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Today: Vance, Gaetz Meeting With GOP Senators On Capitol Hill; Soon: House Ethics Committee Meets To Discuss Gaetz Report; Source: Trump's Pick To Lead Treasury Could Come Today; Tillis: Lawyer: Client Testified She Saw Gaetz Having Sex With 17-Year-Old; House Ethics Committee To Meet As Calls To Release Gaetz Report Grow; Hegseth Calls Confirmation "A Battle That Is Just Beginning". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, to reveal or conceal? That's the critical question facing the House Ethics Committee today. They're going to meet about an hour from now to discuss what to do with a report into Matt Gaetz's alleged sexual misconduct and illicit drug use. As president-elect Trump says, he's not giving up on Gaetz's nomination.

Plus, a top Senate Republican will be here to discuss Donald Trump's cabinet picks because he thinks of Trump's threat to use a constitutional loophole to put his team in place without Senate consent.

And we're standing by for the sentencing of the undocumented immigrant, just convicted of killing Laken Riley, a young Georgia woman out for a jog earlier this year. We'll take you live to that courtroom.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start today on Capitol Hill where the fate of Donald Trump's cabinet hangs in the balance. Today, vice president-elect J. D. Vance is holding meetings with key senators, and Trump's picks for secretary of state and attorney general.

On the secretary of state front, Marco Rubio is expected to sail through the confirmation process. But Matt Gaetz is a very different story, especially since less than an hour from now, the House Ethics Committee will discuss whether senators should see their investigation into Gaetz before they vote.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill, of course, talking to lawmakers. Where do things stand so far with these meetings that Gaetz is having, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. This is very much an effort by the vice president-elect and Matt Gaetz to try to lock down Republican support. The Democrats are not part of this meeting because Republican support is soft right now.

In fact, getting to the 51 votes he would need to be confirmed by the United States Senate next year, seems at the moment a steep climb, because a number of Republican senators are concerned with this pick. Are concerned about these allegations are detailed in this House ethics report.

A key question today is what that House Ethics Committee decides to do with this report. They plan to meet in about an hour to discuss its fate. Now this all comes as there are questions about what would happen to Matt Gaetz if he does not get the votes to become the attorney general.

Donald Trump has voted the idea of installing Gaetz via a recess appointment, such as short circuiting the Senate process altogether. There is growing Senate Republican opposition to this idea.

One key Senator, Thom Tillis, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he's OK if Donald Trump were to go this route for lower-level nominees, as Barack Obama did for about 33 nominees during his term in office. But he said, not for cabinet nominees like Matt Gaetz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Not for a cabinet level position that should be absolutely off the table. And quite honestly, any serious candidate for cabinet level position, I would have to really wonder if they would want it or be willing to accept it under a recess appointment. These positions are too important and carry too much weight internationally to take a shortcut. However, I really do hope we get at least 33 recess appointments. What do you not know about that report already? Y'all been reporting it.

RAJU: Yeah. But there's -- you know, there's something 45, 50 pages long. There's a lot of detailed in it.

TILLIS: And do you honestly think that the people who testified willingly are not going to share that information?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment referring to, of course, the report -- the House Ethics Committee report, Tillis is under the impression that even if the House Ethics Committee today decides not to release this to the public, that eventually senators will get their hands on it, or at least some of it will leak to the press and will be enough for them to make a critical decision.

But there are others on the Senate Judiciary Committee, including Republicans like the incoming chairman, Chuck Grassley, who says that report could help speed up the confirmation process. It is not released then the Senate Judiciary Committee would have to do its own investigation, potentially slowing down the Gaetz's nomination altogether, which raises the stakes for this critical vote in about an hour. If they decide to vote, Dana, it would require one Republican to break ranks, join with the five Democrats to release the report. We'll see if they get to that point, because up in the last couple of days, Republicans were saying, it is not done yet this report. So, they could decide to punt on this matter until later this year. Dana?

[12:05:00]

BASH: Manu, thank you. Raise your hand if you see any evidence of either J. D. Vance or Matt Gaetz or any of the senators going in and out there. Let's bring in my excellent panel of CNN reporters and colleagues, Eva McKend, Phil Mattingly, and David Chalian, who is not only our political director, but this is the first time he is on Inside Politics as CNN's new D.C. Bureau Chief.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR & WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Thanks.

BASH: Just going to keep adding titles to your very, very impressive resume. We're all very happy for you.

CHALIAN: Appreciate it.

BASH: So, what is my -- no, I'm kidding. Let's talk about some of what we just heard from Manu about these meetings going on right now. Phil Mattingly, it wasn't that long ago that you were chasing senators and chasing people in such meetings.

I know that you've been working the phones. What is your sense of where things stand right now? We can start on the two nominees that J. D. Vance is bringing around, but also some phone calls that I know you're making.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: So, for folks that have already been picked and talking about the folks that were on the Hill today. The meetings are important. I think they're a first step for Vance to kind of be playing his role in the chamber. Tell me who's in those meetings, and I'll tell you how important they actually are. And the people that have been in those meetings are up to this point, thinking specifically.

Marsha Blackburn and Josh Hawley, these are not individuals inside that Republican conference. And I think the Trump team is very concerned about at this point, that doesn't say anything that he's going to meet with lots of people.

It's the folks like Thom Tillis who, I think, is saying out loud a thing that I'm hearing from lots of Senators behind the scenes, related to the former president-elect, talking about recess appointments. That is a very real concern with a majority, I think, of the members in the Senate Republican Conference.

But also, you know, when you have a Susan Collins sitting down in meetings with Matt Gaetz. When you have members that you wouldn't describe them necessarily as moderate politically, but moderate within that conference, then we're going to start to see whether or not the meetings have an effect.

I think you're going to hear a lot in terms of the actual people that have been named about senators want to go through the process. They want to go through the process. And that's always the case. You know that from running around, usually edging me out of on Capitol Hill. But it's also important for Trump -- Trump's kind of perspective on things. If it's going to go down, it has to go down through a full process.

Now, there's also the behind the scenes of picks that are still forthcoming. The biggest one, we've seen the battle spill out in public over the course the last week or two, and that's been for the treasury --

BASH: Yeah. What do you mean --

MATTINGLY: -- secretary nomination. We knew Scott Bessent was up for it. We knew Howard Lutnick was fighting for it. He's now been given commerce and some of the trade portfolio. Bessent is still in the running.

Interestingly, in Texas yesterday, when the president went down with Elon Musk to watch the rocket theatrics, which was actually pretty cool. There's somebody in the background those pictures, Bill Hagerty, the Senator from Tennessee who was interviewing yesterday, I'm told, for the treasury position, was flew with President Trump on the plane.

Those meetings went well, I'm told, but today, President Trump will be meeting at Mar-a-Lago with two other candidates. Kevin Warsh, former Fed governor, also Marc Rowan, who's the CEO, co-founder of Apollo, major fund management group. They need that decision quickly. They wanted that decision last week.

How that decision goes will determine how the NEC position goes, how the DPC position goes. So, the expectation is, today may be the day, but we've seen the fights play out. We've been on those days where today may be the day.

CHALIAN: Yeah. And then, let's go. I think Phil expertly, of course, captured sort of where we are in these things. I do think on the stuff going on in the Hill. It's important also to note, so true, who is Gaetz meeting with? That's the inside game. But there's also the outside game, where public pressure and campaign pressure is going to start being applied.

I mean, Charlie Kirk, has made it clear. The turning point U.S.A., big component of the Trump victory and what he and his organization were helped put together in terms of turnout, young voter engagement, all of that on the conservative side. Threatening primaries to any Republican senator who voted to confirm in Biden's cabinet, Merrick Garland as Attorney General.

But now, potentially, is one of these on the list to watch who may vote against Matt Gaetz. And he's saying, if you do that, you will be primary. There's going to be this conservative pressure on the outside to try and help Trump, even as Gaetz may be faltering in the inside game, which of course, is the one that will determine whether or not finishes the line.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: I agree with David. The pressure campaign will be very real, but these Republican senators will also have to weigh their own legacies and what they personally want to be associated with. I think a good space to watch besides the usual suspects of Murkowski and Collins, are Republican senators who do not fear their reelection, who were recently reelected and are not particularly troubled about a potential primary from the conservative activist wing of the party.

[12:10:00]

BASH: So, you mentioned recess appointments and the fact that there are a lot of Republican senators who are not into that. Let's just hear from some of them, some pretty senior Republicans who are questioning it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I think a recess appointment is going to be very challenging.

TILLIS: Not even in the cars. Again, I know it makes for great fodder, maybe a couple of more clicks or whatever, but I don't even believe Mr. Gaetz would want to come in under those circumstances.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I don't think we should be circumventing the Senate's responsibilities.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD) & MAJORITY LEADER-ELECT: The same Republicans that you mentioned that might have a problem voting for somebody under regular order probably also have a problem voting to put the Senate into recess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And so, you know, just for people who aren't totally up on what we mean by recess appointment, and by this time, I'm guessing, if you're watching the show, you get it. But --

CHALIAN: Take out your pocket.

BASH: Yeah. If they can't -- if Donald Trump can't actually get a nominee through the United States Senate, the idea would be the Senate when they go into recess. He does it without Senate consent. But in order for that to happen, John Thune, the Senate Republican leader, would have to agree to go into recess.

MATTINGLY: Well, and so would --

BASH: Knowing that --

MATTINGLY: -- supporting at his colleagues at a minimum.

BASH: Right. MATTINGLY: And I think this is the difficult thing. What Trump has said, and he did this before -- he started making a lot of these picks, was, I want recess appointments. You'll do recess appointments. There's a reason recess appointments haven't happened in the first Trump administration or the Biden administration. During the Obama administration, the last time there -- I think Manu mentioned, there were 33 of them.

There was a Supreme Court decision that made clear that trying to circumvent Senate procedure where they go into session just for a couple of days and have a pro forma. Now we're really going down the rabbit hole, I apologize, which was done to stop recess appointments, which happened by the hundreds in previous administrations, had to be at least 10 days to, quote, count as a recess.

So basically, for a Senate that doesn't ever do that and has had bipartisan agreement on these pro forma sessions. Thune would have to pass a resolution going into a recess for at least 10 days. He would need a majority of the U.S. Senate to vote with him on that.

If you have people like Thom Tillis, and Mike Rounds and John Cornyn, all saying, you know, I'm a Senator. I like to have some prerogative. It's literally in the constitution that I get to advise and consent on these nominees. Senators like their power. They like their authority, their willingness to give it up, limited.

BASH: just real quick. I want to take a quick broad look at some of the picks that we have seen so far, which really is, if you look at it holistically, classic Donald Trump, a casting call. You have so many former TV stars, TV hosts, entertainment CEOs as part of this. Some have some government experience, I would say many, not most, but many do not.

MCKEND: They don't. And I think that the through line here is that all of these nominees would be coming in with less experience and their counterparts in the current administration. And so often we hear from Republicans that they are principally concerned about merit. The Biden White House took a lot of heat for putting so much emphasis on racial diversity.

The Republicans do not feel burdened by matching that level of racial diversity. But what should be noted is that, yes, the Biden White House is racially diverse, but it's also people with experience in these roles, decades of experience, that we are not seeing from the names put forth by the former president.

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: Yeah. As you said, Donald Trump never promised anybody, a cabinet full of long-time experience. He promised the voters. There's no hiding the ball during the Trump campaign about what he intended to do, what his cabinet would look like. I think he's fulfilling it.

And you know, yes, it's very TV host friendly, somebody smart on the internet should come up a little theme song to put behind the graphic of all the images, but Donald Trump's giving us what he promised. BASH: All right, everybody, standby. Will Republican senators vote for Matt Gaetz without seeing that ethics committee report? I'll speak with one of the new Senate Republican leaders, top allies. Plus, we are standing by for the sentencing in the Laken Riley case after a judge found Jose Ibarra guilty on all charges. We'll be right back.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: About an hour from now, the House Ethics Committee will meet to discuss whether to release its report into president-elect Trump's pick for attorney general, Matt Gaetz. It's reportedly a damning document, detailing Gaetz's alleged sexual misconduct and illicit drug use.

Even Republican senators are saying they want to see that report before voting on his nominations. That includes the man you're seeing right now, North Dakota Senator Kevin Cramer. Thank you so much, Senator for being here. I really appreciate it.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): My pleasure.

BASH: As I mentioned, you have said that you want to see the House ethics report on Gaetz. But my question is, even without it, you do already see people speaking out. An attorney for two women who say, Gaetz paid them for sex, also said they provided the committee with numerous photos of time they spent with Gaetz. One woman testified that she witnessed having sex with a minor. Again, without the report, just does that information give you pause.

CRAMER: Well, it would, Dana. If the FBI hadn't dropped the investigation, which tells me something about either the credibility of the testimony or not enough for some reason, the FBI looked into all this and decided not to move forward.

[12:20:00]

That said, Dana, whether they released the report or not, it will certainly be reported. If not released, it will be repeated by the Senate Judiciary Committee, because all those same witnesses to your point that are coming up publicly, and many more and much more evidence will be just as available to Senate Judiciary investigators. And of course, they have subpoena power.

So, I think we just have to let this process play out and we'll get to it, let this process play out. So, one way or another, I think that the information damning or not, will at least come to the committee members first and then to the rest of the senators, if in fact, it comes to a vote on the floor.

BASH: That's really interesting. So, you feel confident that you're -- that the staff on the Judiciary Committee, the Republican staff, in addition to the Democratic staff, will seek out this information and try to either confirm it or bring some of these people privately to talk to staff, even senators.

CRAMER: Well, I would certainly think so, because that is part of the job of vetting, particularly you know, judicial nominees and attorneys general and important positions, obviously, their job is to, in fact, do an investigation. The FBI does a background check. And if the not the FBI, then the Judiciary Committee staff and investigators, and they have all of those same tools. So, yeah, I can't imagine that the committee would even have a markup without having -- had done a thorough background check.

BASH: Let's talk for a minute about recess appointments. I know that you don't think it would be wise for Matt Gaetz in particular, to be put in place as attorney general via recess appointment without a vote from the United States Senate. Do you believe that there are enough Republicans who are with you, who would buck Donald Trump if it came to that?

CRAMER: I don't know, but I suspect there are and for very good reasons. Dana, I mean, first of all, the constitutionality of three co equal branches, and one of those branches being split into two different bodies is pretty profound, and it's pretty critical to this incredible experiment of the United States of America.

That said, to your point, there is a constitutional mention of recess appointments. However, it's -- I don't know why you would ever want to be a cabinet secretary or, you know, an A.G., that was confirmed through a recess appointment, when clearly a majority of the Senate doesn't support you.

I just think that's a set up for weakness. I don't think it's what they aspire to President Trump. I've spent six hours with him yesterday. He never brought up the point or the issue of recess appointments. So, there's both, the ethical and constitutional question of separation.

But also, the history of it, while there have been a lot of them, as you know, and there's been a lot of talk of it lately that go back to the Bush and Obama eras. I don't know that there's been more than maybe one, if even that was actual cabinet secretary.

So, I think it's fine. We know where there are over 1200 people that positions that are confirmed by the Senate. But cabinet secretaries are special, and then A.G. is pretty high-ranking cabinet official.

BASH: Yeah. I mean the fact that you're talking within the traditional contours of what the Senate usually does and what the constitution says is not nothing given the fact that Donald Trump, you know, is a different kind of person. Let's put it that way. And has promised to be a different kind of president. You said that you spent time with him yesterday. I know you've spoken to him. What is his message on Gaetz and on other nominees?

CRAMER: Well, to be honest, you know, in the six hours we were together on the plane, and then several hours, you know, at the launch. The issue Matt Gaetz only came up in the context of, you know, I hope we can get this done. I hope this happens. He didn't -- he wasn't lobbying me. There anybody else that --

BASH: Did that surprise you?

CRAMER: It did a little bit, except that Donald Trump had talks about a lot of things. He is -- he has a lot of information in his head. He's interested in lots of things, from golf to, you know, to entertainment to how good the food is. So, it didn't shock me necessarily. He's got his mechanisms, you know, in place. He's got J. D. here, as you point out. Today, he's got Matt himself, who's making calls.

And all of that is part of the process and that's good. But, and to your point about Donald Trump's a disrupter, nobody should be surprised that he's fulfilling that promise you're talking about to also appoint disruptors, and I applaud him for it. He's responding to the American people that elected him. And he's fulfilling that promise. And I'm eager to help him do it for the most part.

BASH: I do want to ask about the president-elect's pick for department -- for the Department of Defense, for defense secretary, because you're on the Armed Services Committee.

CRAMER: I am.

BASH: What makes him qualified to lead a department that employs millions of military and civilian employees?

[12:25:00]

CRAMER: Well, first of all, the beauty of our system is that the only requirement is that he gets appointed by the president and confirmed by the United States Senate. Just like our only qualification for these jobs is to get more votes than the other person. That's why when Winston Churchill said, the worst thing that could happen to the government of states is for it to fall into the hands of the experts, because expert knowledge is limited knowledge. What Pete brings is a warrior's heart. He's a warrior's warrior.

And I think for a long time, and I've heard this from lots of troops, they get a little bit tired of the politicians in the Pentagon not really worrying about them. And Pete brings that advantage. And I think Donald Trump, it fits right into to his mantra. Now that said, the Pentagon is a big place and has lots of leaders. Some of them wear uniform, some of them do not.

And I am confident, and I be visiting with Pete about this, that he'll surround himself with good, operational people who can do a lot of the, you know, the day-to-day important stuff that needs to be done, while he remains the face of that that great face, by the way, of a nation that believes in peace through strength. Pete exudes that, avoid war by preventing war. And so, I just think Pete's a really good face of the Pentagon.

BASH: Before I let you go, I want you to respond to something that Pete Hegseth said about the chairman of the joint chiefs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: So, there's a chance to course correct it, but it would take the new -- a new Trump administration going after it really hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would they correct it?

HEGSETH: Well, first of all, you got to fire. You got to fire the chairman of joint chiefs. And you got to fire this. I mean, obviously you're going to bring in a new secretary of defense, but any general that was involved, general, admiral, whatever that was involved in any of the DEI woke shit, it's got to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You, along with 82 senators, voted to confirm the current chair of the joint chiefs, who is only the second black man to ever serve in that position. Do you agree should he be fired?

CRAMER: I do not agree, Dana, that he should be fired. I know CQ Brown pretty well. I've had plenty of disagreements with CQ Brown, but I've never seen him as promoting DEI in any way, shape or form. He is, as you said, a black general, and he does occasionally, and I appreciate his experience as a young black officer.

And I think it's a rich and I think it adds value, but he has never been anything but a great warrior. I mean, he has an incredible record as a combatant commander. He's soft spoken, but he does carry a big stick, to quote my favorite president from North Dakota.

So, you just have -- I just think Pete's wrong on this -- on that particular point. No, I don't -- that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some generals that are fired. But what I don't think is that we ought to go out and talk about a commission to go after all the woke generals. Generals even with four stars salute to a political leader. That's a really important part of our constitution as well. That our military, even George Washington had to surrender his commission, right?

So, that's a rich part of our leadership. I would encourage Pete and the president to visit with CQ Brown and judge for yourself. Ask him tough questions if you want. But I want our troops to look at our generals and our political leadership and go, I would like to be one of those guys. I want to aspire to that.

We have a recruiting problem because of the DEI nonsense that the political class put out there. Remember when Gina Ortiz was the under secretary of the Air Force, she drove generals out of the air force because they wouldn't read out loud to their troops that her DEI statement. So, we don't want to -- we don't want to be the reverse of that. We want to be respectful of -- I think of the men and women that wear the uniform. And then if there's necessary, you know, moves make them, but I don't want to pre signal anything.

BASH: Really interesting. Thank you so much for coming on, Senator Cramer. CRAMER: Always my pleasure. Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Up next. All the attention is on the people Trump is naming to the presidential cabinet. But the real power may lie within the Trump White House among aides who don't need Senate confirmation. Kristen Holmes will be here to tell us about some of those people. In any minute now, sentencing in the Laken Riley case after a judge found Jose Ibarra guilty on all charges. We'll be right back.

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