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Today: RFK Jr. On Capitol Hill To Meet With GOP Senators; GOP Senator: RFK Told Me He Wants To "Question" Science Of Vaccines; GOP Senators Question RFK Jr. On His Pro-Abortion Rights Stance; Big Tech CEO's Travel To Mar-A-Lago To Meet With Trump; Trump: "Everybody Wants To Be My Friend"; Trump Sues Des Moines Register, Pollster Over Final Iowa Survey; Presidential Electors Meet Across U.S. To Officially Cast Votes; Biden-Trump Voters Say Border, Economy Made Them Switch. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, under the microscope. It's RFK Jr.'s turn to pound the congressional marvel as Donald Trump's pick for health secretary tries to convince key Republican senators to support his nomination, despite conflicting views on one of the most important issues to the GOP abortion.

Plus, making it official. We'll take you to state capitals across the country as presidential electors cast their votes this hour to formalize Donald Trump's victory. And another community is in mourning, after a 15-year-old girl opened fire in her Wisconsin school. I'll talk to a survivor of the school massacre in Parkland, Florida who now wants to be vice chair of the Democratic National Committee.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start on Capitol Hill, where RFK Jr. is meeting with GOP senators for a second day. And answering questions about his views on vaccine safety, views debunked by scientific studies, but he's also talking about abortion rights, an issue on which the man from a democratic Kennedy dynasty has taken polar opposite views from Republicans whose votes he needs.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. What's happened so far, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Right now, he's trying to ensure that he can get Republican support. He's been meeting with some of the Donald Trump's closest allies. And those allies have been emerging from those meetings, say that they are on board with Kennedy. Kennedy has tried to alleviate concerns about his position on abortion.

In fact, telling these Republican senators that he would be in line with Donald Trump's position on abortion. Now he's also field of questions about the issue of vaccines. One of his advisers, his attorneys have tried to push for to revoke the authorization the polio vaccine. He has told Republican senators that he does not support revoking the authorization of the polio vaccine.

And there's a question about the issue about vaccines linked to autism. That is something, of course, that has been debunked, but it's something that Kennedy has suggested publicly before, that he believes that exists.

In my conversations with senators, he has not been explicitly making that link, but he has been saying that there's a rise of autism. He wants to understand why. He's also said that he would question vaccine safety and also question the science.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): What he wants with vaccines is, which is, what I believe in, is transparency. I think we need to know exactly with all vaccines, what has been the research and, you know, do they work, and what's your risk?

RAJU: What about polio vaccine specifically?

SCOTT: We didn't talk about them.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): How is it that we're one in 34 and the rest of the world isn't facing those, and one in 22 in males, that's a real challenge. If it is connected to it, and if it's not connected to it, let's put it to rest. But question is, isn't an issue. We should question science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So far, Kennedy has not been answering reporters' questions in the hallways about a range of his views. But he is focusing on Republicans at the moment because, Dana, as you know, the math means that he needs to keep Republicans on board, meaning he cannot lose more than three Republican votes. And if he doesn't keep it to three, that will be enough to get the job as health and human services secretary.

The most significant concern we have heard so far is from Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, himself a childhood polio survivor, raising concerns about those efforts to revoke the polio authorization. Perhaps one reason why Kennedy came out and said, one thing he has been saying in the hallways, he does support the polio vaccine, perhaps to alleviate that concern from McConnell. Dana?

BASH: Yeah. Certainly, seem that way. Manu, thank you so much for that reporting. Joining me now here at the table, a superb panel of CNN, all-star reporters, CNN's David Chalian, CNN's Kristen Holmes, and CNN and Bloomberg's Nia-Malika Henderson. I have to say Bloomberg, because you do work there now too, but I will always claim you as ours first and foremost.

Let's start where Manu left out -- left off, when it comes to the Trump transition, which is RFK Jr. You heard a little bit of Markwayne Mullin, the Republican senator from Oklahoma who is one of Donald Trump's staunchest allies on Capitol Hill. He talked about vaccines there. But I want to bring in the abortion question, and what the senator said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MULLIN: His first thing is, we have too many abortions as of what he started. We have too many abortions in this world anyways. That what's the issue with that. And then a second -- his follow up on that is, I'm serving at the wheel the president United States. It's his policies that I'm pushing forward. I think that should clear up that question for anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I guess as long as you think Donald Trump's positions are clear on the issue. But yes, you know the art -- the team working with RFK Jr. through this nomination process and the Trump transition, more broadly, as I'm sure Kristen will tell you as well.

This has been the posture of how they want. They've known from the moment of him naming him, that this was going to be one of the issues again, due to the map that Manu pointed out about Republicans, that they were going to have to work through here.

And the line they've come up with, which you just heard Senator Markwayne Mullin repeat there, which Kennedy is saying in all of his meetings, is, this isn't about my personal views on this issue of abortion. This is about Donald Trump's agenda. I serve at his pleasure. I am not going to get in the way of his pursuing his policy preferences as it comes to abortion issue.

BASH: Right. And yet, he is still going to have to overcome as any nominee would, some of the concerns about things that he has said on abortion concerns by Republicans. For example, in 2023, he was talking about federal funding for abortion providers.

And he said the following, to the American conservative. Even federal funding for Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers does not give Kennedy pause. This was a quote from the article. Everybody should have access to good medical care. Kennedy said. You can't tell poor people that because they don't have the money, they have to bring a baby to term.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think this is what David is saying, which is that they're not going to necessarily get him to back track everything that he said. And these are years and years of comments that he has made and interviews on television. I mean, they know that these clips exist.

So instead, the real motive here, and what they're trying to get him to do, is to convince the Republican senators that he has no interest in touching the issue of abortion from what Donald Trump wants it to be. So, if Donald Trump has said, the issue should reside with the states that Kennedy will respect that. Because again, there is no back tracking here for Kennedy. He can't undo the years of what he has said from a pro-choice standpoint. But instead, what they'd like him to do is focus on the fact that he can say, I am here with Donald Trump, and I am doing what he wants me to do.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And listen. I mean, I think one of the things you see from RFK is he has this tremendous support in MEGA world, but he also has this mix of ideological support as well from people who are liberals, moms who are concerned about preservatives in their kids' food, some people who like raw milk, milk for instance.

And so, if you look at the nominees who are going to face a lot of questions, RFK is certainly on that list, but he's also on the list of sort of Donald Trump's favorites, right? And the people he feels like he wants to go to the mat for, he was a big star. If you think about the campaign, his decision to back Donald Trump was crucial. He was out there stumping for Donald Trump, this whole make America healthy again.

So, we'll see what happens. But I think in the end, as much as somebody like RFK, even somebody like Tulsi Gabbard, former Democrats, they likely are probably going to get support from these Republicans who say this is Donald Trump's choice.

CHALIAN: And Dana, one other thing that I think just recent political history for Donald Trump. In the last two years of this presidential campaign, when he has gotten cross wise with pro-life anti-abortion rights stalwarts inside his party, he's won out. So, his lesson here is not to give in to -- you know, I mean Mike Pence, his former vice president.

You know, after the 22 midterms, when Donald Trump sort of blamed Dobbs as a reason for losing in the messaging over -- you know, Mike Pence would come out and rail against that with the nomination of RFK Jr. Mike Pence. And again, I'm using Mike Pence as a figure that is in that wing of the party, lots of pro-life folks would come out. They would express real concern about Donald Trump and what he's doing here, and Donald Trump steam roll them politically.

BASH: I just want to stay with you for a minute, because you and I were talking. I'll give people a behind the scenes color of you and I were talking in your office yesterday after Donald Trump's press conference, about a moment that we played afterwards, which kind of sums up the moment that he is in right now. And I want to play a little bit more of that and talk to you on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: One of the big differences between the first term, the first term everybody was fighting me, in this term, everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know. My personality changed or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: That was rhetorical, his personality has not changed. And the reason I wanted to keep talking about it today is because we're seeing another example of that today, with Ted Sarandos of the -- of Netflix going down to see him. And then just kind of look at the big picture of it all Tech Titans. This is just in the tech world.

[12:10:00]

CHALIAN: So, as we know, Donald Trump is happy to take their money and help pay for his inauguration. There's no doubt that is part of this. But you say, look at the Tech Titans, and I look at that list, and I see the leaders of modern-day media just broadly.

And Donald Trump's fascination with his ability to be dominant in media space and communicating a message and garnering a ton of attention, those are the executives of companies that have the largest spotlights to shine places these days. And I don't think that's lost on Donald Trump in seeking --

BASH: No, that's such a good point, media, which is different, I think, from journalism, which we're going to talk about in a second. But you're right, that is modern media. And then just going to another list, Kristen, because you spent a lot of time down in and around Mar- a-Lago, about everybody who wants to be his friend, world leaders, in addition to the tech people we were talking about.

Of course, he was just name Time Magazine's Person of the Year. He rang the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange. He had a front row seat at the reopening of Notre Dame.

HOLMES: He is covering his best live right now.

BASH: Yeah.

HOLMES: This is the life that Donald Trump thought he was going to have in 2016 after he was elected president. And then realize that the platform that he had run on was not popular with any of these people, and he was quickly shunned by the tech industry, by a lot of media. He did not have the same welcoming that he had this time around.

When I talked to some of his advisers, and we talked about the fact that he won Time Person of the Year. He even feels like this time around was different, like he actually won it. The same way that he feels about the election, which is that he won the popular vote as well as the electoral college. And he feels like he actually won this time, and that's why people are coming to him.

But what's been so interesting talking to the people around him in this moment is just what it is that he's saying behind the scenes. Because that you just saw in that press conference is a lot of what he says to people around him, this kind of marvel and awe that all of these people want to meet with him and talk to him, and he's taking it in, and he's taking advantage of it.

BASH: And yet, not everybody has been --

HOLMES: Not everybody, no.

BASH: Like Judge Juan Merchan in New York, who said that he is not immune from sentencing in the case that he is in charge of up there, and Donald Trump took notice of that. He attacked the judge today in the last hour as deeply conflicted, corrupt, bias, incompetent. Called him a radical partisan, keeping a place in an illegal gap -- keeping in place an illegal gag order, so I cannot expose his and his family's disqualifying and illegal conflict, so on and so forth.

HENDERSON: Yeah. I mean, and this is what he's been saying for many months. Saying, that he is compromised, that he has a conflict of interest because of one of his family members. So not everything is going his way.

One thing that will be interesting to see is sort of how long the honeymoon lasts. It is certainly a honeymoon. The second time is sweeter for Donald Trump, and you see lots of things going his way. His approval rating is high. The transition ratings, which you talked about last week, are higher than they were last week.

So, we'll see what happens when he gets to Congress, when he goes through these confirmation hearings that I think are going to be fairly bruising for some of -- some of these picks and tries to muscle his agenda through a very narrow House and then a Senate that he has much wider margins on. So, you know, we'll stay tuned for the next month.

BASH: But he's all -- I mean, that's one example, maybe a more severe example of the way that he is trying to set the table and set the stakes for those who are not going down, or for those he wants to, as I said yesterday, you know, throw a shot across the bow, perhaps make a chilling effect for those of us who are reporters.

He officially launched a lawsuit, filed a lawsuit against the Des Moines Register and its pollster Ann Selzer last night because of its poll in October, which showed Harris winning the state of Iowa, which, of course, didn't happen.

And I'm just wondering what you make of that given the obvious attempt at what he's trying to do? And whether or not -- anyway, whether or not he's going to have success, because people like us are -- you know, we understand what it is that he's trying to do. But just even the notion that he's trying this hard with the litigious way that he is.

[12:15:00]

CHALIAN: I mean, first of all, being litigious is not new to Donald Trump.

BASH: No, that's no ways is the way.

CHALIAN: This is the story of his life long before he got into politics. So, this is a continuation of that personality trade. The chilling effect is, no doubt the gold here that I don't think he's actually trying to win this lawsuit. Also, I mean, find me a pollster in America, including Donald Trump's pollsters, who don't come back with a bad poll once in a while. It's like, what makes all the good polls valid is that you sometimes come out of the field with a bad poll. So, this is a particularly egregious example, but this is also classic Donald Trump.

BASH: Yeah. OK. Everybody standby, because coming up. We have democracy in action. Today, as we speak, president electors are meeting in states across the country to officially elect a president. Standby.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I called a voice vote for president of the United States, Kamala Harris.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will officially cast all six electoral votes for Donald J. Trump and J.D. Vance for president and vice president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: This is going on all across the country today. American democracy in action. Once again, presidential electors are meeting to officially cast their ballots for president and vice president. Largely ceremonial meetings will formalize each state's 2024 election results where Donald Trump won 312 electoral votes. Kamala Harris won 226 those votes then come here to Washington, where they will officially be tallied on January 6 and approved by Congress.

Now today is very different than this kind of day. Four years ago, when then President Trump and his supporters were baselessly challenging the election results. Some Trump allies submitted themselves as alternate electors, fake electors to try unsuccessfully, to change the result of the 2020 election. Many of them were later indicted. This time, the losing party, the Democrats, is acknowledging, they lost and promising a smooth transition.

My panel is back here.

CHALIAN: Some of those fake electors last time are really.

BASH: I -- why do you said that 13, I think, are actually real electors, which, you know, that's nice. Let's just kind of look as we're monitoring what's happening in the states -- at the seven states that we spent the entire election year focused on, which are the ones that -- I mean they all matter, because they have to get to that to finalize all of these results all over the country.

But let's look at the seven, the swing state margins. Let's start with Arizona. Donald Trump won big. There we go. Donald Trump won big over 5 percent, five and a half percent. Georgia 2.2, Michigan 1.4, Nevada pretty healthy, 3.1, North Carolina the same, Pennsylvania 1.8, and Wisconsin the smallest margin. It was a clean sweep though.

CHALIAN: It was a clean sweep. There's no doubt about that. I say often, you know, elections can be both close and decisive at the same time. His victory was decisive. But as you just saw there, it was also close, less so in the Sun Belt, as we were reporting at the time.

Then in that so called former blue wall pieces of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, which is where this election came down to and 200,000 plus votes the other way, and that could have flipped. That doesn't take a thing away from Donald Trump's decisive victory, sweeping all seven states.

And as Kristen alluded to earlier, also winning the national popular vote, just adding to the decisive nature of his victory.

You mentioned the electoral college totals. One thing to watch for. I'm just curious today, as you see the tally going up on the side, will those totals look like that when all these votes are recordable. There be some faithless elector that votes for somebody else and screws up our math as we have to record the history of this -- well, we shall see.

I love seeing this process. I think it's great. I love that it's different than four years ago. We see in polling also Republicans now are much more likely to say, they think the election results were legitimate. Donald Trump fondly and often says, it's because his victory was too big to rig this time.

I hope that this will be an enduring thing going forward, and that the Republican Party doesn't -- should it lose an election going forward, revert back to denying election results. I think it is good and healthy for democracy, for everyone to be on board, to accept legitimate election results as legitimate.

BASH: And I just want to underscore what you just said. What you're looking at to the right of me is Donald Trump 72, Harris 50. Those are the certification -- the votes that have been certified so far, and they're going to be doing it throughout the day all across the country.

HOLMES: Yeah. And I just want to point out, you know, it's not just this process that is completely different. I mean, we think we all had the same feeling when Donald Trump came down to Washington last month, and met with Joe Biden, and it was a completely different experience than what we saw four years ago.

[12:25:00]

Joe Biden Democrats giving him the opportunity and really the grace of a smooth transition, and the way that Donald Trump never did. And I -- you know, I look at your point about Republicans hopefully in the future, not claiming that the election is fraudulent. But the real leader behind all of that in 2020 was Donald Trump. And so, the idea is that he's not going to run again. He's done after this, at least legally. So, at this point, he's done after this.

But it seems as though we've potentially turned the page because of that, because of the fact that he won't be up again and because of the fact that this election was handled by Democrats this way. But obviously, love to wait and see.

BASH: Do you want?

HENDERSON: You know, it's also just a reminder of how powerful the big lie was, right? It really took hold, beginning with some of these processes, beginning even before the election is as Donald Trump started to sow doubts about 2020, even before it happened. It's a good thing the Democrats acted in the way that they did, and it is -- ideally that this isn't a permanent fixture of the Republican Party to deny elections.

BASH: I want to play a bit of sound, some bites from Biden-Trump voters. People who voted for Biden in 2020, voted for Trump this year in 2024. This is from the Focus Group Podcast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does tend to get people pretty angry and pretty worked up, but on the other side of that coin is he is who he is, he's not fake.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the only reason why I voted for Trump, yeah, border and law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that he's a -- I think he's crazy. I think he lies. I think he's just a horrible human being. But like, I have to admit, like as much as I hate Donald Trump, when he was in office, I saw more on my paycheck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: There you go. Want to understand the election. There it is, the economy, inflation, border, crime. That is the stuff that brought some people who had been resistant to Donald Trump and don't really like Donald Trump and don't have a lot of faith in Donald Trump's personality, or things like that, or is not part of that sensibility that everything Trump does is great. Those things, you just heard it out of the voters' mouth. That is what allowed them to cast their ballot for Trump this time.

BASH: All right, everybody standby. Coming up. 83, 83 school shootings in 2024 alone. That is a horrifying number. And it's one of the reasons a survivor of the Parkland massacre wants to help lead the DNC. David Hogg is my guest after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)