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South Korea President Declares Martial Law; S Korean Lawmakers Vote To Block Marital Law Decree; Hegseth To Meet With GOP Sens Amid New Misconduct Allegations; Trump's Pentagon Pick Facing New Misconduct Allegation. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 03, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, scenes of chaos and fear. We're tracking the breaking news out of South Korea. A keen U.S. ally is reeling after its democratically elected president declared martial law. CNN is live on the ground with the latest.

Plus, booze unwanted advances and an Islamophobic chant. Those are some. Only some of the new allegations facing Donald Trump's pick to run the Pentagon as Pete Hegseth attempts damage control once again on Capitol Hill.

And what's the point of the moral high ground? Top strategists from both parties will debate the question many are grappling with in the political environment, where, right now, it seems nothing matters anymore.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We're going to start with that breaking news, almost 7000 miles away that could have major implications here in the United States. The president of South Korea declared martial law, but moments ago, the parliament voted his move was invalid. We've been watching the scenes unfold against the backdrop, a major questions about the qualifications of Donald Trump's picks to lead the U.S. defense and intelligence agencies.

CNN's Mike Valerio is live in Seoul, right near the National Assembly. Tell us what's going on right now, Mike?

MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, protesters are starting to disperse, and members of the military, Dana, are starting to push back from the National Assembly, the heart of South Korean politics. Bringing this back to D.C., Dana, why this is so important? One of the myriad ways why this is important.

We have about 30,000 U.S. troops here in South Korea. Democracy in South Korea is paramount to continue the relationship in the alliance between South Korea and the United States. Showing you what is happening, a couple yards behind me right here. If you go down this street, Dana, and then turn right, you're looking front and center at the imposing, beautiful South Korean National Assembly.

All of these white busses that you see on the right, they hold about two dozen police officers. So, how we started here, we have the conservative President of South Korea, Yoon Suk Yeol, stunning the nation earlier tonight. Addressing South Korea on television and saying, because of his words, paraphrasing here, North Korean elements within government and within communist sympathizers within government, he was declaring martial law.

But how he was declaring martial law and what specific elements that entailed remained unclear, stunning so many people. So, whole multitudes of protesters, came a couple yards behind us to the National Assembly to say, we got to cancel this. We have to overturn this declaration of martial law, and that is exactly what happened.

Members of the opposition party, the Liberal Democratic Party were able to come back and vote by a simple majority in the legislature to overturn martial law, still astounding to say here in South Korea.

So, Dana, in terms of what happens next. We're going to see the tableau, see how the president response to this. But to bring in -- let's bring in -- bring in the South Korean perspective. We met you here on the streets. You're a South Korean 18-year-old university student. Just tell our viewers in the United States and around the world, what was your reaction when you heard the news at home of martial law?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was appalled, because obviously, martial law is a very sensitive topic here in Korea. The last time it was declared, it was 1980 when it was declared by the dictator President Chun Doo-hwan, which resulted in many civilian casualties.

It's acknowledged as a historical disaster. And just the fact that the president took the martial law as something simple enough to simply declare in the middle of the night with no -- clearly no valid reason. It was simply outrageous to watch as a Korean citizen.

VALERIO: Do you feel afraid? How do you feel in this moment? Martial law has been overturned? How are you feeling about the next day, the next week or so, then your near future?

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, I am very proud to be standing there as a Korean citizen, while supporting our democracy in this whole protest to overturn the martial law. And I really believe that this shows the essentially the power of, like Korean citizens, people in Korea.

VALERIO: Let's leave it right there. We're going to come back to you. But, Dana, that's the latest. We're waiting the next move of President Yoon. Again, an American ally, South Korea, the parliament overturning martial law in this bastion of democracy in East Asia, Dana.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that the parliament was able to do that overturn martial law, suggests that democracy is working even in the face of this extraordinary move. We'll see what happens to President Yoon. Thank you so much for that terrific report, Mike. Appreciate it.

Let's go over to the Pentagon, Oren Lieberman, is there. Oren, you just heard Mike talk about the tens of thousands of American service members who are on the ground in that region, in South Korea in particular. What are you hearing from your sources at the Pentagon any concern about that?

OREN LIEBERMAN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. is watching this and monitoring this situation very closely. The Biden administration, according to the National Security Council, is already in touch with South Korean counterparts as they monitor what's happening here. This matters tremendously, not just because of the military presence, but also because of the alliance in the partnership between the countries, that is -- that goes well beyond just the military.

As Mike pointed out, there are 28,500 U.S. service members in South Korea. That is one of the largest presences of U.S. troops overseas. And that matters a tremendous amount, led by a four-star commander Army, General Paul LaCamera. So that is one of those elements that matters critically here, and the relationship between the two countries essentially maintaining that democracy is an important part of maintaining the U.S. troop presence there.

Now we haven't gotten details on what those conversations look like, or who exactly is holding those conversations between the U.S. and South Korea, but this is certainly something the U.S. will be watching very closely and trying to have whatever influence it can to essentially make sure the democratic principles that undergird the South Korean government are not toppled by this declaration of a of military control here.

So, the U.S. is watching this very closely. There have not been any changes to U.S. military force posture in South Korea at this point, no major changes to speak of. Now look, part of that may be the hour. It's two in the morning over there, and this has only been unfolding in the last several hours. So, this is something we will still watch very closely here, until there's some sort of resolution.

BASH: And then the question Oren is, what is going on to the north of the DMZ there, North Korea? This is, I'm guessing, that Kim is, you know, enjoying this quite a bit, seeing what's going on with its democratic government to his south. But of course, I'm guessing there is a question about the North Korean posture inside the Pentagon, given what's going on in South Korea.

LIEBERMAN: No doubt about that. It was just a couple of weeks ago that National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan says, he doesn't believe we can count on a period of quiet from the north. This after -- over the course of the past several weeks, North Korea has launched several missiles, including the intercontinental ballistic missile, as it tested and pushed its latest technology.

The question, what do they do now? And that's something the U.S. is watching very closely. North Korea has effectively, traditionally launched off missiles or carried out some sort of testing of military weaponry as a message to the U.S. and to South Korea when there are military exercises or when they feel in some way they are being encroached upon and President Yoon's statement that this was effectively North Korean actors trying to push an anti-state, North Korean message that may be enough to trigger North Korea to carry out some sort of -- some sort of either launch or military exercise of its own.

Now, in the past, it has been the U.S., South Korea and Japan, coordinating very closely when they see that, is that at risk, probably at this point, probably not at risk in any way. But those are the types of questions that we will look through, that the U.S. and the Pentagon will look through, depending on how all this plays out.

BASH: Yeah. And those images are just eerie. They are -- well, we'll talk about that in a second. Thank you so much for that reporting, Oren. I appreciate it. Back to what I was going to say. Let's talk about so much of this with our terrific reporters here at the table. CNN's MJ Lee, John Bresnahan from Punchbowl News, and CNN's very own Phil Mattingly. Thank you so much, one and all for being here.

You know, we talked about this a little bit. I'm looking at those pictures thinking, you know, it was four years ago that we had images very different circumstances, but images of a government that was being overrun.

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Before we get to that, MJ, you covered the White House. You also have a deep knowledge about this region. What are you hearing from White House officials? And what is your sense of how this is going to play out from here?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, what's happening right now is that the White House is still trying to process these scenes coming out of South Korea. They were just as surprised as anybody else here or folks on the ground at this turn of events.

I mean, just so extraordinary and unexpected that you could see the president of South Korea in year 2024 declaring martial law. That hasn't existed in that country in a number of decades since the late 1980s when the country was still under military dictatorship.

The White House really hasn't said much. Oren referred to the NSC spokesperson, National Security Council spokesperson, saying, we are monitoring the situation. We are in touch with the ROK government. I just had a senior administration official telling me this is obvious. They are seriously concerned by the development.

So again, I think they're just taking in what has happened and trying to process and trying to figure out what exactly their public, you know, statement and position should be. There's definitely a moment and it is coming quickly where President Biden, I think himself, needs to address this and needs to address it directly.

This is a president who, of course, has talked so consistently and so frequently about the importance of protecting democracy here at home and democracies around the world and the U.S.'s role in preserving those institutions. And he will have to weigh in on how he is processing these scenes, you know, and scenes prompted by somebody who has been an ally and a leader that he has met with multiple times and really rolled out red carpet for Yoon Suk Yeol, yeah.

BASH: So, as you're describing what President Biden is expected to do, he is actually speaking. We should remind our viewers that he is on a international trip. He's in Africa, Angola in particular. He's at an event right now. He has not addressed this issue. We are going to monitor that and see if he does.

But as we watch and listen for that, MJ, just talk a little bit about your deep knowledge of the region. You mentioned that this is the first time that martial law has been declared since it was ruled by military dictatorship in the 1980s. Can you just elaborate on that?

LEE: Yeah. You know, I was saying this in the last hour, just for context here. The reason that this is going to be just -- so I think emotionally jarring for the folks in Korea is because this is not really distant history. The fact that this kind of thing could happen in the streets of Seoul, for folks who are in my parents' generation, certainly my grandparents' generation, this is what they lived through --

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I was born in South Korea. The very last year that there was a military dictatorship. And soon after I was born, there was the first democratic presidential election that elected Roh Tae-Woo. And obviously, the country has evolved and developed so much since then. But we now talk about South Korea as one of the most important democratic countries and a vibrant democratic country in Asia that we look to and point to often as a model.

So, just seeing these headlines, seeing these scenes, knowing that this is possible. I think, just in and of itself, in the context of South Korean history, is important. Obviously, we around the table should talk about why this should be an important thing for Americans to pay attention --

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BASH: Right. Well, that's what I want to --

LEE: -- particularly, given that Donald Trump is about to be president in a number of weeks. Somebody who has said, he wants to use the military to go after his own enemies.

BASH: Well, pick up on that?

JOHN BRESNAHAN, CO-FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Yeah. I mean, I think, MJ's points are very -- she's right on point here. I mean, they really rolled out the red carpet for you. And, I mean, he had a state visit last year at a state dinner with Biden. We -- you know, they issued a declaration Biden and Yoon. I mean -- and now the thought -- you know, we were seeing soldiers entering the national assembly.

I mean, you talked about shockingly, the parallels of January 6, just the image of a democracy facing this kind of crisis. I think this is something that people are scared about, or Democrats are scared about when they think about Trump's return. Because he has used - he has -- like, he's encouraged the use of force to achieve political goals, and you know, or try to achieve a political goal on January 6, and you know, where at least played with it.

And you know, he's talked about now pardoning some of these folks on January 6, the rioters, the insurrections what you want to call them. So, you know, this is on the top of people's mind. And then I think when they see scenes like this, it's just shocking to see a decades long democracy, one of the closest U.S. allies in the region in the world, have this go through this kind of convulsion.

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I think it's just, you know, it's stunned Washington, Capitol Hill. I'm trying to get response from people. Nobody wants to say anything because they don't know how to deal with.

BASH: Well, on that note, I was just told that President Biden was asked about it as he finished his speech. His response was, I'm just getting briefed. Can you pick up on that, but also talk about the Trump of it all.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. The geopolitical moment within which the president-elect will be taking office is extraordinary. And I say that because, you know, to MJ's great point and to Bres's great point as well. You know, President Yoon has been an extraordinarily close ally of the Biden administration for all of his domestic turmoil and foibles, of which the administration probably doesn't want to weigh in too much.

He has been critical to their Indo Pacific strategy. The relationship that they were able to establish between the Japanese leader Kishida and President Yoon was really an underappreciated success, I think diplomatically, of this White House. And that might give some window into the reticence you've seen of them to come out and say something more forcefully.

Although, I think to MJ's point of what I've talked to is just stunned that this actually happened. However, this underscores the fact. This isn't just a South Korea issue, this is leaders across exactly the alliances of the United States, the critical kind of pillars of western democracy are in bad shape right now.

I mean, you think about President Trump -- president-elect Trump is about to head over to France, where Emmanuel Macron government is falling apart, and there's about to be a no confidence vote.

And I think the fact that the president-elect is taking power at a moment where he clearly feels more emboldened than he has ever felt based on the electoral results, based on what we've seen on Capitol Hill with his nominees that are not in any way healing to kind of a traditional norm in terms of what they represent.

This president-elect is coming to power, not just thinking he can do what he wants and what he said he plans to do domestically, but also internationally. And South Korea is not an insignificant piece of his kind of broader geopolitical strategy, which diverges very sharply from the norms of the United States. Now that's what he ran on. That's what he was elected on. Do your thing, man. But this is a very different moment than it was in 2017.

BASH: So, we're going to pick up on this, particularly given the fact that his nominee for defense secretary is going to be back on Capitol Hill. This is a time when Pete Hegseth is trying to win over Republican senators. Never mind the policy that Phil was talking about. The question about misconduct allegations is going to be front and center in these talks. We'll discuss after a quick break.

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BASH: Today on Capitol Hill, Pete Hegseth is heading to meetings with senators who will ultimately decide whether or not he will be the next secretary of defense. It comes as stunning new allegations from the New Yorker that Hegseth was pushed out of roles at two veterans' organizations that has emerged. And that according to a New Yorker reporter who uncovered the latest allegations. She says Hegseth's behavior was one that would have gotten him fired anywhere else.

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JANE MAYER, NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: The behavior described by the people that he worked with really was the kind of behavior that would get anybody fired in almost any office in America, just near constant allegations of drunkenness, people being blackout drunk, having to be carried to his hotel room, closing down a bar at 2:30 in the morning in Ohio, chanting, kill all Muslims, kill all Muslims.

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BASH: My panel is back. Before we dive into our discussion. I want our viewers to listen to what Jason Miller, who's a senior adviser to Donald Trump told Kasie Hunt this morning.

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JASON MILLER, TRUMP-VANCE TRANSITION SENIOR ADVISER: When it comes to Pete Hegseth, there aren't any concerns in New York, or if they're a piece that they ran, that was basically just innuendo in gossip. There was --

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It was a report from the top of the concerned veterans of America, the organization that he led, that he was later shown the door of because of allegations of financial mismanagement, in addition to some of the more personal allegations.

MILLER: But need to be clear here. Again, what I say was innuendo and gossip, it was written by disgruntled former employee. And so again, this was not some legal finding or something in the court of law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Bres, what is your sense in talking to senators as you walk the halls on the Hill about how much trouble this is in?

BRESNAHAN: I mean, he's in trouble, but I still -- it's still too early say, he won't confirm. This is another Matt Gaetz. They were just returned yesterday. The Senate just came back yesterday, following Thanksgiving recess. Senators were barraged by these questions. I mean, where you know, reporters and Hegseth was on the Hill yesterday, that you know, reporters are yelling at him, you have an alcohol problem? You have a problem with women?

The letter, The New York Times report about from his own mother saying he's an abuser of women, I mean, and -- but what I was struck with two things. One, I talked to Jack Reed, who's currently chair of the Armed Services Committee. I mean, they're -- I'm not sure he picks up any democratic votes at all, so Republicans will have to carry this.

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But you saw some of the (inaudible) Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, and some of the -- some of this Republican's senators who might oppose Hegseth. You know, they were so cautious. They, you know, they had gone through the Matt Gaetz situation already. I think some of them would like to see, you know, Hegseth withdrawn.

They don't want to go through a vote, but they're going to see how this plays out. Now, he's still only meeting with Republicans. He hasn't met with Democrats yet, so we'll stop to see how they handle.

BASH: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: That's not an insignificant kind of posture. I think right now people need to understand that for people who are saying these allegations would be the death knell for any other nominee, you're right. In any other past president-elect's transition operation, this nominee would no longer be the nominee, period end of story.

This is a different moment. Clearly, the Trump team, as Jason Miller made clear this morning, is not backing off in any way. I think there are some concerns behind the scenes, unlike what Jason was saying. However, when you talk to people up on Capitol Hill, and Bres talks more than I do.

But there is a kind of sense right now of, if he gets to a hearing, and right now he's on a pathway to do that, if they're not going to pull the nomination. all this stuff is going to come out, and he's going to be asked about all this stuff.

BASH: Oh, yeah. MATTINGLY: And he's going to be under oath. And it's going to be a painful and torturous process for him and for the Trump operation, which has a number of these types of nominations that they're dealing with right now.

And so, when senators are being cautious, but they're not weighing in, or they're not saying out loud, pull this right now. They know that's all coming. And are more than happy to let this collapse on its own, rather than try and get out in front and make themselves target for the president-elect.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, that's so true, Phil. I talked to somebody involved in the transition process this morning who said, would not be surprised if more came out about Pete Hegseth and that could potentially sink his nomination. They're just -- they're going through the motions. They're hoping that they can save it for now.

One other thing that I want to talk about, and it's inside what you just mentioned, which is somebody was screaming a question to him about whether or not he is an alcohol problem. And that is something that is part of Donald Trump's personal story. His older brother Fred passed away. His alcoholism was a big part of Donald Trump's life. He doesn't drink at all. The president-elect does not drink at all.

Listen to what Donald Trump himself said about this in 2017.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: I had a brother, Fred, great guy, best looking guy, best personality, much better than mine, but he had a problem. He had a problem with alcohol, and he would tell me, don't drink. Don't drink. He'd also add, don't smoke. But he would say it over and over and over again. And to this day, I've never had a drink, and I have no longing for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now I spoke to somebody who knows Hegseth well this morning, saying, you know, does he still drink? Is he sober? And the answer was, he now has occasionally, occasional drinks. Now I'm not saying that this is a disqualifier at all, but it just -- it puts into my mind, and I know other people who cover Donald Trump, whether or not, as he learns more about the alleged antics under the influence of alcohol, whether or not that's going to change something in Trump's mind.

LEE: Yeah. I mean, the president-elect has talked about over the years some of these vices, including drinking and alcoholism as something that he has personal experience with. That is why he himself, as you said, doesn't drink. I don't know if and how that is factoring into his own thinking.

And I will say just when we're talking about these nominees, I mean, they have the full backing of the president-elect, the Trump transition apparatus, until they don't. I mean, that's what happened with Matt Gaetz. He was so fully behind supporting Matt Gaetz really dug in, dug in and dug in until he suddenly didn't.

When he realized, and it really crystallized for him that the votes were not there, and he informed Gaetz himself, that the votes were not going to be there. We just don't know. You know you were suggesting that he -- that's not exactly where we are yet, obviously. If you don't know -- if he has, then I think nobody knows.

(CROSSTALK)

BRESNAHAN: But we have to see your point. We have to see what more come out. And what to me is like, how much did they actually know about this because what Phil was saying, no other incoming president- elect, frankly, would nominate somebody with this kind of history. So, I am telling he would know.

BASH: You should put that on the top of your profile. What you just said --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Guys, thank you. Don't go anywhere. Up next. Democrats are soul searching amid the fallout from the pardon of Hunter Biden, some lament giving up the moral high ground, but should they? We'll discuss next.

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