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Republicans Work Aggressively To Raise Unfounded Concerns About Ineligible Voters, Voting Machines, How Votes Are Counted; Bruce Springsteen Endorses Harris For President; Special Counsel Alleges That Trump's Response When He Learned Pence Was In Danger On 1/6 Was, "So What?". Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 04, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: -- allies could use if the results are close and come down to just one or two states again. Dana Milbank is back with us along with CNN's Sara Murray who's got some new reporting. And Sara, talk about that and talk about how what you're learning is sort of, as one of our colleagues said, a red flashing light for all of us.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think, you know, there was this blockbuster filing looking back at what happened around the 2020 election, and there are a lot of components of it that feel really familiar to the things that are happening now.

And so, you know, I spoke to the Brennan Center and the head of their voting rights project, Sean Morales-Doyle, and he described it as the election denier's playbook, the plan to subvert the outcome of the election. It's more coordinated, it's more planned out, it's much more well-funded and sophisticated than it was in 2020.

So essentially, they've had four years to look at what worked and didn't work last time around. And a lot of the things that are happening now are things that we saw happen around 2020. We saw these false claims that there are non-citizens voting en masse that is happening again from Republicans.

We are now seeing just an avalanche of legal challenges ahead of the election. We saw a lot of this afterwards, but the challenges really take aim at voter rolls, the notion that states aren't cleaning their voter rolls, that there are dead people, that there are people who have moved. We saw this a lot in post-election challenges in 2020.

Election boards that are delaying or disrupting certification, that is the kind of thing that happened in one place around 2020 and drew a ton of headlines. And since 2020, it's happening in counties and battleground states all over the country.

BASH: Yes.

MURRAY: And the other thing, and the thing election officials really worry about is this misinformation around the election and around voting because people get whipped up, sitting at home, seeing stuff on social media, seeing stuff on, perhaps, like, the right-wing MAGA sphere.

And they become convinced that something is happening, some fraud is happening, some vote stealing is happening, and they want to take it upon themselves to confront an official or show up at a vote counting center. And that's what election officials really worry about turning dangerous.

BASH: Yes, and that's we've heard even from federal officials, from the Attorney General, and FBI director and so forth. And then the question which you raise in your book, "Fools on the Hill: The Hooligans, Saboteurs, Conspiracy Theorists, and Dunces Who Burned Down the House."

"At a time when Trump was down and out, House Republicans as a group did more than any other to restore him as the unquestioned leader of the party. They also, to a far greater extent than Republicans in the Senate or in governorship, mimicked, amplified, and tried to validate his paranoid claims about a deep state conspiracy within the federal government, his ludicrous claims that the election had been stolen, his rewriting of January 6th, and his claim that the government had been weaponized against him and his supporters by Democrats."

DANA MILBANK, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes. So there are -- Sara talks about flashing lights, there are so many right now. I feel like I'm in Times Square. But the biggest difference, I think, and the most worrisome now is the fact that, you know, after the 2020 election, the challenge was sort of on the fly.

They were sort of making it up as they went along, but there's a lot more infrastructure for that right now. And you look at Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, he is out there saying, will you accept the election results? You know, correct answer? Yes, I'll accept the election results.

He's saying, if they're fair, which presumably means if Trump wins. Now, he owes his job to Donald Trump. He's out one mean tweet. He's out of a job. If they win the House, he'll be up -- they'll have to decide on January 3rd. So what does he do when Trump says, you know, I need you to overthrow the election, I need you to use the 12th Amendment, bring it into the House.

Well, it probably won't work, but he certainly built the predicate for that to happen. So that's the -- I think that's the major change, the infrastructure that's there now.

MURRAY: Yes, I do think the one thing, you know, voting rights groups, they really don't want everyone to panic. They still want people to know, you know, you should turn out and vote, and that there are a lot of steps that are, being taken to make sure elections are secure.

I think that's like the silver lining of this sort of four-year period is that we now have a lot of information about what happened in the wake of 2020. And so it's not just the infrastructure of election deniers that has grown and popped up, but it's also the infrastructure of these folks who are seeking to counter these efforts to counter these narratives. But, again, we know, you know, when it's election day, people go to the polls, we're going to see this misinformation and that stuff just whips around the ecosystem so quickly.

BASH: OK. Well, it's up to us to keep banging on what your reporting is. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dana, for coming on and sharing your wonderful book.

Don't go anywhere, though, because coming up, Bruce Springsteen put on his best flannel to tell everyone that Kamala Harris will have their backs.

The hacks from the podcast Hacks on Tap -- oh, there they are. You'll hear from them after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:39:24]

BASH: The boss formally endorsed the Democratic nominee for president. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER: We are shortly coming upon one of the most consequential elections in our nation's history. Perhaps not since the Civil War has this great country felt as politically, spiritually, and emotionally divided as it does then at this moment. It doesn't have to be this way.

Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are committed to a vision of this country that respects and includes everyone, regardless of class, religion, race, your political point of view, or sexual identity. And they want to grow our economy in a way that benefits all, not just a few like me on top. That's the vision of America I've been consistently writing about for 55 years.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[12:40:15]

BASH: The Hacks on Tap are here to share their invaluable insight based on lots and lots of experience. David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Obama. Mike Murphy, longtime Republican strategist who has worked with John McCain, Mitt Romney and many, many more.

Axe, I'm going to start with you. You tweeted about Springsteen. How much of an impact realistically --

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BASH: --do you think this will have on specifically the kind of voters that Kamala Harris desperately needs right now?

AXELROD: Yes, I don't know. I'm not like a huge believer in endorsements as a major force but he has a large following and, you know, he is sort of a guy who sung about Americana for half a century and talked about working people in that music and spoken to the experience of people, the real experience of people.

So I think it has some impact and, you know, he's very passionate and very eloquent on democracy and on issues involving working people. I think it's obviously a plus. It's not going to tip the election, but it may get some people out to vote who wouldn't otherwise vote, and it may give people who are on the bubble, who are followers of his, some incentive.

BASH: I mean, as a Jersey girl, I loved the -- not just the plaid (ph) --

AXELROD: Yes.

BASH: -- but of course, he's sitting in a Jersey diner, the whole thing was like, you know, chef's kiss when it comes to Jersey. But I want you to look, Mike Murphy, at the latest NPR/PBS/Marist poll on this question of white men.

Donald Trump has a 41-point lead among white men, specifically without a college degree. And then just look at one of the many developments that have happened this week. And that is -- this is a part of a press release from the Trump-Vance campaign, noting that the firefighters' union, one of the first to endorse Joe Biden, did not endorse this cycle. Kamala clearly has a big problem with rank and file workers across the country.

Your thoughts, Mike Murphy.

MIKE MURPHY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I don't know. You've got to be careful about using labor endorsements. You know, campaigns do that, whatever. You could get the doorman endorsement and then boom, all working people are for us.

I think it has been true with Trump's data from day one that we've had this evolution where college educated white voters are leaving the Republican Party. We used to dominate with them. Because Trump has scared them off, but people who make their livings with their hands, white, blue collar voters have been moving to Trump on the populism.

And I think it's more about Trump's message and some of the cultural stuff he inflames, but it is a problem for Harris. The good news is on the other side of that gender gap, she's killing. She's doing very, very well with women. So if she can cut into those white working class folks with an economic message and turn the tables on Trump a little bit, that's a path forward for her. So I think she's not going to win that group, but you never want to lose that big.

BASH: And Mike, just staying with you, I don't want to lose sight of what -- another thing that happened this week, which is that Jack Smith filing upon receiving a phone call, alerting him that Pence had been taken to a secure location and unnamed White House aid rushed to the dining room to inform Trump and hopes that the defendant would take action to ensure Pence's safety, instead, after the aide delivered the news, the defendant looked at him and said, only, "So, what?|

It's that, it's that January 6th moment in the vice presidential debate. Does this have legs when it comes to the voters so?

MURPHY: Well, I think it throws another big log on the bonfire that we all know and have known for a long time that Donald Trump is a selfish jerk. Does it move voters though? It's a goldmine for reporters, goldmine for historians, goldmine for psychologists trying to figure out what the hell's wrong with Donald Trump.

But, you know, these swing voters know that he's a jerk, but they think he's a jerk who could run the economy well. So a little. I don't think it turns the election in a big way.

BASH: David?

AXELROD: You know, Dana, I agree with Mike. I've told people many, many times if you're talking -- I obviously think the portrait that of him is bad. The facts are horrifying, but if you're -- if it's likely that if you're sitting around the kitchen -- around the dining room table, talking about January 6 and democracy you're not worried about the cost of the groceries on your table.

And so we have a real divide around this. And I agree with Mike, there are people who just say, yes, I know all that. I don't like it. I don't like him. But I think he might be better for me. And that's, you know, that is what he is riding on here.

[12:45:05]

The question is whether I think the debate pointed up the comedy with a T of the debate pointed up how people seem hungry for the reaction to the debate was boy, they, were nice to each other. It points up how much people are sick of Trump's --

MURPHY: Yes.

AXELROD: -- politics. This kind of zero some, you know, rage filled, nasty name calling politics that makes getting stuff done together that much harder. And I do think that's an opening for Kamala Harris.

BASH: David, I have to ask you about your old boss on the campaign trail.

AXELROD: Yes.

BASH: Yes, I know you say you're dubious of celebrity endorsements. He's, you know, it's celebrity and politician and former president and everything, right. It is different.

AXELROD: Yes. No, no. He's all of that. But, you know, he's also perhaps the best liked politician or former politician out there and he has constituencies. And one of those constituencies is younger black men who -- there's been a focus --

BASH: Still? AXELROD: -- of his work, and that's also a big weak spot for Kamala Harris. If there's one place among African American voters where she needs help, it's there. Now, he'll help inspire voters, generally younger voters and so on. He'll make the case as he always does very well, but to the degree that he can persuade some of these voters who were on the sidelines or leaning Trump, and he's getting, you know, 20 percent of the black vote right now, I think that would be really helpful for Kamala Harris in what's going to be a marginal election.

So his presence on the campaign trail is going to be important generally. He's good at this, but I think there are specific constituencies he can help with perhaps more than others.

MURPHY: These endorsements are all feathers against bowling balls though, because there's such a -- so many big forces going on. He's a big feather, but it's going to be whether or not Kamala can move the numbers on economy and she represents a change and she has been closing the gap.

Trump's way ahead on running the economy over the last year compared to the Democrats with Biden. She's closed it, which is progress for her, but there's more to do.

BASH: All right. Mike Murphy, David Axelrod, Hacks on Tap, that is your podcast. I don't consider either of you have.

AXELROD: Yes.

BASH: Even though that's what you call yourselves. Thank you so much.

AXELROD: Well, we've earned as a badge of honor.

BASH: I know you do.

AXELROD: OK.

BASH: I know you do.

AXELROD: Right. You think the campaign's right (ph). You ought to hear us tearing into each other. We'll take care of that and then we'll get the campaign back to Ted Lasso versus Voldemort and she'll win.

BASH: All right, guys, thank you so much. Have a great weekend.

AXELROD: Thank you.

BASH: Up next, a close up look at our nation's first ladies and what it means that America could soon have its first, first gentleman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:21]

BASH: ?Whoever wins the White House won't just bring a new set of policies, he or she will bring their family. If Kamala Harris wins, Doug Emhoff would be the first, first gentleman. If it's Donald Trump, the former first lady, Melania Trump, would take the job she already had for four years.

This week on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper, CNN's Kaitlan Collins looks at the history of first ladies, including Melania's four controversial and sometimes chaotic years in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She realized what she wore could draw attention. She used that very strategically. Sometimes, to her detriment, we can think about the Africa trip was out of a magazine.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, THE SOURCE: When she went to her first solo trip to Africa and she was criticized for wearing the hat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. I had written a story about how she had worn a pith helmet on a safari in Kenya, and it is a symbol of British colonial rule. It represents some really dark ideas, and she didn't like that line of coverage, and she met us in front of the Great Sphinx.

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY: I wish people would focus on what I do, not what I wear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But then she walked away from us and started posing against the backdrop of the pyramids, and it was literally a fashion show photo shoot.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: My panel is back here. I mean, you saw my good friend Kate Bennett, who used to work with us, covered Melania Trump there, talking about, you know, some of what she did with her clothes. And the fact is that she used to send messages. Sometimes they were very clear, like on the back of her jacket and other times she would send messages apparently to her husband and others with what she wore because she wasn't somebody who liked to make speeches enough --

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER & EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Right.

BASH: -- but she is about to come out with a book that's going to make a big splash.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And it's already sort of, you know, create a bit of a news cycle this week. So close to the election as well. In that book, according to an expert, she does say that there should be no compromise when it comes to a woman's choice to choose when it comes to abortions as well, which obviously is at odds with her husband, who put the justices on the Supreme Court that overturned Dobbs as well.

So, she's already, you know, with this book, creating a bit of a new cycle here, my colleagues have reported that that expert -- that excerpt is that the campaign did know about that. The Trump campaign did know ahead of time, but the excerpt is strictly a means of selling books at this time rather than to soften the former president. MILBANK: And that's the point. I wonder if we sort of overthink this, like what messages --

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.

MILBANK: -- she's sending with her closer? What message on abortion? Yes, maybe just like everybody else in that family right now, she's just trying to cash out on things.

[12:55:10]

BASH: Real quick, Doug Emhoff.

WALTER: Yes.

BASH: What are your thoughts on, like, you know, I mean, it's --

WALTER: Does he become, like, a positive for Harris, you mean, or does he -- how does he fit in all this?

BASH: It's just the notion of the history.

WALTER: Like having a --

BASH: Yes.

WALTER: Right, and having a first (ph). You know, what's interesting about this campaign compared to say 2016 is how little we are actually talking about. The fact that this would be the first woman president and that he would be the first, first man in the way we talked about it incessantly in 2016.

BASH: Well, that's by design because she wants to focus on being the best person, she says over and over again, regardless of her race or her gender.

Thanks, guys. Happy Friday.

WALTER: Thank you.

BASH: Be sure to tune in to Kaitlan's report on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper. It airs Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. You'll also want to tune in Sunday morning at 9:00 a.m. Eastern and Pacific for State of the Union. My guests will include Democratic Senator Mark Kelly and RNC co-chair Lara Trump.

Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics today. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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