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Hush Money Trial Resumes Tomorrow With Banker's Testimony; Barr: "I wouldn't Dispute" That Trump Suggested Executing Leakers; Trump VP Contender Kristi Noem Defends Shooting Her Dog; How Barbara Walters Blazed A Trail For Women In Journalism. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 29, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:47]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Donald Trump will be back in court tomorrow as prosecutors continue questioning their third witness, a banker who allegedly helped set up the shell company used to make hush money payments to a porn star Stormy Daniels.

CNN's Evan Perez is back along with CNN Legal Analyst and Former Deputy Assistant -- District Attorney Elliot Williams and CNN's Kristen Holmes. Hello, again. Can you just give me the big picture, or more importantly, our viewers the big picture of how we think the rest of this week is going to go?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, the difficulty for this trial has been like, you know, after Pecker, you know, where are they going to go? Well, how are they going to try to prove the conspiracy that they're alleging for the former president? So we don't know, you know, where they're going next with witnesses.

But, you know, I think the struggle still is there for them to try to show that this conspiracy was in the service of an election crime, which is what stands us up to make this a felony? You know, I think people -- a lot of people are assuming because this is a Manhattan jury that this is going to be a slam dunk for the prosecutors, and I don't think that's the case.

And I think people should prepare that, you know, there is at least one juror here who may be not persuaded by what the prosecution --

BASH: And would lead to a hung jury.

PEREZ: Right.

BASH: As you come in, Elliot, I want to put up on the screen who this third witness is, Gary Farro. He's currently a private client adviser at Flagstar Bank. He was the senior managing director at First Republic Bank when Michael Cohen was trying to set up the payment to Stormy Daniels.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK. So before even getting to the point at which you're talking about influencing campaigns and what the purpose is, you have to establish just what the financial transactions were. And people may not know that litigation or the trials are actually often quite boring and basic.

And you have to simply say, prosecutors have to come in and establish this is where the payment was made, this is the guy who knows where the payment was made, and this is where the payment went. You can have other witnesses who were in the room perhaps even at that August 2015 meeting talk about what was discussed and why they did it and so on.

[12:35:05]

But witnesses like this might just be pure just the facts, ma'am, witnesses you can help establish what happened.

BASH: OK. And I'm sure you're hearing that Donald Trump is super excited to sit in a courtroom all week?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, he's going to Michigan, Wisconsin on Wednesday, the first time that we're actually --

BASH: Because there are no trials, is it?

HOLMES: Yes, there's nothing on Wednesdays --

BASH: On Wednesdays.

HOLMES: -- we're seeing him campaign in his off days. Over the weekend, he'll have another fundraiser this last weekend and he was back in Florida with Melania. It was her birthday. But no, he does want to sit through trial. He also particularly doesn't want to sit through the testimony when we get to it of Stormy Daniels or Michael Cohen.

I think what's interesting here is that, as you said, these are the kinds of witnesses that are the glue that tell the story. They're not necessarily the most fascinating witnesses. But to Evan's point, one of the things that Donald Trump's team feels when they're going through this is, one, can they just get one sympathetic juror here? Can we get this to be a hung jury?

And they think there is a possibility for that outcome, much more likely that than he would be acquitted. But the other part of this is going to, can they paint Michael Cohen, not necessarily Donald Trump himself since he has a gag order, but can his army of right wing people on social media continue to paint him as a perjure and a liar with other things that are true?

BASH: I just want to -- before we leave the Donald Trump of it all, remind our viewers of a conversation that the former president's former attorney general had with our colleague Kaitlan Collins. This happened Friday night. And this is part of a discussion of him, even though, he was very critical of his former boss, saying now that he would support him and will vote for him for president.

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BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I actually don't remember him saying executing, but I, you know, I wouldn't dispute it. You know, I mean, it doesn't sound -- the president would lose his temper and say things like that. I doubt he would have actually carried it out.

I don't, you know -- I think people sometimes took them too, literally. And, you know, he would say things like, similar to that in occasions to blow off steam. But I wouldn't take him literally every time he did it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, he's not the only --

PEREZ: Yes.

BASH: -- very, very sharp critic of Donald Trump, who is now finding ways to explain why he's going to vote for Donald Trump. You covered him at their justice department.

PEREZ: Right? I mean, look, I mean, this is vintage, Bill Barr. He wants to be relevant. He wants to be in this conversation. I -- and I've talked to some of his friends and people around him and everybody's astonished as to why you'd want to go on television and talk about this, especially after all the critical things you said of Donald Trump, and then sort of turned around and just kind of explained it away. It really doesn't make any sense, but this is how Bill Barr does -- that's Bill Barr.

BASH: Real quick. I'm guessing all is not forgiven in Donald Trump's mind?

HOLMES: Absolutely not. No. He continues to talk poorly about Bill Barr. And also he's not the only person who has said that he's going to support Donald Trump after criticizing him that Donald Trump is still written off. So it's going to take more than just calling on one show in saying that.

BASH: There's a lot more to talk about that. Luckily, we have six months to talk about that. Don't go anywhere.

Coming up, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem is in the doghouse -- I know, sorry -- as she tries to defend what many feel is indefensible, shooting and killing her 14-month-old puppy that she said was untrainable. Stay with us.

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[12:42:43]

BASH: If you're explaining you're losing, that famous quote is attributed to Ronald Reagan, and it's something South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem is probably thinking about right now. Because if you're explaining why you dragged a dog into a gravel pit and shot that dog, you may be losing the race to become Donald Trump's VP pick. Kristen, Manu and Laura are back. What are you hearing from inside Trump land?

HOLMES: So I will tell you that Trump -- at least what I'm hearing from senior advisers is that he had soured on Kristi Noem before this event, that she was no longer being bandied about as the top contender for VP or at least one of them. So I don't think that changes this no matter what.

I also think that talking to advisers, they are aware of how bad this is. And there are a lot of questions as to why she would even put this in a book particularly given that she wanted to be Donald Trump's vice president.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And makes her sort of a laughingstock --

HOLMES: Right.

RAJU: -- which is probably the worst thing you can get at this moment. It's one of those issues that just seems to permeate. People really want to talk about it. Late Night comics are making fun of her and she said she also had some bizarre posts on social media even before this, do promoting a Texas dentist by a month ago.

HOLMES: And I think that's when it's started to go down.

RAJU: And yes. So that can help you and your prospects when you're supposed to be helping the top of the ticket if you are the running mate.

BASH: Well, you know, you know that sort of the warm turns when you have some of the most prominent fellow Republicans trolling you. And that is happening. Kari Lake posted a picture that is her own puppy. Ron DeSantis even posted a picture with a dog.

And then the more expected sort of trolls are from her fellow governors on the Democratic side. Governor Tim Walz, Governor Phil Murphy, Gretchen Whitmer, all posted pictures with their dogs and the caption below, "Post a picture with your dog that doesn't involve shooting them and throwing them in a gravel pit." That was Tim Walz saying I'll start.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And President Biden and Kamala Harris joined in the campaign tweeted out photos of them with dogs, smiling and being happy. I mean, look, it's just frankly a stunning story. I have a dog myself and it was a rescue who I had to go through years of training with.

[12:45:05]

So I think that a lot of people look at her story and question why the dog wasn't just given up for adoption. Why the dog wasn't put through rounds of training to become the type of dog that she had hoped it to be. I mean, it was a 14-month-old puppy. So, I think that it's just a stunning story that clearly is allowing Republicans to pile on and as well as Democrats

BASH: And again, just to sort of alluded to this, but just for anybody who hasn't followed it, and even people who aren't following politics are following this story. Kristi Noem has a book coming out. She put the story, a very vivid story about shooting a dog that she used for hunting who wasn't -- it wasn't working anymore to sort of put it in layman's terms.

What she did this weekend after that excerpt got out is she defended it but explained it. She said, "I can understand why some people are upset about a 20-year-old story of Cricket, one of the working dogs at our ranch. Whether running the ranch or in politics, I have never passed on my responsibilities to anyone else to handle. Even if it's hard and painful. I followed the law and was being a responsible parent, dog owner and neighbor."

HOLMES: Again --

RAJU: Responsible.

HOLMES: Yes. And you're just kind of digging yourself in a hole here. I mean --

BASH: I don't think her -- according to her book, her daughter was pretty upset.

RAJU: Yes.

HOLMES: And she asked where the dog was when she got home from school. And other part of the book.

BARRON-LOPEZ: And she didn't give a good explanation for killing the dog at all.

HOLMES: No.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Or that it was a danger to anyone.

HOLMES: And also, keep in mind, Donald Trump is known to not like dogs and not like --

BASH: That was going to be the next thing they asked. I mean, this is class. But do you think that was part of --

HOLMES: I have no idea --

BASH: -- her thinking here?

HOLMES: -- but I'm telling you is that -- the former president might not like dog --

BASH: Not in shooting a dog but in riding it --

HOLMES: Or he might not like dogs, but he definitely doesn't like stories about people going out and shooting a dog or at least he knows how bad that looks. I mean, again, this is all about perception. You're supposed to be at a time where you are putting your best foot forward because you want to be sitting in the White House next to, you know, next president and instead this is the story everyone is focused on.

RAJU: Instead of apologizing, she's also doubling down.

HOLMES: Right.

RAJU: That's also a thing that you can raise a judgment question about that too.

BASH: Did you hug Peanut a little tighter last night?

HOLMES: Of course.

BASH: I hugged Charlie (ph).

HOLMES: Gosh. No.

BASH: What your dog's name?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Strider (ph).

BASH: And Strider (ph) two.

Up next, a new book about an icon. The reason I am sitting here along with pretty much every other woman in TV news. Stay with us.

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[12:51:35]

BASH: Barbara Walters was a trailblazer for women in journalism. She was the first female anchor of a network evening newscast and interviewed everyone from Fidel Castro to Monica Lewinsky, Barbra Streisand and Vladimir Putin. USA Today Washington Bureau Chief, Susan Page has a new biography out, the "Rulebreaker: The Life and Times of Barbara Walters."

And Susan is here with me. This is such a great book. It is such a great book. I want to start with one of the many anecdotes you have in here about her tremendous career. And that is 1977, she scored an interview, joint interview with Anwar Sadat, and Menachem Begin.

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: No one had ever had a joint interview with the leader of Egypt and Israel before. It was historic. And she got it because she had spent years cultivating both men interviewing them and building a relationship that enabled them to stay almost on the fly that they would sit down with her. And you know who had ignored most? Walter Cronkite.

BASH: She almost literally took the interview right out from under him.

PAGE: And he heard about it and then scrambled to get one of his own. And when he finished his interview, he said, did Barbara get anything? I didn't.

BASH: And did he -- did she? Of course she did.

PAGE: Well, both for the historic interviews. But, you know, the first one is the sweetest.

BASH: Yes, it is. Many presidents, pretty much every president since she became a newscaster and a journalist. And you tell so many stories about her relationships with the presidents that she covered, the interviews that she did with them, and their spouses. One that I really want you to tell is the interview she did with the Fords.

PAGE: So she sat down with the Fords. As you said, she loved interviewing presidents, and often with their spouses, she liked the interplay between them. But in this case, Betty Ford was visibly inebriated. And the question was, would she show that on the air? And she decided not to, because she didn't want to embarrass Betty Ford.

And in retrospect, she agreed that that was a mistake. And that if she had it to do over again, she would have shown Betty Ford.

BASH: interesting. So she didn't show Betty Ford at all in --

PAGE: She showed Betty Ford but not speaking because Betty Ford was sitting there and looked fine.

BASH: Yes.

PAGE: But when she was speaking, she was slurring her words.

BASH: Yes. And Betty Ford obviously then went on to become a trailblazer of her own and making the idea of being an alcoholic and an addict, tried to take the stigma out of it.

PAGE: That's right. But she wasn't in that stage --

BASH: Not-- no.

PAGE: -- at that point --

BASH: Exactly.

PAGE: -- she'd not acknowledged her drinking problem.

BASH: Senator Ed Brooke, he was an African-American senator. And he was the love of Barbara Walters' life.

PAGE: African-American and married. They had a long affair. She later said it was the love of her life. And yet, when her good friend, Roy Cohn, the notorious lawyer said, you know, this will cost you your career if it comes out. She broke it off. They had talked about marriage. He offered to leave his wife for her, but it was just too much for that time.

BASH: And it really does speak to the larger takeaway from this book, that is, she was so successful in her professional life, but her personal life was kind of sad. And it is one of the things that she gifted to people like me and you and others and that is because she broke the glass ceiling and she blazed all these trails without any kind of a role model.

[12:55:09]

People like me can have a family and can have love and can have children and trying to balance it all isn't as hard as it was when she started.

PAGE: Now, she was relentless and maybe she had to be. Because whenever there was a choice between her personal life and her professional life, she chose her professional life. And maybe she wouldn't have been able to do all she did at the time because of that.

And I agree, I think it's a different -- it's important to remember that because it's a different time now. At that time, I think women in broadcasting and other careers saw it as a zero sum game. You succeeded, it was going to hurt me. And that is not, I think, the attitude of many women these days.

BASH: Yes. Yes. And it was a zero sum game. There was -- my mom when she first started, there was one slot for a woman in TV news and that is very much not the case. Thank goodness.

Thank you for this tremendous book. I encourage everybody to get it. Thank you so much for writing it.

Thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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