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Inside Politics

One Month In: Much Of Project 2025 Agenda May Be Still To Come; Sources: Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. CQ Brown On Potential Purge List; Defense Secretary Ordering Massive Military Budget Cuts; Bodies Of Four Deceased Israeli Hostages Returned To Israel; Israeli Foreign Minister: Negotiations Over Phase 2 Of Gaza Ceasefire Deal Set To Begin This Week. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER & EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: -- agencies, or at least directing agencies to act in a certain manner. Again, I don't think this is the stuff that voters are paying a tremendous amount of attention to, where it becomes problematic, potentially down the road for Republicans, if a disaster strikes the country. Which we know, we have hurricanes, we have floods, and there is, the response to it is not great.

Who gets the blame? The folks who did the cutting of the agencies. There are just so many things that government does, people don't realize that they do. This is going to be, it's harder and harder for an administration to walk away from and blame --

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: And blame the last guy.

WALTER: Correct.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: I would also note that some of the things on the list require Congress. Those are not things --

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- that can just happen with the executive. And so --

BASH: I realize that, but some of the things that they've already done require Congress.

CHALIAN: No, no, no, I'm not belittling the list -- I'm --

BASH: No, no, but I'm saying like, who knows if they care if Congress should be involved.

CHALIAN: Right. But as we are seeing, even the dismantling of some of these agencies can only go so far if they are created by statute. We've seen some courts already weigh on this, that Congress will need to be involved. And so, it's like hearing about 8 percent budget cuts from the Department of Defense. I'd like to hear a little bit more how the Republicans in the Senate feel about cutting defense by 8 percent. Some of this is going to come into conflict with even those in his own party up on Capitol Hill.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, for all the planning that has gone into this, I mean, the work of Project 2025 is largely the work that's been done over the last four years. So, no doubt, they're much more prepared this time around.

One big question, though, that I have, all presidents are judged by external events that they are not thinking about.

BASH: Yes, yes.

ZELENY: And what is all this reshaping, resizing, shrinking government done for a readiness? I'm already hearing from a lot of people on the immigration issue, for example. A lot of people are being pulled to work on immigration who normally do national security and other things.

Is this country ready for, God forbid, an attack? We were all here on 9/11, of course. What has all of this done for the readiness of government? And that, of course, is something that this administration, the external events often decide this success or failure of a presidency.

BASH: OK. Guys, thank you so much. Such a terrific conversation. Appreciate it.

Coming up, top brass at the Pentagon, as we were hearing from David, they may be getting the boot soon from the new Defense Secretary. What sources are telling CNN about a possible purge? That's after a break.

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[12:37:20]

BASH: Now, new reporting about a shakeup at the Pentagon. Sources tell CNN that the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, may fire top generals and admirals imminently.

Natasha Bertrand joins me now. Natasha, what are you hearing?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Dana, we're told that a list of over half a dozen senior officers currently serving at the Pentagon have been provided to Republican lawmakers for possible termination over the last several days. And on that list includes the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CQ Brown, as well as the chief of naval operations, Admiral Lisa Franchetti.

Now, both have been in Hegseth's crosshairs in his sights since before he was even installed as Secretary of Defense. Hegseth said on a podcast just before he was nominated to be secretary that CQ Brown should be fired because he is woke and he is too focused on diversity, equity and inclusion programs in the military. Now, it had seemed that their relationship had improved because Hegseth on his first day at the Pentagon said that he looked forward to working with Brown, but he is apparently on this list that was sent to Capitol Hill in recent days.

Also, Lisa Franchetti, Hegseth actually specifically targeted her in his most recent book, "The War on Warriors", suggesting that she was only hired as the chief of naval operations because she is a woman. He said, "If naval operations suffer, at least we can hold our heads high because at least we have another first, the first female member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Hooray!", he wrote very sarcastically in his book.

Now, rumors have been circulating for weeks that they could be fired. It remains unclear if they actually are going to be, but it seems more imminent now that they have sent this list to Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

And we should note that all of this turmoil comes as the Pentagon is in fact preparing for mass firings of civilian probationary employees across the department. That could be tens of thousands of employees who could be fired as soon as the end of this week.

And we are told that defense officials are actually raising concerns with their superiors over the possibility that these mass firings could actually run afoul of the law governing civilian management, civilian employee management in the U.S. military.

That law says that the Secretary of Defense, quote, "May not reduce the civilian workforce programmed full-time equivalent levels unless the secretary conducts an appropriate analysis of the impacts of such reductions". And we're told that that analysis has not been done.

And finally, of course, we are hearing that Secretary Hegseth has ordered the military to figure out a way to cut 8 percent of the military's budget each year over the next five years, a really dramatic cut that could also dig in at U.S. military readiness. They're still trying to figure out, of course, where those cuts are going to come from, Dana.

[12:40:07]

BASH: Yes. And if Congress, the Republicans who run it will in any way, shape or form agree with that really important reporting on the military leadership and what could be to come at the Pentagon.

Thank you so much for that, Natasha.

And up next, quote, "Our hearts lie in tatters". Those are the words of the Israeli president on a day so many of his country people have dreaded.

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BASH: Today, the youngest and oldest hostages taken by Hamas terrorists on October 7th, 2023 will return to Israel in coffins. [12:45:04]

We're still waiting for a confirmation, but we are going to start with the youngest. Kfir Bibas was barely 9 months old, his brother Ariel, only 4 years old. They were abducted with their mother, Shiri.

The redheaded babies were in their terrified mother's arms when they were all captured. They became a symbol of Hamas' depravity that day. Yarden Bibas, the children's father and Shiri's husband, was released alive earlier this month.

Now, the oldest hostage, Oded Lifshitz, was 83 years old when he was taken hostage with his wife, Yocheved. Oded spent his life advocating for peaceful coexistence. His grandson has written about how he and Yocheved would transport sick Palestinians from Gaza to Israeli hospitals. Yocheved Lifshitz was released on October 24th, 2023.

I'm joined now by the president of Israel, Isaac Herzog. Thank you so much for being here, sir.

There's no question this is an incredibly difficult day in Israel. And I want to read for our viewers what you wrote this morning. You said, "I bow my head and ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness for not protecting you on that terrible day. Forgiveness for not bringing you home safely".

Talk more about that.

ISAAC HERZOG, PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL: Well, Dana, it is a very painful day, an agonizing day in Israel. It's a national mourning day, in a way. We were -- our hearts were always, always focused on the little toddlers of the Bibas family and their mother. And Oded Lifshitz, as you mentioned correctly, he was a staunch advocate of coexistence and peace with the Palestinians, and Yocheved as well, and they're brave people.

But I felt a sense of duty to tell my people and tell these families that we are sorry. We are agonized. It's a terrible, terrible tragedy, which was launched at us by a barbaric terrorist organization, which is celebrating their death and carried out a whole ceremony, despicable, disgusting, atrocious ceremony when they delivered the coffins.

And now the bodies are checked at the forensic institute. The Lifshitz body was identified, and his family announced that he's identified. And we are all in pain and sorrow these very moments. And, also, we are in gratitude to all those who have helped us bring about this hostage deal.

I want to thank the American administration throughout the war, from the Biden administration to the Trump administration. I want to thank President Trump for his unique efforts that coerced all sides to get into this hostage deal so that we can --

BASH: Yes.

HERZOG: -- move on and hopefully bring all of them back home.

BASH: And I want to ask you a little bit more about what's to come with regard to this deal. But, first, Hamas, of course, claims that they died during Israeli strikes. What does Israeli intelligence tell you about how the Bibas children and their mother and Mr. Lifshitz died?

HERZOG: So, the prime minister's office just now has issued a statement making clear that the Islamic Jihad was responsible for the Lifshitz murder. We are waiting for the Bibas to -- you know, for the forensic approval. So I would not confirm or deny anything regarding the Bibas family.

This is a very delicate and painful moment for all of us. I remember myself in Davos conference of last year of the World Economic Forum presenting a picture of Kfir Bibas celebrating one year. And I will say, though, that, you know, the Islamic Jihad and Hamas have killed, barbarically, innocent kids, and their mothers and their fathers and their grandparents all throughout on that horrific October 7th.

Let's not delude ourselves. You know, there is a girl, Mila Cohen. She was a 1-year-old toddler. They shot her in her bedroom when they walked into that house. They took -- why would they take a family like the Bibas family? What brings somebody to kidnap a mother and two toddlers from -- in their pajamas?

[12:50:02]

And this shows the cruelty of the enemy that we are dealing with, pure cruelty that must be met forcefully, because it's a threat to the ordinary human beings.

BASH: Mr. President, there has been so much death. You just talked about the brutality on October 7th. And, since then, there has been a lot of bloodshed of innocent people in this war. So I do want to look at what comes next to try to end it.

Phase two negotiations are supposed to start again this week. This morning, you mentioned the prime minister. He also said, quote, "We will take revenge on Hamas." How do the events of today impact the phase two negotiations?

HERZOG: It's a very emotional day. But, at the end, we are leaders, and we have to lead our nations to a better life and a better future. First and foremost, we want to bring all our hostages back home. There are 69 of them, and it is assumed that the majority of which are still alive.

And we have a -- we are speaking, I'm speaking to their families throughout these days. We have to get to the second stage of the deal and complete it and bring them back home, whilst making sure that Hamas cannot reign Gaza the day after, because we want to change the trajectory. We want to change the history.

BASH: Well, I want to ask --

HERZOG: We want to change the future of both peoples.

BASH: Yes, and it makes sense. The Palestinian people have a right to not live under terrorists, and the Israeli people have a right not to live with the threat of terrorists. But I just want to ask about what you just said, because Israel wants all the hostages back.

As you said, they want Hamas to never hold power in Gaza again. Hamas wants to keep its power in Gaza. And the hostages are their leverage. So, how do you square these two things which really seem irreconcilable?

HERZOG: So, if you look at the recent weeks, a lot of things have happened. And I must commend President Trump for shaking everybody's, you know, rusty thoughts and explaining to all that this reality must change, meaning we cannot repeat time and again the same paradigm of terror attack, war, pain, bloodshed, and et cetera, et cetera.

We have to change it. That is why we have to think with new plans and new ideas. We do expect our Arab neighbors and partners for peace, both Jordan, Egypt and the Abraham Accords countries, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, others, and hopefully even Saudi Arabia to come forward with a major plan that will be a basis for a dialogue to see how we make sure that Hamas is out and the people of Gaza have a better future.

BASH: So --

HERZOG: This is exactly what's been dealt with in the Oval Office and the prime minister's office these very days.

BASH: So you referred to what the president, President Trump, said as shaking the rust off. It sounds to me like that suggests that you don't think that his announcement, which was pretty audacious, to have the U.S. come in and just remove all the Palestinians from Gaza, it sounds like you don't think that was an actual plan, but perhaps a negotiating tactic?

HERZOG: No, what I'm saying is, it was a zoom-in on something which we should understand. And the worst thing is to go and repeat the same mistake again and again. We have to remind our viewers, in 2005, Israel withdrew from Gaza, at the instruction of Prime Minister -- then-prime minister Ariel Sharon, based ourselves on the border. We thought the Palestinians will manage their affairs democratically and peacefully.

A coup d'etat by Hamas took over Gaza and make it -- and made it into a launching pad of Iran. So now we have to deal with two things, with Iran and how do we eradicate its capabilities in radicalizing the region? And two is Hamas in Gaza. How do we make sure that there is a different future?

BASH: And --

HERZOG: Now, if we look at it cerebrally, the way you presented it, we will repeat the same mistakes. If we come with new ideas out the box, and that's exactly what President Trump alluded to, that is an important development.

We need partners for that. And we need, of course, the most important thing of all is to bring our hostages back home, open the door to a different future to the region.

BASH: We're out of time. Just, if I could, a yes-or-no answer on a very complicated question. Do you support Donald Trump's idea to remove all Palestinians from Gaza?

[12:55:05]

HERZOG: So, I must say that, since he spoke about it, a lot of things have occurred. The king of Jordan was there. The Egyptians are working on a plan, and many other elements are dealing with it, and we are waiting for the way the Israelis will deal with it.

Of course, the idea was to see how we can change and get out people who simply coerce the life of Palestinians into a direction of terror and hate. And it requires a radical change, and we are in a historic period that requires historic decisions.

BASH: President Herzog of Israel, thank you so much for being here, sir.

HERZOG: Thank you very much.

BASH: And thank you for joining Inside Politics.

CNN News Central will start after the break.