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Inside Politics
Supreme Court Hears Major Case on Banning Trans Care for Minors; Democratic Senator Urges Biden to Trump-Proof Immigration; Trump Announces New Nominations and Appointments. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired December 04, 2024 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[12:33:55]
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR OF 'INSIDE POLITICS': Today before the supreme court, a landmark case on whether states can ban gender-affirming care for minors. It's an issue, yes, that has become political, but it is also very personal and emotional, particularly for families. Former Federal and State Prosecutor, Elie Honig, joins our conversation. Thank you. You got your tie all fixed?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: The mic fell off. I'm good though. Check, check, OK.
BASH: Oh, OK. Good. Well, hearing you is important.
(LAUGH)
BASH: Hearing you is important. Set the stage for us and explain why and how this got before the supreme court.
HONIG: Yeah. So this is based on a law passed by the State of Tennessee in 2023 that said medical providers cannot provide gender- affirming care, hormone therapy, puberty blockers for the purpose of people who want to transition. Now that law is being challenged by the Biden Administration and by certain families of transgender children. And the fundamental debate that's happening right now in the supreme court is, does this law unconstitutionally discriminate on the basis of sex? And there was a really interesting exchange that just happened that I think shows you the argument that it does discriminate. Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson was questioning the lawyer for Tennessee.
[12:35:00]
And she said, well, if a boy wanted to get hormone therapy, testosterone because he wanted to grow more, he wanted his voice to deepen, would he be allowed to? And the answer is yes. And then she said, well, would a girl be able to get testosterone because she wanted to transition? And the answer was no. And Justice Jackson's point is that is discriminating on the basis of sex.
But if you want to hear the other side, earlier we heard Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito and others questioning the solicitor general who's challenging the law on behalf of the Biden Administration. And essentially, their view is the discrimination that's happening here is age discrimination which is allowed. I mean, we -- there's all sorts of things minors can't do. And they're saying minors are not allowed to get this treatment whether they are boys or girls. Therefore, the only distinction that's being drawn is one on age which is perfectly permissible.
So that's the real sort of turning point here and I will say, if we're trying to gage where the justices are at, having listened to this argument so far this morning, I think the three liberals are clearly going to want to strike this down. I think Justices Alito, Thomas and Kavanaugh are clearly going to want to uphold the law. And then that leaves us with Roberts, Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett somewhere in the middle, though it sounds like Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett are leaning with their conservative colleagues.
BASH: And so this came up through Tennessee, as you said.
HONIG: Yeah.
BASH: But this is something that has been an issue in many states, and I just want to show what we're talking about. There are 26 states that have passed laws restricting gender-affirming care for transgender minors. Estimated 40 percent of transgender minors, ages 13 to 17 live in these states. Now, 16 states and D.C. have passed protections for trans healthcare since 2022. And you mentioned the arguments this morning. It's really been fascinating to hear how the justices have been questioning and you could see where they're leaning. Let's first listen to Justice Sotomayor.
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JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR: There are some children who actually need this treatment, isn't there?
ELIZABETH B. PRELOGAR, U.S. SOLICITOR GENERAL: Yes. I think the evidence is uniform on that, whether you look at the standard of care, whether you look at the view of every major American medical association that has taken a position.
SOTOMAYOR: Some children suffer incredibly with gender dysphoria, don't they?
PRELOGAR: Yes. It's a very serious medical condition.
SOTOMAYOR: I think some attempt suicide?
PRELOGAR: Yes. The rates of suicide are striking and it's a vulnerable population.
SOTOMAYOR: Some -- drug addiction is very high among some of these children because of their distress, correct?
PRELOGAR: It is a serious condition. Yeah.
SOTOMAYOR: One of the --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And now, let's listen to Justice Kavanaugh.
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JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH: You say there benefits from allowing these treatments, but there are also harms, right, from allowing these treatments, at least the state says so, including lost fertility, the physical and psychological effects on those who later change their mind and want to de-transition, which I don't think we can ignore. We can't ignore what you're talking about and what Justice Sotomayor raised. I agree with that. But you can't ignore, I think the risks on the other side of the balance.
How do -- how do we as a court choose which set of risks is more serious?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Nia?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, BLOOMBERG POLITICAL & POLICY COLUMNIST: Yeah. Listen, I mean, Republicans have really fixated on the 1 percent or so of folks who transition and then regret that transition. I mean, we know that this is going to be a big political fight. Donald Trump is coming into office saying that he wants this -- a ban on this care in all 50 states. He also wants Congress to pass a law that says there are only two genders, and I think we know where this supreme court will probably likely land on this, given the composition of this court, given where conservatives are, given where Republicans are, and in some ways, given where Americans are, right?
Americans are still grappling with this, what it means. We saw obviously that Trump made a big issue of this, I think probably to some great effect, for his campaign. So this is going to be an evolving issue. We saw a lot of the same discussions go on around folks who are lesbian and gay for years and years and years. Some of these same conversations regarding this identity. So I think our culture is at some point going to have to get to a place where we acknowledge that gender dysphoria is real, that transgenderism is real, and that kids often recognize this at very young ages. And what does it mean as a society to turn our backs on these folks?
JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE BOSTON GLOBE: And you're right, Nia. This isn't happening in a vacuum by any stretch of the imagination because there's debates about transgender children in sports and also the whole bathroom debate, which is now on Capitol Hill, with members being -- having to use the bathroom of their gender that they were born. And so it just -- it really is -- this is just another chapter in what is going to be -- seems to be a constant going into this new administration.
[12:40:00]
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and to that end, this decision will guide lower courts because there are ongoing cases in these courts about bathroom access, about sports. And in an incoming administration, it will not be the administration trying to strike down these laws. And so certainly, this is not only pivotal, but also quite interesting in how the lower courts (inaudible).
BASH: And just to button this real quick because we're out of time. The key here is, this is about what the law is. This is, even if a kid wants it, if their parents are OK with it, the doctor says it's appropriate, the law says no and major medical associations say that gender-affirming care is clinically appropriate for some kids.
HONIG: On the surface, this is a strict legal question of equal protection. But as we've been discussing, there's so much more at stake here. It goes so much broader. That's why this is such a historic moment in the supreme court.
BASH: Yeah, it sure is. Certainly not easy. Thank you so much.
Coming up, Trump-proofing immigration protections. I'll talk to a Democratic Senator who says that's her plan in the waning days of the Biden Administration, stay with us.
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[12:45: 40]
BASH: Almost one million migrants are in America legally through a program called Temporary Protected Status. But for many of them, that protection is set to expire during the Trump Administration. My next guest wants President Biden to try to Trump-proof that before President Biden leaves office. Democratic Senator Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada is here. Thank you so much for being here.
Now, just for our viewers to kind of understand the people that we're talking about, they'll probably remember the Haitian migrants who are in Springfield, Ohio, lies about what they ate. Putting that aside, they are part of this protected group, here in the United States legally. And so my question for you is people like that, not just TPS, temporary protected status, but also people in DACA programs. How is it that you think that President Biden can make sure that they can stay beyond his term?
SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, (D-NV): Well, first of all, it's great to see you and thank you. This is an issue that is so important, and I've been reaching out to the current administration within the two months that they have left to ask them to really take action. They legally can take action to extend TPS status to so many who are already, as you said, here, working, part of -- contributing to our economy and they are -- they qualify, legally qualify to have their TPS status extended because the countries they come from are still in horrific conditions.
And so, they qualify for this status. If the administration were to extend it, it would bring certainty to these individuals and keep some of our families together. The other thing you talked about are for our dreamers, my ask of the administration is also we need to quickly process these DACA applications. Dreamers who come to this country, this is the only country they know. They came as young children. They want to be a part of the community in a country that they grew up in. They were on the frontlines of the pandemic for us.
And so, if we can quickly process, the administration can do that, we can also make sure that we're giving certainty to some of our dreamers as well.
BASH: Yeah.
CORTEZ MASTO: So these are legal -- really, Dana, these are the -- the administration has a legal authority to do that, and I'm just asking them to utilize their authority.
BASH: So my question for you is, given the fact that both Donald Trump and J.D. Vance in particular, who of course is still the Senator from Ohio, insisted that this program itself is not legal. I remember having a back and forth with J.D. Vance about the Haitian migrants, for example, him saying that they were in America illegally and me saying, no, they're not. What makes you so sure that even if President Biden extends it, that they won't find a way to just reverse that once they get in office?
CORTEZ MASTO: Well, that's the point. Listen, we know from the previous Trump administration, they're going to engage in mass deportation. They already have done it. The individual that they are looking at a nominee as the Border Czar was already in the Trump administration engaging in interior deportation. It didn't matter whether you were in this country and married to a U.S. citizen and working and absolutely raising your family here. They were looking to deport you.
It didn't matter if you were a dreamer, they were going to deport you. So we know the chaos they're going to bring and they've already -- President Trump has already talked about what he wants to do when he gets back into office. Again, it's going to be chaos. And so, the goal for me in really reaching out to the current administration is saying, do what you can legally because the laws are there. Whether J.D. Vance believes it or not, the laws are there that allow the current administration to extend TPS status, to legally keep these individuals here are coming from horrific conditions in their country, and to really process those applications for our dreamers.
That day in court will come where we're going to have to continue to fight in the courts to protect our those -- that legal status that Congress has provided already. But, we should start that work now.
BASH: So, again, I'm -- we're almost out of time, but without Congress passing another law, which I know TPS is part of a statute that you all passed, I'm still not entirely clear how and why you think that Donald Trump won't just quickly reverse it.
[12:50:00]
CORTEZ MASTO: Well, no, I think he is going to try to legally --
BASH: I see.
CORTEZ MASTO: -- legally, he's going to be challenged to do that. So right now, for El Salvadorians, for Ecuadorians, Nicaraguans, they have -- some of them have TPS status that actually will terminate during the Trump administration. If we, because they're -- the countries that they come from still qualify for that status under our laws, the current administration can extend that TPS status even into the Trump administration and the goal is to provide whatever certainty we can, whatever laws that we have now to continue to legally protect them.
The fight's going to come. Listen, I know it, you know it. And we're going to have to fight at all levels, but let's take action now where we can to put ourselves in a better position legally to take on those challenges.
BASH: Senator, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Keep us posted if you hear back from the administration.
CORTEZ MASTO: Thank you.
BASH: And coming up, Donald Trump is making more administration picks. We're going to have details on that after a quick break.
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[12:55:30]
BASH: This morning, President-elect Trump announced a number of new administration nominations and appointments. Jared Isaacman as NASA Administrator; Adam Boehler, Envoy for Hostage Affairs; Michael Whatley as RNC Chair, again; longtime loyalist Peter Navarro, who was recently released from prison after he was convicted of contempt of Congress, would be his Senior Trade and Manufacturing Counselor; and Daniel Driscoll as Secretary of the Army.
Thank you for joining this very busy news day. "CNN News Central" starts after a break.
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