Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Top Trump Aide Accused Of Asking Job-Seekers For Money; Special Counsel Jack Smith Drops Federal Cases Against Trump; Older Voters Who Backed Harris Grapple With Elections Results. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 26, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: -- about what the fate may ultimately be for Boris Epshteyn.

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: All right, great reporting. Sarah Murray, thank you for that.

My panel's back in the room. The Trump world is back. I mean, this has really been the story in a lot of ways of what Trump's first term was, that there are advisors working behind the scenes and they're back. There's, you know, knife fighting, metaphorical knife fighting that, you know, I mean, there's -- there's a reason why this got out to the press is because there are people who want Boris to go away.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, some cracks starting to show themselves, you know, in -- in Trump world. And -- and we saw a lot of this also the first time around too, different sort of factions of advisors around the President all trying to stake, you know, and gain more influence. And at times you see stories like this come out as a result, you know, as well.

But, you know, the details of this now are -- are interesting. It'll be interesting to see the fallout also of this review, particularly the idea that now you were, I mean, asking potential appointees or your -- for -- for money in order to promote them in Mar-a-Lago, you know, and -- and promote them to people that had the influence of the president. It will be interesting to see sort of how this review moves forward.

RAJU: Anna, you're an expert in the underbellies of Washington, the case trade, the lobbying, the pay to play. Is this unusual in that world, what he has reported, allegedly did?

ANNA PALMER, FOUNDER & CEO, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Yes. I think there's a couple of things that are really important here. One is that he was an actual figure in the transition. It's not the idea that you want to have kind of a Sherpa or somebody guide you to help put your name forward. Isn't that surprising? But it's the proximity to Trump that is what is the difference here, clearly, I do think the big question for me is loyalty is the most important thing to Donald Trump. And Boris has been with him for a very long time, has defended him through the ups and downs. And so maybe this is a blip and he continues to remain in that orbit. Clearly he's trying to. RAJU: Despite what the Trump transition, before you jump in, Vivian, this is what Trump himself said to -- to John Solomon of "Just the News" on Monday. He said, I suppose every president has people around them who tried to make money off them on the outside. It's a shame, but it happened. But it happens, he says. But no one working for me in any capacity should be looking to make money.

VIVIAN SALAMA, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: You know, he does not mention Boris Epshteyn by name. You know, he doesn't mention anybody there. But obviously, you know, one can -- can take away or assume that there is some concern behind the scenes.

But what's interesting is right now, the newest dynamic that's unfolding is that, you're right, there -- he values loyalty so much. But there are all these new people that are now surrounding Trump in his orbit as well. And they're highly influential, everyone from Susie Wiles, the incoming chief of staff, to Elon Musk and others.

RAJU: Who they apparently had a dust up about, according to the reporting.

SALAMA: Who they had a dust up, I'd say. And -- and I have sources to confirm that as well. And so you have this dynamic where Trump is now having to look at some of these people like Boris, who have been with him through thick and thin, even when he was a bit of a political pariah after the 2020 election, and have stayed with him throughout. Or these new advisors who are trying to enforce discipline, keep -- get his White House ready to -- to run on day one, and -- and just kind of have a bit of structure that he wasn't used to in the past.

And so here you have these two factions that are clearly but -- butting heads, especially through the nominations process, where they're all kind of trying to push their own candidates.

RAJU: Yes.

SALAMA: And it's really come to head. It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out.

RAJU: Mean -- meantime, of course, over the last day, significant news in the special counsel's investigation of the criminal charges that Donald Trump faced in the run-up to the elections. Smith, of course, is saying that they would not move forward with this case to judge in that federal election subversion case agreeing with that, essentially dismissing -- dismissing that case.

This is how our CNN colleague, Stephen Collinson, writes about what happened. January 6th, the accountability, and what will, about -- about Trump as well. Special counsel Jack Smith's failed prosecutions ended up making Trump even more powerful. As a Boolean president-elect prepares to return to office, ironically, the very democracy that Trump had tried to subvert produced his legal deliverance. He says it would be -- it would make Trump even more powerful. This has been two years in the making. Trump is going to walk away scot-free.

KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, we know that part of the motivation for Trump during the campaign for trying to seek office for a second time were these legal cases as well. The idea that if you made it to office, then you would be able, then these cases would be shut down, right? There is a little bit of difference between the federal cases and the state cases, but for the most part, you know, he is going to make it to office and be able to escape these legal troubles here.

I do think it's interesting that Jack Smith, you know, as he was closing these cases, made a point to show that this was due to legal tradition, legal norms, rather than merit of the cases. That almost seemed like a way for him to send a message out to the public, you know, as he closes these downs. But at the same time, you know, we know that the Justice Department does have this tradition of not prosecuting a sitting president.

[12:35:02]

RAJU: And -- and that's why, because of the guidelines existing in the Justice Department. This is an unprecedented situation, a president- elect facing criminal charges and saying that because of the Justice Department guidelines against prosecuting a sitting president, he could not move forward, but does not speak to the merits of the case. And that could be out in the public report too.

PALMER: Right, I think the report is going to be what is so key here, right? Because not only he's kind of alluded to the fact of what the merits of the case were, the report is going to have the details, the meat that we probably don't already know. I think the other big thing here is Democrats should be doing some soul searching. It took Merrick Garland two years to appoint a special counsel. That time and that delay had big impacts about how fast that case could go forward.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Something that at times also, the Biden White House and officials in the Biden White House were frustrated by as well.

RAJU: They wouldn't say that publicly. Democrats on the Hill definitely did, and you heard some of that concern just yesterday.

SALAMA: Absolutely.

RAJU: All right, coming up, John King goes back to Pennsylvania to talk to seniors who supported Vice President Harris. And now fear what's ahead with Trump in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARRELL ANN MURPHY, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I feel like I'm standing on the edge of a cliff and like everything's kind of falling down around me. It -- it's falling down. What -- what happened to the foundation? What happened? Will America fall down?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:45] RAJU: Shock, anger, and worry. Those are just some of the words that came up when John King went back to Battleground, Pennsylvania and spoke with a group of seniors for the first time since the election. Here's the latest from All Over the Map.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pat Levin is 95 years young, fit and feisty.

KING: Trying to keep up with you, Pat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's off to the races.

KING (voice-over): A lifelong Democrat, scared and stunned. Donald Trump will be president in her twilight.

PAT LEVIN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I want to fight, I think. I don't want to fight, but I think I have to because I think there's no such thing as staying neutral. I think once you stay neutral, it's the oppressor who wins and the oppressed who suffer.

KING: You use the term oppressor. I assume when Richard Nixon won or Ronald Reagan won or either the George Bushes won, even though you're a Democrat, I'm guessing you didn't use that term.

LEVIN: Never, never.

KING: What does that tell you about how you feel and what you see?

LEVIN: Well, I -- I see a man who is not our regime now, who is not paying much attention to our history and to our -- to our norms, the Democratic norms that we have always lived by.

KING (voice-over): Republican friends tell Levin to relax. That Trump will fix the border and juice the economy, that all will be fine. FDR was president when Levin got her first taste of politics. She's seen a lot, trusts her instincts.

LEVIN: His willingness to go around the intent of our constitution and the democracy that we live in scares me. His people that he's nominating now, they scare me. Is Elon Musk the shadow president or is Vance really the vice president? Isn't that scary to have to ask that question? Have we ever had to ask that before?

KING (voice-over): Levin sees mass deportations as mean and harmful to the economy, sees Trump rewarding men accused of sexual misconduct, sees women's rights in retreat, sees her American dream, the idea you leave things better than you found them, at severe risk.

LEVIN: That's why I'm afraid. I'm not so afraid for me. I'm not going to be around probably to experience it. But I'm afraid for those I love, for those I don't love, those I know, those I don't know. It's all those people coming after me who might have to live under this.

KING (voice-over): This is Northampton County, Pennsylvania, a place that picks presidents. The county has now backed the winner in five straight presidential elections, and in all but three over the past 100 years. Northampton's rural stretches are ruby red Trump country. Democratic hopes rest on the county's two urban anchors, Bethlehem and Easton.

MARVIN BOYER, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: -- goes to our food pantry.

KING (voice-over): Lifelong Easton resident Marvin Boyer is still shocked at the size of Trump's win, but not shocked he won.

BOYER: There's any number of reasons why it went the way it did, the economy being one. I believe racism played a role in it, misogyny.

KING (voice-over): Plus, more Black men voted for Trump this time.

BOYER: Why would you vote for an individual who I think is a racist, who is a misogynist, who is with the January 6th situation? Why would you vote for a guy like that? Because he tells it like it is. And that resonates with me. It's one of the things that I hear from Black men who support Trump, you know?

Can't have Thanksgiving without the turkey.

KING (voice-over): Boyer is a lifelong civil rights and community activist. These Thanksgiving meal bags filled in a room dedicated to his mother.

BOYER: There's a hero that's the one.

KING (voice-over): The Easton Community Garden, another way to lend a hand. Helping others helps Boyer channel his disappointment. And he urges angry Democrats to do the same.

BOYER: Because I often run into people who complain a lot, you know, and I'm a doer. And I say be the change that you want to see in the community. Get involved in a local organization. Be more of an activist.

DARRELL ANN MURPHY, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: You're not going to believe this, ladies. Look at the jokers.

KING (voice-over): Darrell Ann Murphy, is already doing just that.

MURPHY: Friends of mine have started groups. We're calling it the Quiet Resistance. It's -- I feel like I'm standing on the edge of a cliff and like, everything's kind of falling down around me. It's falling down. What happened to the foundation? What happened? Will America fall down? I never had thought this. I never thought this. This is just a -- this is just a huge shock to seniors, John, huge.

OK, now we're going to rack them and see what we got.

[12:45:02]

KING (voice-over): Murphy teaches the Chinese tile game, Mahjong. Our third time at the table over the past year. Third time Murphy and Catherine Long have sparred with Pam Aita.

PAM AITA, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I don't have to have dinner with Donald Trump. I don't care what he does. Just keep me safe, keep my grandkids safe and have money in our pockets. That's all.

CATHERINE LONG, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I'm scared to death of what he's going to do. And some of that comes from what's happening with his cabinet choices.

AITA: I think we have to just knock it off. He's president for four years. We'll have another election --

LONG: We hope.

AITA: -- and then, you know.

LONG: I have fears that he won't leave.

AITA: Oh come on. That's ridiculous.

LONG: I'm not kidding. I have fears that he won't leave.

KING (voice-over): A debate for the next four years.

MURPHY: If we're still here on this earth.

AITA: Yes. We might not even be here, John. Do you ever think of that?

KING: I'm not -- I'm not going to allow myself to think about.

KING (voice-over): Back to the game. Won on this day --

AITA: Mahjong.

KING: -- by the Trump supporter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: All right, and John King, the former host of Inside Politics, back here sitting with us. What a fascinating take. And just the reporting all along this past year has been fantastic. What is your, just a snapshot of how voters are feeling post-election? What was your biggest takeaway?

KING: Well, this group's important because of who they are and where they live, senior citizens, elderly voters, the most reliable voters. And nationally, Trump and Harris split them, 49 percent to 49 percent.

But in the battleground states, the seven battleground states, Trump won the elderly vote in five of the seven battleground states, including Pennsylvania. They were a key part of his coalition. Where they live is important too because there are now only 15 counties in America, 15 counties in America, that have gotten it right in five elections in a row.

Meaning twice for Obama, then for Trump, then flip back to Biden, and then flip back to Trump.

RAJU: Wow.

KING: And Northampton County, where those ladies live, is one of them, where Marvin Boyer lives as well. So it's one of the places that tends to pick the president. So you study it as much as you can.

RAJU: And the voters there, they really just showed you this, especially the Democratic voters, talking about how to deal with Trump, the Quiet Resistance. Oh, I'm concerned that he's not going to leave another four years. And some saying that, you know, we should, you know, fight him tooth and nail. What is your -- what was your takeaway from talking to voters about how they think Democrats should approach this?

KING: One of the biggest takeaways was you had that one Trump supporter at the table. These people have proven that they can fight like cats and dogs about these things, but still smile and laugh and get together next week and play again. That's a lesson the country could learn because a lot of relationships are frayed by fights over politics, especially fights over Trump.

But number two, how matter of factly these older voters, Darrell Ann Murphy is 84 there, Pam Levin at the top of the piece was 95, talk about how they want to fight even though they're not sure they'll be here for the next election.

The -- the Harris supporters, the lifelong Democrats, about how sad they are that Donald Trump will be president and what they believe will be their twilight. And yet they matter of factly and candidly talk about their own vulnerability, but their belief that they need to fight. They need to, if not for -- for their children, for their grandchildren, for their neighbors, even if they won't be here to vote in the next election.

RAJU: In the meantime, the Harris senior advisor, David Plouffe, was talking to a podcast, "Pod Save America," for the first time, talking about what he believed went wrong. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PLOUFFE, SENIOR ADVISER TO HARRIS/WALZ CAMPAIGN: I think when Kamala Harris became the nominee, she was behind. We kind of, you know, climbed back and even post-debate, you know, we still had ourselves down, you know, in the battleground states, but very close. I think where Kamala Harris campaigned, we were able to keep the tide down a little bit, but it ended up being a pretty strong, you know, tailwind for Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: You know, there's a lot of things the Harris team did wrong here that we can go back and look. But in your travels across the country, what do you think really stuck out? What was the glaring deficiency with the Harris campaign KING: Did not convince people that she understood the toll the cost of living had taken on them, especially after COVID. You had the COVID punch, then the hangover of cost of living, and she didn't convince people that she would be different from Joe Biden, that she understood how much that had hurt working families. And that's why, you know, Trump won all seven of the battleground states, won the popular vote, narrow margin of the popular vote, but she just didn't present herself as a reasonable alternative. And the Trump campaign, very effective in their advertising, is saying, she's Biden.

You're mad at Biden. She's part -- she's part of the problem. And she did not make a strong enough case about that. And, you know, she only had 110 days, Manu, it's very difficult to do that. Most people take four years to run for president, even more. But she made a couple of unforced errors, including when she sat down in The View, and said, what would you do differently? Nothing comes to mind. That hurt her in the cost of living argument that decided this election.

RAJU: Yes, it's such good reporting. Did you learn how to play Mahjong, by the way?

KING: I'm trying to learn. I promised -- I promised the ladies, if they hung in there for four more years, I'd be a Mahjong player by the next cycle.

RAJU: OK, great report. John King, thanks for being here.

[12:49:43]

And up next for us, did the warriors against corporate DEI just win their biggest battle yet? It looks like Walmart is rolling back more than just prices.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: Conservatives fighting back against corporate DEI may have scored their biggest victory yet. Walmart, the nation's largest private employer, just announced it is rolling back its diversity, equity, and inclusivity initiatives. It made outcries over so-called corporate wokeism and claims that DEI is more divisive than inclusive. Walmart says it's ending racial equity training programs for staff, evaluating programs designed to increase supplier diversity, reviewing funding of pride events, and removing sexual or transgender products marketed to children.

Now, Walmart defends the move, saying, quote, we have been on a journey. I know we aren't perfect, but every decision comes from a place of wanting to foster a sense of belonging. Other companies making similar moves, they include Harley-Davidson, Tractor Supply, and John Deere. And don't forget the efforts in Congress.

[12:55:06]

Texas Republican Michael Cloud's Dismantle DEI Act is aimed at eliminating DEI from the federal government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHAEL CLOUD (R-TX): DEI ideology simply does not work and only serves to divide our country. DEI ideology also results in absurd government-funded programs and has been a complete waste of taxpayer dollars and is dangerous.

REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): This Republican approach is as predictable as it is nonsensical. On one hand, they're saying that racism does not exist. On the other hand, they are saying there is rampant reverse racism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, despite the pushback, the bill passed out of committee last week on a party-line vote, and Vice President-elect JD Vance previously sponsored a similar bill in the Senate.

Thanks for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)