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NYPD: We Will Not Rest Until We Arrest The Gunman; Manhattan Underway After UnitedHealthcare CEO Was Fatally Shot; Hegseth Says He Is Not Considering Withdrawing Nomination; Today: Hegseth Holds Key Meetings With Republican Senators; Hegseth's Mother Makes Direct Appeal To Trump And Republicans. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Again, you know, if he rented the e-bike, is this something that they can, you know, trace to find out if he legitimately used his own, you know, credit card or what have you. So, they've got some things to work on here now, but they don't have a person identified. And I didn't expect him to this early on, but they do have some things to work on.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yeah. And that's why they're asking for the public's help identifying this person, fighting this person. Charles Ramsey, thank you. Thank you for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. Stay with us. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello. I am Dana Bash, and welcome to Inside Politics. We're going to continue with this breaking news on the deadly shooting of the CEO of United Healthcare. It happened in midtown Manhattan this morning. Police just wrapped up that press conference. We have lots of new details, still no motive, though.

I want to go straight to CNN correspondent Brynn Gingras, who is on the scene outside the hotel. Also want to bring in senior crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, I want to start with you. You were at that press conference. A lot of detail, and it's pretty remarkable what happened this morning right in the heart of midtown Manhattan.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. No, Dana. You're absolutely right. This is pretty remarkable. And I have to say, you know, this kind of crime, this kind of situation here in New York City, it's been quite some time since we've seen anything like this. This is an assassination.

The CEO was crossing the street at around 6:40 this morning. He was staying at a hotel. That's across the street from where this happened. And he was making his way into this investment conference for the company when someone was very clearly, according to police waiting for him. The person they say that is the shooter, arrived sometime around 6:40 this morning. It's very early in the morning. It's still dark outside, and was waiting for the CEO, Brian Thompson, as he made his way into the hotel A few minutes later, after the shooter arrives at around 6:44 am, police say that is when the shooter opened fire, striking the CEO in the head. He was -- in the leg. And then the police say, they could see on video that they've obtained that the gun actually jams. The person is firing, and then the gun malfunctions, and then the shooting stops.

But the individual is able to somehow, they say, figure out how to deal with the fact that the weapon jammed, which leads police to believe that this person has some knowledge of firearms, because he knew how to handle this firearm. They then say that this individual walks away and goes into an alleyway. They say there is a cell phone that they have recovered. We don't know if that cell phone is connected to the gunman, but they're looking into that and certainly an important clue.

The other thing here, what we have learned is that the individual and police have released photos of this, gets on a city bike. It's an E bike. It's a bike that you can simply just rent. They dock them and you can rent them. So, they have the E bike on video that he was using, and they are now trying to track that bike down.

They say that he drives -- he rides that bike for several blocks into Central Park, and they're able to piece this together through video and other images that they've obtained. And the individual goes into the park, and then that is the last time that they've been able to so far track this individual.

So, some very significant clues for them that they are working with. They have also recovered shell casings, and they've recovered some of the bullets. They say they are nine-millimeter rounds. So, they have that information, and they believe, as I said, that this person has some proficiency in weapons, just by the way that they use this weapon, and the way they dealt with the fact that the weapon, the gun jammed.

So just to reiterate, we have this person arriving there at 6:40 in the morning, waiting so early in the morning here in New York City, waiting for the CEO, and then assassinates the CEO. Fires a number of times, and then flees the scene.

So, while police have a lot to work with right now in terms of evidence that they've gathered and things that they need to -- you know, things that they need to do to try and trace this person, to track this person. And so, they're working through the streets of Manhattan right now and probably other parts of New York City, to try and track this individual's movement.

But they say they're out there. They're looking for more information. They're now offering a $10,000 reward. They have held this press conference pretty swiftly, given how limited the information is, but they wanted to put out images that they've been able to gather on this individual to try and figure out who this person is, and to also try. And obviously, get this person in custody. [12:05:00]

So, they're working with that information, but obviously, of really just frightening and really, really just scary situation here in Manhattan -- in midtown Manhattan, as this CEO was walking in to this conference, someone was waiting for him and killed him, assassinated him, police said, and they are now working to try and figure out what the motive is. They said they've spoken to family members of this individual, and obviously, their heart goes out to them as they continue to work this investigation.

BASH: Yeah. And Shimon, so many new details as you just recounted that we learned at that press conference. I just want to underscore one aspect of this that you alluded to, which is that this man is still on the loose, and -- or person, we don't know if it's a man, but this individual is still on the loose.

And as you said, law enforcement is hoping that GPS with that E bike that they got on, could help and other clues, maybe an eyewitness. But unfortunately, I have talked to you, and you have talked many times about active shooter situations. This appears to be different, and that is what the police commissioner kind of underscored at the beginning, not that this individual is not dangerous, obviously.

That is, you know, that just killed somebody in broad daylight, but that it's not -- it doesn't appear to be something that is indiscriminate and anybody in the way of this person could be the next target, definitely. So, they're looking for this person. It is obviously urgent. But it's not necessarily true that they expect this person to, you know, kind of necessarily walk into a crowd and start to shoot more.

PROKUPECZ: That's right. I mean, there's no danger. You know, they essentially come out right from the beginning and say that there's no danger to the community, because they do believe that this was a targeted attack. There's not some gunmen out there, just randomly, which sadly does happen in this country and in this city, is targeting people at random.

The other thing that they wanted to be very specific about is that tonight is the Rockefeller Christmas tree lighting, which obviously a lot of people gather not far from where this happened. I mean, you're talking about just blocks from where this happened. And they wanted to reiterate to people that there's nothing to indicate that there's any kind of a threat against the tree lighting. And if people are going to come out, they should continue to come out.

So that was the other thing that was very important for police to stress here, that this was not a random violent act. And they want people to know that as far as their -- as far as the police know this is a completely targeted attack, and people should feel safe, should continue, you know, with their business, and should if they plan to attend the tree lighting tonight, go out and enjoy the night.

But you know, given where this happened, Dana, I mean, you know this area. I mean, this is, you know, almost like the heart of Manhattan, highly trafficked area, tourists everywhere. Hilton Hotel is a big hotel for conferences, for many companies stay there. And so, this person clearly knew, given the time that this person -- the gun, the shooter here showed up. It seems that they would have known when to be there.

BASH: Yes, absolutely.

PROKUPECZ: One perhaps the CEO was walking in because it was just minutes before, Dana. So certainly, a very scary situation for those folks.

BASH: Very scary. I want you to stand by Shimon, because I want to go to the scene. That's where Brynn is. Brynn, pick up where Shimon left off on just where you are. I mean, I stayed at that hotel on various campaign trips.

You are right as Shimon said, in the heart of Manhattan. A very highly trafficked area, not just for locals, but for tourists, not that far from Rockefeller Center, where that tree lighting is going to take place later today. What is the scene like right now?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, listen, I mean, right behind me, Dana, is a crime scene. There are investigators in front of that entrance where this targeted attack happened. And as you just said, you stayed at this hotel. I actually got here, and I was like, I know this hotel so well. It is a giant hotel. It takes up about a half of an avenue in New York City, in the heart of New York City.

And I got to tell you, Dana, there's several entrances to the hotel, and this is not the main one. So, if tourists were here staying at the hotel and they needed to grab a cab. They wouldn't go to this one. They would go to the front one on Sixth Avenue and grab a cab there. So, it's very clear, again, reinforcing the fact, underscoring the fact that this person was clearly targeting this CEO of United Healthcare, Brian Thompson, because it is a side entrance to the hotel.

[12:10:00]

And, yeah, we have a lot of tourists around right now, kind of looking at us, looking at the investigation on their phones at coffee shops that we were just at, trying to figure out exactly what happened here. It's scary. I mean, even though it was a targeted attack, it happened at a time when it's rush hour. It happened at a time when tours are moving around for New York City. And it's a little bit scary.

But as you even pointed out, Dana, that is the first thing that the NYPD commissioner wanted to get across. That this is targeted, and nobody should be alarmed, and the tree lighting is still going to go on. But certainly, that is something that does still cause alarm for anybody New Yorkers or tourists who are in this area.

BASH: OK, Brynn, don't go too far. I want to bring in Andrew McCabe, who is CNN senior law enforcement analyst, former Deputy Director of the FBI. Andy, I want to ask about what we know? And as somebody who has done so many of this investigations, what we do not know, namely, first and foremost, the motive? Is it possible that law enforcement knows more than they're letting on so far? What's your sense in understanding how these things go?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think that's always possible, Dana. As you know, the law enforcement never reveals all of the details they know, because holding some of those back can be crucial to identifying people who have actual information or witnesses who really saw things, separating them out from people who are just kind of creating that. So, it's possible they have more.

However, I think at this point they are the very first stages of this, and this is the chaos moment for any investigation. They are scrambling to identify every lead they can and chase them down as quickly as possible, because there is a chance that they could catch up with this person.

He's on foot or bicycle, at least he was initially, you know, he's maybe still in the area, someplace that they could with some very quick, adept police work, which the NYPD is totally capable of. They could catch up with this guy. Every minute, every hour that goes by, the chances of that get a little bit more tenuous.

BASH: And I want to ask you about what appears to be some real knowledge of at least this gun that the suspect was using. The fact that it malfunctioned, and it was quickly fixed. What does that tell you?

MCCABE: Sure. So, we have -- it tells us a little bit about the shooter, and it's really consistent with other information we now have about him. So, first of all, we know it's a nine-millimeter weapon that we know because there were live rounds and spent shell casings recovered at the scene.

The crucial thing to me here is he waits for the individual to pass him. He then turns and fires the first shot into the target's back, and then he closes on the target. He walks up to him in an effort to finish off, to ensure -- likely, to ensure that he's killed, and that's when he fires the other two rounds.

So that alone shows you a level of training or determination if anything, to complete this murder. In the course of doing that, the gun jams, which is a very typical thing that can happen to a semi- automatic pistol, particularly if you're not holding it as rigidly as you need to, but the shooter then clears the weapon.

Police haven't told us exactly how he did that, but typically that's done by ejecting the magazine and then racking the slide, pulling the slide back and letting it go forward to clear the bullet that has kind of misfed and is now blocking the mechanism.

That is something that is trained with an extensive amount of firearms training. You learn that in a police academy. I learned it in the FBI Academy. You learn it in the military. There are certain drills that you know instinctively to do as soon as your gun jam, as soon as you sense that jam, you go into one of them is infamously called tap rack bang, because it tells you the order of things you're supposed to do.

So, the fact that he was able to clear the jam quickly tells you, at least that he's someone who is very familiar with firearms. Now, that could be from his own firearm shooting, shooting at the range, that sort of thing, but it could also be an indicator of some level of professional firearms training.

BASH: Yeah. And just we haven't said it in a while. I just want to underscore for our viewers. We're talking about the CEO of a major health insurance company who was at this location for a meeting -- for investors meeting, I believe. So, it was a known thing that he would be going to this location.

[12:15:00]

And if that combined with whatever the motive was, we don't know yet. Combined with what you just described as pretty extensive training and determination, as you said boy, there are a lot of questions. Go ahead.

MCCABE: There's one more thing that I think is key here, and that is his readiness at the right time. So, we know a couple of key things. First of all, the CEO was showing up very early, at kind of an odd time, an hour and 20 minutes before the program started. The shooter, we're told, showed up five minutes before the CEO.

So, he knew to be there five minutes before the guy came at its somewhat unpredictable time. We also know he walked across the street casually, didn't seem to be in a rush. He sets up in just the right location. He allows other people to walk by, takes no notice of them. He's comfortable remaining on the street. And then, of course, you know, he engages in shooting the target.

So that shows us possible knowledge of the exact right time to be in that place, which could suggest that he had some knowledge of when the CEO was going to leave the building. That could have been because he interacted with him on some level. Or it could have been -- maybe he knew where he was staying, and he waited in that hotel to see when the CEO maybe came downstairs and prepared to leave. So, a lot of preparation there, and a lot of very clear intent.

BASH: Or, I'm assuming, once they get him. They're going to be asking whether he was tipped off by somebody who was inside the studios. Thank you so much for breaking that down. Really important to have you -- to you and, of course, to Shimon and Brynn as well. Don't go anywhere. We're going to continue to stay on the story as developments warrant ahead.

We're going to come back here to Washington, where Pete Hegseth is meeting with key Republican senators today as his nomination to lead the Pentagon hangs in the balance. We're going to go to the Hill, after a break.

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BASH: Trump is preparing for plan B. Sources tell CNN that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is interested in becoming the next Secretary of Defense as Donald Trump's first pick, could be imploding in the wake of multiple allegations of misconduct. But Pete Hegseth is defiant as he walks around the United States Senate and the offices around the Capitol, meeting with senators.

Manu Raju, of course, is there and just got a bit of a scoop. Manu, what happened?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Pete Hegseth, as he just returned to the Capitol after being a morning meeting with Senator Roger Wicker, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, as he was walking into the Republican leader -- incoming Republican leader, John Thune's office. I asked him about, whether or not he will stay in as the President Trump -- elect Trump's choice as Secretary of Defense, and he indicated he's not going anywhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Mr. Hegseth, would you consider dropping out?

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: We also told our colleague, Haley Talbot, on the way in that he has the support and confidence of Trump at the moment. But the question is, does he have the votes? That is ultimately whether he can actually get a simple majority of Republican senators to back him in the new Senate? And there's simply no indication that he's near that at this point.

In fact, there are more than three Republicans that he could only afford to lose three Republicans any party line vote in order to get confirmed. There are more than three Republicans who have concerns, whether they actually vote. No, that's a different question.

But there are more than have concerns with him at this key time, which is why he has to resolve a lot of those concerns about his past conduct, whether he is qualified for the job, and all these allegations that have come out in the press, something that he plans to do, including this afternoon, what will be a pivotal meeting with Senator Joni Ernst.

She's someone who has pointedly not said how she would vote whether she support this nomination. But she has a meeting with him this afternoon. She is a sexual assault survivor. Someone has pushed to change the practices of sexual assault how they're dealt with in the military.

She of course -- Hegseth has been accused of sexual assault. He's denied those allegations, but she has told reporters, including just moments ago that she expects to have a quote, thorough discussion with him about all these matters.

Will that go far enough, Dana, in resolving those concerns. That could go a long way in determining how long Pete Hegseth can continue trying to fight this battle within his own party to get Republicans on his side. Because at the moment, there are enough Republicans to derail this nomination. If they choose to block him, that's going to be a question for president-elect Trump, if he decides to stand behind him.

BASH: All right, Manu. Thank you so much for all that reporting as always. Now Pete Hegseth's mother is also attempting to salvage his nomination by addressing an email she wrote to her son in 2018. It was released by the New York Times, and it said in part. "You are an abuser of women. That is the ugly truth, and I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his own power and ego."

Now here's what Penelope Hegseth said to Fox about that email earlier today.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENELOPE HEGSETH, PETE HEGSETH'S MOTHER: I wrote that in haste. I wrote that with deep emotions. I wrote that as a parent. And about two hours later, I should -- my husband tells me I should think through things a little bit more. But Pete and I are both very passionate people. I wrote that out of love.

And about two hours later, I retracted it with an apology. I want people to look at Pete, judge people, or understand him for who he is today, and to disregard the media that was seven years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, the man you wrote to in 2018 who you were really mad --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: -- reporters at the table, CNN and Bloomberg's Nia-Malika Henderson, the Boston Globe's Jackie Kucinich, and it's her birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you so much for being here. I just -- the mom of it all. This was fact. I couldn't take my eyes off. It was a fascinating interview for lots of reasons.

Not the least of which is that, obviously, it's not just like his mom joined just to say, my son's a great guy. It's because of that email that that we refer to when she said, she sent a follow up, effectively apologizing. But what she was doing was appealing to senators, but it also looked like she was appealing to Donald Trump himself. Let's listen to more of what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEGSETH: I just hope people will get to know who Pete is today, especially our dear female senators, that you would listen to him. Listen with your heart to the truth of Pete. I think Trump is a good man, and I think he's picked some good nominees, and I think the senators need to listen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Nia?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, BLOOMBERG POLITICAL & POLICY COLUMNIST: Yeah, listen. I mean, this was, as you said, a very riveting performance, right? And that's really what you can call it. She was looking directly into the camera, appealing very specifically to Trump, to the female senators who do have real issues with the real personal failings of this nominee, but also his qualifications.

One of the things that was fascinating about this is she wants people to believe that Pete isn't who he was seven years ago in the midst of this divorce. The idea that he isn't qualified, though, I think that's going to be a real sticking point as well.

Her argument, in part, was that his tenure on Fox as an anchor actually prepared him to lead the Pentagon right, this almost trillion-dollar budget. Maybe, you agree with that.

BASH: OK. As you mentioned it. Let's play that that sound bite of her making that argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEGSETH: I think being a TV News host, I think, prepares you for most things in a position like this. You're a good communicator. You have to think on your feet. You take charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK. I'm just going to factor like that. I feel like I'm qualified. I am a TV news anchor. I am not qualified to be the chairman, or excuse me, the secretary of defense.

JACKIE KUCINICH, BOSTON GLOBE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, I disagree. But I think -- but look, let's -- I mean, it's hard not to take aside some of the allegations against Pete Hegseth. But let's look at these two veterans' groups that he -- that he was the head of and got pushed out. And those are a fraction of the size of the Department of Defense.

So, I mean, I think Joni Ernst said, he's got some -- he's going to have to face some really tough questions, not only from female senators, right. There's a lot of male senators that are questioning his qualifications right now as well.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I think that's really the bottom line. This isn't just about an email that she sent seven years ago. There have been multiple reports about his behavior, be with alcohol, be it around women. So, this is happening in totality, and that is what senators are looking at, including those that she's trying to appeal to. And Senator, of course, Joni Ernst among them, who told our colleagues on the Hill that she will be having a quote, thorough discussion with him today. BASH: Yeah. Who, of course, is also a veteran. OK. Everybody standby. Coming up. The highest court in the land is diving into a landmark case for transgender rights. We're going to break down the Supreme Court consequences and what they're hearing. The arguments are hearing this morning when we come back.

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