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Special Counsel Asks To Delay Trump Election Case Into September; Wisconsin Swing Voters Weigh In On New Democratic Ticket; Marking 50 Years Since Richard Nixon Resigned. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired August 09, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:26]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: There's a new push to delay Donald Trump's federal election subversion trial, but this time, it's the special counsel, not Trump's lawyers, trying to slow things down. Jack Smith's team wants more time to figure out how to move forward after the Supreme Court granted Trump immunity for official acts.

Paula Reid is covering this for us. And Paula, the judge had wanted to get pre-trial proceedings going again. You've got brand new reporting about what's actually going on behind the scenes here. What do you know?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, Phil, today was the deadline for the special counsel and the defense attorneys to submit their proposal for how to move forward, and the judge had encouraged both sides to -- to try to collaborate, find some areas of agreement. And I've learned that there were multiple calls this week between Trump attorneys and prosecutors.

There's no love lost, though, between the two sides of this case, Phil, I can tell you. So it's not surprising that they weren't able to really find any areas of commonality that they could agree on in terms of how to move forward. But what was surprising, even shocking, is that on a call yesterday, prosecutors revealed to the defense that they wanted more time, that they need more time before they can even figure out how to move forward with this case.

And that's really shocking because it's been prosecutors. They have been the ones trying to push to bring this case to trial before the 2024 election. Of course, the Supreme Court eventually intervened on this question of immunity and saying that Trump does have some immunity here. The prosecutors don't really understand what that looks like yet when it comes to this case because the Supreme Court has said you can't charge him for official acts.

You also, they said, can't charge him for unofficial acts and use any official acts as evidence to support that. So, these are issues that are going to have to be litigated. And right now, prosecutors say they need more time to talk to the experts within the Justice Department about how they're even going to proceed.

MATTINGLY: Paula, to ask the kind of obvious layman question here, does this mean that there's just no chance anything will go to trial before the election?

REID: Yes, that is absolutely a -- a safe bet. And then all eyes are on what happens with the election, right? If Trump is reelected, his attorney general will throw out both of these federal cases. The remaining case down in Georgia will likely be stalled. And up in Manhattan, they're also taking a look at what the Supreme Court decision means for that case.

It is expected that the conviction will stand. Trump could even be sentenced before the election. But again, if he's not elected, it's still unclear exactly what happens with these cases. But it will clearly be a lawyer full employment act as it has been for the past few years.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Fascinating reporting on those phone calls as well. Paula Reid, as always, thanks so much.

Well, up next, we'll check the pulse of the people. Wisconsin swing voters weigh in on Harris, Trump, and the political decision they're facing in a key battleground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just whatever he feels like he needs to say to rise out of people. She can be childish, she can be a cat lady, she can, whatever. She can be any of those things and still be a good leader.

[12:35:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I won't vote for Kamala Harris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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MATTINGLY: Wisconsin and its 10 electoral votes could be decisive in Novem -- in November. So we want to take some time to listen to what voters there have to say, especially in the swingiest of voters in the swingiest of states. These are Wisconsinites who voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020. Here they are weigh -- weighing in on Vice President Kamala Harris taking over the Democratic ticket. Many say they're feeling some Barack Obama vibes.

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[12:40:06]

TYLER B., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: I think she's similar because she's confident in what she says, but she's not egotistical. She's compassionate on the way she speaks and the way she delivers things. TAMMY S., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: I feel like I could probably get into, a really good conversation with both of them, and they would actually listen.

DOLLY A., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: When she talks, she does it with a sense of authority. And that means a lot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Our thanks to Rich Tao and Engagious for that. Eight of the 12 voters in the group say they'll vote for Harris. One would vote for Trump, two for RFK, one won't vote. I think what's fascinating when you listen, look, it's focus groups, we talk about polls being a snapshot in time, it's a snapshot of 12 people who voted specific ways in '16 and '20. Four of the 12 said they plan not to vote for Biden and will now vote for Harris. I guess the question that I've had throughout is, is this a durable shift, in a tangible shift, or is this just the moment we're in?

JASMINE WRIGHT, POLITICS REPORTER, NOTUS: I think it is all three. I think it is the moment. I think Democrats are feeling optimistic again because they have a person at the top of the ticket that they feel can actually go out and make the case against Trump. Something that, yes, people in D.C. did not feel that President Biden could do. But people out in the states also didn't feel that President Biden could do.

I think that people are feeling more optimistic just about where America is right now. I think they have a little bit more money in their pocket, even if they're -- even the prices are still high. I think that they, I mean, the stock market was a thing a couple, a week ago, but I think that, you know, financially, people may be feeling a little bit, a little bit smidgen better. And also they don't necessarily connect the negativity about the economy to the Vice President just yet.

And so I think that it is all three. It is a feeling of momentum shifting things in favor of the Democratic ticket. That just did not exist four weeks ago.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you on the economy, they have some really fascinating comments or perceptions about the NABJ thing that I want to ask you about a sec, but since we're talking about the economy, why is that? Like, why is Harris not necessarily tagged with the same kind of view that Biden was? Because actually, take a listen to this being asked about the economy, what some of them said.

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LINDSAY S., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: If the situation was different and we were able to have better wages, I could go out and do other things that are luxurious. Like a gym membership, or if I want to get another car, just little things in your life that are going to make you as a person happy, I can't do because at the end of the day, it's a luxury. It's not a necessity. So I have to tell myself, no, you can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And -- and what was interesting about, fascinating for me about that quote is that's the breathing room that Joe Biden would always talk about. The -- the focus group when asked about Trump's economic policies, weren't super excited about them. They also acknowledge they think the economy now is in lousy shape, but they weren't blaming Harris for it.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. I mean, look, this -- this is an age old thing that we found in polling cycle after cycle that people talk about the economy, what they're really talking about often is how they feel about the person who's in charge. They clearly felt that Biden was old and that they didn't feel enthusiastic about voting for him. That was true before the debate. It was more true after the debate.

They feel more enthusiastic about Kamala Harris, whether they are core Democrats or some of these swing voters who are being pulled in. And -- and -- and -- and if that's the general feeling, it can tap into what is just realistically bet -- a better economic situation now than was true four years ago, right? And so that's -- that's the question for Harris.

SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: And that's the big challenge for Donald Trump's campaign, has been defining Harris and tying her to Joe Biden's policies, which they've really been trying to do over the past few weeks. They've been trying to argue. She is the vice president. She's just as responsible for the last four years as Joe Biden is. It doesn't seem to be hitting quite yet. I think the big question is, does it eventually shift if she does more off the cuff interviews, if she has seen more often? We don't know yet, really.

TAPPER: Yes. Look, this is a huge advantage for Trump and Trump's team. And when Trump talks on message, it is the economy, it's inflation, it's immigration. And those three issues, they are like plus 15 or 20 and everything you see in terms of national mood. And if that starts to shift, it's a huge problem.

The other problem too, is listen to how the focus group reacted to Donald Trump's appearance at NABJ.

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LINDSAY S.: He's just basically saying that she -- she can't, she's only just, you know, pandering to whatever she feels and she can be both Indian American and black.

JERRY M., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: I feel like it's very racist and ignorant.

TIERRA H., WISCONSIN TRUMP-BIDEN VOTER: Ignorant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why -- why would you even say something like that? Like, it's just foolish.

TIERRA H.: It's just disheartening to hear that from someone who's leading a country full of a mixing pot of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:45:04]

MATTINGLY: We should note, everyone said they were troubled by particularly the Kamala Harris came black comments. One person said they thought Trump said them because they were true at one point, but everybody else, everyone was troubled by it. And I think to your point earlier, which the through line between Biden and Harris is they just want Trump out there. And people remember on some level. What does the campaign think about that?

TALCOTT: Yes. So I -- I think it's interesting because when I go out and talk to voters, who are critical of Donald Trump most often it's because of comments like that. It's because of his -- his posts on Truth Social. And -- and a lot of people just say, you know, I liked his policies XYZ, but I just wish he would take a step back.

And it's interesting too because there's sort of been a shift, a lot of what the campaign is doing and the Super PAC associated with the campaign is focusing on the traditional issues, on the economy, on immigration, on the border. And then you see Donald Trump sort of getting into this different message. And now you have a campaign that's trying to figure out how do we sort of placate the candidate, while also focusing on the -- the -- these issues that voters care about that are, you know, arguably what they want to hear more than this, you know, DEI and -- and whatnot.

WRIGHT: But I would just say that the campaign, the Trump campaign has been arguing for a month now that they were going to change, that he was going to change, that he was going to be this reformed candidate, that he was going to talk about unity, that he was going to talk about coming together.

Listen, I was in that room at NABJ in Chicago last week. That was not about unity. That was about the former president making a point on that stage because we all know that Kamala Harris has always been black. Yes, she is also South Asian American, but she is black. That is not something that people just thought was not true, right?

So I just -- I -- I think that the campaign really feels as though they don't know what to do with the former president because he is going back to that 2016 grievance argument that was successful in 2016, but it doesn't feel as successful right now.

MATTINGLY: Right. Right now, it's a reminder of 2017 through 2020. All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Coming up, 50 years after Richard Nixon's resignation, how the landscape of Washington and the Republican Party has changed since Watergate.

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[12:51:41] MATTINGLY: Fifty years ago today, Richard Nixon left office in the wake of the Watergate scandal. At this exact time, Nixon was flying home to California after saying goodbye to his staff, walking out of the White House, boarding the military helicopter on the South Lawn, you see it right there, and giving the iconic wave to the crowd. To this day, he remains the only president to resign from his post. CNN presidential historian and former director of the Nixon Presidential Library, Timothy Naftali joins me now. Tim, one of the questions that I've had a lot over the course of the last four or five years is, is that moment where the president looked around, realized he had not just lost support of his party, but also the American people, is that even possible anymore in the current way things are from a partisan basis?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's highly unlikely that that would happen in the current political climate for -- for two reasons. One members of the president's party are unlikely in this era to do what Republicans did in 1974, which is to look at the evidence and see that the -- as the founders wanted that there was a president who had violated his oath.

And it would committed high crimes and misdemeanors, which meant it committed acts that put our constitutional system in peril. And so they voted against their party's president. That's the first difference. It wouldn't happen today. Secondly, in 1974, there was one pool of facts. There weren't alternate facts.

The House Impeachment Committee looked at a set of facts. To a certain extent, people outside through the media saw facts. And so, on the basis of those facts, the American people agreed with their elected representatives and felt that Richard Nixon should go. In this era, we have multiple pools of facts. People get -- are getting confused about which facts matter. And I think it'd be very hard to move members of a -- a president's party to understand that, oh, my goodness, what the president is spinning, what he's saying, isn't true, and it matters.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I mean, twice impeached, criminally convicted, indicted as many times as he has been, and I don't think Donald Trump's ever been more powerful in the Republican Party. One of the questions we -- we're all trying to figure out, should Trump win, which seems at worst a 50-50 shot right now when you look kind of where things stand. He has been very clear that he's learned a lot of lessons and he has a lot of plans for a second term.

He has a lot of people around him that want to implement those plans. You think back to what Nixon was doing at the time with the FBI launching investigations on political enemies. The -- a lot of changes were made after Nixon left to prevent stuff like that from happening. Do you feel like the pendulum has swing back -- swung back the other way?

NAFTALI: Absolutely. In fact, because of the Supreme Court's decision, Trump versus the United States. The Supreme Court has in many ways given cover to a future president who wants to engage in the abuses of power that Richard Nixon committed. Richard Nixon, by the way, if he would have been impeached, the process ended fast because he resigned. He -- one of the articles of impeachment passed by 70 percent of the House Impeachment Committee, in other words, Republicans voted for this, was an abuse of powers article. And that involved misusing federal power to go after your enemies. Exactly the behavior that candidate Trump has promised to engage in during his rallies.

[12:55:13]

MATTINGLY: Yeah. It's a very different political moment. Nobody better to explain that to us than you, Tim. We appreciate your time as always. Thanks so much.

NAFTALI: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: And thanks for joining Inside Politics. Dana is back this Sunday on State of the Union. She's got two huge interviews lined up, Republican Vice Presidential nominee, J.D. Vance and Senator Bernie Sanders. Watch this Sunday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. CNN News Central starts after the break. Have a great weekend.

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