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Inside Politics
Isolated Biden Holds On As Democrats Ramp Up Pressure; Trump Triumphant On Trail After Assassination Attempt; Dems Pile On as Fear Spreads About Biden's Down-Ballot Damage: Harris Spends Weekend Fundraising as Democrats Fret; Mullin Says Trump Pushed Him to Make Up with Teamsters Boss. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired July 21, 2024 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:55]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Holdout.
JEN O'MALLEY DILLON, BIDEN CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Joe Biden is more committed than ever to beat Donald Trump.
RAJU: With the president isolated in Delaware, pressure builds to push him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Passing the torch is the right thing to do.
RAJU: As Harris walks a tightrope.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): It's important for us to consider the stakes.
RAJU: What will Biden do?
Plus, rollout.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be here.
RAJU: Trump hits the trail with his VP pick.
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are we ready to give him four more years?
CROWD: Yes!
RAJU: For the first time since he was nearly killed.
TRUMP: I took a bullet for democracy.
RAJU: But after an unprecedented week, could the race still turn upside down. INSIDE POLITICS -- the best reporting from inside the corridors of power -- starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU (on camera): Good morning, and welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.
The crisis engulfing President Biden's reelection campaign has shown no signs of letting up. One by one, Democrats continue to ratchet up pressure on Biden to end his campaign with dozens now making that demand public.
Meantime, a restless president at his home in Delaware and recovering from COVID has so far defied calls to step aside and vowed to return to the campaign trail this week, all setting up an unprecedented clash between a sitting president and his own party. Less than four months before an election that will change the course of history.
Now, top Democratic officials are still moving ahead to finalize plans for a virtual roll call vote before the convention in mid-August. And if Biden becomes the nominee, replacing him could be next to impossible.
All of this means that this exact moment is critical for Biden to make a decision whether to stay in the race and force his divided party to fall in line or bow out and set up a messy scramble to find a successor and try to turn around a campaign that is now very much going, Donald Trump's way. Meanwhile, Trump, fresh off of officially becoming the GOP nominee, was back on the trail yesterday, holding his first rally since the assassination attempt that almost took his life.
I'm joined by his new running mate, Ohio Senator J.D. Vance. Yet the drama on the Democratic side was fresh on Trump's mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have no idea who their candidate is, and neither do we. That's a problem, but we'll see. Hopefully, they get it worked out.
Sort of interesting. This guy goes and he gets the votes and now they want to take it away. That's democracy. They talk about democracy. Let's take it away from him.
Let's do a poll on candidates. Ready? So I'll go -- I'll go. We're going to do a poll on a few candidate -- the press will like this because they won't have to pay for the poll.
From the moment we take back the White House from crooked Joe Biden and Kamala, I call it laughing Kamala. You ever watch the laugh? She's crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: All right. To dive into this crucial moment in American history, I'm joined by Alex Thompson with "Axios", Maeve Reston from "The Washington Post", 'Semafor's" David Weigel, and NPR's Michel Martin.
Good morning to you all. Some of you are flying just back from Milwaukee after the Republican convention. A lot to digest.
Alex, you have some new reporting this morning about what is happening with for Biden, right now. It seems all the signals that he is sending even though maybe he's receptive to changing his mind, he very much wants to stay in this race. Is that what you're hearing as well?
ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: Absolutely.
President Biden is dug in, and some of the new reporting today that I have is some of this actually originates from a grudge. He has with Barack Obama and what he feels was Obama and his top aides talking him out of running in 2016. After -- after Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in 2016, Biden felt guilty for not running, but also angry at everyone that convinced him not to run.
And now, he and some of his aides see parallels to what's going on right now. Some of those same people, even some of those same Obama aides like David Axelrod, are saying, get out.
[08:05:02]
And he's saying no. And they're saying, well, we have all the polling numbers. And he's like you said, you had all those polling numbers last time. And that sort of grudge is really fueling this now, and some -- to the point that some Democrats and some former Biden aides told me that if Obama were to come out and say, get out of the race, it would almost be -- it would almost ensure Joe Biden would stay in the race.
RAJU: Which is probably why Barack Obama has not publicly said a whole lot, really hasn't said a whole much at all.
But, you know, how does Biden put this back together? Let's just say he does decide to run, there were some new fundraising numbers out just yesterday about the Biden campaign versus Trump campaign.
Yes, he's raised a significant amount of money. He still has $96 million in cash on hand. Biden does still -- less than Trump, but the amount of money that has spent in June, $59 million to $10 million, that's a lot. It still is losing in this race.
But the larger question is, okay, he runs after this tumultuous month. How does he run in and put this back together and potentially win in November?
MAEVE RESTON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Well, those numbers last night were really ominous for the Biden campaign and Democrats, I think in part because they were in a way like an outdated snapshot of the campaign because the quarter ended in June. So that was only a couple of days after the debate.
But when you see that burn rate that we just saw, compared to Trump, just holding on to all that money that he raised after his conviction, we know that the numbers in July that that donations are being withheld right now by a lot of donors who want to see a different candidate on the Democratic side. And so, the fact that they were already sliding behind, with Trump surpassing Biden in the Democrats in terms of cash on hand, I think is just a really dark sign for them about what's to come.
RAJU: And part of this was a Trump strategy, too, right? To hold on to some of this money because they don't want Biden to be too weak and decide to jump out of the race, basically soften him up. But not totally, you know, pummel him across the airwaves because that's happening without them spending money.
DAVID WEIGEL, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Oh, yeah, they publicly worried before the convention. That was a conversation I kept having in the hallways on the floor. They were worried that Biden might drop out and they might have to run against somebody else.
Were they that worried about Vice President Harris? No. They thought they had a strategy to beat her. But I heard that again and again from delegates and from operatives, that one -- one thing I heard on Monday, for example, is that the aftermath of the shooting had frozen Democrats in place.
That was good for the Trump campaign, because they wanted Biden to keep agonizing, Democrats keep torturing Democrats in this decision for as long as possible, because all this came in the context of what you were saying of the Biden campaign spending tens of millions and their affiliate PACs, tens of millions of dollars outspending Biden on -- Trump on the air all year, having an advantage in swing states, doing exactly what it said, executing a plan and being behind before the debate.
They're aware that this is a campaign. They were beating before anything else happened in June.
RAJU: I mean, what is remarkable is what's happening among the Democratic leaders at this key moment.
Last night, Nancy Pelosi, who we've been watching very closely behind the scenes, has been raising concerns, have been really hearing alarms from a number of Democrats who are calling her up about all of this. She spoke at this what was called a unity dinner in North Carolina, about -- about the campaign, didn't quite mention or really talk a lot about the controversy that is now engulfing the former -- the current president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Elections are not about rewarding you for what you have done. They're about what you're going to do next. Are you ready for a great Democratic victory? I thought so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST, NPR "MORNING EDITION": Wow. RAJU: Look, she could have -- she could have said -- she could have
come out and said, I didn't support Joe Biden staying at the top of the ticket. Let's all get behind him.
She chose not to do this. And this is a woman who chooses her words very carefully.
MARTIN: Well, this is this. This is why Nancy Pelosi is the predominant strategist in the Democratic Party today, because she understands that the rules change all the time. This is no longer this is a "what have you done for me lately" job. That's what the presidency is right now. People can like it or not like it. That's what it is.
And also, she's also understands that people need to be excited about the ticket. I mean, you know, the recent years have upended all the things that we used to think were true about the presidential campaign. We used to think that, oh, people, nobody runs, nobody votes around the vice president.
Well, that's not true. Because, you know, four years ago, or rather six years ago, a lot of white evangelicals embraced the Trump ticket because of Mike Pence. They thought that's somebody I identify with, and we can sort of trust him.
And a lot of people were excited about the Biden-Harris ticket because they were excited about Kamala Harris. And I think what Nancy Pelosi is saying is that this isn't just about the policies. This is about how your ticket makes you feel.
If Donald Trump is about anything, it's about how he makes his supporters feel. And I think that what she's saying to Democrats is you need to have a ticket -- they need to have a ticket that is as exciting to Democrats as the Trump ticket is to Republicans.
[18:10:05]
And they don't have that.
RAJU: Yeah, and not so subtle message. And again, she could have just said, let's get all get behind Joe Biden. There's a reason why she didn't do that is because of those concerns that we've all been hearing publicly and privately. Now, this is why this moment is critical. There just really is not much time for Democrats to find out a successor if Joe Biden decides to step aside. This is the calendar of key dates ahead.
August 1st is when the earliest of DNC virtual roll call vote could occur, the latest by August 7th. The reason why that is significant is one sees Biden, if he is formally the nominee, replacing him becomes incredibly difficult to have.
There's a bunch of candidates who could come up here. We're going to talk a little bit about Kamala Harris later in the show, but really, the challenge here is if he decides to step aside, it's going to be a total mess to not only find a candidate, but just figure out the infrastructure, the campaign, all the rest and try to focus on Trump come November.
THOMPSON: Absolutely. There are no good options here. If you if you think the Democrats are in a bad situation now, the original sin was the fact that Joe Biden ran again in the first place. And now, there really are -- if Joe Biden were to get out tomorrow, it would be -- it would be chaos for this next month. And you also have to think early voting starts mid-September.
So the Democratic National Convention ends mid-August. So, you -- whoever comes out of there stumbling probably a little bit bloodied, would only have four weeks to ramp up to early voting. They would probably try to inherit what Biden has built in Wilmington, the DNC, but it would be messy.
And then there's also complications with the cash on hand, as Maeve was sort of reporting about the cash numbers, some of that money is only Biden-Harris. You can't necessarily easily translate to another candidate.
MARTIN: I disagree. Actually, I disagree that the calendar is against the Democrats. I actually think it's the opposite. I think initially you're looking at that big gap between the Republican convention, the Democratic convention. It used to be that they would go back to back. Whoever went first, the other person would come immediately after.
I think this actually works in the Democrats favor because they actually do have time to get their act together. I mean, one of the convention was this week, which is what it would have been in previous years.
RAJU: Yeah.
MARTIN: You know, then they would have to solidify the ticket. They would have no opportunity to change.
So I disagree and also --
RAJU: And typically -- typically, it happens right after.
MARTIN: It typically happens right after.
RAJU: I want to I want to talk about how Republicans are talking about the possible idea of Joe Biden stepping aside, and what they're saying about Biden himself, if he were to agree to not run for reelection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, if they replace Joe Biden because he's not, you know, mentally up to the task of being a candidate, and how can he continue to be our president?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Then you need to be invoking the 25th Amendment, too, because if he's not able to run for election, he's not able to run the country. If you're saying he can't win, then why did you have a primary to begin with? They did vote for -- over 14 million people voted for him.
RAJU: It sounds like you would rather face Joe Biden.
MULLIN: I -- you know, I believe in democracy. That means that they don't believe in democracy. They believe in socialism because in socialism they choose who's going to run and who's going to lead their country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RESTON: It is fascinating the way that they have flipped the argument on democracy to now argue that it would be this group of party elites that would be choosing instead of the voters, when in fact, during the Democratic primary, you know, voters didn't really have much of a choice with, you know, only minor candidates challenging him.
But I think the other piece of that is that it's not just Democrats talking about what scenario could happen, but there are some delegates that I have been talking to who really are wondering whether Biden would just step down altogether and hand things over to Kamala Harris so she could run as a sitting president.
I mean, that's still a scenario that is that's possible here that we're not talking about much, but could be fascinating to watch.
RAJU: That would be really remarkable. We'll see what happens here. Biden says he's still running. We'll see, huge questions in the days ahead.
All right. Up next, major legal victories, ahead in the polls, and surviving an assassination attempt to boot. But can Donald Trump keep the good luck going until November?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three and a half months is a lifetime in politics, so I don't think we can take anything for granted. We certainly are enjoying the week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:18:35]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Last week, I took a bullet for democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: That was Trump last night. This morning, the U.S. Secret Service in even more hot water. After acknowledging late last night that it turned down some additional requests for resources sought by Donald Trump's security detail, a major reversal from their previous denials. All of the head of the Secret Service, Kimberly Cheatle, is now facing
bipartisan calls to resign and is due for a grilling at a public hearing Monday in the House.
Trump sat down with FOX News last night and discussed the shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nobody mentioned it. Nobody said there was a problem and I would have waited for 15. They could have said, let's wait for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, five minutes something.
How did somebody get on that roof? And why wasn't he reported? Because people saw that he was on the roof. I mean, you had, Trumpers screaming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Look, I mean, the I guess the question is, can the Secret Service director basically hang on to her job, right? She's facing this enormous criticism from both sides of the aisle. She's due for this hearing, this week, and I'm sure it will not go particularly well tomorrow before the House Oversight Committee.
Can she hang on to her job?
WEIGEL: Well, the questions about it are another story that I think is going not to be too political and gauche about, but is going to help Republicans. Another set of questions, one -- one set of questions I heard at the convention by people who were just delegates asking why this has happened, is why -- why there were not more security on Trump.
[08:20:04]
That's a question that's going to be answered in hearings.
Did he ask more and not get it that they'll answer that question?
Republicans --
RAJU: Or maybe they won't answer the question.
WEIGEL: Or they'll ask the question. And this fits into a critique Trump made in the debate, which I think got less attention because of how Biden looked, which is that Biden does not fire people after a crisis. It feeds into that, too.
So many of the Trump campaign's successful messages were just built for months in advance. This is another one. Does Biden have a competent administration? They're arguing that Kamala Harris is not competent. They're arguing that the defense secretary is not competent.
And there's another one. Why did he appoint somebody who is not able to do the basic job of the Secret Service? It's an organization that had lots of scandals over the years.
But no, this is this is a nagging question. It has nothing to do with the ideology of the two campaigns, which is not a good answer yet.
RAJU: And was -- you want to --
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: I was just going to say, I mean, this does have like the potential to become a scandal because she's going to have to answer questions about why they turned down these requests for more service?
RAJU: Yeah.
THOMPSON: In addition, why they also denied RFK Jr.'s request for a Secret Service detail.
It seems that there was a -- they were turning down requests and now, you have an assassination attempt. And part of the reason that she has her job in the first place is that she was part of the first lady's detail during the Obama years. And so, she's going to have to answer some really uncomfortable questions.
WEIGEL: And that includes Mayorkas, who they already impeached in the House.
MARTIN: And also, I just have to point out the racial dynamics of this. I mean, one of the reasons this is an issue for both parties, obviously, both political parties have an interest in seeing their candidates well-protected. But all while this was going on, the police who were brought in to support the security around the perimeter, shot to death. A homeless African-American man who was in a confrontation with another homeless person at this sort of encampment.
RAJU: This is in Milwaukee.
MARTIN: In Milwaukee, at this sort of encampment. He was having some sort of confrontation with another homeless person. He'd had a knife. Or it is reported that he had a knife, and then they shot him multiple times.
So then the question becomes, gee, how is it that this homeless man, not in the perimeter, but out beyond it, is shot to death for having a fistfight when some kid -- white kid can climb on the roof, people see that he has a gun and somehow -- I mean, I'm not. Obviously, all deaths matter. All lives are precious.
But, you know, how is it that this white teenager can climb up on the roof in front of all these people with a weapon and something that -- nothing happens to him? And that's one -- another reason why the Democrats are as are as angry about this as Republicans are.
RAJU: Yeah, and we'll see that all play out tomorrow in -- before the House oversight committee.
I do want to turn to Trump's rally last night in Grand Rapids, Michigan. There was a lot of talk about after the assassination attempt. His tone is going to change. He'll be more unifying.
We really didn't see that at the Republican National Convention last week. It was not a very unifying affair. It was a very, as most conventions are, very partisan affair. Trump's speech devolved after 30 minutes of talking about the assassination and tap into other issues as well.
Yesterday in Grand Rapids, he also made an interesting comment about Project 2025 that is the conservative blueprint that he that the Democrats are trying to tie very closely to Donald Trump and Trump tried to distance himself from that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Like some on the right, severe right came up with this Project 25 and I don't even know. I mean, some of them I know who they are, but they're very, very conservative, just like you have this sort of the opposite of the radical left. Okay?
You have the radical left and you have the radical right. They are extreme. I mean, they're seriously extreme, but I don't know anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: I mean, the fact that he's saying that he recognizes that this could be a political liability.
RESTON: Yeah. And I was -- I was actually in Sterling Heights, Michigan, talking to a lot of women earlier in June. And the Biden campaign had put so much money behind this messaging for so long.
And it was like, right at that point that I started noticing, you know, Project 2025 coming up all the time in conversations, all of the women that I was talking to were seeing Black, white women, seeing it on TikTok, hearing different things about, like, you know, the department of education and many things that that really do relate to their own life and, and really being worried about that. And it was the first time you saw, you know, real fear sparking among some of these voters who were still undecided about what they were going to do because of Biden's age.
And now, you know, Trump advisers are really worried about this. They know the way it's taken off. And it's something that they are trying to, you know, get the genie back into the bottle and distance themselves --
RAJU: Yeah.
RESTON: -- from Project 2025. But we'll see if that works.
RAJU: You don't really hear Trump distancing himself from that, quote, severe right, very much. People will say he's part of the severe right, too.
THOMPSON: I mean, it's so striking to watch that Donald Trump is doing sort of conventional political things. He's now in the general election, and he is trying to now go from the right to the center. Like that's just a normal plot.
But it's so striking because he's always just been --
RAJU: And he never does that.
THOMPSON: No, never does that. Where is Biden right now? Is an attempt to save his candidacy, is now, you know, going out and issuing a laundry list of promises --
[08:25:02]
RAJU: Trying to get the left, trying to get the left behind him.
THOMPSON: Exactly.
RAJU: I wanted to talk about one thing that I found so fascinating just about -- I mean, this past week at the convention, we really saw this was the culmination of how Trump has transformed the Republican Party, really in his mold.
We came across a comment that George W. Bush made in 2011 about some of the very issues that Donald Trump has campaigned on and has turned into pillars of the GOP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: What's interesting about our country, if you study history, is that there are some isms that occasionally pop up -- pop up. One is isolationism and its evil twin protectionism and its evil triplet nativism.
So if you study the '20s, for example, there was -- there was an American first policy that said, who cares what happens in Europe? Well, what happened in Europe mattered eventually because of World War II.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: I mean, it's pretty remarkable. And that was only 13 years ago. And the very things he's talking about, it's isolationism, protectionism, critics would say nativism.
WEIGEL: Yeah.
RAJU: Trump policy.
WEIGEL: Yeah, the party under Trump has moved to the left or abandoned some Republican issues. You're not hearing them talk about entitlement reform anymore.
You are not hearing even tax cuts were not mentioned in J.D. Vance acceptance speech, I noticed. That was a theme before. I haven't heard the national debt.
You are hearing, and you saw on the floor signs that said mass deportation now. The party has moved towards the national --
RAJU: And Bush was one of the guys who pushed for comprehensive immigration reform.
WEIGEL: And remember -- remember Mitt Romney after the 2012 election, apologizing for using -- using the phrase self-deportation.
RESTON: Right, right.
RAJU: Yeah.
WEIGEL: So the party has moved into this sort of Buchanan direction. But Trump and Vance, they have it is completely coherent. And when a party is coherent and unified, it can also sound ironically moderate because nobody's -- nobody's now criticizing them with any reception inside the -- inside the party. They all agree on these.
RAJU: And that's what we're going to talk about next as well. The lack of criticism from the GOP down ticket.
All right. Panic on the Hill. The growing fears from Democrats at the top of the ticket could cost them both chambers of Congress.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:31:14]
RAJU: This morning, panic is growing in the Democratic Party as down- ballot Democrats stare up at the man currently at the top of their ticket. Their fear, Biden could cause them a chance at winning the House and keeping the Senate.
Now as furious donors warn they may close their wallets, some of the most vulnerable Democrats have joined the dozens in colleagues in pressing Biden to drop out. That include Senators Jon Tester from Montana and Sherrod Brown of Ohio.
But the dynamic could not be more different for Republicans who spent the past week rushing to embrace Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention, including candidates for the Senate in battleground states.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump and I will get the job done.
SEN. MIKE ROGERS (R-WI): Elect Donald Trump and make America great again.
DAVID MCCORMACK (R), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Who's ready to make Donald Trump our 47th president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And my panel is back. I mean, what is just so remarkable is that in past election cycles,
candidates in swing districts and swing states, they've been running away from Trump at the top of the ticket. They were concerned he could put off voters in suburban areas in particular.
Here's Mike Rogers in Michigan last night at the Trump rally, he is no MAGA Republican, but he has very much aligned himself with Donald Trump as he is running for the Senate in Michigan and onstage with him, his primary rival jumped out of the race and endorsed him. And you can see them all embracing there.
What does that tell you about where things are? The fact that these candidates in purplish areas say they're fine with Trump despite all of his liabilities.
MAEVE RESTON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Well just think about how different it is than the 2022 cycle when you know, Trump became a real liability for some of those Republican candidates. And I've been talking to a lot of folks in California who are involved in those swing -- a lot of tight swing district races. And those candidates are really wondering what's going to happen.
They never were really relying on much of a Biden updraft in their races but, you know, there are a lot of folks out in California who think that, you know, having a fresh ticket could be really invigorating.
At the same time there is sort of this idea that as donors get more and more concerned about Biden, that they will redirect a lot of their money to these House races and helping Democrats win.
So it's sort of like a double-edged sword at this point as they tried to game out which scenario is better for them.
RAJU: I caught up with Anthony D'Esposito, who is a swing district Republican -- really one of the key Republicans who help them regained the House this past cycle. His district, Biden carried by more than 15 points back in 2020, but he is very much on Trump's side.
So I kind of asked him about the calculation, in deciding to show up at the Republican National Convention and defend Donald Trump, why he decided to do that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: What's behind your decision to align yourself with the former president?
REP. ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO (R-NY): Well, first and foremost, I was always -- I was raised that when you're part of the team, you're part of the team. And I think that I have shown that.
RAJU: You also have a candidate at the top of the ticket who can put off voters in suburban districts like yours. Are you concerned they could pull back on you? D'ESPOSITO: I'm not concerned. I am confident that Republicans are
running on the issues.
RAJU: What would you say you draw the line with him?
D'ESPOSITO: I think right now it's about the issues and until I hear something from him that I completely disagree with, you know, I support putting America first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:34:51]
RAJU: I mean, what do think of the calculation of these members in these districts to say, all right, despite all the liabilities, we're with Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they could be mistaken it is a risk in some of these districts. I mean --
(CROSSTALKING)
MICHEL MARTIN, NPR "MORNING EDITION" HOST: It is a risk in some of these districts. I mean people forget that there was the, you know, I was just thinking about a number of districts particularly say in New York, where people have figured out how to isolate the top of the ticket from the people that they care about.
The other, I think this is a test though, for Democrats so that they can figure out how they make (ph) control the House and the Senate, a voting issue in the same way that Republicans in past cycles may control of the judiciary a voting issue. I mean somehow Democrats didn't seem to sort of figure out that midterm elections are about judges and taxes.
But the Republicans figured that out and have had a long-term project to make control of the federal judiciary a voting issue which they've done for their voters.
So now I think the test for Democrats is whether they can figure out how to make control -- or keeping control of the Senate, or trying to take control of the house a voting issue.
(CROSSTALKING)
RESTON: And so that's -- public already been, you know, starting to edge toward that argument that, you know, control of the House and the Senate are so important because they would potentially be a check on Trump's power.
And that does seem to be an -- you know, an argument that resonates with voters.
RAJU: And look at just how Senate Democratic candidates are running. Right now according to polls about how they are running versus Biden in some of these swing states. They are running well ahead of Joe Biden in Michigan and in Nevada and in Pennsylvania.
And that's the most pronounced is Pennsylvania 12 points to Democratic candidate Bob Casey, the senator there. Biden down by three.
I guess the question is, can they keep this going? It's very split ticket voting is highly -- it does not happen very much in recent election cycles. Is this going to change come November or do we expect them to run, far ahead of Joe Biden.
ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: I talked to some Democratic strategists just this week and that is the question that they are asking themselves and had great anxiety about it because they don't believe that they can sustain this.
That at the end of the day, you're going to be able to -- Senate Republicans are going to run tons and tons of ads connecting them to Joe Biden trying to bring them down. They may be able to outperform him, but not at the level that they're seeing in the polls right now.
MARTIN: And the issue is turnout, obviously. I mean, if Democrats aren't as excited about their candidates, candidates -- plural, as Republicans are about theirs, that's the issue.
It's the stay-home vote, that's what they're really worried up.
RAJU: And the difference too, of course, these candidates -- Senate Democratic candidates are running away from Joe Biden -- Jon Tester, and Sherrod Brown --
DAVID WEIGEL, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yes.
RAJU: -- being two of the most vulnerable Democrats, calling on him to step aside.
WEIGEL: And even the ones who -- haven't done that. Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin stalled (ph) a convention in her state all week, made a choice not to go to the convention. Has not been talking about Biden in her media appearances. And is facing ads now that have this Republican turn, which is if -- if Biden stays or if they get rid of him, they're arguing this Democrat was part of the greatest conspiracy, the greatest cover up of all time about Biden's age.
Because what Democrats can point to is 2022. Biden was unpopular as Trump was in 2022. All these candidates with -- the governor of Wisconsin is among them, Kansas and Michigan who swept the state, they all ran well ahead of Biden's approval ratings.
But they didn't have Trump on the ballot and they didn't have that question of are you covering up for somebody who looks much older than he did in 2022.
RAJU: Yes. Such a good point.
All right. Up next, while the president is home sick, Kamala Harris hits the campaign trail. What would it look like for Biden's second in command, to be in the top of the ticket. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): It's running against a convicted felon, then a prosecutor like Kamala is really a good person to make that case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:38:34]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RAJU: The view inside the Democratic party is hardening. If President Biden does drop out, it would almost certainly be Vice President Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket.
Even some donors are beginning to vet Harris' potential running mate. That's according to "The Washington Post".
Now, with the president off the trail, Harris was on Cape Cod on Saturday where she raised more than $2 million Secretary Pete Buttigieg. And she told donors the campaign quote, "takes grit".
But what would it mean if Harris was at the top of the ticket and could she actually beat Trump.
My panel is back to discuss.
So if we look at the poll, there've been some polling about this. Trump versus Harris, a CBS News has Trump up three? That is less of a margin than against Biden, which is about five or so.
How would a race versus -- Harris versus Trump look like? And do you think that Harris could actually win?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, it's going to be ugly. It will be very ugly. But that's nothing new. I mean, ugliness, I mean incredible racism, sexism, and misogyny has been thrown at Harris all along using terms we cannot say here on this program.
But everybody knows what those are. So it's going to be incredibly (INAUDIBLE). But I mean according to our latest polling, it's tied just within a statistical sort of heat -- it's a statistical tie.
Our latest NPR/PBS/Marist poll says that, which is what leads to this question of who would be the most exciting and the most appropriate running mate for her?
RAJU: Yes.
MARTIN: And the question is, the polling so far shows that any of them any of those people, any of the people who are being greatly mentioned would be equally viable.
RAJU: Yes. MARTIN: So that's what's sort of curious about the whole thing with all these sort of dramatic moves that we've all been talking about all week. The race is essentially static.
RAJU: Yes. But you know, Biden looks at the polls and says, oh, well look, I'm just as within -- close as Trump is as Kamala Harris.
But do the polls really tell us a whole lot because, you know, she has not been tested at the top of the ticket yet.
[08:44:47]
RAJU: She's not the one -- the one necessarily being hit with all the campaign ads, have been campaigning and talking about what you would do for the country.
THOMPSON: And you know, the interesting thing is, even if there are some polling out there showing that she would do a little bit better Joe Biden doesn't believe that she would do better. His inner circle don't believe that she would do better.
And that's -- that is part of the reason why Joe Biden is staying in this race is because -- and they could be wrong. It could be a historic miscalculation here.
But that is part of the reason because they also believe that once Trump's ire turns to her that those numbers will go down.
RESTON: At the same time though this has been, you know, a campaign, the Biden campaign that has really been struggling with their erosion among younger voters, voters of color.
You know, she could be a really dynamic presence at the top of the ticket, someone that gets all of those voters who were going to stay home as Michel mentioned earlier to, you know, to come out.
And so there is a lot of opportunity there for her, even though, you know, her own campaign she didn't do as well, you know, four years ago, but has learned a lot since then.
And so it would be fascinating to see her slip into that role and she has, you know, the people around her say that she certainly has gotten better. She's kind of found her niche and a way in which she has connected more deeply with voters.
So it'd be fascinating.
RAJU: And I asked Republicans about this too. About what would it mean for Kamala Harris on top of the ticket?
Here's Marco Rubio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I don't think he's going to have a harder time because Kamala Harris is like -- she actually -- Joe Biden is just the vehicle that they use to put these policies in place.
She actually believes in these things. Wants voters in places like Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin.
Here in Wisconsin find out about that Kamala Harris is actually a real deal left-winger I think they're going to lose by even more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Which is ironic -- ironic, because one of the reasons that Harris, as Maeve was pointing out one of the reasons Harris struggled during her presidential run is that progressive weren't sure she was a real deal left winger.
They felt that as attorney general in particular, she didn't do enough to disrupt what they see as discriminatory practices of policing, for example.
And that she was, you know, Kamala's a cop. And so the irony is that the Republicans are saying, oh no, you know, she's unacceptable to the country because she's too far left.
Well, that was one of the reasons she struggled with progressives is that they felt that she was centrist.
THOMPSON: She also has a huge advantage over Joe Biden, and that 80 percent of the voters don't think she is too old.
RAJU: I want -- before you jump in, Dave, I want you to listen to how Republicans were saying her name which they've actually been mispronouncing.
I mean, she is someone who has been on the national scene for obviously a fair amount of time. She's been the vice president for the last four years but this is what -- how Republicans were saying Kamala Harris at the Republican Convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): The greatest blame lies with his own vice president Kamala Harris.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Kamala Harris is unable to do any job.
DAVID MCCORMACK (R), SENATE CANDIDATE: Who's ready to retire Joe Biden and border czar Kamala Harris --
TIM SHEEHY (R), MONTANA SENATE CANDIDATE: The liberal Washington politician who votes with Biden and Kamala every single time.
GOV. SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS (R-AR): President Trump did the job that Kamala won't and Joe Biden simply can't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: I mean, nearly half of the speakers at the according to "The Washington Post" mispronounced her name. Is this a deliberate tactic? They do not know. How could they not?
WEIGEL: I think it's of a piece of calling us Democrat Party with no IC, it's this -- it's the same sort of dismissiveness.
I would say I was having some of the same conversations in Milwaukee on Monday. The arguments were a lot more not ready for primetime about Harris. Calling her a DEI candidate or calling her lightweight.
As the week went on, I heard more of what you heard from Rubio, which was we're going to connect her to the bad policies.
I think if she's the most left-wing candidate thing is tied to her Senate record, which I don't think is going to be much of an issue if she is the nominee.
It is more we're going to pick the parts of the Biden record that we think are the least popular, immigration first among them. And we're going to attribute that to her.
That's what they started doing in early 2021 when she had a bigger role in the administration, more high-profile, and they thought she would be out in front a lot more.
As she receded from headlines, they did a little bit less of that, but that's always been the strategy is tie her to the least popular policy and say there's San Francisco liberals behind it. Even though in San Francisco, that's not --
(CROSSTALKING)
RAJU: All right. We're obviously going to see it she is the candidate and how Republicans respond. Maybe it's a moot point, maybe Biden runs and we shall see. So many questions ahead (INAUDIBLE).
All right. Coming up, the senator and the union boss who almost came to blows. Well, they'll make it up now and how former president Trump played a role.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): UNIDENTIFIED MALE: you want it now.
SEAN O'BRIEN, TEAMSTERS UNION PRESIDENT: I'd love to do it right now.
MULLIN: Well, stand your butt up then.
O'BRIEN: You stand your butt up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Stop it.
MULLIN: There (INAUDIBLE) --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Oh no. Sit down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:49:24]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RAJU: You might remember that wild moment during a Capitol hearing this past November when a United States senator, Oklahoma Republican Markwayne Mullin challenged the president of the Teamsters Union to a fistfight.
It all escalated after Mullin read tweets the Teamsters' president Sean O'Brien had written in the past, critical of the senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLIN: Sir, this is a time, this is a place you want to run your mouth. We can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here.
O'BRIEN: Ok. That's fine, perfect.
MULLIN: You want to do it now?
O'BRIEN: I'd love to do right now.
MULLIN: Well, stand your butt up then.
O'BRIEN: You stand your butt up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on. Stop it.
(CROSSTALKING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Oh no, sit down.
(CROSSTALKING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down. You know, you're a United States senator. Act it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down please.
MLLIN: All right.
O'BRIEN: Can I respond?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold it. Hold it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Well, it turns out that Mullin and O'Brien have since made up, breaking bread in an Italian restaurant here in Washington.
And that's according to Senator Mullin, who I caught up with at the RNC this past week. He told me former President Trump pushed them to reconcile.
[08:54:51]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLIN: Obviously, there's a little tiff between Sean and I. And he says you two need to meet. You two need to meet. And so he helped facilitate that. Sean and I met. We put, as you'd say, bury the hatchet, we had a good conversation. I really enjoyed getting to know him.
RAJU: So you guys are friends now?
MULLIN: Yes, we're building a friendship. Sean really did show humility. I walked in there, kind of skeptical, kind of on guard. And soon as I walked up, Sean just stood up. He shook my hand. He says, look, I'm sorry.
RAJU: Did you apologize also?
MULLIN: Yes. Well, I mean, always we can handle things differently, right. And that's what I said. I can always handle things differently. I just didn't know where else to go.
Maybe I could be more articulate with words, but at some point, words stop me and action takes place. It was like man, I'm just like, you understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Now, O'Brien spoke of the RNC and made a joke about the whole incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: To paraphrase Senator Markwayne Mullin it's time for both sides of Congress to stand there, butt up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: All right. That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju, of course follow the show @INSIDE POLITICS and in case you miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get your podcast, just search for INSIDE POLITICS.
Up next "STATE OF THE UNION with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.
Jakes' guests include Speaker Mike Johnson, Colorado Governor Jared Polis, Senator Joe Manchin, Congressman Jim Clyburn.
Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us and we're going to see you next time.
[08:56:16]
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