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Judge Delays Trump Sentencing In NY Hush Money Case As His Lawyers Make New Bid To Have Convictions Thrown Out; Today: Biden, Harris Have Private Lunch At White House; AOC Asked Her Supporters Who Also Voter For Trump To Explain Why; Tomorrow: Senate GOP To Pick Leader To Replace McConnell; Sen. Rick Scott Emerges As MAGA Favorite For Majority Leader. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 12, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's something that also gets a lot of weight and precedence here, and the issue with the theory under the law that a defendant should know their fate once they are convicted.

So these are the two issues that the prosecution said they're grappling with. And it's because Trump's lawyers have asked again for the judge to dismiss this case and also to put all of this on hold because of the legal issues here, the unprecedented nature of trumping the President-elect and also facing this judgment.

So it's in the judge's court now, once he gets the prosecution's thoughts to decide what he is going to do. If he will move forward and rule on this question of immunity or if things will be shelved until potentially four years from now when Trump is out of office. Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: And Kara, what about the civil judgment against Donald Trump? Are those cases in jeopardy right now? What is the status there?

SCANNELL: Right. So those cases are not affected in the same way that a criminal case would be affected by the notion of Trump becoming the president. They've been decided they're up on appeal. And that's the New York civil fraud judgment of $354 million plus more than $100 million in interest.

That case has been argued. We're awaiting a decision from the appeals court on that. There's also the verdicts involving E. Jean Carroll and the sexual abuse and defamation case is a total of $88.3 million. Those are also up on appeal.

But once the appeals court rules on that, if they affirm that judgment, Donald Trump will be required to pay that money. Dana?

BASH: Kara, thank you so much for that. Appreciate it.

Coming up, AOC and Donald Trump, they are worlds apart on pretty much everything. So why did some voters choose both of them last Tuesday? Their answers may surprise you and help explain a lot. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:14]

BASH: You're looking at live pictures of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are having lunch today in the President's private dining room. It is, we believe, their first one- on-one meeting, certainly their extended lunch since Election Day. I wonder what they're talking about.

My panel is back now. You go there, what, not every day, but a lot of days.

TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: In many days. I'll be there tomorrow --

BASH: A lot of the days.

KEITH: -- for the action --

BASH: Yes.

KEITH: -- when Trump visits.

BASH: Have you been invited to one of these lunches?

KEITH: I have not.

BASH: So weird. No, but I just -- I'm curious, one of the things that hasn't been like a big part of the conversation is, at least in the weeks since the election, is what is her future?

KEITH: And I think that that remains a very open question. You know, I think a lot of the debates about what went wrong and what the Democratic Party needs to do are going to be settled not over the next few weeks, but over the next four years.

And whether she decides to run again, I don't have the answer to that. But it is certainly whoever runs and wins the Democratic nomination will decide the direction of the party.

AYESHA RASCOE, NPR HOST, "WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY" AND "UP FIRST": Yes, I think, I mean, I think clearly, you know, she made history just by being the nominee. But she was also put in an extremely difficult situation. And I -- you have to wonder while she's sitting there with Biden, who she really had a hard time distancing herself from, even as people begged her to distance herself what their relationship is. And because it was his decisions that had such a huge impact on her.

BASH: Yes.

RASCOE: And so what will -- maybe me if she speaks freely one day, what would she say? And I don't know.

BASH: So well said. It's so true. Let's look, well, may be more broadly and down ballot at some of the examples of Democrats who are on the ballot with her who won, even though she lost in swing states. This is just the United States Senate. Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin, Elissa Slotkin in Michigan, Ruben Gallego in Arizona, Jacky Rosen in Nevada.

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: There are two ways to look at this story. One, Donald Trump didn't really have coattails, and that there are people that went in and voted for Donald Trump at the presidential level and didn't vote for the Republican candidate.

Now, some of those Republican candidates, as any Republican sort of strategist around town will tell you, were a little bit troubling. But the other side is maybe more difficult conversation for Democrats to have is why was there such a gap there between Senate Democrats and the nominee of their party?

And we are just at the beginning of a big internal conversation. I actually think it happens faster than four years. I think it happened in two years because if Kamala Harris pulls a Richard Nixon, decides to run for governor of California, that's a two-year conversation.

And who could she meet there? She could meet Xavier Becerra, who is in HHS. So, I think the conversation will happen, you know, it's like Hemingway on going bankrupt, like first slowly then suddenly. I think this will be first suddenly and then slowly on this conversation, Dana.

BASH: Yes, let's hope it doesn't end for anybody we're talking to here, the way it ended for Hemingway. Do you want to add something, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I just want to note on the sentence, what you're saying there how different that is from what we've seen in recent history. I mean, Susan Collins is the lone example --

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- in the last couple cycles to be out of kilter with the way her state goes in the presidential. Now, this is back in a way that we haven't seen in over a decade in American politics. And that's really intriguing and will be part of how the parties sort themselves and figure their path forward from here.

BASH: AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez went on a fact finding mission. First, let's just explain that she was one of the Democrats who performed better than Kamala Harris. If you look at the results of her race New York, 14, she did about four percentage points better than Kamala Harris. Obviously, both of them won that district overwhelmingly.

So the fact-finding mission she went on was to go online on Instagram and ask people who voted for her and voted for Donald Trump, why they did it.

[12:40:08]

Here are some of the answers that she got. These are voters. "It's real simple. Trump and you care for the working class." "You are focused on the real issues people care about. Similar to Trump populism in some ways."

"Both of you push boundaries and force growth." "Wanted change, so I went with Trump and blue for the rest of the ballot to put some brakes."

CHALIAN: What I thought was so interesting about this was the way she posed the question to her users as well, which is like, I'm not asking to scold you. How could you vote for Trump and for me? I really want to know the answer.

BASH: She wants to know.

CHALIAN: And they gave her the answer. And this to me in all the post- election analysis that has gone on so far, I mean, I do think that this disruption against the elite institutionalists is a real current we see it not just in American politics, but we do see it here.

And I think that that is a through line that the Democratic Party still very much sounds like your traditional politician, and Donald Trump obviously doesn't. And I think disrupting that traditional politician aura is something that you're going to see play a role in what you're discussing --

NICHOLS: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- in this formation of how the Democrats move forward.

NICHOLS: I love the fact finding mission. She goes online. I mean, I remember in 2016, the New York times was talking about like having bureaus all throughout the Midwest --

BASH: Yes.

NICHOLS, -- and actually talking to people, but AOC, the bravery. I mean, she went online. I mean, the questions might be the right ones, but like, let's not -- she's not out there.

BASH: It was. I thought it actually was.

NICHOLS: She's not out there in the hinterlands and --

BASH: No, no, but people are giving her honest answers --

NICHOLS: Sure.

BASH: -- to the point where -- I'm sorry, let me say one of these -- I just -- I can't let this go. One user said, the responses you got make me want to barf and she replied with the crying laughing emoji. Sometimes you got to dig in and see it to understand and adapt even if it makes you want to barf. RASCOE: Well, no, I think she's talking to the people. But I do think that what she shows and what to me, that question shows is that Americans really aren't that ideological, right? Like, they really are attracted to people and to candidates.

And that if you get the right candidate as a Democrat or Republican, someone who can sell water to a well, you can win. And I think Trump is someone who can sell water to a well, I think AOC is the type who could sell water to a well.

And so I don't think it's really necessarily about policy. I think it's about personality for a lot of it.

BASH: Well, it's personality and it's something more. And I just want to --

RASCOE: Yes.

BASH: -- pick up on what you were saying. I was talking after the election to somebody whose name rhymes with Schram Schimanuel (ph).

NICHOLS: I mean, he talks to reporters.

BASH: And the argument that he was making, which is we saw in the races that he ran and helped run for other people, is us versus them. And to have an opponent in corporations or in, you know, the man or whatever it is, which is what links the AOCs of the world to the Donald Trumps of the world, and that's not about ideology. That's about understanding what we need and who we think we need to kind of bring down in order to help us rise economically and elsewhere.

KEITH: Well, and Democrats somehow became the party of norms. And I think a lot of that was a reaction to Trump, but their reaction to Trump took them away from maybe where they had traditionally been.

CHALIAN: I mean, do you remember all the stories we did in 2016 of the overlap of Sanders and Trump supporters?

BASH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh yes.

CHALIAN: This is not brand new --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- but it is -- the Democratic Party still has some lessons to learn from those findings.

BASH: Yes. It's that horseshoe that we all learned about in political science.

Coming up, jockeying for the top job in the Senate. We're just hours away from the GOP vote on Mitch McConnell's replacement as top contenders compete for a potential Trump endorsement. Stay with us.

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[12:48:22]

BASH: ?MAGA versus the establishment. Tomorrow, Senate Republicans will pick a leader to replace Mitch McConnell. Their choices, two of McConnell's closest allies, John Thune of South Dakota and John Cornyn of Texas. The wild card is Florida's Rick Scott. He's not exactly the most popular member of the GOP conference, but MAGA influencers are pushing hard for him.

So while Cornyn and Thune work behind the scenes, Scott has been on Fox at least four times in 48 hours. His pitch? He'll do what Trump wants.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

RICK SCOTT (R-FL), SENATE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: We have got to change the way the Senate is run, to get Trump's agenda done.

I'm very optimistic that I'm going to win because I'm representing Trump's agenda.

If we don't have the right leader in the Senate, then what's going to happen is all the things that Donald Trump wants to do is going to get bogged down.

I know what to do. I will get it done. I will make sure Trump's agenda is done, and I think that's why I'm going to win tomorrow.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Panel is back here. Hans?

NICHOLS: The wild card is Donald Trump, right? If Donald Trump weighs in, this entire race has a different -- entirely different tenor to it. Now there's not much time for it. But imagine if Trump does weigh in and says not Thune or not Cornyn, I know the vote is a secret ballot. But it would be exceedingly difficult to be leading a conference and to be leading the Senate trying to get the President's agenda through if he is publicly opposed to.

Now that hasn't happened. But I think every smart reporter in town has probably written a template on that for when Donald Trump weighs in on that Senate leadership race, because that's the one question I have.

KEITH: Now, you say that hasn't happened this time, but Mitch McConnell has been leading the Senate --

NICHOLS: Been, yes.

KEITH: -- with a President Trump who openly opposed him for a long time. Didn't -- had great discomfort with him, and yet he accomplished many things that --

[12:50:13]

NICHOLS: Especially on the judicial front.

KEITH: On the judicial front --

NICHOLS: Yes.

KEITH: -- that really have bolstered Trump's legacy already. So, it is possible, who knows?

NICHOLS: Yes, I don't --

KEITH: Who knows?

NICHOLS: Yes. I think that this, in 2016, 2017, it was an open question whose party it was. I don't think there's a doubt by anyone at this table that the party is Donald Trump and that he is going to exert his will through policy, personnel, and plans of things that we're not even thinking about.

CHALIAN: But Hans, that's exactly why I think that John Cornyn or John Thune will also be getting Donald Trump's agenda through the Senate, right?

NICHOLS: Yes.

CHALIAN: Like, I don't think -- I know they're seen as the more establishment picks, but I don't think they're going to be Mitch McConnell in this current environment of Donald Trump's, you know, sweeping decisive victory.

NICHOLS: They're not going to defy him. I agree with that.

CHALIAN: Yes.

NICHOLS: I just think it's hard for them, it'll be hard for them to actually be the leader of their party if Donald Trump is publicly opposed to them.

CHALIAN: Yes.

NICHOLS: I'm willing to be wrong.

BASH: Yes. And it's not just Donald Trump, it's what we hear from people who are supporters of Donald Trump, who are very openly sort of denigrating both Johns, Cornyn and Thune, because of the things that they have said speaking out against Donald Trump.

Let's just give one example on Steve Bannon's podcast. This is Benny Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BENNY JOHNSON, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: One senator told me this weekend that these senators, Thune and Cornyn, are pets, their pets of McConnell, call them a pet. Say they're on a leash and they'll come when called and McConnell walks him like a dog.

And so that is exactly what these senators are voting for. And it is a betrayal of their Republican constituencies.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

RASCOE: Well, look, I don't know who's going to win, but I do wonder if you're a senator, you're not up for re-election for maybe another six years, do you say there is a life after Trump? And I'll make this decision and maybe, you know, let the chips fall where they may and people may not, you know, even be thinking about this, you know, when I'm up for election in six years.

Like there will be, I think, I don't know. I hope there will be life after Trump, but I don't know.

BASH: I do think it's really interesting the way that Rick Scott is jockeying for this versus John Cornyn and John Thune. Now, John Thune, I was just told, did just write an op-ed for foxnews.com. But John Cornyn said point blank this morning to Lauren Fox, "I'm not going to do this in the press".

Meanwhile, Rick Scott has gone, for example, on Laura Loomer's Podcast. Let's watch that.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SCOTT: No one's been a bigger supporter in the Senate than me for Donald Trump and what he believes in. Right now, it's truly just the Washington establishment versus Republicans that want to elect Trump.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: I cannot see any world in which either John Thune man (ph) -- John Thune or John Cornyn would go on Laura Loomer's podcast for a million reasons, not the least of which she sent -- throws out conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic tropes, and she's going after John Thune.

She did this tweet, "Ask yourself, why should we trust John Thune to be leader when he invited his openly anti-Trump nephew to give a prayer in the Senate" -- he's going after -- she's going after his family -- "in 2022," This is the family that hates Donald Trump. He can't be trusted to carry out President Trump's agenda."

And she's talking about his nephew, Bob Thune, who gave some preached and talked about some proverbs, which you have to really pretty far into to think that it's about Donald Trump.

KEITH: Yes, I mean, this is sort of an inside game, outside game that Johns play the inside game in terms of building those relationships over time. Senator Scott is someone who has been playing the outside game going on Fox, making that pitch directly to Trump and Trump's allies.

And, in fact, he is someone who has often played the outside game in the Senate, which may not help him with some of those senators who have a secret ballot vote. BASH: Well, I'm so glad you said outside and inside game because having covered the Senate for a few years, yes, there is sort of the person who the leadership likes or the president likes, but then there's somebody who can actually do the job, which is hard and it takes talent.

And it takes an understanding of legislative process and to play three dimensional chess. And a lot of the senators who are going to be voting are new and might not know that. And some, though, might actually have a better understanding that it is a secret ballot.

CHALIAN: I mean, well, each individual member of that conference, if they want to accomplish something in their committee work or did -- they need an effective leader to accomplish that. So that is definitely part of a calculation.

[12:55:02]

But, boy, the last thing you said, do I wish this wasn't a secret ballot? Like, wouldn't that be amazing if we were able to actually see how this vote breaks down.

NICHOLS: And is J.D. Vance going to be in the room? There's been some reporting on that, but he's still a senator. So now there's some indication that he won't vote. But like J.D. Vance could --

BASH: Why not?

NICHOLS: I guess because he's moving on.

BASH: Because he's the next.

CHALIAN: Yes, he's not going to be in the next --

NICHOLS: Right. Yes, he's next, but can he be in the room? Right.

BASH: And he -- and well, and he will be the president of the Senate. So it's not like he's not going to have a job.

NICHOLS: Yes, he'll spend a lot of time there on the tie breaks if -- and on some of the nominations we're talking about -- if they ever get really tight, J.D. Vance will come and break ties.

BASH: Thank you so much. Appreciate it, one and all.

Thank you for joining Inside Politics today. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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