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Inside Politics

Harris Calls For Second Debate As Trump Says It Won't Happen; Two Schools In Springfield, Ohio Evacuated; Trump Spreads Racist Claim That Migrants Are Stealing, Eating Pet; GOP-Linked PAC Running Ads In MI Highlighting Emhoff's Jewish Faith; Kamala Harris: "We Are The Underdog" In This Race; Today: Harris Campaigns In Deep-Red Parts Of Pennsylvania. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 13, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on INSIDE POLITICS, refusing a rematch. Donald Trump says, he's done with debates. Now, this is a candidate who is known for his love of cameras and huge audiences. So, why is he turning down tens of millions of viewers.

Plus, we're halfway there. Dean Harris may be pumping up the Bon Jovi today, as they pass the midway point of their hyper speed campaign. We have new reporting on their strategy, as multiple top advisers say, if the election were next week, Donald Trump would win.

And Democrats are trying to win North Carolina. And it feels a little bit like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football, but they think this is the year they may be able to turn the Tar Heel State blue. I'll talk to the Republican tasked with stopping that push.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at INSIDE POLITICS.

This week, voters saw Kamala Harris and Donald Trump face off in their first debate. And now, it's looking like it may also be their last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Two nights ago, Donald Trump and I had our first debate. And I believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Later this hour, we will hear from Donald Trump, and he is expected to speak to reporters at his golf club near Los Angeles. My colleagues are there and ready to ask questions. If they are given that opportunity, we're going to bring it to you live. In the meantime, let's go straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who is waiting for that opportunity. Kristen, what are you hearing from team Trump?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Dana, we just don't know when it comes to Donald Trump. They said we were going to do a press conference last week in New York. Of course, he talked for over 60 minutes and then never took questions. Today, we are told he is going to speak for roughly 30 minutes and take questions, but of course, we'll wait and see.

Now, what is on Donald Trump's mind? What do we expect to hear in those 30 minutes? Likely what we've been hearing for the last 48 plus hours, which is the fact that Donald Trump is trying to relitigate the debate. He has been talking about it line by line in front of now more favorable crowds.

He was talking to yesterday in Tucson, attacking the moderators, going after the debate, saying that it was unfair, but also trying to claim that he won at the exact same time. We expect to hear that today. We also expect to hear him doubling down on these debunked rumors coming out of Springfield, Ohio.

It's something that he has stayed on social media, despite the fact that the city of Springfield has denied these accounts. And the mayor even said, we need help, not hate. But it is something that his campaign is clearly latching onto. They believe immigration is a key issue for them, and around that, fear mongering seems to be how they are going to hammer that issue home.

So, whether or not he takes questions that, of course, is our big question. We'll be waiting to ask him as he takes that stage today. But we just don't know what Donald Trump will do. There's nothing on the agenda. And as we know, Dana, when there's nothing on the agenda, it tends to be whatever comes to mind for Donald Trump.

BASH: You certainly know of what you speak. Kristen, thank you so much. Appreciate that. We will get back to you. And let's bring in a terrific group of reporters here. Kadia Goba of Semafor, Molly Ball of The Wall Street Journal, Heidi Przybyla of POLITICO, and CNN's Isaac Dovere. Happy Friday to everybody.

That was a deep sight. It is. I was trying to sort of put that out of my mind, but why not? So, I'm wondering what you are -- what sort of -- what's your takeaway of just quickly, sort of the debate over the debates, and sounds like there isn't going to be another debate?

KADIA GOBA, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yeah. It's funny. The night of the spin room, the night of the debate, we kind of wrote this piece where all the Republicans were saying, yeah, we should -- he should debate. He should debate again, including his own team. And then he just came out in the spin room and kind of threw water on it, and kind of said, well, we'll see.

[12:05:00] It was very clear at that point that there was not going to be another debate. And then, yes, he comes out and says it, it's the best outcome for Democrats or for the campaign, for the Kamala Harris campaign, because it essentially admits some kind of defeat to suggest that, you know, he doesn't need to do this again.

BASH: And I want you to listen Molly to something that a persuadable Trump voter in a focus group said about this very question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's start off with what she needs to do to move you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she needs more well-defined policy. I think she needs -- like Trump is clear on what he wants to do. I feel like he's articulated it over and over again on immigration, on taxes, on those types of things. I need that from her. I feel like she's been vague.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does Trump need to do to hold on to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He needs to be able to debate. I mean, he needs to do what Harris did yesterday, and act presidential and come in with facts and that aren't, you know, lies. And you know, be a believer, be a little bit more mature, I guess, as a leader.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I want to come back to the first voter who talked about the desire to hear more from Kamala Harris on policy. But that second voter, again, this is a Trump voter who could be persuaded to vote for Kamala Harris.

MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yeah. I think that's really interesting because, and we found this with some of the undecided voters that we spoke to as well. They felt like, even some of them, who -- most of them believe that Kamala Harris won the debate, but that wasn't enough for them because they still felt like they wanted more information about her.

So, she proved she can win a debate. That is -- that's a different bar for many voters than do they get my vote, right? They see that as sort of a discrete skill, and yes, if they had questions about her intelligence, if they had questions about her ability to be "presidential," they may have felt that she checked that box.

But there's a lot of them who still feel like they want more information, and so the Harris campaign is looking for different ways to fill in those blanks and get that information to the people who feel like that's what they need to be persuaded.

So, I agree with you. I think the fact that Trump is talking about this in win -- in loser terms, means that because, you know, there's a lot of questions about, does he really mean it when he says he's not going to debate again, or is this a negotiating tactic? But the fact that he said that only a loser would want to debate again sort of tells you where his head is at, I think.

BASH: Let's talk about Springfield, Ohio. The people of Springfield, Ohio, I should say, are -- they've really been bearing the brunt of this conspiracy that has been floated by their senator, J. D. Vance, who's running for vice president, and of course, the president -- the former president of the United States from the debate stage.

Today, two elementary schools were evacuated based on information received by the police. And this is because of these baseless claims that Haitian migrants are stealing and eating pets. I want you to listen to what Pete Buttigieg told Kaitlan Collins about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They take in the geese. You know where the geese are, in the park, in the lake, and even walking off with their pets. My dog's been taken. My dogs were stolen. This can only happen. These people are the worst.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a strategy, and there's even more to it than demonizing immigrants, although that's obviously part of what he's doing. This is a strategy to get us talking about the latest crazy thing that he did, whatever urban legend he amplifies. Right now, it's about people eating cats or geese or whatever, because he cannot afford for us to be talking about his record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEIDI PRZYBYLA, NATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Actually, numbers to back up what he says, right? We know it's a strategy, because we're seeing similar claims like this about immigrants, for instance, that Congo is pushing prisoners, emptying its prisoners, up through the southern border that the Venezuelans are doing that. And as long as people are talking about that, they're not talking about the issues.

And when I say there's numbers to back it up, there's polling that came out that showed when swing voters were presented simply with the facts of the economic plans of Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump, overwhelmingly they supported the Harris plan, or what we know about the Harris plan.

So, there are facts to back up what he's saying there. And this is something that Trump has done, and he's done it in every campaign, which is to play into people's existing biases and to the worst instincts of human nature that we are his audiences, in certain cases, are predisposed to want to believe these things.

I know this. My colleague was on a plane the other day, and she said, she saw a woman, very nice lady, who pulled up the video and said, look, you can't trust the media. This is how I know that this is true, that people's pets are being eaten, because I saw it in this video on YouTube, and that's where we are.

[12:10:00] BASH: Yeah. And I take your point. I mean, this is his original playbook that he keeps going back to Donald Trump. But I do feel like this time, things are different. The playing field is different because those are the people who he probably already has and people who are not so sure about him, because now they're being reminded of this crazy conspiracy stuff that he talks about are being reminded of this crazy conspiracy stuff.

When all they want to do, perhaps, is remember that they could afford their groceries. It works for his base. Let me clarify --

PRZYBYLA: Yeah. No, no, I know.

BASH: But like, aren't they already going out?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. I think it's important to think about the people who are watching the debate on Tuesday night, who are not us the political world, who are not as online as we all are. And heard without any context, Donald Trump say, and they're eating dogs that was from nowhere, right?

And so yes, it is a false story. It is a made-up story. It has at least a ribbon of racism running through it, if not more than a ribbon, but it is also just a strange thing that he is talking about. And wonder how viewers respond to that when they see somebody say something that sounds made up, is made up is weird.

And I don't say that in the Tim Walz way, it's a strange thing. If people are eating pets. What is he talking about. And I will tell you that at least from the Harris campaign's numbers that they were looking at on this when they did those dial groups, they had people twisting the dial one way or the other way. The thing that they found was the worst moment for Donald Trump was that.

BASH: That's really interesting. All right. I want to change subjects for a second and talk about something that is going on out there with Doug Emhoff. And specifically, there is an outside group, a PAC, that is running an ad that may seem on its face like it's rah, rah, let's support Kamala Harris and Doug Emhoff, because it would be history making, not just because of her, but because he would be the first Jewish first spouse.

Watch this, and we'll explain what it really means on the other end.

(PLAYING VIDEO)

BASH: Now I want to ask you about this, Heidi, because you are from Dearborn, Michigan. This is being run in Michigan, where the Republicans are trying to make mischief and try to play this, not because they're trying to appeal to people and say, please support Doug Emhoff because of this wonderful history that he would be the first Jewish first spouse.

But to the very large, perhaps Arab American vote and electorate, to say, do you really want this guy in the White House? PRZYBYLA: We have a massive middle eastern population in Dearborn, probably the biggest in the entire country. And it is already primed in that there are a lot of Arab Americans who are upset about Biden's handling of the war in Israel. They are primed in the sense that they tend to be kind of culturally conservative. That's like the history, and a lot of them were Republicans before the Iraq war.

After the war, after Trump's Muslim ban, not so much. All you have to do is get them to stay home. It's not about necessarily winning the votes over for Trump, but if you get them to stay home, go back to 2016 for instance. One of the last stops Hillary Clinton made on her campaign was Michigan, because they thought they had it, but then the numbers went sideways.

It wasn't necessarily Arab Americans that time, but we do know is that it can be very fluid, and so this is extremely strategic. And as Isaac said, if this is what they're doing now, just wait for the next few weeks in terms of targeting that population, which they obviously feel is right.

BASH: And we can't know -- yeah, and we can't know exactly who it is, but there are links to a man named Cabell Hobbs, who served as the treasurer for a Super PAC for Ron DeSantis. So, this is obviously coming from the Republican side of the ledger and trying to, you know, cause some confusion, but I just think it's pretty gross -- it's not just about Israel. They're trying to play on antisemitism.

DOVERE: Yeah. Look, and there is a thread that connects that to what we were talking about with the stuff out of Springfield. There are real policy issues here about what's going on in Gaza. There are real policy issues about immigration --

BASH: And that's not --

DOVERE: But this is being litigated on hate and fear.

BASH: Yeah. Got it. Yeah, very true. Don't go anywhere because there is a quiet confidence, but it's going to be a grind. That is how one aide described the mood inside Harris headquarters. We have new reporting from Isaac here on what they see as their path to 270. Don't go anywhere.

[12:15:00]

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BASH: It's half time for the Harris campaign. 54 days ago, the vice president jumped into this race. 53 days from now is election day. And as you can see, it has been a very busy stretch, with Kamala Harris making multiple stops in the battleground states. Today, she is back in Pennsylvania for the fourth time since President Biden dropped out. She says, she's just getting started.

[12:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: It's going to be a tight race until the end, and we are the underdog. Understand that we are the underdog.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And the panel is back. And Isaac, you have a terrific new piece that I recommend everybody go read on cnn.com. I'll show the headline how Harris aims to keep drawing eyeballs as the hard campaigning begins. Give us a synopsis.

DOVERE: Look, there was a leadership retreat in Delaware last week before the debate. And Jen O'Malley Dillon, who's the campaign chair, said to them. Listen, we do not have one clear path to 270 electoral votes, many possible pathways, but this is not something that they can count on as a win yet.

They feel good about the debate. They feel like that probably improved their chances, although it will probably take until next week to see what it really did in the polls. When they look at these states, they say Pennsylvania is possible, but really hard. Michigan and Wisconsin seem OK. North Carolina better than Arizona, strange.

Another thing that's going on here is that they don't think that we will necessarily see these states move as regional blocks, right? Talk about the blue wall always Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, that that could move in different directions and Georgia, North Carolina move in different directions, Arizona Nevada.

And so, they look at this race now as how do you keep the momentum going, that good vibe energy that was on full display in Chicago, but all through those first couple weeks of the Harris campaign. But that has been on a little bit of a pause over the last two and a half weeks with Harris or Labor Day and then debate prep.

They want to keep injecting as much energy into the system. Folks telling me, the interest will be lessened more deep policy rollouts and more about thinking things, you're like do. And can they figure out a way to get Beyonce out on the trail, right? Is Taylor Swift's endorsement going to come with maybe a campaign stop or two.

A concert that one person who's pretty involved in things, said to me, we're trying to figure out how to get Taylor Swift and Beyonce together. I mean, all these things of trying to make it more of a cultural phenomenon, going into it. A person saying to me, this is an unconventional campaign, and we can't do it in conventional way.

BASH: Yeah, I get that. But I want to go back to, so culture, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, to something that we heard from one of the undecided voters in that focus group from the last segment. And something that I'm hearing from a lot of people, which is, they're not a no to Kamala Harris, but they want to hear more policy. And what do you make of that, given the fact that Donald Trump is not held to that standard? Do you think policy is code for something else? I mean, it's just like they don't know her enough.

GOBA: No. I do think this is going to be a tight race, and those five to six percent of voters are looking for a very strategic plan moving forward. Like Molly pointed out, it's unfortunate she doesn't have that debate stage with millions of viewers to, you know, reiterate that. She's probably going to have to do it in small spurts throughout these swing districts.

I was talking to Clyburn, and it was interesting. And before Donald Trump announced that he wasn't going to debate again, he said he didn't think she needed to do another debate. What she needed to do is go to town hall situations and talk to the people and be more specific about her plans on moving the country forward with concrete stuff about how she's going to pay for things.

And I thought that was very interesting. This is a group that is really deciding on how, you know, policy will -- how policy is going to be different from Biden and Trump. So, I think she needs to do with that.

BASH: That's really interesting because that's what we keep hearing over and over. She's going to do it all. She's going to go to town hall. She's going to have meetings with voters. Today, she is -- as we said, going back to Pennsylvania.

Molly, where she is going, is fascinating, because she is going to the red parts, or as James Carville calls it, the Alabama parts of Pennsylvania. She is going to Cambria County and Luzerne County. Trump was won by 37 percentage points in 2020, and Luzerne is 14, but it's still a huge, huge Republican area.

BALL: And this is all about a strategy that just drive down those margins a little bit right and get incremental votes out of the places that you're not going to win. Because the counties, of course, are not winner take all. The state is tabulated statewide So anywhere you can get those votes, they're worth just as much, and they go to the statewide total.

I do think that when they say they want policy, she's put out policies, certainly about as much as Trump has at this point. I do think it's code for something else. And I think what they mean is they're trying to figure out what their lives would be like under -- they're trying to envision because Trump's already been president.

[12:25:00]

People know what a Trump presidency is like. They know how it feels in their life. And so, I think and what I've heard from some Harris people is, they need to bring this home to the voters. They need to make it seem like they understand how this all affects them and affects their lives directly.

And they're looking, as Isaac reported, for different ways to fill in that picture, whether it's rallies, whether it's ads, whether it's, you know, impromptu encounters and small venues. I think she should do more media, not as a matter of campaign strategy, because I'm a member of the media. And I feel like they should communicate with voters by taking tough questions. But all of those opportunities to make her seem real and authentic to people will help fill in that picture is what they think.

PRZYBYLA: As her great dilemma is, they say one thing. Voters say we want more policy, but they actually respond to something completely different, which is the more inspirational lines, for instance, from the debate, which are then put out on social media.

And especially, given that we in our lifetime, have never seen a campaign like this, where the major candidate parachutes in weeks before the election, and a huge portion of the electorate doesn't actually know her, doesn't know her policies.

And so, she's in this breakneck pace to just introduce herself as a person, explain maybe her past possessions and her changes, as well as roll out all of this policy. Well, Democrats have also learned from the past. And the one candidate who did all policy and got no credit for it was Hillary Clinton. And so, a lot of those people are battle worn veterans of that campaign, and they know what actually works.

BASH: Couldn't agree more, well said. Thank you all. Great reporting. Check it out as I said on cnn.com. Don't go anywhere, because we want to really spotlight North Carolina. Democrats think that they could turn it a shade of Tar Heel blue. I'm going to talk to the man trying to stop them, and that is the state's Republican Party chair.

Plus, Donald Trump is at some point going to address reporters in Los Angeles. Will he take questions? We'll find out after a quick break.

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