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Harris Vs. Trump: Crucial Debate Tonight In Philadelphia; Longwell: The More That Undecided Voters See Of Harris, The More They Like Her; Trump Accuser Says She "Laughed Out Loud" When She Heard Him Again Deny Her Sexual Assault Allegation. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired September 10, 2024 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[12:33:29]
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Fifty-six days until the election, so is the Harris honeymoon over? That is the talking point from the Trump campaign. Some Democrats are worried maybe that's a yes, especially after the New York Times/Siena College poll seemed to show her momentum has stalled. The Bulwark's Sarah Longwell, on the other hand, says, hell no.
Longworth -- Longwell writes, "The Case For Staying Optimistic About Harris. Undecided voters haven't turned on her. They just need to hear more from her. The debate is an opportunity to start closing the deal." Longwell conducted nearly a dozen focus groups with swing and persuadable voters and says, the more they see Harris, the more they like her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVIA: I'm definitely leaning more towards her. It's nice to hear a candidate who I feel like can like finish a thought through from beginning to end and like actually has a point to make.
ELIZABETH: She is definitely like way more energetic than Biden, that doesn't take a lot. Yes, it was definitely like a relief to have somebody that, I mean, in respect to Biden, is young. She's willing to like fight Trump, you know. I think she will really like call him on his crap. And so that's good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Joining me now is Sarah Longwell of Bulwark and the host of the "Focus Group" podcast. It's so great to see you.
SARAH LONGWELL, PUBLISHER, THE BULWARK: Thanks for having me.
BASH: Thank you for coming in. I always love talking to you about what you learn from these persuadable swing voters. What's your sort of big picture takeaway in addition to what we just said about the piece that you wrote?
[12:35:01] LONGWELL: Yes, so, I mean, look, I've been listening to voters talk about Kamala Harris now for years because she was the vice president. And people would always say, look, I don't see her, I don't know her, I don't know what she does. And so they had this kind of negative impression of her.
But as she has become the presidential candidate for a lot of Democrats, like the speed and alacrity with which she just reconstituted that Democratic coalition was wild because I was watching people really fall away from Joe Biden, even soft Democrats. And so now we're in persuasion territory, right?
She's got a win over these sort of right leaning independents, these soft GOP voters, and they're still in the, well, I don't know that much about her, I'd like to hear more. But what's interesting to me is, those voters, they are out on Trump. Like, when you see a poll, like the New York Times poll, what you see is that Trump is stuck at 46 percent, 47 percent. That's his ceiling.
He doesn't have anywhere to go. She's got room to grow. And so she's got -- but that this group, it's like, it's not enough just to vote against Trump. She's got to give him a reason to be for her. And that's what they're looking for. They want to be like, yes, I like this thing about her as opposed to I'm just doing it because I hate Trump.
BASH: And on that, there -- you're talking about people who have already moved away from Trump, but you also have a group of people who you have spoken to who are still considering voting for Trump, but also -- voting for Trump, but also considering voting for Harris. Let's listen to some of them.
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GREG: She was a prosecutor, so, I mean, in that respect, she's going to have a little bit more idea of what's right and wrong. I like her. I'm not a Democrat, I don't care about the Democrats that much. But her, I would vote for simply because of the foundation she's got under her.
SHEILA: She's a child of immigrants, so I think that's going to help her understand both sides of the border issue. She reminds me a lot of Obama, just the way she carries herself, the way she speaks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That's so fascinating.
LONGWELL: Yes, it is. I mean, basically what these voters have been saying is, I'm open, like, give me a pitch, and they also talk about how much they don't like Trump. And so one of the things that's interesting in this dynamic is, the more people see of Kamala, the more they like her.
The more people see of Trump, the less they like him, and that has always been true about Donald Trump. That is why his campaign team, you know, for all their bluster about, oh, you don't see her, it's him they often are like, here, give us your phone and go to the golf course. Because they want this guy out of the public eye, because they can see the relationship to Donald Trump being high profile in the news and his approval ratings going down among these swing voters.
BASH: And just going back to what you said about people still learning, about Kamala Harris. Again, I've said this before, I'll say it now. It's completely understandable. Most people don't have a clue about vice presidents on either side of the aisle, unless there are extraordinary times. And with her in particular, that was the case.
Tom Friedman wrote an op-ed this week that's entitled, "The 23 Words Harris Needs To Say To Win. Joe and I got a lot of things right, but we got some things wrong too -- and here is what I have learned." You think that's good advice?
LONGWELL: It's -- I agree with the spirit of the advice. So, in the sense that, look, I think that what voters really have their antennas up for is authenticity. I think what Kamala has struggled with in the past is, look, it's hard being the vice president. You got to be out there on somebody else's behalf, right? You don't get to say what you think.
I even think part of the reason she seemed to struggle a little bit in 2019 is because she was trying to run to the left of this big Democratic field. I'm not sure that's who she is. I think that she needs to go in there and say what's true. I know this is crazy advice, but I think she should say what's true. She should say, if she thinks that she and Joe Biden got some things wrong, she should say they got some things wrong.
I do think voters really like it when they actually hear a politician say something like, you know, while I was vice president, I learned a lot about how to be president for all Americans. But I think that we play a parlor game here in D.C. of like, she has to say these words. This is exactly how she has to do it.
Look, she has been so much better at this when she has been able to speak for herself and say exactly what she thinks. And so I think she should go in there and be as authentic a version of herself as possible. Say what's true to her because I think for her to win this debate, she has got to -- people have got to be like, I see this, I like this and I think there's a lot of -- I was listening to your panel beforehand, this question about should she try to rattle Trump? Here's what rattles Trump.
A woman showing a competent command of the policy details and sort of what she believes, that'll rattle him plenty. He rattles himself. She doesn't need to do things to get under his skin. Forget about him. Talk to the American people. They want to meet you.
BASH: Well, that's one of the things I was going to ask you, and that is about the sort of female factor and what you're hearing from your focus group participants, not about her in particular, but the way that they view him as he is facing a woman, but even more importantly, what he says and continues to say about women as he's running again. LONGWELL: Yes. You know, here's the thing about that I hear from voters which is, look, Donald Trump always wants to sort of tap in to an undercurrent of fear in the American people that a woman can't do this job.
[12:40:09]
And I hear voters articulate this a lot. They say things like, you know, other countries, you know, their leaders don't respect women. And so I'm just concerned about how a woman would be as president.
Here's the thing about Donald Trump. He's a little bit of a stand in for an autocrat. Somebody actually articulated this in one of the focus groups, how she handles Trump is going to project for voters how she would handle people like Vladimir Putin, how she would handle these autocrats across the world that I think these voters are concerned about.
And I think if she shows, like I said, command of the policy details, but also an unwillingness to sort of sink to his level and ability to handle him on the stage, that's the kind of thing that would give voters confidence, not just about her ability to beat Donald Trump, but her ability to deal with world leaders that yes, might be hostile toward the United States.
BASH: That is so interesting. Sarah, I always learn so much from you. Thank you so much for coming on.
LONGWELL: Thanks so much for having me.
BASH: Happy Debate Day.
LONGWELL: Yes. Happy Debate Day to you.
BASH: Thank you. And you are looking at live pictures of the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia where Kamala Harris and Donald Trump will meet on the debate stage tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. You can watch it all here live.
Follow CNN for complete coverage and exclusive analysis before and after the debate. I'm getting on a train right after this. But don't go anywhere yet, because up next, Anderson Cooper spoke exclusively with one of the women who accused Donald Trump of sexual assault. You're going to want to hear why she says his latest attacks on her made her literally laugh out loud.
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[12:46:13]
BASH: One of the women berated and belittled by Donald Trump after last week's hearing in the E. Jean Carroll sexual assault case is sharing her side of the story with CNN. After Friday's hearing, Trump not only attacked Carroll, he also went after Jessica Leeds. She says Trump groped her on an airplane in the 1970s.
He claimed that never could have happened because she, quote, "would not have been the chosen one." Here's what she told Anderson Cooper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA LEEDS, ACCUSED TRUMP OF GROPING HER IN 19170s: I laughed out loud. I couldn't believe that he was using that word like some sort of cult figure. I personally believe he has convinced himself to that it didn't happen. He is a predator of women. I was not the first. Of course I was not the last, but there have been enough so that he doesn't remember.
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BASH: Leeds was one of two women, E. Jean Carroll's lawyers, called to allege Trump had a pattern of sexually assaulting women and then attacking not just their credibility, but their appearances. You may remember Trump also said E. Jean Carroll was not his type and then mistook her for his ex-wife, Marla Maples, in a photo.
Coming up, undecided in Pennsylvania. They're the voters who may determine who wins this entire race. So what do they want to hear at the debate? You're going to find out after a quick break.
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[12:52:12]
BASH: Tonight's debate is taking place in a state that very well could choose the next president. And right now, the race is in a dead heat. I'm talking about Pennsylvania. And CNN's Jeff Zeleny has been talking to undecided voters in that battleground. What are you hearing from those voters about what they want to hear tonight, Jeff?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, there is no doubt that the base of both parties, Republicans and Democrats alike, are watching the debate through very different lenses than those undecided voters. And you do encounter them as you're talking with voters in Bucks County, as I did yesterday, just right outside Philadelphia.
And there is a through line to these conversations, even among voters who lean to the right and to the left. They want to hear more from Vice President Harris.
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ZELENY: Have you made a decision on who you're supporting?
GINA OLD, UNDECIDED PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: Not 100 percent yet, no.
ZELENY: So you're an undecided voter?
OLD: I am. I -- by nature, I am a Republican, always voted Republican. Not sure this year. Probably, will still vote for the Republican Party, but I'm not sure as far as if I'll write in somebody for the presidential.
ZELENY: Is there anything that Vice President Harris could say at the debate to get your support for her?
OLD: I'm not sure. I'll have to watch it and see.
MARY SUE FRANK, INDEPENDENT PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: Just for her to make a mark and just to do it with good intentions, with integrity. That's what I'm looking for.
ZELENY: And why not Trump?
FRANK: Just for a lot of reasons. I think number one is age. I find him to be a bully. I find her to be a bully. And just not classy to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So our conversations there with Gina Old and Mary Sue Frank really underscored the opportunities here for Vice President Harris to fill in some of the gaps about her, but also the potential risks if these voters don't like what she has to say. Again, of course, there are many solid supporters for the former president and for Harris on both sides of the bases.
But it's these undecided voters, these persuadable voters that really are watching this debate and they want to hear how she's going to differentiate herself from the Biden administration. And also Mary Sue Frank said, Dana, she wants the voters or the candidates rather to talk about the issues, not fight with one another. We will see if that happens.
BASH: Something tells me we won't be hearing about their golf games tonight. Pennsylvania is important. We know that. Can you detail how important it is?
ZELENY: Well, Dana, one of the reasons it's important, it's the biggest battleground in terms of electoral votes, 19 right here.
[12:55:05]
But even more than that, we talk about the blue wall a lot that Donald Trump won in '16, Biden won in '20. Look how often Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan vote together as a group. It has been since 1988 where there was an outlier in these three states here and only once before that in the last half century.
That is why so much attention, of course, is focused on Pennsylvania. But also it's neighboring states to the west. Dana?
BASH: God, I've never looked at the statistics like that. That's really fascinating and it puts it --
ZELENY: Yes.
BASH: -- explains the blue wall very, very well. You always explain everything very well with your terrific reporting and I'll see you later in Philly.
Thanks, Jeff.
ZELENY: We'll see you here, Dana.
BASH: And thank you for joining Inside Politics. Please follow CNN for complete coverage and exclusive analysis before and after the debate. The ABC News presidential debate simulcast tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. CNN News Central starts after a break.
