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Inside Politics
Trump Wraps Up Speech To Global Leaders In Davos; Trump: Companies Who Manufacture Aboard Will Face Tariffs; Fact-Checking Trump's Economic Claims; Trump Warns Tariffs On China Are Coming As Soon As Feb 1; Tariffs On China Could Raise Prices On TVs, Cellphones, Laptops; Trump On Monday: I Will End "Weaponization" Of Justice Department. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired January 23, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash in Washington. And you just saw Donald Trump take virtual center stage at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. It was his first major speech to global business and political leaders since taking office just a few days ago.
It really was the first time, as 47th president, he addressed the number one issue for most Americans, the economy beyond the top line promises. We saw on day one of his presidency, including the inauguration. Some of the key issues, of course, are lowering inflation and how he is going to deal with job issues.
CNN is covering this story from all angles. Richard Quest is on the ground in Davos, Jeff Zeleny is at the White House, Daniel Dale is, of course, our fact checker. I want to start first with you, Richard, you are there. You cover these issues in and out. What was your biggest takeaway?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR & INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: First of all, good luck, Daniel, as you try, and fact check that lot. I am absolutely exhausted having listened to all of that. It was a potpourri of great hits, but if we actually sift it down to policy announcements that we learned from today.
Number one, he's calling on OPEC to lower the price of oil via the Saudis. He wants them to lower the price of oil, but at the same time, he wants the Saudis, who've already pledged to spend 500 billion to raise that to $1 trillion. He says he's now hoping that the Crown Prince MBS will invest $1 trillion in the United States.
He's going to now call upon NATO to increase the defense spending to 5 percent. Now he talked about this during the election. But today, as I listened to the president, he said, I am calling on NATO to increase the defense spending to five percent once barely, you know, it was a hard job to get them to the old target. This is going to be very difficult.
And the big E, in my view. The big E on the economy. He has warned European production, European companies, European countries, manufacture in the United States. And if these were the president's words, it's your prerogative not to, but if you choose not to, we will tariff. In other words, the threat, the gauntlet has now been thrown down. You manufacture domestically, or we'll tariff the product. And he still seems to think that that won't cost American consumers more.
BASH: Those are such important top lines, as you said, particularly that last one, given the fact that we haven't heard a whole lot about tariffs since the specifics beyond the campaign and then again, what he, of course, mentioned during his inaugural address.
I want to ask about the scene there, Richard, since you're not only there now, you have been going to this for many, many years. This is the club that Donald Trump, the private citizen, has always wanted to be a part of, of the biggest economic titans in the world on the planet.
Now he's the president of the United States again. He was there on the ground the first time he was president. Now he is engaging with them. What's the difference in what you're hearing from the CEOs and other world leaders now versus the way that they approached him, and they thought about him four years ago.
QUEST: Excellent, excellent point, because I was here all those years ago, and he was fated. He walked round. It was like Emperor arriving. The difference this time, for -- the last time, eight years ago, four years ago, they knew he said what he was wanted to do, but there was a huge gap between policy and delivery. This time there's no to gap.
We've already seen in the last four days. So, people here know that he's going to do something of what he says. Now, to those people who love what he's saying, they want him to go as fast as possible. To those who are horrified, for example, the social welfare, the social policy people, they are assuaging themselves by saying, look at what he does, not what he says.
Last night, I spoke to Ngozi, who is the head of the World Trade Organization. Now, the mere talk of tariffs is like sort of hell and high water for her. She says, just chill. Let's wait and see what he actually does. My own view after listening to him today is, everyone's been put on notice. I'm going to do what I say, get ready.
[12:05:00]
BASH: Yeah. Well, on other issues that he campaigned on, so far as you mentioned, over the past four days, he certainly started to do that. Richard, thank you so much. I want to now go to Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, I want to play for our viewers a little bit of what the president said about what he considers his message for the audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My message to every business in the world is very simple, come make your product in America, and we will give you among the lowest taxes of any nation on earth. We are bringing them down very substantially, even from the original Trump tax cuts. But if you don't make your product in America, which is your prerogative, then very simply, you will have to pay a tariff, differing amounts, but a tariff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: This is precisely what Richard was talking about there. Now I wanted our viewers to hear it for themselves. You, Jeff, were with Donald Trump when he went to Davos, physically went there, not virtually like today. That was six years ago. What's your takeaway from what you heard?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, there's no doubt that the message is largely similar, in terms of America is open for business. But what is different, I think, is just the confidence in which he speaks and the delight he takes in rattling the cages of a global leaders from the business sector to global government leaders.
I mean, I think saying that, you know, again, urging and calling on a NATO to spend 5 percent of their GDP on defense, that is something he has said before, but never as president. But I think what we also saw there was something that we are going to be measuring this presidency by, that is the degree to how much he looks forward and how much he looks backward. And there was definitely a mix of that in this.
He started the speech, talking again about to President Biden, and still trying to cling to President Biden as a foil, still trying to sort of use the metric of that last administration as a way to propel this one. Well, soon -- I mean, this is Donald Trump's government now, so we will see how long that lasts.
But also raising the point of taxes. We've seen a flurry of executive actions. Donald Trump's presidency is going to be measured on his legislative successes and lowering taxes as he was talking about the business taxes, the corporate taxes is going to take Congress to work together.
So, I think that is something we are still waiting to see the president, sort of, to see if he can sort of corral Republicans there with very slim majorities into doing this. But also, I think on Ukraine, certainly interesting there. But he said he wants to meet or have a meeting with the Vladimir Putin very soon.
And we know that his first world leader phone call was at the Saudi Crown Prince. Of course, that was his first foreign trip back when he first became president. So, look for that connection as well. But I think just the degree to which he spoke with confidence. And as you said, Dana, he revels being in front of this audience. No question about it.
BASH: Yeah. No question indeed. Thank you so much. And Daniel, Richard said that you have your work cut out for you, so I will see do the floor. I want to start with that explanation of how tariffs work.
DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. This is how the president habitually describes how tariff work -- tariffs work. He warns foreign countries they'll have to pay them. In fact, it is U.S. importers, not those foreign exporters who pay the tariffs. And we know from study after study and from just our experience, living in the world that those importers often pass on the increased cost caused by the tariff to U.S. consumers. So, it is Americans who are paying, not the foreign companies.
Dana, there were also a bunch of additional inaccuracies, exaggerations, misstatements on the subject of trade. He said, it's not fair that we have a 200 billion or 250 billion trade deficit with Canada. Well, good news, it is not 200 billion or 250 billion. It's actually about 41 billion in goods and services. It's about 72 billion, even if you only count goods.
And it's important to note that deficit is overwhelmingly caused by the fact that the U.S. imports a large quantity of cheap Canadian heavy crude oil that helps keeps Americans gas prices down. So, that's why there is that smaller deficit.
He also said the E.U. essentially doesn't take U.S. farm products. He said this over and over again. In fact, the E.U., Dana, is the U.S. is fourth biggest export market for agricultural products, taking about $12 billion worth per year.
He complained that Joe Biden let the trade deficit with China get out of hand. In fact, the record trade deficit with China was actually set under the first presidency of Donald Trump in 2018, it's come down under Joe Biden. And he again referred to an electric vehicle mandate, saying that he's determined to let Americans buy whatever car they want.
[12:10:00]
This is, I think, at least an exaggeration. It is true that Biden imposed strict new tail pipe rules that aim to push automakers towards making electric vehicles, depending on how automakers respond. Those rules could require them to make up to two thirds of new cars sold in the U.S. be electric by 2032. But there has never been a Biden rule, requiring any individual consumer to buy any individual kind of car.
And then finally, he repeated his claim that he said, I think under Biden we had probably the highest inflation in U.S. history. Yes, it was high, about a 40 year high at one point in 2022, never close to the all-time record of more than 20 percent decades past.
BASH: Daniel, you were armed with so many facts, and you're -- it's so important to have you at all times. But when you say something like, we know this, because we live in the world that is about the most perfect chef's kiss thing to say. Daniel, thank you very, very much. Appreciate it.
I have a group of very talented reporters here at the table, Astead Herndon with the New York Times, CNN's Phil Mattingly and CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. Phil Mattingly, your takeaways.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: I think the things that really stood out to me were top line. We know what the president wants to do. He's telegraphed not just his first term, but also throughout the time on his campaign trail. We've learned anything over the course of the first 72 hours, Priscilla knows this better than anyone. Being our immigration expert, he's doing what he said he was going to do.
So, when it comes to economics, when it comes to kind of how he wants the U.S. to be on the global stage when it comes to economics, he's telling big businesses in foreign countries. You put your companies here, I'll give you the lowest tax rate. I can possibly negotiate with Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill. If you don't, that's totally up to you, but you're going to get tariffs, and you're going to get tariffs across everything.
And if you want to know how jittery, uncertain, and tea leaf reading the markets are right now. I had a trader for a fun, a lot of money, fun, sorry, not trader, fund manager for a lot of money, who texted me during that speech.
And he was keyed on when Trump said that in the prerogative to do business wherever you want, but you're going to get tariffs. He said differing amounts, just two words in the middle of the types of tariffs that he would impose.
The fund manager wanted to know. Does that mean that it's not going to be a universal baseline tariff? Does that mean that it's not going to be 15 percent or 20 percent? That's where they're at right now, trying to figure out if this is a negotiating strategy, if they have a one singular number, or if it's going to vacillate depending on the --
BASH: And I think part of it is, he doesn't know -- the president doesn't know the answer to that yet. And part of it is tactical.
MATTINGLY: Yep.
BASH: Right? You were going to say something about it.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was going to say, fundamentally, it is that he views geopolitics in a very transactional way. That's what this really was, as he was talking about investments, and what happens if you don't invest. And that, in and of itself, I think, is how he is approaching this term.
Of course, how that unfolds and what the details are, are important, but it gives us that clear view. Now that he's off the campaign trail and installed as president, as to how he's going to have and navigate these relationships.
ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I mean, if there was anyone who thought that Trump was not being serious on the campaign trail, right? This week is a reminder. I think back in that first term, there was the thought about, you take him what, figuratively, not literally. I think we know now that he means it. And I think that's the message he was delivering the folks.
I think it doubles a couple things stood out to me, to the transactional nature that we're talking about, which is partly how some of these leaders are responding to him. You have Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan this week, say that, OK, maybe tariffs are a little inflationary. Oh, I might get ahead of you?
BASH: No, no, no, I'm glad you said that. I'm so glad. I'm sorry to interrupt you. But can we play that some question because I want our viewers to hear it and let's talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE DIMON, JPMORGAN CHASE CEO: People argue is inflationary and non- inflationary. I would put in perspective. If it's a little inflationary, but it's good for national security, so be it and get over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: As you were saying?
HERNDON: Exactly. I mean, I think this is someone who's been a frequent critic of Donald Trump, or someone who may run for office in the future. I think it signals the level at which some of these leaders are responding to the president coming in.
I think the Bank of America CEO said, he thinks these policies will be good for business, in the same way that he's signaling to some of these leaders. I am being serious in the carrot (Ph) and stick is there. They are responding back and trying to butter him up, as we know he can.
MATTINGLY: Trump literally slapped Brian Moynihan around live on stage, well, virtually. But Moynihan was on stage about allegations that Bank of America had banked conservatives. And Moynihan said nothing. Did not even respond. Said, I've got a friend who thanks you for the bringing the world cup to the U.S., and that was it and moved on.
Just one quick thing to Astead's point. Scott Bessent actually put the tariff issue quite well during his congressional testimony, which is, there are two normal reasons to use tariffs, which is remedy on fair practices or to raise revenue. Trump has a third, and that's transactional negotiating strategy.
I think that's what diamond is getting at. That's where CEOs see this as we can shape the field, the playing field going forward. If we're in the ball game and that's what they're trying to do right now.
BASH: There's just one, we have to take a break. But there is just one thing I want to make sure to say, which is, we've talked a lot about the executive orders that he has put out. One of them was on inflation. But he said, I signed an executive order directing every member of my cabinet to Marshall. All powers at their disposal to defeat inflation and reduce the cost of daily life. That's a directive, that's a promise. He doesn't have a magic wand, and he can't do that with an executive order.
[12:15:00]
So, we're going to wait to see if any of these discussions that he had with the leaders on the world stage today, and what we will see with taxes and so forth going forward, will actually help accomplish this. But I just want to note that that is one of the things that he can't do just by saying it.
OK, stand by. It was just three days ago that President Trump promised not to politicize the Justice Department. It didn't last very long. We'll explain what we mean after a short break.
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[12:20:00]
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BASH: In his inaugural address on Monday, President Trump claimed, he wanted to take the politics out of the Justice Department.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The scales of justice will be rebalanced the vicious, violent and unfair weaponization of the Justice Department and our government will end. Never again will the immense power of the state be weaponized to persecute political opponents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That was then last night in an interview with Sean Hannity, he sounded different.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I went through four years of hell by this scum that we had to deal with. I went through four years of hell. I spent millions of dollars in legal fees, and I won, but I did it the hard way. It's really hard to say that they shouldn't have to go through it also, it is very hard to say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: So, before we talk, in addition to his vow for retribution, we should just say that the hell that he went through were criminal proceedings about what prosecutors said that they had evidence for they never got to follow through on it, for keeping classified information and trying to overturn the free and fair elections.
So just with that on the table. I do want to talk about kind of this, this back and forth. And it wasn't only the promise on Monday and then that sort of change in course, or the clarifying, I should say. That when he says, I'm not going to weaponize the Justice Department, what I really mean is, I'm going to protect my people and I'm going to make sure that I'm going to have retribution against those who went after me.
HERNDON: Yeah. I mean, in the MAGA version of events, there is really no difference between equaling the scales and retribution. They feel as if the scales have been tipped so far against Donald Trump, that retribution is justice. And I think for a lot of folks who don't kind of live in that world, they think it kind of just starts, just with those prosecutions.
You know, Russia-gates been kind of memory hold. But for them, it starts really back there, where they feel as if the Justice Department has been targeting Donald Trump. We know that's not all based in reality. There were legitimate evidence to these allegations, as you mentioned, but Donald Trump promised this on the trail, and this is again part of his following through on those promises.
You know, one of the moments I most remember of last year is being outside of the D.C. jail with those January 6 folks who have been locked up from there, they were holding vigils there every night. And it was a weekend that Trump had been shot at Adam Butler. And there was a recognition from then, that all they had to do if Donald Trump won, that they would all get released, that they would all be pardoned.
I mean, it was such a language and a motivation of the kind of Trump ecosystem for the last year and a half. I think at this point, folks expected it to happen. I actually don't even think the backlash might be that big. I think it was kind of built in the cost of him winning.
BASH: And it's -- yes, you're right. And I want to talk about the people who he pardoned and whose sentences were commuted in one second. On the whole notion of the weaponization of government. This is so core and fundamental because, yes, it was part of his campaign message. It is part of the ethos of the people who live in that ecosystem, if you will. But now that he is back in government, he's not just saying it. He actually is trying to use the divisions of government and the people who work there to help him with his cause.
One of the executive orders, the weaponization executive order. Sets forth a process to ensure accountability for the previous administration's weaponization of the federal government, identify any instances where a department or agency's conduct appears to have been contrary to the purposes and policies of this order, and prepare a report to be submitted to the president. I mean, talk about a witch hunt?
MATTINGLY: I'm so glad you brought up that executive order --
BASH: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: -- because I will tell you a story about my inauguration day. And it wasn't just about Ohio state's ability to win the national championship. We were obviously all going through all of these as they were rolling out. And on any inauguration day when executive orders come out from any president, some of them are just going to be kind of messaging, PR, not have any teeth to them whatsoever.
And when I saw the title the weaponization of government, I assumed that was going to be the case, and then I started reading the language. And when you tie that language into personnel that are willing to deliver exactly what you're asking for, which is what he will have, it takes on a very different tenor. [12:25:00]
And I think, you know, we had this debate a lot over the -- during the campaign, does he mean retribution, or he's, their retribution? He actually wants revenge. And his campaigns were like, he doesn't actually want revenge, but we all knew he wanted revenge.
That executive order, if you read the language and its intelligence agencies, it's the Justice Department, it's the FTC, it's the SEC. Those reports after, I think it's 30 days of the time window, will be sent back to the White House. And at the very least, that's a name and shame type of experience where that will be sent out.
BASH: I mean there's another word for it -- there's another word for it. And I -- we are staying as dispassionate as, you know, we are giving the facts. But the fact is that what he is asking for has some echoes of an era that a lot of that most people in the United States say was totally misguided, and that is the McCarthy era.
I know it's not clear whether this is going to result, I mean, hopefully not in something like that, but he is specifically ordering federal workers to find people who they don't believe were and are loyal to Donald Trump, but also were involved in some of the efforts they believed, to figure out what criminal liability Donald Trump and the people around him might have had.
ALVAREZ: We're just getting rid of them entirely. I mean, only hours after he was sworn in, I was hearing from my sources about, four leaders at the Justice Department's immigration office who were removed from their post and it was stunning to their current and former colleagues, because they were career public servants. So, it was odd that they would be removed that quickly or removed at all. And that was happening quietly behind the scenes very shortly after the president was sworn in.
So, it wasn't just about going for the big headlines with January 6 and the weaponization that you referring to. It's also quietly making these changes that are going to have a massive impact because those leaders were overseeing the immigration courts, and it is immigration judges who decide, who stay and who is deported.
BASH: And just real quick. I want to say, it is normal for the political appointees to turn over. That's the way it works, Democrat, Republican, that's not what we're talking about.
HERNDON: It's not what we're talking about. And I think back to last year, I think there was a little bit of a failure of imagination on the electorate part. Even Trump voters I talked to, they say he just wouldn't do this type of stuff, right? Like, he would tell them all, you know, he's promising to reshape and kind of weaponize the Justice Department to install loyalistic posts and things.
And folks would just say, oh, well, you know, we heard some of those scares last time. I don't think it's that serious, and I think that that's a big difference between last time and this time. As you've seen, the kind of top levels of Trump become more serious and more planned, more targeted about these things, whereas the electorate becomes more disbelieving that they're even possible.
And so, I think that's going to be a thing that's going to be important to watch over this year, is, do we see a public reaction to some of this stuff? Because the muted public response to Trump's inauguration also gives them fair leeway to do more and more of these things. There was big uproar when stuff like this was even talked about for -- when he was in the office last time. That's not the case involved (Ph).
BASH: He was honest about it, real quick.
MATTINGLY: Just real quick. A level of preparation, bureaucratic competence and discipline, none of this stuff leaked. We have general ideas of it. None of it leaked ahead of time that would have been worlds away from what we saw in 2017.
BASH: They have been working on it. He has been promising it, and they are trying to deliver on it and doing it very quickly. OK. Coming up, I'm going to talk to a Senate Democrat, asking Republicans for a seat at the table as they take on a centerpiece of the Trump agenda, that's next.
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