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Inside Politics

Biden Leaves Door Open To Israel Striking Iran's Oil Reserves; Harris Campaigns With Liz Cheney In Battleground Wisconsin; Melania Trump Confirms Support For Abortion Rights In New Video; Special Counsel Details Evidence Against Trump; Trump Complains About DOJ Interfering So Close To 2024 Election. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 03, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:14]

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: The calm before the counterstrike. President Biden is refusing to rule out an Israeli airstrike on Iranian oil reserves in retaliation for the latter's historic missile attack on America's ally earlier this week. Those discussions are ongoing according to the commander in chief who told reporters today, nothing's going to happen today.

And this less than 24 hours after Biden declared that he does not support an Israeli air attack -- Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites.

Joining me now is Republican Congressman Brian Mast of Florida. He's a member of the house foreign affairs committee, a decorated army combat veteran, and a purple heart recipient. Congressman, thank you for taking the time and joining me. I really appreciate it.

So I want to get your response to the president's position there about his concerns, about an air attack on, an Israeli attack on nuclear facilities in Iran. Would you support an Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear facilities?

REP. BRIAN MAST (R), FLORIDA: Yes, let me start by answering in the affirmative. Yes, I would support that. And let's use a term that a lot of people are throwing around that they're worried about. They're worried about the idea of escalation. But I would argue, you know, when you use that term escalation, there's good and bad escalation.

And when we're talking about this, this is a good escalation when you're ally is escalating the attack and preventing your enemy from escalating because they're destroying all of their forces or they're destroying what we were very worried about Iranian nuclear facilities. If they're destroying those things, that is a good escalation for us.

RAJU: But wouldn't -- I mean, wouldn't that be potentially catastrophic, the implications of attacking nuclear sites, maybe even leading to nuclear war?

MAST: Well, you're looking at a situation of when you're -- depends on what type of nuclear site you're talking about. Are you talking about a Fordow mountain facility where you're creating an impassable situation for workers or scientists or those that are going to be doing something in their nefarious from getting in or out?

Is that the situation that you're creating? Are you talking about hitting a silo somewhere? Are you talking about hitting an air base where there might be something hanging in the belly of an aircraft? There can be a number of different types of targets that you might be speaking of.

But again, I would go back to the point that if our enemy is degrading and destroying their capabilities, the -- if our ally is degrading and destroying the capabilities of our enemy, then that is a good escalation. It's an escalation I support.

RAJU: All right. I want to turn to the news from just over the past day about a newly unsealed filing from the Special Counsel Jack Smith. He outlined in his case against Donald Trump that he is, quote, that the former president was increasingly desperate. That was the words they used on his efforts to subvert the 2020 presidential election.

So here's how the then president allegedly responded when he learned that Mike Pence was in peril on January 6th. It says, quote, "An unnamed White House aide, according to the filing, ran to Trump when he received a phone call that Pence had been taken to a secure location in hopes that Trump would take action to ensure Pence's safety."

So, Trump, according to the prosecutors, looked at the aide and simply replied, "So what?" What is your response to the President's apparent reaction to his then vice president, his life being in danger?

MAST: I don't think that should be categorized as anything other than hyperbole right there. He had --

RAJU: I think it's based on the evidence that the prosecutors found though.

MAST: He has secret service protection. Now, at that time, we thought that secret service protection was the gold standard of protection, and they would be keeping him safe. He was under protection, OK. He's being brought to a secure facility, OK. That's something that's being done.

It doesn't really require a great deal of thought. And he wasn't really in peril. That's the truth of the situation. I think --

RAJU: They were saying hang Mike Pence in the Capitol. You don't think his life was in peril?

MAST: His life wasn't really in peril. He was protected by Secret Service. That is a fact. And the people that came to the Capitol, as we know, it doesn't like to get reported. President told them to go there peacefully, not anything otherwise than that.

But the unsealing of these documents by Jack Smith, that's, clearly, it's political. That's the point I would make, number one. This has political intentions. They want to affect November 5th, but you look at this and you layer it upon what's happened already this week.

You had bureaucrats in this administration in the VA trying to unseal and illegally access the information of the vice presidential candidates like J.D. Vance and Tim Walz. We had this in the past when the department of defense did this in the last election, when they did it with representatives, Anna Paulina Luna and Zach Nunn and others, when the DOD unsealed their files.

We've had the CIA go out there and say, hey, listen, these Hunter Biden things with the laptop, that's all false information, Russian disinformation. You constantly have bureaucrats in this administration that are trying to make politics out of their job. That's not OK.

RAJU: And I'll just point out that this was a court fight in court battle and the judge has been involved in when the filings would actually take place, which is one reason why this came out and Trump, of course, had to delay this whole proceeding until just now was one of the big reasons.

[12:35:07]

But I do want to ask you about some news, of course, on the campaign trail today. Kamala Harris is campaigning with Liz Cheney. I want to take you back to January 20th, 2017, Donald Trump's inauguration, which you attended with the then congressman Cheney.

She posted this picture the following day with the caption, "It was an honor to celebrate President Trump's inauguration yesterday with Brian Mast." But now, of course, things are much different in the wake of January 6. She claims that Trump supporting Republicans, quote, "are defending the indefensible" and warns, quote, "there will be a time -- there will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain."

What do you say to her?

MAST: Yes, she was my seatmate. I believe she was directly to my left, maybe it was to my right sitting at that inauguration. But you have two different directions that you're going here and she doesn't support the direction of America first. She doesn't support the direction of drain the swamp.

She supports the direction of let's keep everything the same in Washington, D.C. Continue the spending habits, support all the same entities that have been supported since her father was out there supporting those entities. It's a total different direction. I think that's why she's standing alongside Kamala Harris. And I think it degrades all credibility.

I don't think she pulls one vote from the GOP or President Trump in any way whatsoever. And again, I just say standing next to Harris shows really the lengths to which she will go to support extreme policies.

RAJU: All right. OK. Congressman Brian Mast from Florida, thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it.

MAST: I appreciate you asking. Take care.

RAJU: All right.

A memoir makes waves on one of the most contentious issues of the election. Melania Trump tells the world what she really thinks about abortion, and it strays pretty far from what her husband's party believes. That's next.

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[12:41:25]

RAJU: Melania Trump is breaking with her husband on a key issue for voters in this election, abortion. Of course we know former President Trump takes credit for appointing the justices who helped overturn Roe v. Wade, sending the issue back to the states.

The former first lady though makes clear where she stands in a new video as she promotes her upcoming memoir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY: Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that I safeguard. Without a doubt, there is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth, individual freedom. What does my body, my choice, really mean?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: CNN's Kristen Holmes joins me from the battleground state of Michigan. Kristen, Trump himself, Donald Trump, has been all over the map on this issue. Do we expect him to respond to what his wife is saying there?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it's unclear, but obviously there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, this is an issue that Donald Trump himself has had a very hard time navigating. We've been in this campaign for nearly two years, and he still has problems talking about abortion.

To be clear, he is the architect of the overturning of Roe v. Wade. But at the same time, he knows that this is politically harmful to him, particularly among moderates among women. So he often avoids it in his campaign speeches. He refused to answer questions until this week as to whether or not he would veto a national abortion ban if he was reelected.

He finally said this year that or this week that he would do that, but at the same time it's still Donald Trump and he has sought time after time to get credit while trying to avoid the topic for the overturning of Roe v. Wade. This was him at the recent debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: For 52 years, they've been trying to get Roe v. Wade. into the states and through the genius and heart and strength of six Supreme Court justices, we were able to do that. Now, I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. I believe strongly in it. Ronald Reagan did also, 85 percent of Republicans do exceptions. Very important, but we were able to get it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So these Melania comments seem to undercut something that Donald Trump at times has said was one of his signature achievements while in office. And if you ask some of his advisers, they say she's just not a traditional former first lady, that she just does her own thing.

But Manu, just to show you the context here, I mean, this is coming at a time where she's been almost non-existent on the campaign trail. We will see if he addresses it today on the stage in Michigan. He's slated to be talking about the economy, but as we know, it is Donald Trump, so he could talk about anything. Manu?

RAJU: Yes, he certainly can. It would be interesting to see if he does say something about that. Thanks for that, Kristen.

And our excellent panel is back. What do we make of this? I mean, the fact that we have not seen Melania Trump, really, this campaign. Suddenly she's back, and now dropping this bomb of sorts.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, it appears to be potentially a play to help her husband with some moderate voters, especially with women, who suburban women, who he hasn't necessarily done well with.

RAJU: Coordinated, perhaps.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Right, I mean, I would think it would be coordinated, despite the fact that they may say it's not. And, you know, although, again I was just in the swing states of Arizona and Nevada, they both have abortion ballots, abortion ballot measures this year. And there are differences between the two in terms of how much they're going to galvanize voters.

But in Arizona specifically, it looks like it could very well motivate a decent amount of voters and potentially voter that could translate into more support for Harris. I think a lot of those voters though are already a bit baked in.

[12:45:05]

I don't know if they're going to necessarily believe Melania's pitch to them, especially when it conflicts with what Donald Trump has said and J.D. Vance's past support of a national admission ban.

RAJU: What if we've not seen her much on this, the campaign trail?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That might be a bigger question than we could fill an entire hour with because --

RAJU: You know, the Republican convention, you know, typically the first lady, future first lady speaks, right? But she was there, not much. We didn't see much of her.

TALEV: No, she's not been a crucial part of the cell to the Trump base this time around. And I think what we're seeing here -- I'm going to borrow a line from Jesse J and say, it's all about the money, money, money. There is a book coming out. It's her book. It's coming out next week.

This will obviously juice publicity and sales and interest in the book and coverage of the book. That's a piece of the timing of this. I don't -- certainly, I don't think this is going to hurt former President Trump because nobody thinks that his wife or his running mate or anyone except for him is making decisions.

And he's already made the decisions. He nominated the Supreme Court nominees. He's said he supports this being an issue for states to decide. And while he once was a pro-choice public figure, that was many years ago, and he has been on the other side of that coin.

RAJU: And you mentioned the book. CNN has a new story out just this past hour about how Melania Trump apparently asked for $250,000 for CNN interview on her book, according to the report. Two months ago, CNN reached out to Trump -- Melania Trump's book publisher to request an interview after several exchanges.

They came back with this unusual demand asking for $250,000 as part of the CNN, did not sign that agreement just for the record there. Days later -- after a separate CNN journalist asked about this, the publisher said it had sent the payment demand by mistake.

Of course, there's been some reporting too that she appeared apparently at two fundraisers of the log cabin Republicans earlier this year. See, we -- our colleagues also reported that that -- and she was paid $237,000 for a speaking engagement. It's unclear exactly how she got that money as well.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, to me, it sounds like a potential --

RAJU: Who paid for that, I should say.

ZELENY: Right. It sounds like a potential speaking fee request. I mean, this is just one of -- it's impossible to imagine another first lady, former first lady from Nancy Reagan to Barbara Bush to Rosalynn Carter to Laura Bush. Any of them, you know, not sort of acting like this. I mean, the speaking fees are unheard of in this respect, setting that aside.

I think the abortion comment is strategic to Laura's point there. It sounds very much in the lines of -- I'm not saying she doesn't believe it. But to have this come out now is certainly very interesting. It could muddy the waters, perhaps, a little bit, in terms of the gender gap. But one thing that's clear, on the right side of the former president's flank, I mean, even though some anti-abortion activists don't necessarily like some of his language, they liked his policies and his Supreme Court nominees, and that's what matters.

RAJU: Yes. All right, we shall see. Muddying the waters is what Trump has been trying to do on abortion --

ZELENY: For sure.

RAJU: -- really since Roe was overturned.

ZELENY: Right.

RAJU: It's very well convened (ph).

ZELENY: All right, next, top takeaways from the 165 pages of the new special counsel's evidence against Donald Trump.

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[12:52:42]

RAJU: New special counsel evidence providing the American public a full glimpse of Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election weeks before voters go to the polls in the 2024 election.

Elliot Williams, legal expert, joins me now to add his expertise. Elliot, thanks so much for joining me at this moment. So just to remind viewers about everything that was found here, at least, that was dropped by the special counsel over the past day. Several key points, outlining this frayed relationship between Trump and Pence, a campaign operative apparently told Trump, make them riot.

Trump told his family, it doesn't matter if you won or lost the election, you still have to fight like hell, according to this filing. He also said, so what, when he was told that Mike Pence was being moved to a secure location on January 6th. What is your big takeaway from this and what happens next?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Now the big takeaway is a lot of this was in the public record, but there's more details behind it now between statements and speeches that have been given the January 6th committee, which aired a lot of this, but there's more detail.

However, this was never before the court, and this is -- nothing exists in a courtroom until it's been filed on a piece of paper. Judge Chutkan, who's the judge overseeing the case, can't rely on any of this information unless it's been filed like it has here. So, what's happening right now is the Justice Department is building a record and a case should they ever end up taking this to trial.

RAJU: Yes. So I want to ask you about what Republicans have been saying.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

RAJU: Donald Trump had posted on Truth Social. He called it election interference. You heard I just spoke to Congressman Brian Mast saying something similar, saying that he shouldn't have dropped this at this late time. It's all an effort to try to interfere with the November elections.

Is -- what is the reality? What is the truth here?

WILLIAMS: That is inaccurate on many levels. Well, number one, this idea of the Justice Department not taking actions in the run up to an election in the 60 days before an election. That's what I think a lot of what they're getting at. That's for the filing of cases in the bringing of charges.

These charges were brought years ago. The judge simply unsealed a document that had already been filed in the case. Judge --

RAJU: Why did he do it now?

WILLIAMS: He didn't do anything. He filed it in response to a specific order from the judge. This wasn't -- I think what the former president and the congressmen are capitalizing on is confusion as to the court versus the prosecutor. The prosecutor was responding to an order from the judge to file this information, and that's how litigation works.

[12:55:04]

Cases stretch out over years and years and years. Yes, there is an election coming up in 30, I believe, four days. But the court system goes on, Manu.

RAJU: What do you -- what is the timeline here, because obviously this not going to go to trial before --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

RAJU: -- November. What if Trump loses? The impact that this would have. If he wins, we expect Trump to pardon himself --

WILLIAMS: Right.

RAJU: -- eventually here.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

RAJU: If he loses, how does this play out?

WILLIAMS: Pardon himself or simply just dismiss the case, direct the Justice Department to turn it down.

RAJU: Which he can do?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Now, in the next couple of weeks, the Trump team will file a response to this with their take on what constitutes an official versus an unofficial act of the presidency. I -- we can assume that they're going to take a different position than the Justice Department did right here.

Then the judge prepares things for trial. That could be months, but it could still go to trial at some point, just simply not before election.

RAJU: And quickly, can we see more new evidence before the election?

WILLIAMS: Possibly because there have been matters still under seal from the grand jury and so on, Manu.

RAJU: Absolutely. We shall see.

All right, Elliot Williams, thank you for --

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Manu.

RAJU: -- joining me, and thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.

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