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Casualties Reported at a High School in Georgia After Reports of a Shooting; One Suspect in Custody. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: And this isn't saying that it wasn't effective. There have been studies and reviews of that legislation which still in kind of nascent stages. But they believe it has had some effect. Where does this go from here, from a policy perspective? It's mental health on one side, it's gun laws and the Second Amendment on another side. The Second Amendment exists. That's the reality. We don't know what happened here.

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Right.

MATTINGLY: Which I always feel like it's an important point people should make upfront. We have no idea what happened, how it happened, whose fault it was, who did what. What we do know is this keeps happening.

MASON: Bingo. It keeps happening and that to the frustration of I think a lot of Americans, regardless of what side of the political aisle they're on. Certainly on the Democratic side that Molly was referring to, gun violence protection groups have a long list of ideas and policy proposals of what could still be done, and a good chunk of those were enacted during the Biden Administration, including the creation of a Gun Violence Protection Office at the White House, which Vice President Harris leads. She also talks about it on the campaign trail.

She's talks with disgust about the number of students that she has spoken to who raised their hands when she has asked how many of you have had to prepare for a potential shooting at your school. And surely, if they had a Democratic Congress fully in 2025, I think -- and Harris were to win, there would be more policy proposals that they would seek to get done. But the truth is, it's been a stalemate politically for a long, long time. I grew up in Littleton, Colorado. The fabric of our community there, as well as the fabric of our country, are tinged by these repeated school shootings that have just been happening for decades now.

MATTINGLY: David, oftentimes -- and as Nia put it so perfectly, in intractable situations, it's public pressure, it's the momentum in the wake of a terrible situation that creates kind of the space and environment for changes which again helped drive the bipartisan effort that took place in terms of what happened in the Biden Administration a couple of years ago. When you -- you are numbers guy, you know kind of where voters are and what they're thinking in any given moment. How much does school shootings to guns this type of violence kind of rate in terms of how voters are looking at what's ahead?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I mean the awful reality is that it goes up in voters' minds when an incident like this is on their screens. We are talking about the intersection of politics and this. This is taking place in one of the most contested states in the election. So this is going to be on the screens terribly, tragically, for Georgia voters to be looking at for quite some time here, no doubt. And we do see the issue sort of raising the consciousness of voters when that happens. And then it fades again as headlines move on. I don't know that it never fades obviously for those that are impacted.

Just looking at the picture, every one of those kids you see out there is going to go home tonight, like rattled and even if they were not directly in the moment, this will impact them, their families that -- their community at, large like that kind of effect no doubt will take place here. When you were getting the news from Nick, Phil, and you said one of the things that we don't know yet is the scale of this. I mean, that's what we've come to in this regularity thing of this happening in America, is that the question now that we are waiting to learn is, well, what is the scale of this? It's not suggesting -- I'm not -- (inaudible) it's not the right question. It's just such a perverse question that we have to ask as we look at these incidents, because they have becomes so regular.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, it's such an important point and connecting what you said with Jeff said in terms of the fabric of a community being forever shaken, we talk about the victims, we talk about their parents, the horrors they went through, and our prayers for them, but also the thousands upon thousands of kids who have been in these schools. Now, the school has enrollment of 2,000. There's another 2,000 kids who will be living with this moment. At the same time, a lot of people -- a lot of kids are going back to school. A lot of parents are taking their kids back to school, in which, whether you want to consider it or not, thinking about this as a parent as you drop your child off at school, that's something that's just unavoidable at this point.

We will continue with the updates again, what we know at this point in time in Winder, Georgia at Apalachee High School, there is one suspect that is in custody. Police and law enforcement officials responded to a call of an active shooter at 10:23 this morning. We know there are casualties according to the sheriff's office. We don't know how many or what their condition is at this point. We do know that at least one gunshot wound victim has been taken to one of the trauma hospitals nearby. We will keep you posted when we come back.

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[12:39:15]

MATTINGLY: We are following the breaking news in Georgia. Casualties reported at a high school after reports of a shooting. We are told a suspect is in custody. We also now have a statement from the White House saying, "President Biden has been briefed by his homeland security adviser on the tragic shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia. And his administration will continue coordinating with federal, state, and local officials as we receive more information,"

Vice President Kamala Harris is currently in the air traveling to her campaign event. We will wait to see what she has to say. The former president as well, Donald Trump also waiting for what he has to say. We will get that to you as soon as we know it.

Right now, we want to go to CNN's Isabel Rosales, who is on the scene. Isabel, you are on the ground there. What have you seen? What are you learning right now?

[12:40:00]

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Hey, Phil, it's been (inaudible) even just rolling up to the school. Two to three blocks out, we saw a line of cars, of parents parking their vehicles off to the side of the road and then just rushing out of their cars, obviously trying to make their way up to school. I could see their faces just going past them, clearly worried, understandably in shock at what's going on here. We know from the Barrow County sheriff's office that casualties have been reported here at Apalachee High School and that one suspect is in custody. And I don't know if you can hear this, Phil, behind me but there's so much going on. So many police vehicles, fire and rescue here too.

We've seen a helicopter overhead, multiple law enforcement agencies. We know from a source at a local hospital tell CNN that received with gunshot wounds related to this incident. And over at Grady Memorial Hospital, that's a level-one trauma center, they have received one gunshot wound victim. And of course, what about the students here? This incredibly scary situation that's just becoming a real concern in America is that the parents (inaudible) you don't ever want to see your child go through something like this. We saw earlier in the day, students gathered at the football field here.

But we have been told by the school system that the students have been cleared to be picked up. Their parents have been notified. We did see in an instance from a helicopter footage the students appearing to be praying at one moment. The system, the school system has not said what exactly happened that led to this situation, but Phil, a very, very scary situation. We are asking the questions, trying to figure out what happened out here.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. And please keep us posted as you do, as we all know, Isabel is reporting that there's just kind of a dearth of information in these initial stages. Appreciate that reporting. Isabel Rosales, who is on the ground at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia. CNN Security Correspondent, Josh Campbell is back with us now. So is CNN National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem.

Josh, we have the kind of baseline reporting as you just heard from Isabel kind of filling us in on where things currently stand. Given how many of these types of situations you've covered, we've all experienced, how -- what are the motives here? Why would something like this happen? JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that is something that law enforcement certainly is trying to drill down on, to try to understand why did this person go to this particular school, open fire, resulting in these casualties. We see, I guess this is an indictment of culture in America right now, that there's so many of these shootings that once people tend to find out, OK, how many victims were there, how many people killed, how many people injured, people kind of move on. But for law enforcement, it's so critical to actually get to that motive. Why did the person do that?

Not only because there could be some type of potential prosecution, we know that the suspect here is now in custody. One major question I have is someone in custody that doesn't mean that they're necessarily communicative. We don't know if that person was taken into custody without incident, whether there was any type of exchange of gunfire, whether the person is alive right now for that matter. We've seen law enforcement use that phrase in custody so often to mean many different things, but that is key, if the person is able to talk to law enforcement, they can potentially glean what that motive actually is.

But absent that, they're looking at people who might have been in the shooter's orbit. They're looking at any potential online footprint, social media, the so-called digital exhaust that we all have in this connected world online to try to understand who this person was. Was this someone who had perhaps telegraphed that they were about to do something like this either online or the people that they may have known, or was this someone who didn't have those kind of outside connections? But it's so key not only in this case because -- but also because law enforcement continues to look and try to prevent the next one from happening, those so-called lessons learned.

We've seen so many instances, Phil, you and I have been reporting on the last few months. I was talking with you about a recent FBI study where they've learned that in so, so many of these shootings, we see time and again that someone in the shooter's orbit knew something. They just for whatever reason decided, I'm not going to call law enforcement. Chief among those reasons, I talked to FBI profilers who say that a lot of times people just don't want to get the person in trouble or they think that this might be some type of overreaction to actually call and try to get someone help.

But what law enforcement says all the time is that that doesn't just involve calling the police. Certainly, if you think someone is about to commit some type of act of violence, you want to call law enforcement. But there are other resources, getting people mental health treatment if it seems that they're off, that they've withdrawn from society. And so again, the motive is key here, not only in this case, but also the lessons learned for all us, not just law enforcement, but members of the public as well, but the warning signs to look out for, Phil.

[12:45:00]

MATTINGLY: Juliette, based on what we've seen from the aerial footage, we know that there was a lockdown, clearly, that has been lifted. The students have been streaming out throughout the course of this hour. As Isabel reported, their parents were told that they could come pick them up. What's going on inside the school, right -- the law enforcement, what are they doing right now?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, there's two different pieces going on now. The good news is, is that family unification is happening. That means the threat is gone. We know that. That also means that there's a least enough stability over the physical site that they have comfort family members going there. A lot of times, you know, you just you want to keep family away because of ongoing concerns about maybe they don't know how much damage there is. It seems like they now understand what kind of incident it was, how many potential -- how many casualties have occurred and that parents can come to the school.

That's the most important thing. You want to get parents with their students. It's relatively the beginning of the school year, so there might be new parents, definitely new students who'd simply want to get out of there for now until they figure out what happened. So the first piece and that's the good news in this world of bad news in school shootings. The second is now the investigation, as Josh was laying out so clearly, this investigation will now look to both the physical side of it, how was entry -- how did entry happened? Was this unknown assailant? Was this a student, faculty, staff, parent? We don't know. Where he -- assuming, he -- where he went and why he went there? That is very key.

If you have a low casualty or fatality count, there might be a more specific reason for the shooting as compared to something where you might see a greater harm. So we are just -- they're just looking at that to see sort of access points and why would they choose these particular people to shoot at? Or was it completely random? This is a relatively sophisticated state police. So as we know, these suburban or even more than suburban districts, often the state police are sort of the lead can these investigations and we should, I hope, hear from them soon more formally, so that people can know the extent of the damage.

The larger debate about guns and guns and school, this particular American nightmare that we encounter every few weeks now, or every few weeks now, we'll then -- we'll find out what kind of gun he has and how he accessed that.

MATTINGLY: Juliette, can I ask you -- you said he.

KAYYEM: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I'm not calling --

KAYYEM: That I call (ph) myself -- and then --

MATTINGLY: No, no, no, but it's actually -- there's an important point kind of underneath that I think on some level. We don't know who the suspect is. It has not -- the individual has not been identified by the sheriff's office.

KAYYEM: Yeah. MATTINGLY: But my assumption is there's actually a reason why you said he, not tied to this specific case, but tie to all of these. Explain that.

KAYYEM: Yeah. I mean, look, I've been -- yeah, I've been here long -- I have been around long enough to know that the vast majority of these are happening by 18 to 25 year old men. I don't call them boys; these are men. Sometimes even younger. We have a problem in this country of isolation or radicalization. I don't -- I'm not saying the motive is political, but just radicalization to the extent that you would use guns for this kind of violence. And the sense that disagreements, concerns, depression, everything else will get worked out through gun violence.

So you have that pool of men just -- I'm just talking statistically. We don't know if this is the case, right? So that pool of men, young men, and then access to guns. So that's why you're seeing a lot of -- on the policy side. So now, stepping back, I understand this is a tragedy, but it's also a policy tragedy. That's why you're seeing focus in some states around access to certain guns for certain ages. And so -- and that might be a legitimate issue. So you've got the gender with the isolation or radicalization or whatever is happening, not always mental disability, and then the access issue. That's what makes the United States unique in terms of shootings.

Lots of countries have issues of men and violence and depression or isolation. But it's the access issue that makes the carnage of school shootings so unique. And so, we'll get to the motive. We'll get to the access issue. The vast majority of these are males. I caught myself, we don't know that for a fact, but I would be -- let's put it this way. I would be surprised if it were a female.

MATTINGLY: No, and that's exactly why I wanted to ask the question.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Because Josh and I were talking earlier, what's through line, what's the kind -- if there's connective tissue behind the perpetrators of these, just seemingly constant tragedies and you just identified kind of the key components that we've seen in almost every case, or at least the vast majority of the cases.

[12:50:00]

Juliette Kayyem, Josh Campbell, us (ph) -- stick with us. We got a lot more to come as we continue to follow the breaking news. Again, what we know right now, one suspect is in custody. Law enforcement officials were called at 10:23 a.m. to respond to a reported active shooter. We know according to the sheriff's office, there are casualties. We don't know how many or what their condition is at this point. We will continue to keep you updated. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: We are back with the breaking news. You have been watching on your screen footage throughout the course of the last hour from Winder, Georgia. There has been a shooting -- or there was an active shooter at a high school in Winder, Georgia, just about 45 miles east of Atlanta, Georgia, enrollment about 2,000 people. We know at this point in time, according to the sheriff's office, there are casualties. We don't know how many or what their current status is. We do know a suspect is in custody.

I want to bring back in Josh Campbell. Josh, we are talking throughout the course of the hour about kind of the breaking news, what is happening on the ground, but also the reality here, which is this keeps happening over and over again, and it does not happen in other places. When you talk to law enforcement officials, what are they looking for in terms of policy solutions, things that could change this dynamic?

CAMPBELL: I was listening earlier to your panel with David Chalian and some of her colleagues. And I mean, it was so fascinating, so enlightening when you talk about the politics of the gun issue.

[12:55:00]

Because one thing that I've noticed in covering so many of these mass shootings is that there is no longer -- there doesn't seem to be this taboo to start talking about potential solutions. We are now literally in the middle of an incident that hasn't totally been resolved yet and yet we continue can you to hear from lawmakers and others saying that look, there are policies here that should be debated. Whereas if you look years ago, a decade ago, there used to be kind of a cudgel (ph). People would say, well, don't politicize this. It's too soon. That seems to have gone out the window because we know that so many of these shootings happen time and again.

Regardless of where one comes down now on the gun control debate, that's something obviously that a lot of people have very strong beliefs on. Interestingly, in talking to members of law enforcement, what we hear so often from the police is that they're looking especially for some of these higher powered firearms to provide some type of limitation about who can actually get access to those. Because we so often hear from police chiefs and others that it's their officers who are often on the frontlines of receiving bullets from these type of weapons. And so, there's the whole issue about regulation of guns.

But interestingly, one thing that we've continued to see is though, although this seems to be intractable at the federal level, we have seen many different states actually trying to take action, enacting things like universal background checks, which by the way, if you think about -- as polarized as this nation is right now, polling on universal background checks actually shows that about 85 percent to 90 percent of Americans are in favor of that. Doing some type of cursory search make sure people who get access to guns aren't the type of people that would go on to commit violence, Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right. Josh Campbell for us. He has been with us throughout the hour, walking us through this breaking news. We don't know a lot and we don't know motive. We don't know the type of gun. We don't know any of those issues right now. We do know that once again, this has happened at an American school. That's it for "Inside Politics." Our breaking news coverage continues with "CNN News Central" after the break.

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