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Police Questioning Man In Connection With CEO's Killing; Kash Patel Meets With Sen. John Cornyn; Today: Hegseth Holds Pivotal Meeting With Sen. Joni Ernst; Trump Reaffirms His Support For Embattled Cabinet Picks; Today: Patel, Gabbard, Hegseth Meet With GOP Senators. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 09, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash in Washington. And we start with breaking news in the case of the murdered health insurance CEO in New York City last week. Police are now questioning a man in Pennsylvania in connection with the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.

CNN's Brynn Gingras and John Miller join me now from New York. Brynn, I'm going to start with you. What do we know?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT BASED: Yeah. So, we know right now, Dana, that there is someone that is being questioned by investigators right now in Altoona, Pennsylvania. This person is 26 years old, according to sources telling John Miller.

We've learned that they actually got a tip from someone at a nearby McDonald's in that area who said, hey, this guy looks like the person that's in all those photos that have been circulating. And that's how he was brought in for further questioning.

And in doing so, according to sources telling John that they found a lot of evidence that could point in the right investigation for authorities at this point. They found a gun that resembles the one that was used in the murder last Wednesday.

They found a suppressor, which is basically another word for a silencer. It muffles the sound of a gunshot. We know that was also used in the killing on Wednesday, and they found a number of fake IDs with this person. One of those, according to sources, the NYPD does believe was used here in New York City.

Now also, if you remember, we reported that investigators believed their person who was responsible for this killing used a fake ID to check into a hostel in the Upper West Side of Manhattan. So, it's possible that is one of those fake IDs.

We've also learned from sources that there were some sort of documents that were with this person that is again brought in for questioning at this moment, and they're still going through all of those paperwork to figure out exactly what is said in those documents.

But again, these are significant developments in this case, in this manhunt that has stretched far past New York City limits, and now we know that someone is in custody -- sorry, rather, someone is being questioned with authorities right now in Altoona, Pennsylvania.

BASH: OK. And John, let's go to you. You have so much of this excellent reporting. Add to the color and the context and the information that Brynn just started to give us.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, Dana, this starts as a very routine day in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, which has like three McDonald's. But an employee there looks at this person and has been seeing on CNN and everywhere else.

These photos from the NYPD of this masked person with the hood, where they're saying, look beyond New York, because we think the person has left the city. And she believes that this person resembles the photos that have been put out.

She calls 911, gets the Altoona. PD. They respond to the McDonald's. They engage this individual. And as they get him to identify himself and look through things, they find a gun, they find a silencer, they find multiple false IDs.

And when they begin to compare those notes with police in New York, they find out that one of those IDs matches the name, perhaps even the one we're looking at that he used a fake New Jersey driver's license to check into that hostel in upper Manhattan.

So, along with all of that, there are some documents that the police said seem to be relevant to this case. I think we would stop short right now, because we don't have enough information of calling that a manifesto, but we are told by investigators they believe he is carrying documents that may relate to motive.

BASH: OK. I understand you are saying stop short now with regard to those documents because obviously this is an ongoing investigation, as your former (inaudible) used to say, John Miller. But talk about this with regard to the decision that police made. It was on Friday that we were talking shortly after the police decided to, in your words, crowd source and put the picture of this individual out publicly. We don't know yet if this is the guy, but if it is, that tactic was the game changer.

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MILLER: Well, it was. And, I mean, it hangs on a couple of things. One, finally being able after this massive video canvas, using so many detectives to find that single moment. And you're looking at it right now, that single moment where he dropped the mask.

He still had the hood on, and you could see that face and a million- dollar smile as he was talking to that hotel clerk at the hostel and asking people, if you know this person. If you see this face, no matter where you are in the country, we're looking for that call. So that worked today.

BASH: And John, with regard to the documents and the motive, is there anything else that your sources are leaning into? We know that first of all, the bullet casing, which you talked about again last week with some etchings on them, suggesting the idea that this could be related to the united CEO's job, and the idea that it is a health insurance, which is not exactly a popular industry right now.

And then, of course, what happened over the weekend with the backpack that was found in Central Park and Monopoly money inside.

MILLER: So, the bullets had the writing on them, deny, delay, depose, theoretically, these are the three Ds that critics use against the insurance industry when they say, they're trying to slow down payments on claims and fight those with members of their customer base. So that's one the Monopoly money, you know, perhaps a sign of greed.

But when you look at what does this mean today? They have a person in custody. They're questioning that person. They have a gun. They have multiple false IDs, including one that may be relevant. So, if you take that together and then say, what does the NYPD have to bring to this. They have DNA recovered from a water bottle that the suspect bought in a Starbucks and a power bar that they recovered parts of or the wrappers of and a phone where they have a viable fingerprint.

So, that's a lot of forensic evidence that they can run against the fingerprints of the individual in custody. The DNA that they will get a search warrant to get from him if he doesn't give it voluntarily. And if, in fact, he's carrying documents that relate to this, a weapon that may be matched ballistically to the things that were recovered at the scene, including the shell casings and the bullets. This could come together very quickly, fairly quickly and very solidly in terms of evidence.

BASH: I don't want to lose sight of the most important thing that you're reporting was found on this person, which is a gun. I mean, that's a bit ball game.

MILLER: Well, that's right. And I mean, you know, we talk about the smoking gun. If this gun is ballistically matched to this crime, then the rest of the evidence, you know, will surround that. But that's going to be something that they can determine within a high degree of certainty in a relatively short time.

And I mean, one thing we're not mentioning here is, there's a citizen involved here who had the care to look at those photos, to look at that individual, to probably compare them right there. I mean, imagine someone looking at their phone, looking at that customer, and making that call, which also means that if our reporting is correct that it's a McDonald's employee, they are eligible for this $50,000 reward from the FBI and 10,000 from the NYPD.

BASH: Quite a story. Absolutely, if this just does pan out to be the actual alleged suspect. Don't go anywhere, John, stay close. I want to bring now into the conversation senior law enforce analyst Charles Ramsey and retired FBI agent Dan Brunner. Commissioner Ramsey, let me just start with you. What are your thoughts on all of this information that we've gotten so far? And what does it tell you?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, this could be a very significant. There's no question about that. I agree with everything that John said earlier. A couple things. Number one, the fact that the photograph was put out across the country, and even though the person's face was partially concealed. It was still enough there for people to kind of get a sense or a feel for what this individual might look like.

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And kudos to that employee at McDonald's, who looked at this individual and then called 911. You know, normally we don't think we're going to be the ones to solve anything as a private citizen, if you see something you say is probably not the person. But this individual acted, and it may turn out to be the absolute right thing to do.

The other thing is the recovery of a gun. Now we have forensic evidence from the scene. We have shell casings, we have DNA, we have fingerprints. All these things, if they match up, then this is the person who's responsible that's going to be charged with this particular crime. So, there's still a lot of work that has to take place, but this is a significant development, no question about it, and we'll see how it plays out.

BASH: Chief Ramsey, thank you for that. Dan Brunner, what are your thoughts?

DAN BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I agree with Chief Ramsey and with John. The one of the most important things in this investigation definitely was putting the photograph, the information out there, because you're multiplying the number of people that are looking for this individual. Clearly was on the run.

He had a step or two ahead on NYPD, and they were behind him, gathering all the evidence, but the crucial part was getting him, you know, get getting some eyes on him. And the McDonald's employee should absolutely be applauded that they made the phone call, even if they had the suspicion that an individual match the description of the suspect. That's the job of law enforcement.

In my fugitive investigations, I've had countless number of people who called in a tip that didn't turn out to be anything, but at least we had tips coming in. Eventually the right tip comes in, and we've captured fugitives at the FBI just like this. Just having someone who randomly looks across the counter and says that sort of resembles the suspect. Let me call 911. Let law enforcement handle it, and that was the right thing to do.

BASH: Yeah, wow. What a development. We're going to keep our eyes and ears on it. Thanks to you both. Thanks to John Miller. And to Brynn Gingras, just to recap what we're talking about here. Police in Altoona, Pennsylvania responded to a tip by somebody working at a McDonald's there saying that that person thought that a customer was, in fact, the suspect. The man you're looking at right there in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson last week. And now this person is being questioned as we speak. As we get more information, we of course, will bring this to you.

And we're going to -- as we continue following the breaks. In that case, we're going to turn here to Washington. Donald Trump's most provocative and embattled picks are holding critical meetings on Capitol Hill. We have brand new reaction after a break.

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BASH: Right now, on Capitol Hill, a far-right conspiracy theorist is trying to convince Senate Republicans to support him as the next FBI director. Minutes ago, Kash Patel wrapped up a one-on-one meeting with Texas Senate Republican John Cornyn. CNN's Lauren Fox is outside Cornyn's office. How did the meeting go, Lauren?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Senator John Cornyn, who is a Republican, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, that of which will oversee this nomination on Capitol Hill. He came out and said that they had a really good meeting. He also said that he sees himself voting for Kash Patel, assuming nothing else or no new information emerges that would cause him to reconsider that.

He said that part of his meeting, especially the top of the meeting, was really focused on the fact that Cornyn was emphasizing to Patel that he thought the justice department needs to return to a non- partisan agency. He said that he did ask him some serious questions on that front, and that he was satisfied with Patel's answers. I also pushed him on this.

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SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I had a good meeting with Kash Patel, the nominee for FBI director. We still don't know what Director Ray's plans are, but eventually, I assume that Mr. Patel will be confirmed as the next FBI director.

FOX: Are you comfortable that he's going to be able to stand up to Trump?

CORNYN: Well, I think that's a fair question to ask. I mean, part of it's a hard job to tell the president no, but the law is the law, and I would expect from him as I would from Pam Bondi, that they would be honest and truthful with the president when it comes to those red lines.

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FOX: Patel also met this morning with Senator Joni Ernst, so Republican from Iowa who tweeted just a few minutes ago that she too felt like Patel shared her vision that she wants to shake up these federal agencies. Patel has a series of other meetings we expect he will attend on Capitol Hill. But he is not the only person who is vying for a cabinet position, who is in Washington meeting with senators today.

We also expect that Pete Hegseth, the embattled nominee to lead the Pentagon will be back in Washington. We expect he will also be meeting again with Senator Joni Ernst, a key vote on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Dana?

BASH: She shares as -- and I just want to underscore what John Cornyn said to you. It was such a good question about whether or not he believes Kash Patel would stand up to Donald Trump. The question is, who would stand up to whom?

But that aside the fact that John Cornyn, a top Republican said, it's a fair question to ask, and the law is the law gives you a lot of insight into some of the trepidation going on even quietly among Senate Republicans. Thanks so much for that reporting, Lauren. Appreciate it.

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And the president-elect reaffirmed his support for Pete Hegseth, for Kash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard on NBC yesterday.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: It looks like Pete is doing well now. I mean, people were a little bit concerned. He's a young guy with a tremendous track record, but he loves the military, and I think people are starting to see it. I thought Kash may be difficult because he's, you know, a strong, conservative voice. And I don't know of anybody that's not singing his praises.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have confidence in Tulsi Gabbard?

TRUMP: I do. I mean, she's a very respected person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined at the table by some terrific reporters, Hans Nichols of Axios, NPR's Tamara Keith, and CNN's very own Manu Raju. Manu, thank you for letting Lauren run around after the senators for a few hours. I'm sure your feet. Thank you for it. What are you hearing from your sources at this point?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think that Kash Patel stands a decent chance of getting confirmed at the moment. This is still the very beginning, though, of the confirmation process, which can be arduous, which can trip any members up, there's going to be a background check. Something could come up. We'll see how any one of these nominees do in their confirmation hearings.

But even though Trump is taking -- breaking with norms and practice -- essentially firing the FBI director who has three years left on his term. They typically stay for 10 years. So new presidents don't bring in their own FBI director to do things to act on a political basis. Trump, of course, is forgoing that tradition and bringing in Christopher Wray.

I've talked a lot of Republicans about that, the idea of pushing out Christopher Wray, there aren't that many concerns. Many Republicans are simply saying, well, that's just the way things are, which suggests to me that they're willing to support Kash Patel, assuming nothing bad happens. Pete Hegseth still has his work to do today with Joni Ernst, but she's keeping her options open. The pressure on her is only going to build.

BASH: And the fact that they're meeting again is very telling. And I just want to read something from the Iowa attorney general. Her name is Brenna Bird. Now this isn't something that we normally go to an op ed or the column from the attorney general in Iowa, but this is very clear pressure on Joni Ernst.

This is what she said. The constitution gives senators the important responsibility for advice and consent, and that's what the confirmation hearings are for. What we're witnessing in Washington right now is a deep state attempt to undermine the will of the people. We must not let Washington kill nominations before the constitutional confirmation process even begins. A shot across the proverbial bow at the senator who is representing Iowa.

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: And it's up for reelection, right? That's what's so interesting about Joni Ernst. You can see -- you can say the same thing about Senator Cassidy down in Louisiana, Tillis in North Carolina. Those are the ones you're going to watch, because there's a threat of a primary challenge that, whether or not it's implicit or explicit, is clearly on the table.

And that's what we heard from the attorney general of the great state of Iowa. It's basically watch yourself. We're watching you, and we want to make sure you vote the way you think Trump conservatives would want you to vote. And we all know what they want. We -- which way they we want them to go, or they want to go, and that is that support the president's nominees. So pretty clear what's going on there. It's out in the open.

TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yeah. And I think that what senators have been trying to do is continue saying things like this candidate needs a full hearing. They deserve a hearing. They deserve these conversations. There is a month until those hearings are going to happen that is a long time to twist in the wind for some of these candidates.

We'll see how these conversations go. Maybe they do a whip count and all of them are fine, or maybe this mystery continues, and these senators don't have to have a profile encourage because they can quietly send the signal as they did with Matt Gaetz, that this isn't going to work.

BASH: But that's kind of where we thought it was headed for Pete Hegseth last week. And then with the pressure campaign -- in the pressure campaign that seemed to be orchestrated by the Trump team, MAGA world, if you will, particularly on the Joni Ernst and senators like that. With regard to Pete Hegseth, was and is very intense as this column suggests.

RAJU: In the hope on the Trump team is simply allow these members to keep their door open, not shut it completely, as they did say with Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz was much better known among the senators than Pete Hegseth is among the senators. So that's --

BASH: And that's a good way.

[12:25:00]

RAJU: Yeah. And like, exactly. And that's one reason why the Republicans are -- they want to know more about his world view. They've seen all the controversies. They've seen his denying all these things in the past. They want to learn more about him. So, some of them are keeping their options open. Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, of course, are always people to watch. They are meeting with Pete Hegseth this week.

I suspect after those meetings they will say the same thing. Let's see what happens in the confirmation process. And as long as they keep the door open, then Trump is going to keep trying to push him.

BASH: Let's turn to Tulsi Gabbard, the president-elect's pick for DNI, Director of National Intelligence. One of the sort of criticisms of her was that she went on her own when she was a member of Congress, without telling anybody in the intel world to meet with Bashar al- Assad, who was toppled by rebels this past weekend in a very surprised move. We're going to talk about that later.

But I want you to listen to what Gabbard told Jake Tapper back in 2017 about that trip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TULSI GABBARD (HI): The Syrian people recognize, and they know that if President Assad is overthrown, then Al-Qaeda or a group like Al-Qaeda that has been killing Christians, killing people simply because of their religion or because they won't support their terror activities. They will take charge of all of Syria. This is the reality that the people of Syria are facing on the ground. And why they are pleading with us here in the United States to stop supporting these terrorist groups, let the Syrian people themselves determine their future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: Well, it's a comp. I mean, anyone that does Syria policies have been on the Syria desk. For the last three presidents understands how complicated the mix of groups that are there, the shifting alliances. The current group that's now looking like it's in charge, obviously says they disavowed Al-Qaeda, but they are still designated as a U.S. terrorist organization. So, just taking a giant step back on what sort of Tulsi Gabbard -- former Congressman Gabbard's theory the case, and that is that she's doing her own research. And that's why I suspect that a lot of her approach to this might resonate with Republicans because they've been so distrustful of what they call the deep state, whether it's intelligence agencies all throughout.

So, yes, she may have some difficult conversations here the coming days. But what we're seeing with the Republican conference in general is they're coming into line. And I do think there's this interesting sort of distinction between Trump world, which is making a lot of pressure, and Trump himself.

And when you listen to Trump himself, he's almost a narrator in his own play. And he's doing play by play, right? It's like he's Al Michaels on Thursday night. And he's -- and he's talking about who's competing well. And forgive me, if Al Michaels is not on Thursday night, I just kind of came up with that. But he doesn't seem like he's that vested in it himself and he's just offering his commentary.

BASH: I have the same thought when we play that sound bit -- forgive me, Tamara, of him saying, well, I thought maybe Kash Patel would be the one in trouble, because he's, you know, he's Kash Patel. But you know, who knew that he would be doing well.

KEITH: Yeah. It's like he's an observer of the plight of his nominees. Well, you know, I hope they make it. You know, smart guy seems like he's doing better than I thought he would. It is a remarkable -- I would say that we may not want to say that he went out and endorsed them and pushed hard for them, because it wasn't a hard push, at least in that interview with Kristen Welker.

RAJU: I'll be interested to see how Tulsi Gabbard, whether she walks back or changes her approach, particularly on Russia and Ukraine, the past things, she said about that. If she defends what she said in light of Bashar al-Assad regime being toppled. Those are the key questions under her confirmation.

BASH: Assuming that they all do get the confirmation hearings, which it looks like they will, that will be must see TV. All right. Don't go anywhere. Coming up. We've been talking a bit about Syria, the fall of a brutal dictator. What does the stunning collapse of Assad's regime mean for the broader, tumultuous region. That's next.

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