Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Trump-Putin Call Has Ended, Source Says; Democratic Governors Emerge As Possible 2028 Contenders; Walz, Newsom Debate How Democrats Can Appeal To Men. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired March 18, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF & POLITICAL DIRECTOR: -- situation, right, that he is not peace at any cost there whatsoever. He is hostages out or held to pay. That's the frame that he is putting on that conflict. So it's a different approach to these two very different conflicts.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Maybe as you're talking, I'm thinking he -- it may be the common thread is he is more like, maybe not more aligned, but he is like-minded in many ways with Vladimir Putin and with Benjamin Netanyahu, which is quite interesting, even though the countries could not be more different. Israel is an actual democracy.

OK. Is chaos a ladder for Democratic governors? Many of them are stepping into the spotlight, looking to seize on bad Trump headlines, maybe chart a path for themselves into the White House in 2028. We're going to talk about that after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:27]

BASH: The breaking news right now is that we have learned that the call between Presidents Trump and Putin just wrapped up. We have some terrific reporters on the scene, working their sources. CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is at the White House. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is in Odesa, Ukraine, obviously a very important city on the Black Sea.

Clarissa, stand by. Jeff, what are you hearing from sources inside the White House?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, we are learning from a U.S. official that the call between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin ended just a short time ago. So that would put the length of this call about two hours or so, give or take a few, which is about the same amount of time as their first call a little more than a month ago, which of course reset the relations between the United States and Russia.

We are just beginning to learn details of this call, but we do not know the central question really looming out of all this and that is Russia going to accept a ceasefire or not. That really is the first and foremost bit of business, if you will, that the two presidents that we're speaking with, but there is no question.

Donald Trump has elevated and welcomed Vladimir Putin back onto the world stage in a way that he had been essentially frozen out of for the three years after invading Ukraine. So clearly through flattery we have seen in a phone calls and conversations, the crux of this is exactly what Putin, if anything will concede or give up or what land he will take from Ukraine.

So we will be learning details of this. We expect to read out from the president here at some point, but we do know this phone call is now over between the Russian president and the American one. Dana?

BASH: Thanks, Jeff.

And Clarissa, you have been back in Ukraine now for a few days. I can't even imagine the level of anxiety you're hearing from Ukrainians about what went on in this conversation and what they feel they may be forced to give up when it comes to land and who knows what else.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, Dana, when you talk to people here, they're exhausted. It has been three grueling, incredibly painful years and Ukrainian people desperately want peace, but they want what they describe as a just peace and they won't accept peace at any cost.

And so when they heard President Putin last week, essentially saying, yes, but, and then going on to say Ukrainians can't use this time to train their troops. Ukrainians can't receive any weapons from the U.S. during this time. How will it be implemented? How will it be monitored? How will it be enforced?

And essentially in their eyes, basically filibustering the whole process, that really fed into their core belief, which is that Russia is not a trustworthy partner, that Russia does not genuinely want to end this war. We haven't heard any specific comment from Ukrainian authorities yet, Dana, as to this specific conversation between Presidents Trump and Putin, but we are expecting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to give a press conference of his own later.

And I think that you can expect to hear some pretty strong words. Don't forget, they were feeling in a much better place after that meeting in Jeddah, eight hours during which it really seemed like Ukraine was back on the front foot.

The relationship between the U.S. and the Ukraine was in a much better place. Ukraine had essentially shown the world that they are not the obstacle to peace, that they are ready to start this process in earnest. And if we now hear from this call that essentially President Putin has raised a number of preconditions and roadblocks, that really will reinforce what Ukrainian authorities have feared all along, that this is not a genuine effort and that this war is unlikely to end anytime soon, Dana.

And Jeff, you know, on that note, one of the sort of things that we've heard, we played a little bit earlier from the president's national security adviser, a soundbite from a couple of days ago, where he was kind of laying the groundwork for the idea that perhaps Ukraine is not going to be able to walk away from this with all of the land that they had, never mind three years ago, but also talking about Crimea and some of the land that they lost when President Obama was in power.

The other thing that we haven't heard lately is any talk of what Russia might have to give up. And so I know it's too early to know the answer to this, but one of the things that I'm wondering is if anything like that came up in this very long conversation between the presidents.

[12:40:10]

ZELENY: I mean, Dana, that really is the central question. And when you just think of the timeline of this, it has been 11 years to the date since the invasion of Crimea. And now there is yet another phone call. There is a conversation with the U.S. president and the Russian president over essentially what Russia will get to keep from Ukraine. That is where this conversation begins this time around.

So a dramatic difference over the last decade, certainly over the last three years, when the Biden administration effectively froze relations with Russia. So there is no doubt that the world would welcome a ceasefire, of course. But what does Vladimir Putin give up, if anything? And we have seen from this administration, from this president, virtually no sharp language or harsh talk, at least in public, about Vladimir Putin.

Was there anything more in a private conversation? We shall find out. But if just knowing what we know about this relationship, it's been one of flattery from the Putin side toward the American side. We have heard, you know, of course, just about two and a half weeks or so ago, it was that dramatic diplomatic breakdown here at the White House with the Russian president -- or Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

And Donald Trump reminded of people about how his sympathies lie with Putin in terms of all he has been through, all of Vladimir Putin has been through with the Russia investigation. So it is impossible to really quantify all the history leading up into this. But we will learn what came out of that phone call and if Russia is agreeing to any type of a ceasefire, as Ukraine already has.

BASH: And on that, Clarissa, we have from a Russian source that the call went, quote, "very well". I know that doesn't say a lot, but what do you read into that?

WARD: Well, I think what you can read into that is that the Kremlin is very pleased with this whole apparatus, with the whole appearance that it gives Putin on the world stage. What he longs for more than anything is to be seen, Russia to be seen as a great power central to world peace, making deals.

They are desperate to see those sanctions against them lifted and not so much to be rehabilitated, per se, but at least to reclaim the position that they believe is rightfully theirs. So for the Russians, they may see this from a public relations perspective as incredibly powerful and valuable. From the Ukrainian perspective, it is obviously very different because their concern is that their priorities and their needs and the suffering and killing and illegal invasion of this country will be forgotten amidst pragmatism.

At the same time, I think it's important to emphasize that a lot of Ukrainians are more pragmatic. If you look at the polling around things like giving up territory, particularly in Donbas, more and more Ukrainians have come around to the idea that in order for this war to end, for the killing to stop, that there will need to be painful concessions made. So Ukraine is willing to make those painful concessions, but they want to see it done in a fair way where they have a seat at the table.

And they would also like to see the Europeans having more of a seat at the table, because Ukraine views itself as a part of Europe, and Europe is obviously a central power in this entire discussion, and their sort of absence from the framework of this entire agreement has a lot of people here feeling very nervous indeed, Dana.

BASH: Yes, and as we wrap up this part of our conversation, we're putting up on the screen a map so that people have a better sense of what you were just describing with the Donbas there. I mean, I know people who have been paying attention to this war for over three years have a sense of where we're talking about, but up there in the northeast of Ukraine.

Clarissa, Jeff, thank you so much for your excellent reporting. Thank you for being here. Don't go anywhere because we're still talking to sources about what went on in that call. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:51]

BASH: Out of the wilderness and into the ring, Democratic governors are emerging as key opposition figures to President Trump and possible, possible successors to him at the White House. A lot of them looking at that option right now. This is a list of them. You see their faces.

There are eight of them there that we're watching for 2028. They each seem to have their own idea about how to win the White House back. One of the loudest against Donald Trump has been the Illinois governor, JB Pritzker. He is in Washington and said the following this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: What Musk and Trump are doing isn't about efficiencies or about cost savings, it is about cruelty. There's no grand master strategy to improve the lives of everyday Americans. This is true villainous cruelty by a few idiots who are trying to figure out how to pull off the scam of their lives.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: My panel is back. Phil? PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: So, Akayla has a great story on this today, where I was trying to say that I like in following it, how everybody is --

BASH: OK, hold it up a little higher.

MATTINGLY: Hold it up a little higher.

BASH: Yes.

[12:50:07]

MATTINGLY: It's just like a zigzag back and like everyone has a different view of how they're supposed to be approaching this moment. It's a great story and you should definitely read it. But I think it underscores the fact that kind of the way I'm thinking about it right now is it's early and Democrats were very, very kind of stunned by just how bad everything seemed to be in the wake of November.

And people are trying to figure it out. What I would say is, one, tip your cap to Mike Johnson for getting the votes to actually get it through the House when it comes to the spending fight they've been dealing with. I don't know why Schumer is taking all the heat for it. I'm probably going to get yelled at for that.

But two, they haven't even started legislative fights yet. They haven't even started the governor's races yet. Like the moments for the party to coalesce and start to find their way are those. Right now, I think you see, as Akayla pointed out so well in her story, people are positioning.

BASH: Well because you're such a good hype man. Luckily we have a quote from your fantastic story, which I will read right now. You say, "While a slumping stock market, Trump's escalating trade war and worry that inflation will make a comeback have given Democrats an opening on the economy, the party remains split over the causes of its electoral thrashing in 2024, and how to best use the limited power it has".

MATTINGLY: Or zigzags.

BASH: Or zigzags.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BASH: You could have just drawn a picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chartical (ph).

MATTINGLY: Yes.

AKAYLA GARDNER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Democrats are not on the same page. That much is clear. But I think the opening is really for anyone who wants to throw their hat in this race for president come 2028 to try to get their name out there because I think a lot of people feel like the party is a reflection of the base in some ways, that they feel deflated, they feel defeated after November. And so you're seeing people like Minnesota Governor Tim Walz really use this moment. Sort of an unlikely, right? He was on that failed ballot. And he's using this moment. He going -- he just went to Democrat -- or Republican districts, excuse me, to try to really talk about ways that Democrats need to fight.

You also see Illinois JB Pritzker doing the same thing. And he's someone who has a lower name I.D. and he's really using this moment to get some of that national attention. But I think the tension for some of these governors, people like Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, people like Wes Moore in Maryland, they have a re-election campaign coming up.

And they don't want their voters to think that they're already angling for the White House too early. They need them to think that they're going to stay in their states and govern there. And I think that's why we're seeing some more measured responses from those guys. And they also have to work with President Trump potentially if there's a natural disaster or anything of that nature.

BASH: Well, on that note, Gretchen Whitmer was at the White House last week saying that she had a productive meeting with President Trump. We discussed bringing good-paying jobs to Michigan, grateful to work with him when I can. So there's that.

And then there's Gavin Newsom, who, by the way, is obviously working with Donald Trump as much as he can. You saw what happened with the wildfires. But the fact that Newsom is trying to use this podcast to reach out to voters that Democrats have lost, particularly, he says very openly and clearly, young male voters, that isn't really sitting well with some of his fellow Democrats, including the governor of Minnesota, who was on the ticket with Kamala Harris, who was Gavin Newsom's guest on his podcast this week. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: These are bad guys, though. These are bad guys.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: But they exist. And we could deny they exist. They exist. Not only they exist, they persist. And they're actually influencing young kids every single day.

WALZ: How do we push some of those guys back under a rock?

NEWSOM: I think we have to first understand what their motivations are. I think we have to understand what they're actually doing. And I think that's --

WALZ: You don't think that's racism and misogyny?

NEWSOM: I think there's a lot of that, but I don't think it's exclusively that.

(END VIDEOCLIP) BASH: And just to underscore, when he -- when Walz said, these are bad guys, he was talking about Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk, who were among the first guests that Newsom had, and they had very friendly conversations.

CHALIAN: Yes. You know, kudos to Gavin Newsom for this. Not often can a politician launch some sort of communication product and break through. I think this is, to most, this is the third guest. This is probably the third week you've played a soundbite --

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- from Gavin Newsom's podcast. So in this, like, attention economy right now, he's done something that has broken through. And he, by the way, foreshadowed this when he launched it. He said he was going to talk to MAGA figures. And to me, it seems like a creative way to get Gavin Newsom some attention. It obviously has also invited some blowback to him that Tim Walz and many Democrats are voicing there.

But I think he'll take that blowback, to Phil's point, at these very early stages of the contest. I don't know if he would have done this, should he run or whatever, weeks before people tredge out in New Hampshire snow to cast their ballot. But in this early stage, it is a way to get attention.

By the way, I noticed you put eight people up on a graphic. The Democratic Party --

BASH: OK.

CHALIAN: -- would be lucky if it was only eight.

BASH: I know.

CHALIAN: Your show is going to hear from 12 people who are upset that their photos were not on that graph.

BASH: Yes. Those are -- yes, just to be clear, those are just the governors. We haven't even touch the United States Senate or House.

[12:55:08]

FRANKLIN FOER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: It's interesting to me just how ultimately empty a lot of these questions are at this early stage. Having people on your podcast is not really a significant positioning in terms of setting yourself up for a race in 2028.

In 2020, when Democrats were running against Donald Trump, it was pretty clear early on there were going to be fractures within the party. The party was getting pulled to the left in response to Donald Trump. It's not totally clear to me which direction the party is getting pulled.

I think maybe some of what Newsom is suggesting is that there's this, by engaging with MAGA, he's positioning himself, I mean, he has on transgender issues, like positioned himself closer to the center. But I don't actually know ideologically where the party is going.

BASH: Yes. I don't think anybody does.

MATTINGLY: That's OK. It's very early.

CHALIAN: That's what primaries are for.

BASH: Thanks, everybody.

Thank you for joining Inside Politics today. CNN New Central starts now.