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Trump Weighs Nominating Fierce Loyalist Kash Patel To Lead FBI; Kash Patel To Trump Foes: "We're Going To Come After You"; Trump Testing Senate GOP's Loyalty With Picks For Top Jobs; Trump Taps Anti- Vaccine Activist RFK Jr. For Top Health Post; Public Health Experts Sound Alarm Over RFK Jr.'s Vaccine Views. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on INSIDE POLITICS, Trump's MAGA dream team. We have brand new reporting this hour how the president-elect may reshape the FBI in his image. With a hard right loyalist who openly talks about going after Trump's self-received enemies at the helm.

Plus, medical experts are outraged that Donald Trump made good on his promise to put RFK Jr. in charge of public health. We'll tell you what Kennedy at HHS could mean for you and your family. And Trump's immigration crackdown. We have new details on how team Trump is planning to carry out his promised mass deportations, including expanding detention facilities and issuing executive actions.

I'm Manu Raju in for Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at INSIDE POLITICS.

We start with breaking news. President-elect Trump is weighing a major change at the FBI, potentially nominating a loyalist who has threatened to go after Trump's enemies to lead it. Sources tell CNN, Trump may replace the current Director Christopher Wray with MAGA fireman Kash Patel.

CNN's Sara Murray and Kristen Holmes are part of the team that broke the story. So, Sara, I want to start with you. So, explain why this is alarming to so many people.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's alarming to people because they look at Kash Patel as really a Trump loyalist, someone who -- if Donald Trump does select him to run the FBI would be the kind of person who can carry out retribution against Trump's political enemies. Can purge career civil servants, can try to declassify sensitive information.

And who really has personally lobbied for the FBI position, the CIA director position, which he did not get, essentially like any of these premier positions within the Trump administration. And that his sort of main selling point is he really does believe in the deep state, in the way that Donald Trump does, the so-called deep state. And really believes that Donald Trump has been unfairly targeted for vengeance.

So, I just want you to take a listen to some of Patel's own comments and speaking with another right-wing Trump ally, Steve Bannon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Where are the guys looking to clean up their messes and their abuse of the law, and they turn around and throw this Reddick around our face and say, we're going to be the ones who conduct a revenge campaign. They have been dominating an unlawful revengeance campaign against Trump in America for supporters for a near decade.

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Kash would be an incredible CIA director, but I think Kash might actually maybe a better FBI director.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, Patel is obviously someone that Trump's right-wing allies are pushing. You heard Steve Bannon talking about him right there, but there are, of course, other names in the mix, perhaps on the opposite end of the spectrum of Kash Patel would be someone like Mike Rogers, the former Republican congressman from Michigan who is the head of the House Intelligence Committee. Who served previously in his career as an FBI special agent.

So, there are still a number of names in the mix. And Manu, as you, as Kristen Holmes know so well, until Donald Trump announces it, nothing is final. So maybe Kash Patel is going to be the next FBI director and Donald Trump's going to fire Christopher Wray. Maybe Kash Patel will end up with nothing in the next administration.

RAJU: Yeah. Much difference between Mike Rogers and Kash Patel. So much on the table here. Thanks for that, Sara. Now let's go over to Kristen. But this is really part of a larger theme here for the president-elect.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And I do want to quickly touch on one thing about Kash Patel that has been interesting to see play out behind the scenes. And I'm talking to these various Trump advisers this -- they're really split among them as to who would want to see Kash Patel in a position of leadership or not.

Just a quick reminder, one of the things that happened during the campaign was that Kash Patel essentially said during an interview that people of the press should be punished, possibly even put in jail, that they would be looking into that in the next administration. That was something that members of the campaign really freaked out over. They were really unhappy with the fact that he had gone forward and said that.

And that's what you get with someone like Kash Patel is somebody who is a firebrand, who is going to essentially say things that might make other people who are still supporters of Donald Trump and even in his inner circle feel uncomfortable. But obviously, as we know and as we reported, Donald Trump right now is not taking all of the people's discomfort into consideration, particularly if we look at the slate of people who's been named over the past 48 hours, starting with Tulsi Gabbard, Matt Gaetz, RFK Jr. We look at this list, and its clearly people who won Republicans have even said, some of them publicly, that they feel uncomfortable with that they're not sure could get confirmed.

But I am told that Donald Trump himself is pushing through these conversations about whether or not someone can get confirmed. Senior advisers to him essentially telling me that they're aware that this is a possibility, that these people might not get confirmed. But it all goes down to what Donald Trump himself has said.

[12:05:00]

He was going to do on the campaign trail and putting forward people who he believes can do that and have messaged that. A lot of the people that he's choosing for these top cabinet positions are people he believes can go on television and effectively communicate the messaging around whatever they are doing within whatever agency they are doing it in.

That goes to Matt Gaetz, who he has seen do it before. It also goes to Hegseth, Secretary of Defense. These are people he believes can communicate the message. But I'm also told that some of these lower staff positions, those are the people who are actually going to be running the day-to-day.

And Manu, just very quickly. One thing to keep in mind, we are not done yet. There are still a number of positions that have not been filled, and these are positions that are critical to Donald Trump's promises he made on the campaign, which once again, we are seeing he wants to fulfill. That includes treasury. He obviously has promised tariffs, fighting inflation.

The other one to keep an eye on his education. It's not necessarily one of the ones we consider a top job all the time. It's in the limelight, but Donald Trump has promised to essentially abolish the Department of Education. So, how he handles that and who he picks that's going to be a big thing to watch in the coming days.

RAJU: Yeah. He's only just beginning. Kristen Holmes, West Palm Beach, Florida, and Sara Murray, thank you so much for that as well. Let's bring in my excellent panel reporters here at the table, Kadia Goba of Semafor, CNN's Phil Mattingly, CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, and Dave Weigel, also of Semafor. Nice to see you all.

Just to remind, Kristen had mentioned Kash Patel some of his past comments, including on the Steve Bannon podcast. Talking about really implementing what Donald Trump has said all along the campaign trail, that he would go after his enemies. This is from December 2023.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATEL: We will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rigged presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminal, civilly, we'll figure that out. But yeah, we're putting you all on notice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: This would be all part of what Trump has been promising on the campaign trail, but it would set up a firestorm.

KADIA GOBA, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Oh, for sure. But these nominations are no longer surprising me at this point, especially when it comes to law enforcement. It seems like the prerequisite is, you know, you have to claim that Democrats have weaponized the government.

Just look at Matt Gaetz. He was in the forefront. At the forefront of this during congressional hearings in the past. He was on the weaponization committee or tied to it. And this just -- it is, like you said, a broader theme of -- if you have, you know, suggested that Democrats have weaponized the justice system. You are part of this cabinet.

RAJU: But the input -- go ahead.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I was just going to say, Donald Trump is a fan of his and his book. Remember, last year, he was waving it around, saying that it should serve as the road map as to how to overhaul the Justice Department and these various agencies. Patel has talked about that as well. And also saying that they should close down FBI headquarters and move agents across the country.

So, the Donald Trump, should he make this pick, knows exactly what he is picking with Kash Patel, because he himself has said that what he has written down is what should serve as the roadmap for the Justice Department and these various federal law enforcements.

RAJU: But there's serious implications. I mean, putting him in charge of the FBI, Christopher Wray, he's been doing the job, nominated by a Republican president, the incoming Republican president, putting Kash Patel. What are the implications of that?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, tough break for the guy that Trump nominated last time for the FBI, who has no intention of resigning, at least that we know of. And FBI directors obviously get 10-year terms. I think what's so striking about not just the potential for Kash Patel's elevation the FBI.

But also, what we've seen throughout the course of the week, is if you watched more than one of Trump's rallies, and you followed the thread of the issues he cared about and what he cared about within those specific issues. This week's cabinet picks actually make a ton of sense.

And I know that might sound insane to some people, but you think about what he cares about when it comes to diplomacy and state department. Marco Rubio fits that as a China hawk and somebody who'd kind of come around to Trump over the course of the last five or six years.

John Ratcliffe, people are like, oh, he's kind of normal-ish. He makes sense in terms of being at the CIA, where you have EPA, which Republicans mostly want to do away with. Lee Zeldin is a loyal deputy of his -- or a loyal accolade on some level that fits there as well.

When you talk about DNI, when you talk about FBI, when you talk about DOJ, watch his rallies. Like these are the people that can implement what he said very explicitly over and over again, and that people could have known about, or did know about when they voted for.

RAJU: Yeah. And this is although is -- I call our friend and colleague, Maggie Haberman, referred to as a shock and overwhelm strategy, almost putting all -- changing the barometer of what's really acceptable in terms of these nominees and putting all out there -- all at once. So, we almost overwhelmed the system, and force people to have a difficult time focusing on one of them because there's so many coming out at the same time.

[12:10:00]

DAVID WEIGEL, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Right. Doing that with very different stakes in the past. One, this is not a president who can run for reelection. No matter if he jokes better from time to time, that's not his plan. Two, this is a Congress that I don't think has ruled out recess -- I wouldn't say, risk appointments, having a recess during which he can make a point.

Is Mike Johnson or John Thune, are they going to say we're not -- we're not -- we're going to hold the line and not let Donald Trump choose who wants even if we defeat them. They haven't gotten there yet. And I think he's operating with the confidence that they wouldn't.

He promised a lot of things to a lot of people during the campaign. You're already saying in Michigan, there are people who talked to Rick Grenell, had meetings with Trump -- one of Trump's son-in-law and were promised a certain sort of policy in the Middle East, in Gaza. And they're already disappointed that he's not delivering on that.

So, there are people who did not vote for this exact version of Donald Trump. They voted for him to lower prices. They vote for him to roll things to less censorship in media. And they're not going to be happy with some of these choices.

But as Phil said, he talked about them. What are his priorities? If you're sitting at home right now as a donor to Trump, saying, well, he talked about tariffs, but I don't think he's actually going to do that because it would be a backlash. Maybe look at these nominations to rethink how confident you are.

RAJU: I mean, and you mentioned recent appointments and the prospects of getting confirmed. That's obviously a big question for a lot of these nominees, and of course, for Matt Gaetz, the attorney general nominee that expected to be the attorney general nominee. There's been a big question about this House Ethics Committee investigation, looking into allegations of sexual misconduct involving Gaetz. Gaetz has denied those allegations, but he resigned abruptly in the aftermath of this announcement. That investigation essentially done, but there's a decision that has to be made by the House Ethics Committee to actually release that information to the public, provide to the Senate as it considers Gaetz's nomination.

This is what Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, just told our reporter -- our colleagues on Capitol Hill just moments ago. He said, he does not think the House Ethics Committee report should be released. He said, I know, he called it a terrible breach of protocol. And he said that he would discuss this with the House Ethics Committee Chairman Michael Gaston, request that the ethics committee not release that report.

GOBA: Isn't this interesting? Mike Johnson is flying in the face of Republicans who said they want to see the documents. So, this is -- I think, this is going to be interesting because this is like sort of the first break we see, way ahead of the nominations right now. And a speaker intervening at this point who has nothing to do with, it's going to be super, super interesting. A lot of people are just anticipating this report to leak anyway. So, I guess it will come out, but --

WEIGEL: I don't know, Manu, you got to go.

RAJU: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: I mean, to be honest, and you may disagree on this. I'm not surprised. I think that House speakers tend to defend the precedent and protocols of their chamber, particularly what involves --

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: -- which they all hate.

RAJU: And as we says, he calls it a terrible breach of protocols (Ph).

MATTINGLY: Yeah. And he's not wrong in the sense of, there is no precedent for the House Ethics Committee, sending materials over to the Senate for confirmation press process. What I would also note is, there's no precedent of a nominee of the cabinet position, having an ongoing Senate or House ethics investigation.

There's not a lot of precedent here. I think, to Kadia's point, like there are other ways to launder this report out into the public. And I -- my sense of things is what I'm not going to say members of the committee, but people around the committee and allies of those on the committee are working through how to actually do that right now.

RAJU: You know, the question also is, you know, all these things coming in, you know, Trump. We talked about. He did say these things of a campaign trail. But what was his mandate coming in, right? And in the National Review said in the headline here, Trump does not have a mandate for chaos. That was the headline of their piece from just yesterday.

And, you know, he had a popular vote win. He won an electoral college. Of course, the first the Republican president to win the popular vote in a number since 2004. But it was a -- you know, it was a small -- it was a close race. You had 50 sitting at 51 percent -- 50.1 percent of the popular vote and a 2 percent (inaudible).

I mean, there's always a risk coming in, right, of overreaching, misreading your mandate. Are there signs that that's what's happening here?

WEIGEL: There been -- there have been several of those. With Joe Biden, a lot of Democrats and certainly Republicans will now say, he came in with a 50-50 Senate, and he won one and act -- and had he tacked it in, had he acted more conservatively, spent less money. He might have been able, or at least Kamala Harris been able to reframe reelection.

George Bush, in 2004 had a bigger congressional majority, much more clear mandate. And within six months, because he went after social security privatization was unpopular, starting the dissolution of that version the Republican Party. So that's obviously a risk, not to repeat myself. But this is not a guy who's going to run for reelection.

And there also are voters that they made it -- they made a bet. We'll talk about Kennedy and Gabbard, I suppose. They made a bet that they were voters who did not care if the wrong, quote, unquote, people were put in these positions, people with the wrong experience, people who wanted to disrupt or demolish or fire everyone their agencies.

There were a lot of those voters. Did they make up the 49.9 for whatever he ends up getting? They did not, but he is serving those people first, and there is a record of serving the most passionate members of your base backfiring eventually.

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RAJU: Yeah. We'll see how that plays out, especially the midterm elections, but that a long way away. This is not even 2025, yet, and it will be here soon. All right. Next, Robert Kennedy Jr. is making -- was promising to make America healthy again. Experts say his ideas, though, could be deadly. Senate Republicans confirm him anyway.

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[12:20:00]

RAJU: Remember the campaign trail when Donald Trump said he let RFK Jr. go quote, wild on health. Well, apparently that means making him secretary of health and human services. A job that oversees the CDC, FDA, the National Institutes of Health and Medicare and Medicaid.

CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell joins me now. So, Meg, you have been talking to health experts who are very worried about Kennedy potentially leading this critical department. MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Manu. I mean, we've heard a lot from Robert F. Kennedy Jr., about this make America healthy again platform. And in one hand, a lot of people agree with a lot of the things he's talking about there, improving the food supply, taking conflicts of interest out of the government, things like that.

But then you start to get into some of his more controversial positions, things like fluoride in the water. He said he will direct public health departments to take fluoride out of the water upon Trump's inauguration. There has been more examination of the risks of fluoride in water recently, but some of the risks that RFK Jr. specifically warns about are found at much, much higher doses than are actually recommended to be in the water supply.

And so, this is a controversial area as well. Although, one that people say could be looked at, and that makes some sense. But then you go to the far end of the spectrum on the rhetoric. We hear from RFK Jr., and that specifically on vaccines. He has been a long-time vaccine skeptic. And he's even been tied to a major measles outbreak in Samoa in 2019.

The governor of Hawaii, who is a physician and went to respond to that outbreak was on with Laura Coates last night. And here's what he said about RFK Jr.'s role in that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH GREEN (D-HI): We had a terrible experience in Samoa. RFK went and rallied that country against vaccinations. When there was a measles outbreak, it resulted in the deaths of 83 innocent children. If he is confirmed as HHS Secretary, what he will do is he will cast doubt on vaccination programs across America.

That will mean thousands and then millions of people will consider not getting vaccinated. We will not have herd immunity, and physicians like myself and pediatricians and all sorts of other healthcare providers will see cataclysmic spread of disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL: Now, RFK Jr. denies discouraging people in Samoa to get vaccinated, but public health experts are very concerned that we are already even seeing some of the impacts of this skepticism about vaccines in the United States. And Manu, they're warning about seeing the rise of diseases like measles, mumps, chicken pox and even polio again here in the U.S.

RAJU: All right, Meg Tirrell, thank you for that report. And my panel is back here in the room. I mean, Dave, you were on the campaign trail a lot with Trump and RFK Jr. How committed is Trump to getting RFK Jr. in the spot, despite the outcry that we'll see if the Senate regress and rejects them. But how committed is he to getting this back?

WEIGEL: Well, very committed. This actually started a long time ago. I'm thinking back to August 2021. Trump is at a rally in Alabama, and he urges people to get vaccinated. This is a vaccine created after operation warp speed. This is something that for a hot minute the administration is very proud of -- proud Trump legacy. The crowd boost.

Later, Trump reveals that he got boosted, the crowd boost. And Trump has been very responsive to the crowd, not to his administration. His record on this, on vaccines in particular. And when it comes to the CDC and the trust people have in government, just to pick up we were saying before, he is appealing, and he won the election with voters who do not trust those institutions.

Right now, there is a CDC run now by medical experts. Right now, are people following its advice on whether to get boosted with a new COVID shot or a flu shot for the holidays? A lot of people aren't. They're operating in the environment partially stoked by Trump, but certainly he went along with it that does not trust medical expertise the way it did before COVID.

And so, that's the larger context for this appointment. If you were arguing against RFK Republican senator, you're arguing against public opinion that shifted a lot in the last four years.

RAJU: And it's interesting is that there's been some backlash on the right, as well as among the Democrats. In part of it is because of his views supporting abortion rights. This is The New York Post has an editorial about that, saying putting RFK Jr. in charge of health breaks the first rule of medicine.

And then Mike Pence. Remember him, Donald Trump's first vice president. I believe the nomination of RFK Jr. to serve the Secretary of HHS is an abrupt departure from the pro-life record of our administration to be deeply concerning to millions of pro-life Americans who have supported the Republican Party and our nominees for decades. How is that?

ALVAREZ: This was fundamentally a mutually beneficial relationship, right? On the campaign trail, this was -- Donald Trump also bringing on RFK Jr. to bring on his voters, because there was a slice of the population that was supporting RFK over the course of the presidential election.

So, what will be in this confirmation process will be interesting for the reasons that you know, with Mike Pence mentioning or talking about abortion, that has been top of mind for many Republicans.

[12:25:00]

And I think also just the 30,000-foot view and talking to officials across some of these agencies, it's the signaling. It's what signal this sense about where Donald Trump is on these issues. How he wants to overhaul these departments? And that, I think, is what is also causing this chilling effect across multiple federal government employees.

MATTINGLY: In terms of -- can I just say?

RAJU: Yeah. MATTINGLY: What you just read both from the post editorial, but from Mike Pence. Mike Pence is a leading indicator here. You are going to see. I would be stunned if the anti-abortion movement, the groups that have a lot of power within the Republican Party, generally, but particularly within the Senate Republican conference, don't come out full bore shortly.

Everybody is a little afraid of Trump right now, understandably so. And today's point, which is a great one. He doesn't have to run again. So, he's kind of willing to cast of side people that he doesn't think are going to help him.

If you're whipping votes in the U.S. Senate right now, what Mike Pence said, and what follows that is what you care about. I don't think the vaccine issue and corning kind of got it -- it might have been with you yesterday where he was like, that doesn't really -- that's not really what I'm focused on. But I'm going to, you know, review his record.

Abortion is a different issue inside that conference. And for 50 or more members to support a nominee with his abortion views in that conference would be an anathema to what we've seen for decades.

RAJU: It will be interesting too, is that, in addition to those issues, something else, like polio, for instance. He's questioned the polio vaccine. Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader -- outgoing Senate Republican leader, was diagnosed at the age of two, more than a decade before the polio vaccine was available. We have not heard McConnell weigh in yet on RFK Jr. nomination. So, that could be a problem for RFK Jr. getting confirmed as well.

GOBA: Yeah. There's probably a reason why McConnell hasn't weighed in. But I would also add, in addition to him responding to his electorate. I remember two months ago, doing a story about who, you know, Trump or Harris would possibly pick in the administration, and who, you know, trying to get an understanding from the campaign, who he listens to.

And I have to say, from several sources, RFK Jr.'s name came up. So, this is a of course, he is relying on him for advice. He is considered a top adviser. And I think if anyone suspects that this is just like something just to shock people, I think they're mistaken, and I think they should probably pay attention that this is someone he is reliant on.

RAJU: We'll wait for those confirmation hearings early next year. All right, coming up. Donald Trump wants to put inexperienced loyalists in top government positions. So, Republican senators stand in his way. I'll ask South Dakota Senator Mike Rounds. He's next.

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