Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Trump Attorney Speaks To CNN After Classified Docs Case Is Dismissed; Judge Dismisses Trump Classified Documents Case; Trump In Milwaukee For GOP Convention After Assassination Attempt; Trump Says He's Rewriting Convention Speech To Focus On "Unity". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 15, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

ALINA HABBA, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: And he was on the DOJ. And he had no business, sitting in state court with President Trump. He was put in here to make sure that case went as planned under Merrick Garland.

The truth is, if and when we win. We are going to have to be transparent with America. We're going to have to make sure that people are appointed special counsel of the correct way. And that we do saw with the American people. I agree with you, the American people need to trust our system, no matter who's on that side. And they have to trust that we believe in the constitution, we're going to uphold it.

And I think at the end of the day, you can criticize Judge Cannon and a lot of people do. But she's looking at the constitution much like the Supreme Court did in the Fisher case. And much like the Supreme Court just did in the immunity case. They're looking at rights of the executive branch. And that applies to everyone. And that's what I always say, I'm not just President Trump's attorney. I really believe in the constitution in America, and we have to uphold that.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I certainly hear you on that. Of course, somebody from myself who's been in Maine justice and then become a U.S. attorney's office. At U.S.A., there is fluidity. There is the accusation of Colangelo. Thank you so much for being here and giving us the emotional background as well. Thank you.

HABBA: Thank you.

JIM ACOSTA CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yeah. And we'll find out what happens when the case gets to the 11th Circuit. All right, Laura Coates. Thank you very much. And thank you for joining me here on the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta. Stay with us. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts right now. Have a great day.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash, live from Milwaukee where the Republican National Convention is about to kick off. A different event than the former president says, he and his party planned since he narrowly escaped assassination this weekend. We're going to start with another unexpected twist here. Huge breaking news out of Florida. Judge Aileen Cannon dismissed the classified documents case against the former president. She says, Special Counsel Jack Smith's appointment was unconstitutional, making the entire prosecution invalid.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is tracking all of the developments. Katelyn, you have gone through her decision. Wow.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Wow. And the timing, but it's a 93-page opinion something Judge Aileen Cannon has likely been working on for quite some time. She's dismissing, closing the case against Donald Trump in the Southern District of Florida in federal court. One that was charged a year ago against him for mishandling more than 30 classified or national security records after his presidency. And then obstructing the justice department's attempts to get them back under control because of how sensitive they were.

Dana, this is a decision not about the allegations in the case at all. It is a decision where Judge Cannon says, the Justice Department, the executive branch didn't have the power to bring in Special Counsel Jack Smith as a prosecutor here. But it's not constitutional for him to charge this case or to have his office funded by money in the U.S. Treasury.

She says in her ruling today. In the end, there does appear to be a tradition of appointing a special attorney like figures in moments of political scandal throughout the country's history. But very few if any of these figures actually resemble the position of Special Counsel Smith. Mr. Smith is a private citizen, exercising the full power of the United States attorney and with very little oversight or supervision.

So, that is Judge Cannon's decision on why Jack Smith cannot go forward with this prosecution. It's now going to be an uphill battle for the special counsel's office, if and when they're very likely to choose to appeal. We haven't heard from the Justice Department in response to this yet.

But Dana, there are implications not just for this criminal case against Donald Trump that is now closed in court. There are very likely implications that the special counsel's office will have to grapple with in that other federal criminal case that's still pending in Washington D.C. related to the 2020 election. Dana?

BASH: So many implications of this monumental decision. Katelyn, thank you so much. No surprise President Trump, the former president is applauding the decision. In a post on Truth Social, he connected it to the weekend attempt on his life. As we move forward in uniting our nation after the horrific events on Saturday, this dismissal of the lawless indictment in Florida should be just the first step. He goes on to attack other cases against him and accuse President Biden of overseeing them to be clear. There is no evidence of that.

Elie Honig is former Assistant U.S. Attorney and senior legal analyst here at CNN. Bill Brennan is former attorney for Donald Trump. Elie, I'm going to start with you. I mean, we have seen over the past three decades, special counsels. There have been judges who have been asked about and this idea of a special counsel has been challenged. Judges have upheld it. Judge Cannon clearly disagrees. Can you explain?

[12:05:00]

ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF N.Y. & CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Dana. So, this was a long shot argument by Donald Trump. Its sometimes long-shots come in. The argument essentially that Donald Trump made that Judge Cannon has now agreed with is that if somebody is going to be given the powers of a federal prosecutor like Jack Smith has been given, that person needs to be either nominated by the president, and confirmed by the Senate, as you would see with the U.S. Attorney for example, or Congress needs to pass a specific law saying, we hereby create this position. Neither of those things happen. Therefore, Judge Cannon ruled, this is unconstitutional.

Now, other special counsels have been challenged. The special counsel in the Hunter Biden case that was rejected by a different district court judge. Robert Mueller was challenged in the same way. That was rejected by a different district court judge. So, this will absolutely go up the appeals chain, Dana. I'm sure Jack Smith will appeal this to the 11th Circuit. We might well end up in the U.S. Supreme Court here.

BASH: Yeah. And Bill, this is a position that Clarence Thomas, for example, has taken recently that he doesn't think it is constitutional. I remember when I first started covering Washington, there was an independent counsel law that lapsed during the whitewater investigation and now a special counsel does have to be appointed by the attorney general. How do you see this playing out now, and obviously, just give your reaction to this stunning news.

BILL BRENNAN, PHILADELPHIA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, good afternoon, Dana. Thanks for having me. I agree with Elie, it's a landmark decision. If it holds up, the judge said that it was a violation of the appointments clause of the constitution when Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed Mr. Smith in 2022. She also said that the funding was improper -- apparently was a fund set up in the 1980s. And that's how it's been funded. So, it's a two-prong basis that she made her ruling on.

I think, Dana, you're right, that certainly the comments made by a Justice Thomas had to play into this. You know, when a Supreme Court justice opines in such a manner, I'm sure it had an effect on the district court, but this could have stands up, this could have ripple effects. It could cause a reexamination in the Hunter Biden case and all the special counsel cases.

And as you accurately pointed out, the whitewater mater where there was independent counsel and Judge Starr was appointed led to some changes. But this will be very interesting to see what happens in the 11th Circuit, which will certainly be appealed.

BASH: And real quick, Elie, that's such a good point. And frankly, I didn't even think of it until Bill just brought it up. I mean, there is a special counsel for Hunter Biden. He was just convicted. I mean, does this mean that it -- that would be overturned or maybe not until and unless this is decided by the Supreme Court?

HONIG: Well, Dana, I guarantee you. Abbe Lowell, who's Hunter Biden's lawyer is probably at his computer right now, drafting motions, both in the Delaware gun case where Hunter Biden was convicted. And in the California tax case, which is coming up for trial in September, saying, hey, we have a new ruling. Judge down in Florida says, this is all unconstitutional. You judges need to do the same.

And again, they're teeing it up for appeals court review. It's going to go through this system. By the way, whitewater and canister are a great example that Judge Cannon sight. She says, that was the right way to do it. There was a specific law passed by Congress saying, you can have this kind of independent counsel, as you said that law has since expired. So, there's an interesting historical context here as well.

BASH: All right, Elie and Bill, thank you so much for giving us your expertise on all of this. I want to now talk about the politics. CNN's Kristen Holmes is talking to the Trump campaign. Kristen, what are you hearing from your sources?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana. They're absolutely thrilled. You have to remember. This is actually the best- case scenario for them. They did not expect the case to be completely thrown out. But now that it has, they are celebrating. And there's a number of reasons for that.

First, the case itself, it has long been believed by Donald Trump's inner circle and particularly legal advisers that this was the most significant case that was brought against the former president. There was a lot of evidence. There were photos and there was even a recording of Donald Trump acknowledging that he knew he had classified documents and that he wasn't supposed to show them to people.

This was in their mind a pretty solid case. So now, the idea that it's been dismissed, yes, it is likely to be appealed. But the fact that it has been dismissed as obviously a huge win. But there's another reason they believe that this is a win. We're hearing the same argument we heard when the Supreme Court ruled on immunity that they believe this shows, "shows" that this is a political process, but this is political persecution. It adds to their argument that even the courts believe that this shouldn't have happened.

[12:10:00]

Remember one of the things in Judge Aileen Cannon's ruling says, that it is unconstitutional to have this Special Prosecutor Jack Smith. That is something that Donald Trump's team has long said. And now, we'll continue to point to. And as you noted, Dana, we don't have any evidence at all, linking President Joe Biden to any of these legal issues. And in fact, two of the cases that were brought against him were not even brought by the federal justice system, but they believe that strengthens their argument that this is all political. Dana? BASH: Kristen, thank you so much for that. I want to now turn to a fantastic group of reporters here. CNN's David Chalian, CNN and Bloomberg's Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN's Jeff Zeleny, CNN's Manu Raju, and CNN's Kaitlan Collins. All my friends and colleagues. I hit the jackpot today. Not only do you have big brains, but you have big rolodexes, you know --

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, THE SOURCE: All payroll is here.

BASH: David Chalian, I'm going to start with you to help us put -- we're going to talk about obviously, the horrific events of the weekend. But first, the events of an hour ago. Put it in context.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I mean, just that the way you framed that question is the story of this campaign, right? We'll get to the massive story after we deal with the massive story. And that's sort of been how this campaign has been unfolding. But we find ourselves at the opening of this convention, where Donald Trump is going to -- for the third consecutive presidential cycle. Be named he his party standard bearer?

And in this moment of having just survived an assassination attempt, and now being totally vindicated by -- I understand the district level judge here in one of his key arguments, one of the two federal cases against him now thrown out. It'll go on appeal. Obviously, Judge Cannon has been offering opinions that have been quite favorable to Donald Trump, who appointed her to the district court.

And I imagine may be on the shortlist for other appointments, should he become president. But you can't -- you can't paint given that the former president is OK, from the attack -- from the shooting on the weekend. You can't paint a better picture for Donald Trump to walk into this environment. It will be a hero's welcome on this convention floor like we've never seen for a nominee before.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, POLITICS & POLICY COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG & CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I think that's exactly right. I mean, he couldn't have scripted it any better. You know, Donald Trump has been a lucky politician in so many ways. And here he is on the cusp of being nominated. You're going to expect a very rapturous embrace of this president.

You can feel the electricity around Milwaukee with the folks who have come, who are delegates and really worship this president. Oh, he is that he's apex. And we're going to see some of that tonight. Obviously, he's going to roll out the VP at some point. We'll see who that is. But the star of the show in so many ways, is going to be Donald Trump. His stories just add to it.

BASH: I want to get both of your reactions to something that Matt Gaetz tweeted like seconds after Judge Aileen Cannon. Who as you rightly mentioned was appointed by Donald Trump. It says, future Supreme Court Justice Cannon.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look to David's point, she may have something bigger waiting for her. Should Donald Trump be elected? We will see about that, obviously, 113 days before the election. But I am struck by how different this moment is for Donald Trump. As David was saying, it's his third convention being nominated, but it's different in every way. He owns this Republican Party. We've known that.

But what I'm watching for as the day goes on, I think this ruling provides sort of a pathway to that is can he pivot and sort of win over now. Some voters who may not be with him necessarily, who may be still uneasy about him. We know that his base supports him tremendously.

But I think the decision to invite Nikki Haley to give a speech on Tuesday night right here is a big signal, because Nikki Haley, of course, was winning those primary voters, many of them right here in Wisconsin, right here --

BASH: Which is such a critical state.

ZELENY: -- in the suburbs around Milwaukee. And her message of unity, I think, is something we will see if the Trump orbit keeps this unity theme alive. That's a big challenge for them. But this is a new opportunity for him as well.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, we're seeing Trump the height of his political power, probably really a high point in his political career that we have seen since he came into the public sphere. It's hard to think of a different time. His Republican Party is absolutely united behind him before we have -- like we have not seen because his critics have gone away. They've been pushed aside. They've been -- they've lost elections, and the people that here are all behind them.

Just look at just the last few months of how -- you know, Nia said lucky, because people can say lucky. He very favorable court rulings. His immunity case and the Supreme Court case, essentially killing his federal election subversion case. What happened in the Fulton County case? The Fani Willis conduct, her handling of that. Now that's tied up in court. That is not going to go before the jury before November.

[12:15:00]

Now what happened in the classified documents case. On so many levels, things are bouncing Trump's way at a key moment. The question is, can he capitalize on it? Or will it be change for the next 100 days?

BASH: Kaitlan, you have done. Let's get back to the actual case that was dismissed by Judge Cannon this morning. You've done extensive reporting, including talk to somebody who -- a Trump employee, who was very much a part of the case that the special counsel was building against him.

COLLINS: Yeah. I mean, Katelyn Polantz, Paula Reid and I have broken so much reporting on this story. And I think what's important to remember is that what Judge Cannon has done here, has nothing to do with the merits of this case. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. And that's why the people who are most shocked of all are Trump's attorneys on this right now. No one was expecting this decision. This was seen as a far-flung effort of theirs to try to challenge Jack Smith's appointment.

We just heard from Merrick Garland last month, who said that he had no issues with his appointment, no regrets picking him, and did believe it was a sound decision, because it has been upheld for 30 years, ever since Watergate. Everyone -- they tried to challenge the premise of a special counsel there and it was maintained.

This is not just changing Jack Smith's appointment. This is going to have if it last, an effect and impact for decades. And I think what's at the heart of this case, Kristen Holmes was referencing, there is audio that we obtained of Trump bragging about having classified documents, acknowledging the fact that because he was no longer president, he could not declassify that.

They had that out. That is evidence that would have been obviously used inside court. There are Evan Corcoran, his attorneys notes that a judge in D.C. let them shield attorney client privilege, so they could look at them.

And then of course, there is Brian Butler. He is the -- he is employee number five. He is a key witness in the classified documents case who was criticized for coming forward and speaking with me earlier this year. But he did so in part because of what is happening right now, a fear that this case would never see the light of day. And I just want everyone to remember. What he said about what he witnessed about these boxes at Mar-a-Lago?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Did the two of you ever talk about moving boxes or looking back on that?

BRIAN BUTLER, FORMER MAR-A-LAGO EMPLOYEE: Yeah. I mean, there was one time towards one of the last times I was with them and we're talking about, you know, boxes. And you know, well Biden did the same thing. You know, he can't get -- it always got brought up about Biden and other people that did the same thing. And then there was one time he said, you know, we're all dirty, we all move boxes. And I said, well, look, I didn't even know what I was moving until I was at the plane. And that's when I remember moving boxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: He unwittingly was helping move boxes, not knowing what it was. He was talking there about how one of his best friends was now Trump's co-defendant in this case. And talking about what that looks like in Carlos de Oliveira. And just the impact this is not on real people's lives. But now Brian Butler, who would have expected to be on the witness stand, may never go to court. I mean, we don't know, obviously DOJ will appeal here. But the path forward is far from clear on this.

BASH: Yeah. I think what you said at the beginning, there is something that we have to emphasize and underscore and highlight that this is not about the substance of the case. This is -- this is a technicality. And that's why this is being dismissed, which is why it's definitely not over.

Don't go anywhere. Coming up. The 2024 campaign is transformed by an attempt on the life of Donald Trump. We are live here at the Republican National Convention, where we could see the former president as soon as this afternoon and announcement of his running mate could come at any moment. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Welcome back. We are live in Milwaukee. Just hours away from Republicans making it official that Donald Trump is their presidential nominee for the third time in a row. This afternoon, the former president could make his first public appearance since being rushed off stage after an assassination attempt that believe it or not, was less than 48 hours ago.

Reflecting on that harrowing moment, he told the Washington Examiner, quote. I'm supposed to be dead. I'm not supposed to be here. My panel is back with me. I just want to read a little bit more of what he told the Examiner. He said, and as we're looking ahead to what we're going to see here on the floor behind us.

I basically had a speech that was an unbelievable rip-roarer. It was brutal, really good, really tough. Last night, I threw it out. I think it would have been bad if I got up and started going wild about how horrible everybody is and how corrupt and crooked even if it's true. Now we have a speech that is more unifying.

ZELENY: Look, I mean, that is really framing the moment there. And again, I think we will have to see how he obviously leads the charge for unification. And does it, A, extend to the four nights of the convention? And B, does it extend to the next 113 odd days of the campaign. But walking through the convention hall here, which is Trump branded in every way --

BASH: Every way.

ZELENY: I'm struck by a quote that he said before that's in very large letters out here. It says, they're not after me. They're after you. I'm just standing in the way. And he has used that phrase so many times to talk about retribution, but boy does that hit differently when we're talking about the attempted assassination. So, on the minds of delegates here, they believed he was a hero coming in. And now it is, you know, magnified to the nth degree here. But again, what is he going to do beyond the convention?

[12:25:00]

BASH: That's an important point. HENDERSON: Yeah. And listen, his words after the attempted assassination were fight, fight, fight, right. And that is what his followers and the people who believe in him. That's what they expect from him, right? A fight against someone, right? They have felt like had been out to get him.

So, listen, I do think he is trying for this sort of, you know, soul to pull conversion, which is, in some ways wrapped in sort of this -- sort of biblical imagery, which I think will play well with some of the folks in the audience. But it seems -- I mean, we know Donald Trump, the idea that he thinks in this way and that he's a unifier is a bit of a stretch (Ph).

BASH: Kaitlan, what are you hearing from Trump's sources about how long this is likely to last?

COLLINS: Well, I think it depends on who ultimately wins out. We will obviously hear different messages from different surrogates. I mean, if you look at who's expected to speak this week, you can guess what kind of messages are going to come from whom, but it is Trump. And what that quote, essentially that he gave to the Examiner into the Washington Post, is what he's been hearing from advisers is to take advantage of this moment.

And that they're talking about it in political terms. Obviously, they were still reeling from and still are from what happened on Saturday night. But they're also looking at it how to take advantage of this situation and how it can best benefit him when it comes to something that he's struggled to do ever since he was first elected to office, which is to expand his base.

Inviting Nikki Haley is probably the clearest sign of that. I mean, Nikki Haley, said that Donald Trump was diminished on hinge obviously, when she was challenging him for the Republican nomination, and she has since said she will be voting for him. But I think it speaks to the moment of how they are going to try to capitalize on this. He has a lot of politically savvy people around him.

BASH: Yes. He also has people and you alluded to this, Kaitlan, who are slated to speak behind us, who don't always get on board. Let's just look at some Tucker Carlson, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ric Grennell, who's one of his former ambassadors, Congressman Ronny Jackson, Charlie Kirk, Kari Lake.

RAJU: I mean, look, that's the challenge, right? Because they've -- we've been in this moment since, you know, it's been two days since the assassination attempt. Things have tamped down. The rhetoric has stepped down as have been pulled from the airwaves in a like. This is a political convention where red meat is thrown to the base where Trump is a base politician.

He has been since day one. He has not been someone who has pivoted to the center as moderated his tone in any way. So, this will be a huge test for him. But for the rest of the convention, speakers are well -- as well. At what point do they start to go after the president in very sharp terms? They start to blame him for in some way for anything that happened over the weekend and which we've ever seen, even J. D. Vance, who could be the vice-presidential pick, said over the weekend that Biden's rhetoric contributed to this -- without any evidence is about what this shooter's motive was. So, will other people equal that line as well and will that change the complexion?

BASH: And it isn't -- go ahead.

CHALIAN: Sorry. Even in this moment, you read his additional quotes there. He says, it didn't feel right to talk about how crooked people are even -- even if it's true. You -- his response to the Florida ruling that you read at the top, I think you noted, it went on to attack the Biden Justice Department for coming after him.

So, let's not -- let's not imagine that this 78-year-old man who -- we've all observed for a long time in national politics is somehow going to be a totally different person. But let's not also discount that A, the personal experience of being a target of an assassination attempt.

And to Kaitlan's point, this political team advising him that there is a potential big upside moment for them to take advantage of politically. Those two things can be true, too. But we also know what his core instincts are in political battle.

BASH: I mean, I think this last line of his social media posts about the decision to throw out the case, it kind of sums it up. Let us come together to end all weaponization of our justice system and make America great again. I mean, that line is the paradox, the -- you know, everything that you just described, all in one.

COLLINS: Well, he said both --

ZELENY: And the bigger thing, its strength. I mean, if this campaign is about strength or weakness, this is one more example of his strength.

BASH: We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you all so much. Great to see you. Up next. Both presidential candidates are calling for unity. But as we were just talking about how long will it last? Former governor of this state Scott Walker and former Obama adviser David Axelrod will be here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)