, which I desire if Republicans stuck together.

BASH: I want to play something that you told my colleague, John Berman, just days after the Republicans. Eight Republicans ousted Kevin McCarthy back in October.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: If we don't change the foundational problems within our conference, it's just going to be the same stupid clown car with a different driver. Those hardliners, they're a real problem. And I don't think the pyromaniacs are going to be satisfied after they've burned down one house. I think they're going to have an itching to go burn down a couple more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Is that what we're going to see tomorrow?

JOHNSON: That guy sounded pretty smart. It was almost as though he foretold that this was going to happen.

BASH: Same clown car, different driver, is that what's going to happen tomorrow? JOHNSON: Pyromaniacs who want to burn it down. This is what I said during the last speaker fight. That getting rid of Kevin McCarthy was not going to make America stronger. It hasn't. It wasn't going to deliver more conservative victories. It hasn't.

And that, in fact, it was going to destabilize my party, destabilize the House and hurt America and that has all come to fruition. And now we've got people who want to run that same ridiculous, stupid play again. They can count me as a no.

BASH: Is Mike Johnson going to survive?

JOHNSON: Mike Johnson is going to survive.

BASH: How? With Democratic help?

JOHNSON: Well, I think in the end you're going to have a lot of very thoughtful members who understand that these silly D.C. power games don't actually serve our national interest. We got to get a farm bill done. Clearly, we need to deal with the southern border.

We've got a certain number of things that we have got to get done. I think there will be a few thoughtful folks on the other side of the aisle that understand that we should not be putting chaos over this R versus D battle.

BASH: Is your Republican majority in jeopardy because of all this chaos?

JOHNSON: I still think the Democratic vision for this country is not selling all that well across America. Now, it would be better if Republicans, I think, spoke with one voice if we were more coordinated, if we worked as a team. I still actually feel pretty good about Republican prospects in the House. And I think Republican takeover of the Senate is just about a Sherlock.

BASH: Before I let you go, your governor, Republican Kristi Noem of South Dakota, she is talked about as a contender to be a running mate for Donald Trump. Should she be?

JOHNSON: She is a heck of a leader. She knows who she is. She knows what she believes. And she doesn't cower from the challenge. I'm going to be honest, I'm kind of sick and tired of cowardly politicians. And so I'm kind of looking forward to somebody who's got a little swagger, who understands what American strength really looks like.

BASH: And that's her.

JOHNSON: Oh, Kristi Noem would be great.

BASH: OK. Thank you so much for coming in. Really appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Yes. Thanks so much.

BASH: And coming up, we are going to go back to Manhattan to our team outside the courthouse there. History is being made. [12:40:06]

Laura Coates will join us to talk broadly about the incredible week that we saw in that courthouse. Stay with us.

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BASH: Underway right now, more questions for prospective alternate jurors in the Trump hush money trial. Reporters inside the courtroom say Trump is watching intently, even as his lawyers ask the men and women who will decide his fate if they're bothered by allegations that Trump has been unfaithful in his marriage. That is a key piece of this case, as Trump stands accused of falsifying business records to hide an alleged affair with an adult film actress.

[12:45:17]

CNN's Chief Legal Analyst Laura Coates is live at the Manhattan courthouse still. So Laura, since you and I spoke, I don't know, maybe 20 minutes ago, some interesting developments have occurred in this questioning --

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BASH: -- of the potential alternate jurors. What's going on?

COATES: Well, this is the time to really lean in here. Those who are questioning these jurors want to get to the heart of the matter. What will be presented, whether it's about him being unfaithful, also about what they really think of him.

You have a number of jurors who are saying that they are favorable towards him. And they believe in his policy, that he's been good for the country. One juror saying that she takes more issue with Trump's base than she does with Donald Trump, and has criticized them as well.

Another person asking him -- asking the jurors about his rhetoric and whether that led them to be more biased towards him or otherwise. They seem to imply they could actually be very impartial towards him, causing Donald Trump, of course, to lean in intently about how they viewed him.

And, of course, the question is about unfaithfulness are a really key part of this, of course, because part of the allegations stem around an accusation that he has been involved in an extramarital affair with Stormy Daniels. Now, that may or may not be crucial.

The veracity of that for proving the underlying charges here, which include falsification of business records, certainly the rhetoric of that. Also, there's a moment here where a jury is asked about -- a juror is asked about how they feel about the fact that it's Donald Trump in the courtroom.

And the juror said, a male from New York said, "We don't really get starstruck or really care about anything like that. He's just a normal person. That's the way I see it." Another person talked about him as a businessman, that he is a family man as well.

So a lot of how they're viewing him is really going to be intriguing for the defense and the prosecution as to who they want to ultimately sit as alternates. Now, remember, these are alternates versus these primary jurors who will deliberate. But as you know, and the way the world turns, any one of them could be called to actually deliberate and decide the fate of Donald Trump.

BASH: That's right, which is why picking them is so important and the process is not over.

Thank you so much, Laura. All week, absolutely terrific. Thanks for breaking it down.

Up next, the former president is forced to sit quietly, judged, criticized by fellow Americans. CNN's Political Director David Chalian will join us for a look at the wild political moment that we're in.

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[12:52:03]

BASH: Well, what a week. Who better to talk about all of it, put it in context, than our very own Political Director, David Chalian. Hello?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hello.

BASH: So, you know, obviously, it's unprecedented that you have a former president, a presidential candidate sitting in a courtroom, waiting to see who is going to decide his fate. But the other part of this is that it's Donald Trump. And Donald Trump is very much in a bubble of his own making.

And it's not just because he's a former president, it's because he's, you know, a wealthy guy --

CHALIAN: Yes.

BASH: -- who lives in Mar-a-Lago, who lives in his areas where he has people who are not necessarily critical of him, let's say it that way. And that's not what he's enduring in this process.

CHALIAN: It's so true, Dana. It's got to be so just plainly uncomfortable for him. I know he complained that the room is freezing and that's uncomfortable. And the judge said today they're working on the temperature in the courtroom. But exactly to your point, I mean, any president or former president lives in a bubble.

BASH: Right.

CHALIAN: That is true. But not every president has also been a CEO of a company and a billionaire living high in a New York City skyscraper for most of their lives on a top floor. You know, it's like, he has lived such a life in a bubble for so long.

And to deal with this reality of people who are expressing, in some parts, very unfavorable opinions about him --

BASH: To his face.

CHALIAN: -- feet away from him to his face, as he's watching and looking at them intently.

BASH: Let me read a couple of these quotes. "I don't like his persona. He just seems very selfish and self-serving." By the way, this person is now juror number 11. "There have been behaviors that I haven't approved of President Trump towards females." "Sometimes the way he may carry himself in public leaves something to be desired."

Now, it's not as if he doesn't hear the stuff when he watches television and he's a vigorous, voracious consumer of media, but it is different when in person. But beyond that, David, talk about the moment that we're in in political history.

CHALIAN: Yes. So, the -- when you look at, as you said, an unprecedented factor right now, we've never had a former president sitting as a defendant in a criminal trial. He's also the Republican nominee. And this general election is well underway at this point. I mean, remember, we are -- we're in April.

BASH: 200 days.

CHALIAN: And people start voting in September. I mean, we are not that far away. The conventions are right upon us, whether or not Joe Biden and Donald Trump debate. These are all imminent things now. And he, for the next maybe six weeks, is sitting on trial every day.

And what is amazing? We have no idea. You and I, who've covered so many of these, what the impact of this will be. We just don't know what it will be.

[12:55:03]

We know that people are paying attention. We know that people will have opinions about this and that it may indeed impact voters, but we don't know how yet. And so having this huge X factor when our life is constantly trying to figure out what are all the factors and how do they play in an election is just also an unprecedented thing.

BASH: And you know who else does it know? The Biden campaign.

CHALIAN: Correct.

BASH: Which is, I mean, one of the many reasons that they're kind of staying a little bit, well, a lot away from this. The other, of course, is they don't want to give any more fodder to Donald Trump false fodder that Biden is somehow involved in this or any of the other trials.

CHALIAN: And think about -- in addition to Donald Trump and the campaign, just think about what these jurors are --

BASH: Yes. CHALIAN: -- experiencing, Americans who have never been in this position before. These 12 that will sit there, no other American has a comparable experience. So imagine what it is for them as well.

BASH: Yes, and it is your basic duty and we should all as Americans thank them, the people who eventually get seated.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BASH: And thank you.

CHALIAN: Thank you.

BASH: OK. And thank you so much for being here. Please tune in on Sunday to State of the Union. South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem will be among my guests. I hope to see you at 9:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.