Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Firings Sweep Through Government Amid Legal Challenges; Trump Administration Sending Mixed Messages On Ukraine. Trump Proves Strong Grip on Party, How Long Will It Last?; Tough Midterm Senate Map Grows Tricker for Democrats; Conspiracies Swirl as Trump Moves to Declassify JFK Docs. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired February 16, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:01]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Is this -- is this going to go well with my outfit or should I buy this tile for my bathroom? I'll be seeking out advice.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Which is sometimes what's on our laptops. Honestly, let's just be real. Sometimes I look over and she was like, this jacket?

WALKER: No, I would never -- I would never do that.

BLACKWELL: But no, you will certainly be missed.

WALKER: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And thank you for these two years together.

WALKER: Thank you for these two years together and for your friendship.

And thank you finally, for sharing this morning with us.

INSIDE POLITICS WITH MANU RAJU starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Move fast, break stuff.

The Trump tidal wave upends American life, bringing sweeping cuts with unintended consequences.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to make our government smaller, more efficient, more effective.

RAJU: As Trump suggests he's above the law. Could it backfire with voters?

And America first?

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Washington, there is a new sheriff in town.

RAJU: A stark message overseas sparks panic for America's friends.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: The most influential member of NATO seems to be Putin.

RAJU: Is the art of the deal, reshuffling the world order?

Plus, Senate shake up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have decided not to run for reelection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will therefore not seek reelection.

RAJU: Could retirements make or break Democrats' path back to power?

And my new reporting on the lawmaker with new questions on an age old case.

INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): Good morning. And welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.

It's a move fast and break things type of presidency. That's become clear after another week of watching Trump's impact ripple through the federal government and American society at a rather unprecedented speed.

Now, today, Trump heads to the Daytona 500 a week after attending the Super Bowl, all as thousands of federal employees are now fired from the agencies that Elon Musk's DOGE has targeted, with even more still expected as soon as tomorrow.

Now, the courts have halted at least some of the president's attempts to dramatically reshape the government, questioning whether Trump is violating not only norms and procedures, but also federal law.

But for Trump, he laid out a much different view just yesterday, with some rather stunning words, saying, quote, he who saves his country does not violate any law.

So there is a lot to unpack this week, and my excellent panel is here to break it all down with me, for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno- Youngs, Laura Barron-Lopez from "The PBS NewsHour", and "Semafor's" David Weigel.

Good morning to you all.

DAVID WEIGEL, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Good morning. RAJU: Let's start there with Trump's post. You know, you could sort

of dismiss it as something that he posts. He posts all the time on social media.

But then the White House reposted that post. Trump pinned it to the top of his Truth Social page. And this comes at a time where they are pushing an extraordinarily expansive view of executive power. What do you make of him saying that yesterday? He who saves his country does not violate any law?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: In a way, it summarized, I think the view of many around the president and this approach, which, as you know, we knew we had reporting on unitary executive theory, the idea that this administration and the top people around the president do not believe that the Constitution basically or basically interpret the Constitution as basically saying that Congress should not stipulate these limits on the executive branch of government.

And throughout the past couple of weeks of Trump being in office, both through the series of executive orders that we've seen, the effort to dismantle cabinet agencies, that federal agencies and pushing the limits, the statutory limits in the effort to dismantle those agencies, putting federal employees on leave, reshaping the whole federal apparatus in an effort to really remake federal bureaucracy in his image. We have seen a clear disregard for the checks and balances set up in the federal government.

RAJU: And typically, you know, when you make these kind of decisions, you make consult with White House counsel. There's a process. There's no process here. They're going ahead and doing it and seeing where the consequences end up.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, there's no process here. And also sometimes, at least, the president seems to claim that he may not know some of what Elon Musk is doing, that Elon Musk is moving at such a rapid pace that he's not aware of who's being fired or who's not being fired, or whether or not they might be violating the impoundment act when they're freezing money.

I mean, you know, a statement like that is pretty stunning because it essentially just makes very clear what we have already heard from a lot of Trump's advisers who work for him now in the White House, which is that if this White House and this president believes just they believe that a certain law is unconstitutional, then they're okay with defying that law because they think in the end that this president will be proven right, if those court battles head to the Supreme Court because they're looking at the Supreme Court as a much more favorable to them than it ever has been.

[08:05:09]

And that they want to pick these battles, they want to draw those court challenges because they want to see all of these things eventually head to the Supreme Court in the hopes that maybe they don't win all of the cases. But at least at the very end of this, they've significantly expanded presidential power in a way that we have never seen.

RAJU: And they could chip away at it. Speaking of those court challenges, there have been so many some of them have been successful so far. The Trump team did win the issue about trying to buy out federal employees. That was that case was allowed to proceed last week.

But there are a bunch of other cases that have been seen. Their efforts paused, at least at the moment. The efforts to dismantle USAID, DOGE's access to Education Department data. Also, the restraining order is extended. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the mass firings that they tried to impose. There has been at the moment prevented, and you're seeing the rest, funding freezes. There's questions about whether those money is actually going out.

And there actually could be the first Supreme Court challenge. Just yesterday, a federal appeals court ruled in Washington that allowed the head of a government ethics watchdog agency to stay in the job despite Trump firing that individual.

David, you wrote about this in -- for "Semafor" in the headline, the quote, "Resistance is working" is the headline.

WEIGEL: It is temporarily. There was a plan. Democrats came up with not before the election, but they wanted to win the election. But their plan B afterward was to stand up hundreds of attorneys.

There are 400 people in this democracy forward coalition doing this. Every finding plaintiffs, every chance they get, suing to stop and slow down the implementation of this. And it's -- it's given at the moment, a couple of defeats to the Trump White House.

It's also clarified what the fight is between. It is the fight between a really generational conservative movement that has spent 50, 70 years thinking about getting rid of some of these new deal institutions, these precedents. You go back to the 1930s and before FDR can make his mark on the Supreme Court, that version of what the government should do versus a Democratic Party and a Democratic legal apparatus that believes in government, working a party of attorneys, a party of think tanks, a party of people getting those degrees from Georgetown and GW and going to work for the federal government.

The goal is breaking that, so it cant be rebuilt even if there's a Democratic president in three years and change, they would come in to a new world where people don't think, if I get a job at USAID, I'm going to have a career there where they think, no, they're the executive branch. The president can change that and wipe it out. It will take months to work through the courts. In the moment it is working. We don't know which of these are going to succeed.

RAJU: And we know from our reporting that DOGE visited the IRS this past week. So what are you hearing about? What's next for -- for a lot of federal workers want to know is there are there is there agency going to be targeted next? What are you hearing from your sources?

KANNO-YOUNGS: All they need to do I mean just listen to also President Trump because he's been broadcasting this from the Oval Office --

RAJU: True.

KANNO-YOUNGS: -- at times with Elon Musk next to him. And he did indicate that he wanted the Pentagon to be looked at by DOGE. I think it's also worth noting that when we talk about the Defense Department, the questions of conflict of interest as well come up for Elon Musk, given that his companies also have contracts with the Defense Department.

So that's going to be something to watch moving forward. Of course, I believe Trump said that he would be the one responsible for overseeing and checking to ensure if there's any conflict of interest there.

RAJU: I'm not sure its not going through Elon Musk's assets.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right, right.

RAJU: Looking at what he's looking.

BARRON-LOPEZ: He's being left to police himself, which I think many ethics lawyers will tell you is not necessarily good for potentially catching conflicts of interest. It's not just the Defense Department. A wide range of agencies have ongoing investigations into Elon Musk and his companies, who multiple have contracts with the government.

But I was just -- to what comes next, Manu? I was just texting with some federal workers yesterday because they said that they were told over the weekend that more firings are coming next week, specifically at agencies like FEMA. You can expect the Education Department.

I mean, this is across the board, and the impact is going to be substantial.

RAJU: Yeah.

BARRON-LOPEZ; There's a lot of concern about just the ability for people to get health care -- health care, for the ability for people to get just basic services because of the number of federal workers that are being axed.

And I think what some, some of Americans don't realize is that about 80 percent of the federal workforce lives and works outside of the DMV D.C. -- of D.C. They don't live here.

RAJU: They live all over the country. It's such a good point.

And the question is about the unintended consequences. I mean, we really don't know the full impact of this will probably be felt for months. There was a story from Friday about how Trump officials fired nuclear staff, not realizing they oversee the country's weapons stockpile.

Could that be you know, Laura was talking about FEMA. You know, Trump has said he wants to dismantle FEMA, want to send it back to the states. What happens if there's a natural disaster? WEIGEL: Yeah, that's the way this could backfire if there are cuts

and the cuts are related back to something that Donald Trump and Elon Musk did.

[08:10:01]

Musk has had this somewhat blase approach to this, that if some -- if they -- if they make a mistake, if they fire the wrong people, if they get rid of the wrong regulation, they can restore it. Easier said than done long process, but that is -- that is not how -- how the Silicon Valley folks think.

But also, when we talk about across the board cuts, Trump had this line this week that maybe if we got some sort of accord with China and Russia, we could cut our defense budget in half. That's not really how Silicon Valley and defense contractors see what's happening.

They see a lot of security for the Elon Musk version of things, $18 billion over the years in contracts for SpaceX, et cetera. Palantir is having a pretty good time. There's not much worry that tax cuts aren't going to happen, or the defense cuts that really impact contractors are going to happen. A lot of confidence that the money instead, there will be a consensus that -- that's what your tax dollars go for, your tax dollars go for protecting the protecting the homeland, whether its private prisons, or whatever sort of spending protects American lives versus protects some lives overseas with USAID, very confident in making that argument, even if they make some mistakes and get embarrassed for a new cycle or two on the way.

RAJU: Meantime, Trump is, of course, inserting himself into all areas of public life. He was on with the Super Bowl. First time we ever saw a president at a Super Bowl last week. Today, he's going to go to the Daytona 500. And this is from a story from "The Wall Street Journal", saying the reality show is expected to continue Sunday, when Trump is slated to attend the Daytona 500 and likely drive the presidential limousine known as The Beast for a lap around the track.

KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, you're white right now, you're seeing both when it comes to policy reshaping the federal government, but also just optics. He's trying to put sort of the Trump stamp on all aspects of.

RAJU: Whether it's culture, sports, society.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Dictating how private companies should be going through their hiring practices.

RAJU: Becoming the chairman of the Kennedy Center.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Maybe even indicating that he would revoke funding from schools depending on their policies for the transgender community as well. So you're seeing the Kennedy Center. My colleagues reporting also maybe overhauling the Rose Garden, too, trying to impact all aspects of society, including New York City, which we've seen this week as well when it comes to their mayor.

RAJU: Yeah. BARRON-LOPEZ: No, I mean, I think that were seeing a very different

approach than the first time around, and its much more shock and awe, brute force, take over every aspect, not assimilating, not working with establishment Republicans, essentially saying, this is what the president wants to do, whether we -- whether people think it's unconstitutional, whether people think it maybe break some laws, they're just disregarding all of Congress's power of the purse and also just checks and balances that Congress offers with. You know, breaking the law that we have to notify Congress for 30 days when were going to make all of these firings, including inspectors general. They just didn't do that.

So, across the board, you're seeing a brute force takeover.

KANNO-YOUNGS: That's an important note to make, too, because something like that gets lost when you're flooding the zone with all of these executive orders, all of these policies, and a scene like going to Daytona, too, right, something like that could be missed as well.

RAJU: So there's -- there's no question about it. There's so much to keep up with which, you know, we try to do here, but our viewers as well. A lot to keep up with.

All right. Trump-Putin phone call. European allies scolded and foreign relations forever changed. What does the world order look like under Trump 2.0? We've got expert analysis on the ground for the Munich Security Conference, and that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:50]

RAJU: In just days, top Trump administration officials are set to meet with senior Russian officials in Saudi Arabia to begin talks aimed at ending the war in Ukraine. But a Ukrainian official told CNN this morning that they were, quote, not informed about the talks.

This comes as Trump is striking a much different tone with Vladimir Putin than his predecessors, as well as much of Europe. With a rosy assessment of the Russian president claiming he wants peace despite his country's invasion of Ukraine three years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I believe that President Putin, when I spoke to him yesterday, I mean, I know him very well. Yeah, I think he wants peace.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.

VANCE: The threat that I worry the most about, vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia. It's not China. It's not any other external actor. And what I worry about is the threat from within.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right. Joining me now from the Munich Security Conference is CNN's political and national security analyst, David Sanger.

David, good morning to you. Thanks for joining me.

We know top Trump officials, Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff are heading to Saudi Arabia in the coming days to meet with senior Russian officials.

So what is the significance of the fact that the Ukrainians were not even informed of these talks? And what does it mean, do you think, for these peace negotiations?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, great to be with you, Manu. This is just the end of the Munich Security Conference which has usually been the place where all of the allies have come together in the past three years to unify against the Russian invasion. This year, that all splintered apart, as you seem to suggest from all of this, not because people oppose the idea of peace negotiations. In fact, they want to have peace negotiations. But how you hold them is -- is important.

And we saw two big developments. The first is the Europeans were told they're not going to be at the table, but they're probably the ones who are going to be asked to provide the peacekeepers and enforce this.

[08:20:01]

And of course, this has to do with the biggest war in Europe since the end of World War II in 1945. So they're angry and separated from the Trump administration. And then the Ukrainians have said, we won't agree to any kind of accord if we are not part of negotiating it. It is, after all, about their fate, their country, their borders, what lands in the end they may have to give up.

And so they have been separated out from the Trump administration. So we knew this would be a collision. We didn't think it would be such a train wreck.

RAJU: And, David, you mentioned the European officials, what are they hearing? What are they saying about what they are hearing from Trump, J.D. Vance and Pete Hegseth?

SANGER: Well, what they're saying they're hearing is contradictory sounds. So Mr. Hegseth was first, he was not here in Munich, but he was elsewhere in Germany, and then he was in Brussels. And he basically said, as you heard in that clip, that Ukraine will not join NATO anytime in our lifetimes and that they will be giving up territory that they can't hold the lines that existed between Ukraine and Russia prior to the invasion of Crimea in 2014, and then, of course, the bigger invasion of the rest of Ukraine in 2022.

That isn't particularly news. But by announcing that upfront, the Europeans were concerned that the United States was giving away two of Putin's biggest asks before they even sat at the negotiating table. And that's exactly what he was doing. He was then forced to backpedal. There were contradictory lines from J.D. Vance, who was here, the vice president.

And then Mr. Vance gave that speech in which he said, the issue for you isn't Russia. It's not China. It's suppressing the voices of the right wing groups that have been banned from being part of the government.

RAJU: David, if you could just take a step back about Trump's overall worldview, given the way that we have seen his handling of Ukraine. We talk about we can talk about Gaza. He's there talking about asserting that the U.S. will take control of it. What does that tell you about so far about Trump sees the U.S. role in the world.

SANGER: So, you know, when we first heard about America first and you first saw it play out in the in Trumps first term, there were a lot of people that said, well, it's isolationist. It means building walls and hiding behind them. That's not really what Trump made in America or America first means.

What it means is that Mr. Trump believes that this is the moment for the United States to get out and claim territory, Greenland, control of the Panama Canal. He says he wants to actually own Gaza under authorities. Nobody can quite figure out.

And he wants to work out the rest of the world's borders directly with another superpower, and in this case, Russia. That's great for Vladimir Putin, who's been isolated for three years. He, too, would like not to go deal with the Ukrainians, but directly with another superpower. So that's the vision that that Trump has brought out.

RAJU: It's fascinating.

All right. David Sanger in Munich, really grateful for your expertise. Thank you so much for your reporting as well.

My panel is back with me in the room.

I want you all to listen before we weigh in about how Trump has approached this. Listen to what President Zelenskyy of Ukraine said in Munich just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY: A few days ago, President Trump told me about his conversation with Putin. Not once did he mention that America needs Europe at the table. That says a lot. The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: That is pretty remarkable from Zelenskyy. He obviously needs the United States and but he sees a change in the U.S. posture. The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had. WEIGEL: Yes. And Republicans had argued Donald Trump ran on that. And

he didn't give a lot of clarity about what his plan for peace in Ukraine would be. But it certainly rejected the advice of people who said, if you don't stop Ukraine, restore the land taken before 1922 -- or, sorry, 2022, that the next target would be Lithuania, Latvia. That's not how they view it.

There are two overlapping goals when you hear this administration. Vance in particular talk about Europe, it is one pulling America out of these commitments, and even if that means Ukraine giving up the territory. But it's also looking at Europe as a cautionary tale. When he talks about the enemy within to American conservatives with this mindset that is Europe made these mistakes where it is disvalued its culture, it's let in too many immigrants.

[08:25:09]

It doesn't have free speech values. It never did, but it doesn't have them in part in Germany, because they're trying to suppress the way people talk about -- about hate speech. And so that is a direct attack on the last 70 years Europe has worked.

But that's what Trump believes and what Vance believes.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yeah, I think that -- there's two things, which is that its kind of ironic that on one hand, this administration, which ran on essentially saying were going to be America first, were not going to get involved in foreign wars. But at the same time, Vice President Vance floated the idea of troops in Ukraine. President Trump has talked about troops in Gaza, talked about taking over Greenland. That's directly against what a number of especially young male voters I talked to said that they wanted from -- from Trump when they voted for him. There's that.

Then there's also what you were talking about, Dave, which is that J.D. Vance, the vice president, as well as Elon Musk and by extension, president Trump himself, are throwing their support behind what is viewed as a far right extremist party in Germany, a party that is seen as, you know, an extension of Nazism from the 1930s.

And they're essentially just throwing their weight behind this party, saying that they support it, that you shouldn't be focused on the past, despite the fact that that flies in the face and goes against everything that Germany has done since World War Two, essentially saying that, you know, never again, and they change their laws to make sure that something like fascism and Nazism could not happen again in their country. And they're seeing America take the opposite stance of that.

RAJU: And Trump is saying, you reported about this, Ukraine will not be sidelined in the peace talks with Russia. So they say Ukraine will be part of this. But initially, at the outset, maybe not.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yeah. He came out and said that after his call with Putin, saying that Ukraine would be -- would be a part of the negotiations. He also said that he would continue aid, but then he's aid to Ukraine. But then he said as long as it's secured.

And then we had a sign of that transactional approach, right, saying, well, I want this, these critical earth minerals as well. Zelenskyy just turned down that initial proposal, too. It's, you know, words like isolationist imperialists. Really, Trump's worldview is what are we getting from all of these nations? You know, you want aid. You want assistance. What are we getting from these nations?

And in the process, there's a certain disregard for the traditional rules that are governed. When U.S. is dealing with allies or adversaries in that way, in his attempt to redraw most of the world map at times, or often, he's leaving out those that are impacted the most by the redrawing of those lines, both with the case of the Ukrainians who have now been, uh, you know, who, based off of that call with Putin and the ending of the diplomatic isolation of Putin, have been pushed out, but also in the case of the Gazans, where Trump is saying that he's wanted to forcibly displaced Palestinians in order to remake it in a sort of half baked plan, saying that with a Jordanian king at the White House who obviously does not want that plan, but not a lot of talk of how this would actually impact and help thousands of Palestinians.

RAJU: Half baked and seemed like something just floated, then dug in and continued to talk about it. And we'll see if they continue to drive their foreign policy.

All right. Great discussion, but a lot more coming up next. Trump's grip on his party is stronger than ever, but are warning signs emerging over his early actions and as his agenda begins to take shape in Congress?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:59]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We expect all Republicans to vote, to stay tough and strong. Vote for President Trump's nominee so we can get to work and continue to work very hard to implement this president's agenda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: So far, President Trump has gotten what he wants. His party has fallen in line, getting through his most controversial cabinet picks. But just how much political capital has Trump used and will it cost him as things are about to get much dicier on Capitol Hill and the House and Senate GOP are on a collision course trying to usher through his agenda.

My panel is back.

You know, so obviously we know Trump is the dominant force within his party. It's been very clear. But how long do you think that he can maintain this grip as people are starting to feel the effects of all these executive actions, the funding freezes and the like, and as the agenda takes shape?

Does the White House expect everybody to know when to speak out against what he's doing on the GOP side?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, PBS NEWSHOUR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think they -- yes, they don't expect them to speak out. But you're right. I mean, the longer that these potential funding freezes go on, the more that different parts of the country, especially in red states, feel the impact of cutting the federal workforce, feel the impact of programs that they're used to working on a timely basis, not working as well anymore. Then you're going to see potentially those Republican lawmakers feel pressure.

I mean, if they feel pressure from their constituents, then obviously that trickles up to the White House. Now, whether or not there are enough of them to get what they want in these negotiations is another question.

I mean, time and time again, we've seen where President Trump has essentially beaten back Republicans, even when they are pressured by their constituents.

So --

[08:34:43]

RAJU: And I talked to a lot of senators this past week about the freezes, about concerns. There have been reports of farmers not getting aid. There have been reports about other constituents being impacted. And the phone lines are burning up on Capitol Hill.

So how are the Republicans reacting to those concerns?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Are you concerned about the fact that a lot of these funds are still frozen?

SENATOR SHELLEY MOORE-CAPITO (R-WV): -- lot of question about it, but I keep telling everybody calm down. The uncertainty, I think, is difficult, especially small businesses and school systems, arts, councils.

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): It's a temporary freeze trying to find out where the money is going, the money going to farmers is well used. And after what -- 90 days, that'll all be released.

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Those payments will get there on time.

RAJU: Are you hearing those concerns from your constituents?

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Here's what I'm -- no, I'm not. Here's what I'm concerned about is the court that is supposed to be above politics is weighing into our duties and the president's duties. That's not the court's decision. That's not the judges' decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: You're seeing a variety of reactions, some saying Shelley Moore- Capito, a lot of uncertainty. People know this is difficult.

Roger Marshall, Tom Tuberville saying -- Tommy Tuberville saying it's going to come. Don't worry. The payments will come out.

And then Markwayne Mullin criticizing the courts for stepping in in front of what Trump is doing.

DAVID WEIGEL, SEMAFOR NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Like the White House, referring to the judges, no matter who appointed them as activist judges. That's become pretty typical of the administration.

I think they're taking a little bit further. If you lose in court, that's illegitimate. If you win, it is legitimate.

With these Republicans -- Markwayne Mullin is not going to be in trouble. The people we were all watching for, how they voted on nominations, or whether they were going to be responsive to these calls they were getting, what are they responsive to next summer? It is whether Elon Musk and other big donors are funding enormous efforts to beat them, and whether Donald Trump has endorsed an opponent.

And that has been a very effective way to keep people in line that did not exist for the same way for Trump eight years ago.

Thom Tillis, Cassidy are in Louisiana, already has a credible primary challenger. Collins less so. That's why I think she's been surprising Democrats, because what's the bigger threat to her? A primary challenger, a Democrat.

But there are lots of incentives for them to stay in line and be told -- and who would take the blame in six months, nine months if people are not getting their money?

The administration's already trying to blame Biden for being incompetent. That will work for a couple more months. They really can play this out.

RAJU: And you mentioned Bill Cassidy. In fact, he was one of two to just put out a tweet over the weekend. He said -- he said, I'm all for efficiency and ultimately downsizing the federal government. But firing a large number of new FBI agents is not the way to achieve this.

And Lisa Murkowski, another swing vote, raising some serious concerns about what she is saying. She said she shares the goal of reducing the size of the federal government, but this approach is bringing confusion, anxiety and now trauma to our civil servants.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, NEW YORK TIMES WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think somebody mentioned earlier that many of these federal employees are not just in D.C. They're across the country and they're a part of the constituency base. We talk about pressure from constituents on to members of Congress. I

mean, as you continue to put people on paid leave, that's not just a D.C. bubble issue. That's impacting people across the country.

Also another thing to watch in terms of pressure from voters. Do consumer prices go up as these tariffs go into place as well as most economists would say that they will.

Then people may start to wonder, you know, what is going on with the administration. At this point, I'm feeling the pressure on day-to-+day issues.

That being said, at this point, we really have not seen a sign that Trump's grip over the party is shaken in any way.

RAJU: There's no question about it. And look, he's enjoying a honeymoon period right now. The polls have been more favorable to him than they have been in the past. But will that change when some of these policies take effect? We shall see.

All right. Coming up, a tricky map for Senate Democrats in 2026 just got a little tougher with two retirements giving Republicans new hope. Could more senators be heading for the exit?

[08:38:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: The midterms may be more than 600 days away, but the two parties are already aggressively plotting their strategy to seize power. And for Democrats, things have gotten a little trickier.

They were facing a tough map in the Senate, even before two incumbents announced their retirements -- that's Michigan's Gary Peters and Minnesota's Tina Smith.

The Republicans, who now hold a 53-47 majority are playing defense in 22 states, and two of the seats are considered the biggest Democratic targets. That's in North Carolina and in Maine.

But Democrats have their work cut out for them to defend their seats. Not only those two open seats, but also Georgia and New Hampshire, among some others that could come on the map. And more retirements might be coming down the pike as well.

My panel is back.

So look, the Senate is going to be tough. The House is a coin flip right now. We'll see what the environment is going to be like next year.

But for the Senate, two open seats now -- Michigan, Trump won; Minnesota, Trump lost. But it was smaller than margin in other states. How do you see these retirements impacting the Democrats' path back to power? WEIGEL: Well, they're part of a larger conversation post-Biden, about

how old you should be and continue to run for reelection. These are two senators who would have only been in their early 70s if they served another term.

RAJU: Which is young for the Senate.

WEIGEL: Young for -- too old to be a CEO at some companies, but young for the Senate. Democrats were expecting -- it hasn't happened yet -- Dick Durbin to reconsider whether he wants another term. He's 80 now.

There are -- there are -- there are members ten years older than them who have not made this decision. Those states, Minnesota Republicans have a problem of nominating terrible candidates for Senate at their convention. Democrats are -- when I talked to them, a little more confident.

[08:44:50]

WEIGEL: Michigan, they know is going to be a problem. That was going -- that's -- we're talking about looking at last year's spending, hundreds of millions of dollars that they might not have had to spend in Michigan, that they now will be asking their donors, the Reid Hoffmans, et cetera, to bail, to bail them out with.

(CROSSTALKING)

WEIGEL: And that can't go to save these other safer states.

RAJU: You mentioned some retirements. We don't know how these members -- what they'll do, but there are some where -- we're looking at Jeanne Shaheen in New Hampshire, Dick Durbin the number two Senate Democrat in Illinois, Jack Reed of Rhode Island. We'll see what happens.

And Mitch McConnell, of course, he is -- this could be the end of his long career. And we're seeing how he's reacting to the potential of being free from his leadership responsibilities. And maybe a Senate seat in two years.

KANNO-YOUNGS: You're seeing sort of in a way, how one can become liberated, you know, when they're in this situations.

RAJU: And when they're not running for reelection.

KANNO-YOUNGS: That's right, that's right. I mean, he's been one of the more well-known Republicans that (INAUDIBLE) some of Trump's cabinet picks or just in his being willing to be outspoken in his criticism against the current White House.

You mentioned spending. I mean, my colleagues also just reported when you look at the potential midterms coming up and forthcoming elections, that liberal donors, big time donors are pulling back their cash right now because of frustration with the Democratic Party and the fear, the environment of fear that has come about in this Trump White House as well. That's also going to be something to watch, particularly as it seems

like congressional Dems are sort of being selective in what they choose to sort of swing at, to, you know, spotlight for resistance and push back against the president.

It will be interesting to see sort of how that impacts the money on the back end as well.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes. You're seeing a fracturing right now within the Democratic Party in terms of how exactly do they respond to the second Trump administration?

You see the younger elements of the party -- (AUDIO GAP), Chris Murphy, the new leader of the (INAUDIBLE) -- all of them are saying we need to attack on all fronts.

And the billionaires that are helping Donald Trump in entering. A new one just entered on Friday, Joseph Gebbia, the AirBNB cofounder is going to be working with DOGE, sources told me.

And so that's something that you see the younger Democrats really trying to seize on and say, we have to do everything, everywhere, all at once. And then there's the older section of the party that is not necessarily comfortable with doing that and still wants to potentially just message on the economy and on the price of goods and not respond to these very other unprecedented actions that the presidency is taking.

RAJU: And that is the real challenge, right? Especially when you don't have a leader really driving the message of the party.

Yes, they're the leaders in Congress, but the one person they look up to, which leads a lot of different discussions about their path back to power.

All right. More than 600 days away. But the midterms will be here soon enough.

All right. President Trump is pushing to declassify new materials on everything from the JFK assassination to extraterrestrial life. I talked to the lawmaker leading the charge to investigate all of it. That's next.

[08:47:53]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: So what do the JFK assassination, Jeffrey Epstein and extraterrestrial life have in common? Well, they've lost hundreds of conspiracy theories over the years, and now we could be one step closer to finding out if there's any grain of truth there.

Now, after President Trump moved to declassify a host of "top secret" government records with more to come, Trump ally and Florida Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, is running a new task force to dig into all these documents. And she's promising to share whatever she finds.

Now, when I talked to her, she made clear she believes there could have been a second shooter in the JFK assassination. This, despite the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and there was no evidence of a broader plot behind President Kennedy's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ANNA PAULINA LUNA (R-FL): I think that the warren commission and the information that they presented was not the full picture to the American people.

RAJU: So you said that you think there could be two shooters. Who do you think could have been involved in that?

Luna: I don't know who -- again, I have not seen the declassified files yet. There are many doctors who include people that were in the attending -- operating room when President Kennedy was shot, that actually said that they noticed multiple entry wounds, not just in the neck, but also the head.

And then also at the autopsy in Maryland, they noticed that there was an entry wound in the back. And so, in my opinion, I mean, this is probably the biggest cold case file in American history.

RAJU: Would any of that could convince you that it was just Lee Harvey Oswald (INAUDIBLE).

LUNA: I mean look, I want to see all the declassified information. If I'm wrong, I'll admit that. But as of right now, based on some of the stuff that's already publicly out there, I don't agree with that theory.

RAJU: You obviously been involved in trying to figure out about unidentified aerial phenomena.

LUNA: UAPs.

RAJU: This is part of your task force as well. Do you believe the government is hiding information about extraterrestrial life?

LUNA: I find it very, very odd that instead of just coming out and saying, we don't have anything, that we're constantly being stonewalled and stove-piped with certain information.

In my opinion, the fact that they're hiding it probably means that there's something there.

RAJU: So the Epstein list, I think there's some reports that Trump's name might have been on there. Not that there's any allegation of anything wrong, but would you put any information out there, even if it somehow implicated the president?

LUNA: Well, I will put out information to the American people, as that is what we promised to do. [08:54:45]

LUNA: But again, when you have only partial truths, then you can create a narrative implying that the president would be doing something that he's not.

So I would hope and I would think that having the full picture will answer those questions and obviously refute those allegations.

RAJU: And last question for you. Some people say they're chasing conspiracies. What do you say to them?

LUNA: Well, if I'm a conspiracy theorist for looking into who assassinated the president, that would have to be me and most of this governing body, because there's a lot of Democrats that want to know, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, President Trump has repeatedly distanced himself from Epstein, saying, "I wasn't a big fan of Jeffrey Epstein," adding that he hadn't spoken to him in many years and he had, quote, "no idea that Epstein was allegedly sex trafficking minors.

And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju and follow the show @insidepolitics and follow me on Instagram @Manu_Raju.

If you ever miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for INSIDE POLITICS.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH: Dana talks with Trump border official Tom Homan, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. Well see you next time.

[08:55:48]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)