Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Today: Harris, Trump Crisscrossing State Of Michigan; Tomorrow: Harris To Campaign With Lizzo In MI &Usher In GA; Blue Wall Blitz: Harris Spends Week In PA, MI, WI; New CNN Poll Of Polls: Race Virtually Tied With 18 Days To Go; Trump On Campaigning With Haley: "I'll Do What I Have To Do"; Bulwark: Trump Campaign In Talks With Haley For Joint Event; Trump: "Without Abortion, The Women Love Me". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 18, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, betting on the blue wall. Kamala Harris is camping out in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania this week, as it becomes increasingly clear that her best path to the White House leads straight through those crucial states.

Plus, the Trump campaign reportedly wants Nikki Haley to join him on the trail during the campaign's final days. So why this morning did the former president take a swipe at the woman who could help him overcome one of his biggest vulnerabilities. And too close for comfort. That's how the architect of Obama's presidential campaigns now a top Harris adviser, sums up this race. David Plouffe will be my exclusive guest this hour.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start in must win Michigan, where Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are both campaigning today. Both crisscrossing the state in the hopes of earning those 15 electoral votes that went to Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020.

This is new data, we are showing you into CNN, nearly 21 million -- excuse me, nearly one million Michiganders have already cast their votes. For Kamala Harris, today's three stops come on the heels of a very busy week. Check out where the vice president has been since Monday.

You see a theme here. The Harris campaign knows fortifying the blue wall is its best path to victory, but polls show it is going to be tough. We can't say this enough. With just over two weeks to go, this election is a jump ball.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is in the very important Oakland County in Michigan. Priscilla?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana. Certainly, these stops today by the vice president give us a glimpse as to what she thinks and her campaign thinks, is her path to victory in Michigan. As you outlined there, she'll be visiting a county that voted for Trump in 2016 then Biden in 2020. And two other counties where Biden was able to expand his margins.

One area she visiting especially is Lansing. That is where she is going to build on her argument, especially appealing to union workers and trying to draw a stark contrast with her Republican rival Trump on manufacturing. So that is going to be a place where she attempts to make more inroads with that block of voters.

Now of course, another part of this too is focused on the early voting. This is the first time that in Michigan, people will be able to vote early in person in a presidential election. And when I've spoken to campaign officials, what they've told me is that they really want to capitalize on that as they try to both lock in her coalition in this state, but also reach other voters, especially in the suburbs and those white college educated voters.

So, a lot is at play in this already complicated state. And the vice president tomorrow will also be having a get-out-the-vote event here in Michigan, where I am now told she's going to be joined by Lizzo. So certainly, the campaign trying to harness that star power. Later, she'll go to Georgia, where she's going to be joined by Usher where early voting has already begun. So clearly, they also see ways to make gains here with those early votes.

Now, next week, the vice president is also going to be on the trail with the Obamas, both former President Barack Obama, where they will be in Georgia, and then later in Michigan. So, returning here with first -- former First Lady Michelle Obama. This will be her first time on the campaign trail for the Harris, Walz camping.

So taken together, you can certainly see today how they are trying to fortify the blue wall, especially here in Michigan, but also looking forward bringing in those big names to get people to the polls early where they see an advantage. Dana?

BASH: OK. Priscilla, thank you so much for that reporting. Let's talk to some additional exceptional reporters here, Margaret Talev of Axios, CNN's Jeff Zeleny and CNN's MJ Lee. Happy Friday or --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: -- because we're so close. It's literally a day that ends, and why? Like, who cares? But we are getting so much closer. Jeff, you have been on the road most of the week, I believe. Talk specifically about this blue wall.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boy, I mean, it really is the easiest path, the strongest, most likely path for Vice President Harris to hit that 270-electoral votes. Of course, with the blue wall, you also need the blue dot in Nebraska, second electoral district to win the 270.

[12:05:00] But the blue wall is something that they -- that the vice president

spent her entire week on. She shuttled back and forth from Pennsylvania to Michigan, back to Pennsylvania, over to Wisconsin for three stops yesterday, back to Michigan today. That tells you all you need to know. The of course, all three states are ones that Joe Biden won in '20 and didn't in '16.

Being on the road this week, I'm struck by one thing. How much 2016 hangs over this campaign in every single way. Democrats are haunted by Donald Trump winning the three states in 2016. There are democratic governors in all three states. There are key Senate races in all three states. So, you just get the sense, talking to voters. A, there's an exhaustion with all the advertising going on for Senate and presidential.

But what Priscilla was talking about there, Oakland County just right above Detroit. That is a democratic county. The Biden campaign won that by about 14 points. But that is where the margin was made up because four years earlier, the Clinton campaign only won it by about eight points.

BASH: All about margin.

ZELENY: I'm also looking at where she is today, Kent County in Grand Rapids. That is a classic battleground. In a battleground, Trump won it in '16, Biden won it in 2020. That is the suburban vote. These college educated Republicans who -- the Harris campaign is trying to reach. As we hear at the end of the two weeks to go, one big target for them is really trying to go after some independents and some moderate Republicans who are just unsettled by Trump, but not yet sold on Harris.

BASH: And let's kind of look at her travels, because as we all know, we've all covered enough campaigns to know that where a candidate goes, tells you everything that you need to know about where they think that they can do the best. Pennsylvania 12 stops. Wisconsin eight stops. Talking about the hangover from 2016, we all remember. They all remember that Hillary Clinton did not go to Wisconsin, Michigan same number. And then you get down to the Sunbelt and out west.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And I think it's both where she is going and also just the speed and the cadence that the campaign is now taking on. I mean, it wasn't that many days ago that I think we were hearing some rumblings about whether the vice president was physically out on the campaign trail enough, because she had some days where she was in D.C., you know, needing to do her day job, some days where we wouldn't see her out in public very much because she was busy doing media prep.

But now, you know, on a day like today, as Priscilla was saying, multiple stops in Michigan, Detroit tomorrow. And then also just seeing the high caliber of surrogates that are really out in full force. We're talking about two former presidents.

We're talking about the very coveted Michelle Obama, who is finally going to be out campaigning for her within the next couple of days. I mean, this is how you know that we are in the final stretch. And exactly as you said, they know that this could all come down to the margins.

BASH: Former presidents, including you have new reporting about Bill Clinton going back out like he did. I think it was this week or last week into some of the smaller rural places (Ph) -- that's right.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: Yeah. As I say, to me, there are some clear lessons from 2016 that everybody tried to learn in the Democratic Party. We'll see, though, if they, you know, the 2024 version of those lessons learned. One is that battleground states vote differently than the overall American population. You can win the popular vote and lose the election.

We saw it in that race with Hillary Clinton. It's possible that could happen again. So, you have to think about not just what are the national polls say, but how are voters in specific states. Two, running as a woman is different than running as a man. It's hard to get to how people feel differently in polling, but we know that they do.

And you know the third part is that one of the real in hindsight, missed opportunities for Hillary Clinton's campaign was spending so much time, focusing on the anti-Trump message. And not enough time focusing on the economy as people perceive it, not as the numbers tell you, and focusing on making the affirmative case for herself.

And we see in poll after poll and focus group after focus group that Harris's weak spot in a race where so many voters are so worried about Trump's character and the chaos. And they like Harris's position on, you know, bodily autonomy, reproductive rights. But they say, I don't know her, and I had more money in my pocket, and Trump was the president. And if that is not part of her closing message with these voters in these states, it could be a real problem.

BASH: I'm glad you brought that up, because one of the -- of the shifts that we've seen. If you look back at this entire week in more and more, is Kamala Harris and the campaign trying to seize on the latest thing that Donald Trump has said or done his behavior, in some cases, bizarre behavior.

Let's look at some of the examples of her kind of getting right into that news cycle.

[12:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's talking about that he considers anyone who doesn't support him or who will not bend to his will, and enemy of our country.

Now we here know, January 6 was a tragic day. Law enforcement officers were killed that day. And what did Donald Trump say last night about January 6? He called it quote, a day of love. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: What are you hearing from your sources about this strategy?

ZELENY: Look, she is trying to bring some of her voters into the room of a Donald Trump rally, quite literally in Green Bay. She actually played one of the comments he made, saying, I'm the father of IVF. So, in case you weren't watching, that's kind of unusual in terms of a closing message. I can't recall a candidate actually playing the videotape, rolling the tape, if you will.

But they are really extending the persuasion part of their campaign right until the very end, trying to sort of nudge some of these people who are not yet sold on her, but trying to get them sold on her, you know, by just rejecting him.

But Margaret, you mentioned the economy. That is something that is still hanging over there. And I interviewed Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, who was actually in Wisconsin earlier this week on her blue statement. I asked about the economy and said, you can't make people feel good about it. They have to feel good about it, and that is a challenge.

Yes, gas prices are not nearly as high. I filled my car up this week in Wisconsin, I think three times, all under $3 a gallon. That is something that is totally different from earlier this year. I think it was 280, 285, 290, inflation is down. That does not necessarily mean that people are feeling that great about the economy.

BASH: And as we button up this conversation about the blue states, it's good to give a little bit of history. We like history -- so somewhat recent history. If you look at the way that blue states -- excuse me, the blue wall in particular, how these three states have gone.

They've gone -- first of all, completely together as a block, except for 1988 that was the last time that they split in Wisconsin. One for Dukakis, the other two went for Bush. And of course, it's called the blue wall for a reason, because they have -- all gone for the Democrats, except for 2016 for Trump.

LEE: Yeah. Just tells you, I mean the blue and the red contrast there in that graphic, just tells you why Democrats are so, so, so focused on those three states. Just going back really quickly to the clip that you played of Kamala Harris, talking about Donald Trump and some of his recent comments.

I mean, even just watching her facial expression, you can tell that she's trying to signal. Can you believe this guy? Can you believe that these are some of the comments coming out of the other side? There is real frustration. And I know we've talked about this on the show, about the fact that the race seems very stuck right now.

And fueling that, I think, among some of her supporters, folks inside the campaign, donors, is this idea that things are so stuck, even though the other guy is making these kinds of comments. And I think that is just the reality of running against Donald Trump.

You have to contend with the fact that the opponent is capable of making these kinds of comments, and you have to sort of walk the fine line. As you were saying, Margaret, of sort of going after that and presenting that, but also making sure you have an affirmative message about your own candidacy.

BASH: And giving more oxygen to the things that he says that maybe some are like, OK, it's another thing that Donald Trump says. Her trying to say, this is not normal. Everybody standby, coming up. New developments on the Trump legal front. We are learning more today about the evidence in the election subversion case against the GOP nominee.

Our team is combing through nearly 2000 pages as we speak. Plus, he's one of the architects of President Obama's winning campaigns. Now he is on team Harris. David Plouffe is my exclusive guest later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Unsealed a trove of documents, nearly 2000 pages outlining Special Counsel Jack Smith's evidence against Donald Trump in the January 6 federal case are now public. These are documents, Trump's defense team fought to keep sealed through the election.

Our Evan Perez is with us now to walk us through what we are seeing. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana. There's a lot of documents that are completely sealed, that are completely redacted. We can't see exactly what they are. But these represents -- these documents represent the evidence that Jack Smith has and that he wants to use in a potential prosecution of the former president. Again, if that goes through, of course, the election will decide some of that.

But one of the -- among the things that we are seeing in these pages are, for instance, a memo from John Eastman, describing what he said was John -- was Vice President Pence's power to not certify the election. There is -- there are pictures of those fake elector certificates. Again, part of the evidence against Donald Trump is that they were trying to use these electoral certificates to not certify the election.

And also, there's an interview with an unidentified aide at the White House who said that on January 6, after he came back from his rally, the former president wanted to see essentially what the -- what was happening at the Capitol with the riots. And he went to retrieve a Diet Coke, so the president could sit there and watch some of the TV coverage.

[12:20:00]

Now, part of what you -- as you pointed out, the Trump team was asking is that this disinformation not come out until after the election. Judge Tanya Chutkan rebutted that, when she ordered the release. Here's what she said.

She said if the court withheld information that the public otherwise had a right to access solely because of the potential political consequences of releasing it, that withholding could itself constitute or appear to be, election interference. That is her answer to what Donald Trump has been arguing, which is that this is an election interference. Dana?

BASH: Evan, thank you. I know you and the rest of the team are going through very, very lengthy document. Appreciate that. The panel is back. Margaret, you spend a lot of time listening to and watching groups of undecided voters, focus groups on what they care about. Is this issue Donald Trump's legal issues. What happened on January 6 in particular? Is that a thing that people are considering as they weigh their vote?

TALEV: It's really interesting. I would say, yes and no. They don't talk about Jack Smith. They don't talk about the particulars of the case or wanting to have a right to know, everything that won't come out yet in a courtroom. Many of these undecided voters do talk about January 6.

They talk about the chaos. They're concerned with the president who -- a former president who still won't recognize that he lost with having a campaign to mislead supporters, perhaps even to try to block the ascension of the person who was duly elected.

But when you ask them, where does that rank on your kind of hierarchy of needs? It always comes back to the money in their pocket, to inflation, to a memory of time before covid, to a belief that maybe Trump can bring that back. They're not sure if Harris can bring it back. That ends up being more important to them, often than abortion rights or reproductive rights, and almost always than January 6.

And what it tells me is that these undecided voters or swing voters, they don't really believe that their freedoms or our democracy is on the line.

BASH: Yeah. It's so interesting because if Donald Trump wins, all of this goes away. For the most part, all of this, meaning the lawsuits on the federal level. Let's talk a little bit more about Donald Trump and what he is discussing. This morning, he went on Fox and Friends, a very friendly forum for him.

And one of the things that they were pressing him on is whether or not he is going to campaign with Nikki Haley, who as we reminded our viewers yesterday, continued to get votes from Republican primary voters even when she was out of the campaign to see if he would do that because, for lots of reasons, but first and foremost, he's got a problem with female voters still. Let's look at his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They keep talking about Nikki, Nikki. I like Nikki. Nikki, I don't think should have done what she did, and that's fine that she did it. But even in her own state in South Carolina where she was the governor. I beat her by a number that nobody ever -- at 50 points or something. And then they say, oh, when is Nikki coming back in? Nikki is in. Nikki is helping us already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I mean, that does not sound like a person wooing another person. By the way, right after that, he then turned to talk about how great Elon Musk is.

ZELENY: Look, I mean, this is something that, you know, he said he likes her. But he remembers what she said during the -- in the final weeks of the Republican primary campaign. It got very specific and negative in terms of his competency and other things. So yes, I would be -- if I was a betting man, I would say that we will see Nikki Haley and Donald Trump together at some point for the rest of the campaign. She has endorsed him. We will see about that.

The question is, what's the effect? I think most of those voters who voted for Nikki Haley, at least the ones I talked to for months over the campaign, they were Republicans. They wanted someone else. They wanted her. She didn't win the primary. So, most of them will vote for Donald Trump, but not all of them. And that's the question, what about that? Not all of them, some were independents.

So, you know, we certainly have examples in every state of, you know, Nikki Haley supporter or co-chair who is endorsing Harris. But the bottom line is, most of them were Republican voters, but that's who the Harris campaign is targeting right now. That's why this is so fascinating. It's that sliver of voters that they're trying to make one last go at.

BASH: But they had the big Republicans for Harris event in -- just in Pennsylvania this week. What about the issue of abortion? I want you to listen to what he said on that when he was questioned about it. And we'll talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I do very well with women, and I think it's all nonsense. I see the polls, and we do well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the Nikki Haley --

TRUMP: You have one issue. You have the issue of abortion. Without abortion, the women love me. Now, they like me anyway, because what I've done is so good. I've taken this issue out of the federal government and put it back to the states where they're voting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:00]

LEE: Without abortion, the women love me. I mean, that's obviously sort of a nonsensical answer. There's nothing that shows that his stance on abortion has, you know, in the big picture, helped him with women voters. And by the way, the answer that he gave there was in part in response to a question about whether some members of his family, women members of his family like Melania his wife, or Ivanka his daughter, might campaign more with him.

He could have also said something to the effect of, you know, I love my wife. I love my daughter. Of course, you know, these are important people that I hope to see more on the campaign trail. He didn't. And instead, it's sort of the -- sort of big picture defensive, I am good on this issue. And by the way, women love me.

BASH: All right, everybody. Don't go far because after the break, we're going to go inside the Kamala Harris strategy to eke out a win. 18 days from now. Her senior campaign adviser David Plouffe will be here after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)