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Commerce Secretary Hints at Possible Deal to Scale Back New Tariffs; Trump Expected to Talk Today with Canadian PM Trudeau; Trump Admits Tariffs Could Cause "A Little Disturbance"; Trump Digs in on Divisive Agenda in Speech to Congress; Democrats Bring Former Federal Workers to Protest DOGE, Musk. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 05, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on "Inside Politics", full speed ahead, President Trump makes clear in his historically long speech to Congress that from culture wars to trade wars, he's not retreating from a divisive agenda that seeks to upend American government and society.

Plus, a divided Supreme Court deals the president a blow in his effort to shut down American foreign aid. What does it tell us about how the high court's willingness to rule against President Trump is going to be seen in the future, or will it?

And Senator Pete, the Former Mayor, Presidential Candidate, Transportation Secretary, may be getting closer to running for an open Senate seat in Michigan. What does that tell us about his presidential ambitions. I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".

To tariff or not to tariff? That is the question gripping Washington, Ottawa and Mexico City right now. President Trump is expected to speak today with his Canadian counter-part after his Commerce Secretary seemed to suggest the White House could scale back some of the tariffs that Donald Trump just imposed less than 48 hours ago. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is at the White House. Jeff, what are you hearing from your sources about where things stand on this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, it is very much an open question if the president is going to go through with those tariffs or not. Of course, this has been one of the themes that we've seen over the first several weeks of this new administration. The president threatens a tariff and then he backs away.

But this week, he actually went through with his tariffs. However, ever since he did, of course, the stock market reaction has been furious. And the president, as we know, follows the market very carefully. So, ever since then, his Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, who is a close adviser, has been sending all kinds of signals trying to reassure the markets that the president may carve out some exceptions, perhaps on the car industry.

The president, at a speech last night to the joint session of Congress mentioned that he had phone calls with leaders of the automotive industry, so we are watching for that today. But just to give you a sense of what we're talking about in the market confusion here, listen to these-sort-of-competing views from two top White House Advisers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, WH SENIOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING ADVISER: We've had two days of volatility in the markets, and everybody's hair is on fire. The most important uncertainty right now is whether we're going to be able to get the tax cuts in the bill.

HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: There are going to be tariffs, let's be clear. But what he's thinking about is which sections of the market that can maybe, maybe he'll consider giving them relief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Which sections of the market? So of course, the automotive section is one that would be hit the hardest, and of course, that would impact so many Americans. So, Dana, I'm told that the White House has been fielding phone calls from really worried and concerned Republicans. Never mind the applause last evening.

Of course, it was very robust. This is a unified Republican Party. However, there are deep concerns about these, these are tariffs. And the White House officials also have been fielding phone calls from car dealers and the associations that represent them.

Of course, those are found in virtually every town across America, so we are keeping a close eye on what the president is scheduled to do later today. He did not sound like he was backing off last night. However, Howard Lutnick suggests he might. So again, the question is the embark on a tariff as severe as the bite from the president. We may find out later today, Dana.

BASH: And it depends which adviser who has been out on television the last two hours, he is going to listen to or we should listen to -

ZELENY: That's right.

BASH: -- which, I think is the point. Thank you so much, Jeff. Appreciate it. And if you are feeling tariff whiplash, you are not alone. CNN's own Business Editor Extraordinaire David Goldman described it this way.

Quote, just after the stock market had its second freak out in a row, just after Republican members of Congress pleaded with the administration to dial down its trade policy, just after the International Chamber of Commerce warned of a Great Depression, like economic catastrophe. The Trump Administration appeared to change its mind on its massive tariffs on its biggest trading partners. Maybe we'll see. I'm surrounded by some incredibly smart reporters as well here at the table. CNN's David Chalian, NPR's Tamara Keith, Bloomberg and CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson and Astead Herndon of "The New York Times".

I mean, listen, we can actually see, and this is something that you kind of -- I kind of forgot, or at least there were cobwebs on this notion from the first Trump Administration, particularly on the issue of tariffs, that we can see based on who comes to the North Lawn of the White House at any given minute where the conversations might be going inside the Oval Office on an issue like tariffs.

[12:05:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And these conversations change minutes.

BASH: They do.

CHALIAN: So, it's important to stay on top of that no doubt. I will say what hasn't really changed over the course of decades is Donald Trump's belief in tariffs.

BASH: I say it since he came out -

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: -- it is one of his most consistent policy positions long before he was in elected politics, which is why I think that the various pressure points he faces, whether from the business community or from Republicans on the Hill are not instantly winnable positions for those trying to pressure him, because he's so set in this notion that this is a power play for a country to use, and we know he likes projecting strength in that way.

And so, I think all of that gets tied up into this policy, which I know we talk about tariffs, but the we don't -- we know a lot of forecasts of economic fall out of this stuff. We don't actually -- we have not seen right? So, does he stay committed to this? Then what is the fallout of that? Then how did the politics shift? It just takes some time for that to settle.

BASH: Yeah.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Because he uses this so openly as a negotiation tactic, it can sometimes be hard in the moment reaction. We know that he might reverse himself come next week, but there are real warning signs about like tariffs being a problem, a possibility of a problem for this White House.

Donald Trump's approval rating is that finally is net negative today. That's largely because of a flip in the way electorate has seen the economy. Recent polling shows that folks think the economic conditions are getting worse, not better. And I think yesterday is even clear, even when you hear the difference

between him and those advisers, like, what story are they telling people about why they should play higher prices? Why targets raising things? Why things might happen and we're in reaction to tariffs? And he hasn't really justified that.

So, when you hear some of the advisers, they'll say this is about fentanyl, this is about power. This about negotiation. But that's not what Donald Trump says. And so, I think David's point about what does he follow through on and what is the actual impact on people, might be the biggest question here.

BASH: And I just want to play a little bit of what the president said last night, because I think in a speech that was full of bravado, this was one small inkling of some vulnerability that he admitted the American people might have in the short term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Tariffs are about making America rich again and making America great again. And it's happening, and it will happen rather quickly. There will be a little disturbance, but we're OK with that it won't be much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK. We don't know how little? And we don't know that it won't be much?

TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yeah.

BASH: But what we do know, back to what you started with David, is that he is fundamentally convinced as an economic policy, and has been since -- you know, forever that maybe there will be some troubled waters along the way, but that ultimately it is a win. And we don't know if he is right, because it hasn't been tested, maybe ever at this scale, but certainly not in a century.

KEITH: Right. And he actually alluded to trouble that happened last time, when he had the trade war with China, which was American farmers were hurt by that. And he -- there was actually a bailout of American agriculture as a result of that. And he -- this was a moment in the speech that came right after that part that you played that really stood out.

Because it was an acknowledgement that there may be pain, and there may in fact be pain for an important constituency for the president.

BASH: Yes.

KEITH: I think the challenge in understanding his tariff policy. We know he loves tariffs, but it's not totally clear what his goal is with any of the tariffs that he announces. Sometimes the goal seems to be to raise money for the Treasury. Sometimes the goal is a negotiating tactic. Sometimes the goal is -- you know, to get even with other countries. And the talk of fentanyl is really a legal justification more than

anything else. So, I think that other countries, I think all of us watching, are challenged by if you don't know precisely what the goal is, it's hard to figure out how serious any one policy announcement it actually is?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And sometimes he talks about the goals being bringing back industry and manufacturing to this country that has gone over overseas.

BASH: That's right.

HENDERSON: Of course, politicians have been promised -- promising that for decades, that they were going to revive manufacturing, and it hasn't always happened. And so that's another role. It is striking, though, that we have an American President, and you hear some of his allies say this as well.

And they've been saying this for a number of weeks, this idea of there'll be pain now. But some sort of benefit in the future. And I would say in some ways, it's almost like what you hear from church. There's hell on earth and then heaven in the future.

[12:10:00]

And we'll see if he's able to convince his base of that. I think he's able to convince him of any number of things, but the wider public, this idea of more pain when you promised instant relief is quite a pill to swallow.

BASH: I'm glad you brought that up first.

HENDERSON: Yeah.

BASH: Let's just take a second to talk about what we're talking about when it comes to goods.

HENDERSON: Yeah.

BASH: And --you know food and everything that we are discussing. And you see that on the screen, fruits and vegetables, grain, meats, poultry, electronics, toys, appliances, footwear, cars, as Jeff Zeleny mentioned. And then "The Wall Street Journal", which has not been very into this Trump second term their Editorial Board so far, and that is an understatement, whatever happened to GOP concern for the working class.

HERNDON: I think this is the risk politically for Trump, because if you see his America First policies, I kind of sweet as I do with tariffs and economy on one piece, or immigration and deportations DOGE and reshaping government, even kind of actions in Ukraine, I think he's adding up to just a projection of American strength.

And so sometimes that negotiating track is really a branding strategy. But I think he should take lessons from Joe Biden, honestly, because when people - (CROSSTALK)

BASH: Well, he -

HERNDON: -- when people feel -

BASH: -- love to hear that.

(CROSSTALK)

KEITH: Who is going to do it.

HERNDON: Yeah. Because people feel as if the government is not responding to that immediate economic concern -

BASH: Yeah.

HERNDON: -- everything else becomes clouded. So many of those, so many of the reactions we heard to Biden's Ukraine policy -

BASH: Yeah.

HERNDON: -- was about their -- about inflation that we feel like money is going elsewhere.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: When -

HERNDON: And so, I'm saying if prices go up, and that is attributed to the inflationary tariffs that Donald Trump imposed. It's not just him not fulfilling his promise of lowering prices in one day. It's making that worse, and I think it risk folks looking at coloring his entire voice.

BASH: Here is -- here is a -- he will never admit it, but here is a small indicator of the fact that maybe he is taking one like sentence from the Biden playbook, at least at the beginning of the inflation going up in the Biden Administration.

Look at this, we have this really interesting graphic that shows you all of the topics that came up last night. Those small bubbles up on the top, those green bubbles, that's the economy and inflation. Those are the reason that Donald Trump was brought back to the dance.

CHALIAN: Yeah. I mean -

BASH: He barely talked about.

CHALIAN: This was one of the things I was looking for heading into the speech is what percentage of the speech would be solely focused on prices in the economy and what people are feeling given that, that is issue number one. I do think clearly, he's going to have to spend more time on that, or he is going to -- the risk.

The political risk you're talking about is going to be realized in some way, if not for Donald Trump, who, I think we see, somebody who feels unburdened by the fact that he doesn't have to run for re- election, certainly for his party. I just want to note Dana, though the tariffs were -- that we're talking about now it is like multiples of what he did in the first term.

BASH: Yeah.

CHALIAN: So, this is a dramatic increase in this which means its impact on the economy, if these experts are right, could also be dramatically.

BASH: Yeah, and in the first term, you were alluding to this Tamara, the farmers, particularly in a state like Iowa, they were really hurt. The federal government had to give them a bailout effectively. Before we go to break, I do want to show one thing. This is talk about something to sort of dangle out there.

A lot of people didn't see this. This is something that came out last night from the Chinese Embassy here in the U.S., if war is what the U.S. wants, be it a terror for a trade war or any other type of war, we're ready to fight till the end. We're going to go to break with that. But don't worry, we're going to be back with much more on President Trump's speech, including his message to the Democrats in the Chamber.

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[12:15:00]

BASH: No surrender, no retreat. That was the message from President Trump last night in his first joint address to Congress of his second term. 43 days in, it was a lot more here is what I have done than here is what I will do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There has been nothing but swift and unrelenting action to usher in the greatest and most successful era in the history of our country. We have accomplished more in 43 days than most administrations accomplished in four years or eight years, and we are just getting started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: My panel is back. Tamara, what is your sort of big picture takeaway of what his goal was and whether it landed?

KEITH: He was speaking to an audience of people who voted for him, and to that audience, this was spiking the football. This was -- there's no more woke in America. There was an emphasis on a lot of the sort of culture war things that were a big part of his campaign.

And there are two political scientists who I talk to regularly who study the State of the Union Address, or this Joint Address to Congress, Alison Howard and Donna Hoffman and credit claiming is always part of a State of the Union or Address to Congress.

[12:20:00]

President Trump's credit claiming was off the charts, especially given that this is the first -

BASH: Right.

KEITH: -- it's a month -

BASH: It -

KEITH: -- there's a huge amount of credit claiming and a minuscule amount of asking Congress for help. And really -- and that's not the norm for this kind of speech. And really, what it says is that he is going it alone and when you see then things like the Supreme Court coming in and saying, well, you may not be able to do that without Congress. He could find the limits of this going it alone. But in this speech, he -- you know -- he was just -- he was just loud and proud.

BASH: Nia, I want to read for our viewers what you wrote this morning. You wrote Donald Trump ripped his predecessor, gloated about his electoral victory, and dared Democrats to do anything other than sit through his Joint Address, the spectacle mirrored the country, which is also starkly divided along partisan lines, with Democrats unsure of the way forward, and Republicans largely in lock step with Trump.

CHALIAN: What a brilliant writer?

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: I think that's right. I mean, it was such a contentious speech, and we've seen some of that in the past, but this was off the charts. We heard going in that there would be fireworks, and there were fireworks. You had Al Green standing up, shaking his cane at Donald Trump and telling him, in fact, didn't have a mandate, as Donald Trump claimed to have one.

Democrats not sure what to do. They were sort of waving signs. Someone likened it to playing bingo, and some of those signs had things on it, like must steals and save Medicaid. But it was classic Donald Trump. I mean, he is someone who rode onto the stage saying that he alone could fix it. And there he was in full, provide me a spectacle, right for the American people.

I mean, there were these moments towards like he was -- he was Oprah, like giving out gifts and renaming refugees of a victim of an illegal -- of a murder. And he gave a kid who was a cancer victim, you're now a secret service agent -

BASH: That was really nice.

HENDERSON: That was so it was -- it was very moving. And then the kid who is now going to West Point, and he found out on television. So, so there were -- there were those moments. And he clearly was talking to his audience, his base and the Republicans there clearly in lock step with him.

HERNDON: Let's say something about those moments. I do think Donald Trump has really understood the changing media environment, and I think it should cause us to think even about the length of the speech a little differently, like more than even just the 90-minute continuous thing.

He's created these individual viral moments, and his star wattage in combination with Elon Musk, even to I think has Republicans in a place where they are dominating culture -

BASH: I'm so proud you brought that up.

HERNDON: -- dominating political conversation.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: And I say -

HERNDON: -- Democrats currently, one takeaway I have from yesterday, as they simply just don't have anyone who was in that league.

BASH: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

HERNDON: -- they don't have.

(CROSSTALK)

KEITH: May be -

HERNDON: So, I think that that moment really stuck out to me, even beyond the actual policy in rhetoric.

BASH: So, my old friend Jamie Dupre, who basically taught me how to cover Capitol Hill, he has a news-letter that goes out. It's called the "Regular Order". He wrote just basically exactly on that point. Who won last night, Trump or the Democrats? I'll answer it this way.

I always remember when Bill Clinton set the record for the longest speech. Reporters groaned and rolled their eyes, but the public loved it. It won't surprise me if that happens with Trump people like reality TV shows, and that's pretty much what Trump gives them. You're talking about the Bite Size viral moments, but he's talking about kind of the big picture and how it's perceived.

CHALIAN: Yeah. I mean, listen, we know that these speeches are largely watched by people who are predisposed to be fans of whoever is giving the speech to begin with. So, it is the broader coverage, not just those that are watching the speech live for 100 minutes.

BASH: Yeah.

CHALIAN: But the other moments that get filtered out that that I think permeate just that bubble, necessarily, of talking folks. He -- what is interesting to me is that he didn't seize the moment last night. And to me, this is the story of Trump's entire first term. To broaden his appeal -

BASH: Yeah, there you go -

CHALIAN: There is none of that right.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Yeah.

CHALIAN: This was digging in full steam ahead, just a total belief that he is setting the country on a right course, and he has a unified party in front of him to bolster that belief.

HERNDON: We are living in Project 2025. I mean, what we have learned from Trump and the Republicans who have won is that they simply don't believe they need to moderate. I mean, I asked about this, about this, a couple weeks ago, and the response I got from someone who was a big MAGA fan talks to Trump was, what's the worst-case scenario? We lose the House a little bit? Like they are -

(CROSSTALK)

KEITH: Exactly -

HERNDON: -- into the cost a political kind of blow back, and they have decided that their project, about presidential power, about the expansion of it, about executive authority, is actually just something more important. I think that that's their goal. And so even the language that he has in the speech that basically tells Congress you're unimportant. I think it's how they feel.

BASH: Yeah.

HERNDON: And they're going to try to work around them more than work with.

[12:25:00]

BASH: No, it's such a good point. There was real, one interesting sort of wrestling match, and that is over the narrative of these federal workers that happened last night, because the Democrats, so many of them, they brought people who had been fired, federal workers have been fired, not just here in Washington, but also out further in the country, in the swing State of Pennsylvania, Jessica Fair, she was brought with Congresswoman Chris Houlihan, I talked to her here, here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA FAIR, FORMER FEDERAL WORKER: We're not some faceless workers. We were extremely well qualified and vetted to do our jobs, and we were indiscriminately let go. I was with the federal government for five months. I had not had a performance review in that time period, so there really were no grounds to dismiss me. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And then you had the president talking a lot about Elon Musk, saying a lot of things that are just not provable yet, and in some cases, just not true about what DOGE is doing and the things that they have found. But he's definitely trying to frame that narrative, and that's really something that I find fascinating.

We are going to have to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere, because coming up the Supreme Court delivers a blow to President Trump's DOGE agenda. We are going to get some insight into what it means or doesn't mean anything for other cases headed to the court.

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