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Federal Murder Charges Against Luigi Mangione Unsealed; Soon: Luigi Mangione Arriving In NY For Arraignment; Luigi Mangione Arrives In New York To Face Murder Charges; Plan B: House GOP Scrambles For Plan To Keep Govt. Open; Musk And Trump Torpedo Bipartisan Short-Term Spending Bill; Dems Mock Trump, Joke About "President Musk" Calling The Shots. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 19, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I Dana Bash in Washington. And we are following breaking news. Federal charges against the man accused of murdering the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. They were just unsealed, and as Luigi Mangione is moments away from arriving back in New York.

That is where we find our senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz, who is not only waiting for him, but has been looking through the unsealed document. Shimon?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN ENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, Dana, four new charges against Luigi Mangione. This is way more serious, certainly now. Now we have a federal case and the state case. The federal case charging him with two counts of stalking murder. And there is also a firearms charge that, of course, for the 3D gun that he allegedly used here and along with the silencer.

The FBI will be taking Luigi Mangione into custody this morning, once he lands here in New York City. They will then process him. And then at some point, he will be here behind me at the federal courthouse to face the charges. This is really, really significant. This has been kind of a whirlwind of a morning.

We were expecting him in state court on those murder charges and the terrorism charges. But now this morning, suddenly, the FBI coming in, the Department of Justice, the U.S. Attorney's Office, filing these charges. As the NYPD was bringing Luigi Mangione back to New York City, they used their own plane to pick him up in Pennsylvania and to bring him here to New York City, and then he will be transferred into the FBI custody.

Significantly, also, I want to say that in this new complaint that the U.S. Attorney's Office just released. There is new information. New information about the notes that we have been hearing that Luigi Mangione wrote himself allegedly. In the notes, what the U.S. Attorney's Office says, and the FBI is that, it is marked August 15 and that the notebook describes how, quote, the details are finally coming together.

And that allegedly, Luigi Mangione writes in this notebook. I'm glad, in a way, that I've procrastinated because it allowed me to learn more about company one. They don't name the company in this case. And they say the notebook entry also stated that, quote, the target is insurance because, quote, it checks every box.

There is more information from other notes that Luigi Mangione allegedly made in this notebook coming from October 22 and it stated, one and a half months. The investor conference is a true windfall. And most importantly, the message becomes self-evident, it says. And then it goes on to say that the notebook describes an intent, to quote, whack the CEO of one of the insurance companies at its investors conference.

And then the Department of Justice says, as described above, October 22 was approximately six weeks before the date of the murder of the victim, which occurred on the date of company one's investor conference. So, some new information here, it goes to the level of planning the weeks that Luigi Mangione allegedly planned that he had waited to do this.

There are also some new pictures that the Department of Justice is releasing in this complaint. So, there is new information, and we will probably learn even more when the court appearance happens later here in the day. And as you know, sort of, as this case has been, you know, things just suddenly happen. And certainly, this is all new here information for today.

BASH: I mean, it is really remarkable. As you were telling our viewers, I have the complaint here as well. And as you were just noting, of course, giving the most chilling parts of the news that we are learning as part of this, the fact that it was so cold blooded, so calculated, so detailed. Wow. Shimon, don't go anywhere because I know you are waiting there for this suspect to actually get there as he is making way to New York from Pennsylvania.

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I want to now go to CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, as well as legal analyst Elliot Williams. John, I want to start with you. And part of what the Shimon was talking about with this notebook really clearly writes the motive, and said that, he expressed hostility toward the health insurance industry and wealthy executives in particular.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the notebook was actually referenced in the three-page letter that Mangione was allegedly found carrying where he talked about the claim of responsibility. But he said, you'll find the planning and the to-do lists and the other elements in the spiral notebook, which they make reference to in this federal complaint.

But it is based on the federal anti-stalking laws and the use of interstate commerce, you know, so that they can show he traveled across state lines with the intent to commit these felonies, allegedly that he used interstate commerce in terms of research, telephones, emails and so on to facilitate this crime. And that all of this was used in furtherance of that murder.

So, what you have now is two distinct cases, and interestingly, a little law enforcement role reversal here, where the state authorities are charging terrorism, offering a potential life sentence without parole, and federal authorities, which would usually be the lead on terrorism, charging stalking and weapons possession, either way, federal supremacy takes hold here, where they were able to writ him out of the Pennsylvania jail into their custody.

But the bulk of this investigation is done by NYPD detectives. From the beginning, they're going to team up with people from the FBI Violent Crimes Task Force in New York City, which is a combination of FBI agents and New York City detectives. And it will really be between the prosecutors to figure out which case goes first, which case follows, or if a plea deal is reached, which will dispose of both cases with a single plea, but that's all down the road.

BASH: Yeah,

MILLER: Right now, he's on his way with the FBI and the NYPD to be placed in federal custody and to be brought before a federal magistrate to be told these charges

BASH: And Elliot, as John was just saying, count one, stalking, travel in interstate commerce. Two, use of interstate facilities. Three, murder through the use of a firearm. And four, the final count on federal charges, a firearms offense.

We just heard John say that the federal charges are takes, you know, take precedent. They are top and they take the lead. It's not just about the charges and the two different cases now that he is going to be facing. It's about what the potential sentencing is on the federal side, it's very different, very.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. Very different, and it all depends on what exactly He's charged with, unlike in the state of New York, under federal law, Dana a first degree murder charge can be death penalty eligible. Now again, that all depends on how and exactly what they're charging.

As a general matter sentencing at the federal level tends to be higher. You can just get higher penalties for committing a federal offense. But just to step back a little bit to explain the difference, the difference between these two things, most homicides, but also most crimes generally, are charged at the state level, where someone intends to do something and does something to another person.

If you notice, John used the term a few times in interstate commerce, a few times when he was talking/ And that's often, what kicks things up to being a federal charge? Here you have potentially crossing state lines and using cell phones and emails or whatever else, and those are the kinds of factors that tend to kick something up to being a federal crime. Now, also here you have potentially lying in wait, waiting for someone in the furtherance of this act of stalking that can also kick us up to being a federal crime.

But, to clarify one more thing, this whole idea of federal supremacy, it's not just an agreement between the states and the federal government. The constitution, in effect says that federal -- when there's a conflict in laws, the federal government is the one that wins out, and often, when there are charges at the state level and at the federal level, those federal ones will take precedence or supremacy, or go first, and that's sort of why -- part of why we're seeing him going into federal court right now.

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BASH: OK. And as you were talking, we did see, and I believe you're looking at, well, we'll see eventually the plane landing in New York. I believe we have Brynn Gingras, who is live in downtown Manhattan. Brynn, you are waiting for Mangione to make his way from the airport that he had landed in to downtown Manhattan. There you go. There you see the video of the plane landing. Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDING: Yeah, Dana. I can't see what you're seeing, but that's exactly right. We are waiting for that plane to land in New York. And then from there, Mangione is going to be brought on to an NYPD helicopter.

I'm told, the ride from there to where I am right now in lower Manhattan is about 30 to 40 minutes by helicopter. And that's where we are right now. We're waiting at the heliport in lower Manhattan. I can tell you here on the scene, we see FBI officials. We see NYPD officials. We see officials with the JTTF. There's a bunch of dark black SUVs.

Unclear if, when that helicopter lands. If they'll drive out an SUV onto the sort of tar mask, so to speak, or if he'll make actually this little-long walk to the actual vans that are here to be brought to 500-pearl where he is going to face those federal charges that were just on seal. So, we do expect him within the hour to be here in Manhattan. Dana?

BASH: OK. Brynn, thank you so much for that reporting. We are watching the plane. John Miller, as we wait for Mangione to exit the plane. Talk a little bit about this moment for law enforcement, particularly as now obviously the feds, the FBI and the NYPD are working together, since there are -- these two simultaneous cases that we were just discussing.

MILLER: Well, this is an important moment in the case. As you see, they are now boarding the aircraft that has carried Mangione from Pennsylvania, that is a New York City police department aircraft, which is regularly used to scan for radiation along the coastline, often assist with surveillance operations in terrorism cases, for the counter terrorism bureau and the Intelligence Bureau, and is used on occasion for prison or transport, which is what we are seeing today.

This is. And its pm the occasion for case that really took every single resource of the NYPD from the moment those shots were fired until the moment detectives understood this was not a happenstance. This was a planned hit. This was an organized shooting, and now we are continuing to wait for Mangione to get off the plane.

But from the movement, shots were fired until the moment detectives. This one is the homicide with the Manhattan homicide squad. But that also means hundreds of detectives conducted video Canvas canvasses for witnesses, and found from store to store, bank to bank, building to building, NYPD cameras, and here comes Mangione, coming down the stairs now in his orange jump suit from the Department of Corrections of Pennsylvania, and he is being walked by NYPD detectives who traveled to Pennsylvania overnight to pick him up at that hearing,

He will be brought to the NYPD helicopter. There are two of them on the ground. He'll be going into the larger of the two, where he will be taken to where Brynn Gingras is at the Wall Street heliport. As you said, this is a 40, 45-minute flight. And from there, he will be placed into the custody of the FBI and NYPD Task Force officers assigned to that FBI squad and be brought to 500-pearl speed in Manhattan, which is the federal courthouse where we will not see him.

He will be taken in through a garage entrance into an elevator that takes him and the vehicle he's in and everybody else in it down to a lower level. And then he will be processed and brought before a magistrate, unless they make the decision to go to the FBI offices and go through a booking procedure. They could do that either way. And Brynn Gingras.

BASH: And John, as we watch this, I'm struck by the spectacle of it all. There are ways to get anybody from point A to point B without several perp walks, which is probably by the end of this long trip. We will see, especially given the intent that is detailed even more in this federal complaint that he had to make a point and to kill this particular individual to make a point about the health insurance industry, and again, wealthy executives in particular.

[12:15:00]

Talk about the choice that law enforcement again both-state now and federal, that they're making to continue to play into the spectacle that he clearly intended with this coldblooded murder allegedly.

MILLER: Well, I believe, based on his actions or his alleged actions, that his intent was to commit this crime and to get away with it. I don't believe that this is necessarily the spectacle he had in mind, although ironically, Dana, his manifesto begins with, you know, the words -- it's actually addressed to the feds. It says to the feds.

And then the next line is about how he respects the work they do for our country. So, the letter anticipates that he might have been called, but remember, at the time, he was still in this disguise, he was far away, and it really begged the question, was he going to continue to seek other targets because he still had that weapon with him, or was he done

BASH: And then just real quick. In addition to or separate from the intent, obviously, law enforcement is very well aware of the way that this is playing. And that there is this this macabre support for him, in a way that I don't think that we have seen in modern times for a cold-blooded killing that he allegedly committed. Given that, how did the decision of what we're seeing right now get made?

MILLER: I think the decision on what we're seeing right now, which was how to transport him, stems directly from that because he's not just become a suspect in a murder. He has become a cause celebre for an entire sect of the population who is frustrated with healthcare, with insurance, with medical costs. And given that, it also makes him some kind of a security risk in a different way.

So, the controlling features of not going on a multi hour road trip in a car where other cars could have followed or tagged along, moving him through the airplane, to the helicopter, very much, by the way, consistent with how they transported terrorists and other prior cases that were charged as terrorism.

This looks very much like the day that they brought back Najibullah Zazi to face charges of a bomb plot in New York, but this time, it's not international terrorism. It's a brand-new form of what authorities are charging as a new kind of domestic terrorism, which has made him both a criminal suspect and a populist figure online.

BASH: All right, John, and Elliot, and Brynn, we're going to continue to monitor this as this helicopter takes flight, takes the suspect into downtown Manhattan. While we do, we are going to come back here to Washington and look at a huge story here, which Donald -- is Donald Trump doing what he does best, injecting chaos into the Capitol even before he takes office. And the question now is, can congress prevent the Christmas shutdown. We're going to talk about that after a quick break.

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BASH: Now to Capitol Hill, where Republicans are scrambling to avert a government shutdown in less than 36 hours. It's all because the president-elect and the richest man in the world decided to torpedo a bipartisan spending package.

CNN's Lauren Fox is tracking all of the fallout on the Hill. Lauren, any strategy that is emerging from any corner of that building to try to stop the shutdown?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Dana, this is an incredibly fluid situation right now. Republicans are huddling trying to have some discussions around what precisely could get enough votes in their conference to get over the finish line. But it's worth reminding everyone that, typically, you are going to need Democratic votes to put through any kind of spending bill, and especially one that might increase the debt limit.

So right now, one of the key questions is, what are Democrats going to do? They huddled earlier this morning. And they've been pretty resolute in their view that they already negotiated an agreement. They released that agreement just two nights ago, and now they are in a position where they want to stick with the agreement that they struck.

I mean, these things don't happen in a matter of hours, Dana. These kinds of negotiations take weeks and sometimes even months. This hard- fought negotiation was released on Tuesday night, and Democrats are arguing that is what they want to stick with.

If Republicans want to have a conversation about increasing the country's debt limit, then they need to do that as a separate negotiation, not tack it on to something that was already fully fleshed out. So, Democrats digging in right now, Republicans not clear on what their plan B is going to be.

[12:25:00]

Because, again, there's a very limited majority in the House Republican conference. And Mike Johnson has very little wiggle room, and he has a lot of frustrated members, people who might have been satisfied with this deal that was established on Tuesday night. You know, they are also working through the stages of grief right now.

BASH: That's well said. Lauren, thank you so much. Raise your hand if you see any white smoke anywhere. Appreciate it. I want to bring in an all-star panel of CNN reporters, Phil Mattingly, Kristen Holmes, Nia- Malika Henderson, also of Bloomberg, and Gloria Borger.

Gloria, I gosh, where to start with this.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN'S SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: What a mess.

BASH: You know, it was on this program this time yesterday that we had just seen the Elon Musk tweet, X, whatever you want to call it, basically saying, don't vote for this. And then it was just a few hours later that Trump and Ben said, oh yeah, what he said? And then --

BORGER: As you said, it would be criminal. Yeah.

BASH: Well, OK, so let's -- well, criminal, and also, this is something I wanted to put up. This is one of the Truth Social quotes from Donald Trump late yesterday after Elon Musk started this about not voting for this. Anything else is a betrayal of our country. Anything else is a betrayal of our country. There you see it.

So, I just want to remind an underscore for our viewers. When he is talking about a betrayal of our country, he is talking about a very -- as Lauren pointed out -- pointed out delicate deal that was struck by his ally. The speaker of the House, a fellow Republican, suggesting that what he wants to do. Is it betrayal?

BORGER: Well, and don't forget, what's in this bill, disaster relief for those people who are victims of the hurricane, aid to farmers, for example. You know there are things in this that people need and are going to depend upon. So, to call it a betrayal to the country is absolutely absurd. And you know, my question is, which came first the chicken or the egg? Who came first? Elon Musk or Donald Trump? Who is the president-elect here? Elon Musk or Donald Trump?

BASH: Well, let's look at some people who were going on Elon Musk's very own platform asking that same question, Democrats. President- elect Elon Musk and former President Donald Trump want to shut down the government. Pramila Jayapal, it's clear who is in charge. It's not Trump. Shadow president Elon Musk spent all day railing against Republican CR succeed in killing the bill.

Bernie Sanders saying that we've spent much, months negotiating this bipartisan agreement. The richest man on earth, President Elon Musk, doesn't like it. Will Republicans kiss his ring? The answer is, yes. As we're talking the actual president-elect Donald Trump is working the phones. He's been talking to some of our brethren, saying a couple of things.

One is, if the government shuts down, it's Biden's fault. I don't know if that's going to sell. And also, this is a thing we haven't talked about, the debt ceiling. A big part of what Donald Trump is saying now is in order for any Republican to support this, it must increase the debt ceiling.

And that is one of the many things that is anathema to many people in the House Republican conference. They just don't vote for any increase in the debt ceiling. Therefore, any time that happens, you have to have Democratic votes. The Democrats are not playing ball right now.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN'S CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And I think it's important to do a couple things, step back and say, look, if Republicans have the majority in the House, if Mike Johnson could get all of his members on board for anything, then they could pass it, including whatever Donald Trump wants or whatever Elon Musk wants to Donald Trump falls behind him once as well. They've got the majority.

The problem with that, of course, is they would still need 60 votes in the Senate, but they can't even get it over to the Senate right now because of things like that. Also, to Gloria -- Lauren's point, there are a lot of pieces within this deal that Republicans worked on as well. The farm aid is extraordinarily important. The disaster relief is extraordinary important.

There's a lot of components in here that no one's talking about that were pet projects for Republicans. And I don't mean that a pejorative way that they were able to get in and let ride on this yearend deal that they cared deeply about.

I think the piece of this is that people need to recognize is like, welcome, welcome to what this is at this moment in time. And I understand that this is a very democratic message right now with president-elect Elon Musk. And I think that they are a team right now, and there's an inside game and an outside game, and this is going to be the reality going forward.

Now, throwing a debt ceiling into a baked negotiation, a baked agreement, essentially nukes it, based on what we all know, having covered dozens upon dozens of these deals and standoff over the course of the last couple years. But we also have never seen an Elon Musk with his platform, with his push, with his support, within the conference before.