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DOJ Deadline to Respond to Judge on Trump Deportation Plans; Trump Officials Confident of Supreme Court Siding with them on Immigration, Executive Power Cases; Trump, Top Allies Demand Judges Ruling Against him be Impeached; Trump Signing Order to Start Shutting Down Education Department; Fuming with Frustration. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 20, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: Today on "Inside Politics", walking the constitutional line the Trump Administration pushing the limits of presidential power and escalating attacks on a federal judge and publicly questioning the court's authority. But are they willing to actually defy a judicial order? The key deadline right now that may provide an answer.

Plus, RIP to the DOE today, President Trump will sign an executive order to shut down the Department of Education. We'll break down potential consequences for students, parents and teachers. And crafting a counter attack a top Democratic Polster is here with new data on how the party should solve its messaging problem.

One clue involves talking about the richest man in the world and also big cuts to Social Security and Medicare. I'm Manu Raju, in for Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".

First up deadline passed, a federal judge just gave the Justice Department one last chance to provide more information on why hundreds of migrants were deported over the weekend, seemingly in spite of a court order to turn those fight -- turn those flights around their deadline, noon today, AKA right now. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is following these latest developments. So, Katelyn, what are you learning?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Manu, I just looked at the docket in this case. I'm not seeing anything in from the Justice Department. But that doesn't mean that they didn't file. We just don't have an answer yet. They were -- they have the ability to put something to the judge under seal so secretly.

So, we might not actually see anything in the public domain. But the judge gave them options. He said, I actually do want answers still. He wants to know about two flights on Saturday that were taking off basically while he was having a hearing about whether the removal of migrants on these planes was legal. He said that it might not be. So, he wanted to know what time the planes took off from U.S. soil,

when they left U.S. airspace, into international waters, when they landed in a foreign country, and if anyone on those planes was being solely removed because of the presidential proclamation that the administration now under his court can't be using?

But Manu, it is a much bigger situation in court than just about these questions. He's also giving them an option not to answer them. If the Justice Department wants to tell the court these are state secrets or these are classified, that's an option too. That might be happening right now.

But the bigger situation here is that is the Trump Administration willing to defy orders, whatever they may be, submit a filing. Don't let those planes take off. That is the record Judge Boasberg is trying to build, trying to see if that will happen. And what we are watching for too a lot of people in Washington looking at this case, not for the minor bits of what's happening each day, but more, how does this resolve?

Donald Trump, though, has been asked directly about whether he's willing to defy a court order, and here's what he said on Fox News on Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I never did defy a court order.

LAURA INGHRAM, FOX NEWS HOST: And you wouldn't in the future.

TRUMP: No, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges. We have very bad judges, and these are judges that shouldn't be allowed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: Even so Manu, there are court filings where the Justice Department is talking a big game and arguing that this judge shouldn't have power over the presidency, back to you.

RAJU: Defying a court order, perhaps in the eye of the beholder. Katelyn Polantz, with that, we'll come back to you if the filing does come out this hour. Thank you for that. I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters, Ligh Ann Caldwell, a "PUCK", CNN's; Jeff Zeleny, Edward- Issac Dovere of CNN and Seung Min Kim of "The Associated Press". Good to see you all. Seung Min, welcome back. It's great to see you as well.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.

RAJU: And you know, I want to talk about just the big picture of where we are in all these lawsuits. There are 160 or so lawsuits, according to Pam Bondi and all these different administration actions, all these efforts to purge the federal government, this being one of them, the deportation of all these migrants are now in this El Salvadorian President. Jeff, you're in the White House every single day. There's a long game here. They know they're going to get hit with all these lawsuits, and they're OK if they lose in the District Court, because ultimately, they believe they can expand their executive power down the line when it gets to the Supreme Court?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There's definitely a through line to every single one of these lawsuits and threats of lawsuits. It is the expansion of executive power. This is how the president views his authority the second time around, they're doing much, much, much more of it than the first time around. Really have been laying in wait for the last four years during the Biden Administration, planning out all of these executive orders.

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They know they will be challenged. I think the response to the challenge has been the most interesting, like in this case, in particular, the president has really gone hard after a Judge Boasberg calling for his impeachment, which, as you know, there's very little stomach for an impeachment in the Senate. Only happened 15 times -

RAJU: -- high crimes and misdemeanours.

ZELENY: For sure. Only eight of them have actually been removed. That's not going to happen. But important to point out, in this case, it's just a temporary one, so at the end of the day, the judge could actually rule on the side of the Trump Administration, then I assume the president just walks away from it.

But the big picture here is it's the flex of executive power and authority in which of these cases will end up in the Supreme Court, and that is the ultimate decision here. So that's why this week was so interesting, because Justice Roberts weighed in and basically slapped the president gently and said -

RAJU: Yeah.

KIM: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: -- you know, impeachment is not appropriate. That's why we have the appellate process. But Justice Roberts is going to be a key player in all of this, as is Amy Coney Barrett as the year rolls along.

RAJU: Yeah, and look, we'll see if this case ultimately gets the Supreme Court as well. Remember, this happened back on Saturday where these planes were being sent to El Salvador. The judge in this case, James Boasberg told him to turn the plane around. They said the plane was already enroute or past the United States airspace, and now, ultimately these prisoners are in this prison.

But why is the administration not disclosing more information about who is actually in the El Salvadorian prison? This is what Karoline Levitt, the White House Press Secretary, said when asked about this yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why can't the administration just release basic information like their identities and names?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE PRESS SECRETARY: We are not going to reveal operational details about a counter terrorism operation, but what I can assure you, as I said on Monday, we have the highest degree of confidence in our ICE agents and our customs and border patrol agents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Seung Min, you long covered immigration issues, is this normal to not disclose this kind of information? They say it's -- they don't want to reveal operational details like counter terrorism operation, but oftentimes we do at least know the identities of those individuals?

KIM: Right. Right. And I also think it's worth pointing out to that you are getting information about people who have, may have -- who have been sent back to El Salvador through other venues, or lawyers who have filed declarations on behalf of these people, and they say they were not gang members.

These are innocent people, and so you are and that is why there are so many questions to the administration about how they went about choosing who to deport. You know, what kind of -- what kind of investigation did you have White House officials this week, when we were there and we were asking?

We asked them, what specific parts of the investigation did you do to ensure that these were actually people who should not be in the country? And they said, we've done our investigation, but they haven't elaborated further.

RAJU: Yeah. I mean, they'll eventually -- they'll get pressure from Congress anything about answer to that. But Democrats will say they want information, even the White House will eventually be forced to provide this information to the public.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Yeah. Well, it's also interesting that they designated the gang a terrorist organization in the weeks ahead of this, lead up to this, because they're not talking about this from a deportation standpoint. They're talking about it from an act of war standpoint, which, for them, changes the legal calculus.

But what's happening in Congress? I will see you know the hard-line Republicans Trump allies are talking also about impeaching judge Boasberg --

RAJU: Before you continue on, this is just from your own reporting. I want to read a part of that because you talked to Congressman Dusty Johnson, who is not one of those hardliners, more moderate than those hardliners. He said, few Republicans on Capitol Hill have any appetite for impeaching judges. We shouldn't impeach judges because they render a decision we disagree with.

The remedy for bad decisions is getting them overturned on appeal. So that's what Congressman Dusty Johnson said. That is perhaps not in line with some of the more hard-liner members. Jim Jordan, the House Judiciary Committee Chairman, said yesterday that all options are on the table about how to proceed.

CALDWELL: Yeah, all options are on the table.

RAJU: Because he has to say that.

KIM: Right.

CALDWELL: He has to say that. But I am told by Republicans that, look, they are going to hold hearings. These are not going to be investing or impeachment type hearings. They are hoping that these hearings satisfy the demands of the Republicans who are wanting more information about this.

As far as the Democrats are concerned, Senator Schumer held a call with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee earlier this week where they were strategizing how to talk about this. As we know, the Democrats are struggling on how to figure out how to respond, since they don't have a lot of power. So, we'll see what sort of strategy they come up with. But -

RAJU: -- we have that -- Democrat -- from Democrats on this.

EDWARD-ISSAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, they don't have any power to do anything, right?

RAJU: They get at least, you know, we push back perhaps -

DOVERE: -- and part of it is that they're trying to figure out the politics of looking like they are standing up for people that the Trump Administration -

CALDWELL: Yeah.

DOVERE: -- is labelling as terrorists.

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But I think there are three strands that are coming together here. One is that what's going on in Congress and Republicans clearly not ready to be a check on Trump. Two is the feeling that the Trump Administration, President Trump himself has that sort of to judge is like, OK, we're going to keep doing it, like, try to make try to stop us.

And the third is this, invoking the war on terror, right? And going, I think Leigh Ann's point is exactly right, that there are legal things, not just about the war on terror, but other avenues that they're pursuing. What using this law from when John Adams was President, but it's still on the books, and the Trump officials have been very diligent about finding these laws and the ways to go about them in a strategy that they have -- they were ready to go on from day one.

And that's what we see playing out here. And importantly, we are 60 plus days into this presidency. They have a long time to play the rest of this out.

RAJU: In meantime, there was this incident that happened in the wake of this arrest that happened of this Palestinian Activist, Mahmoud Khalil from Columbia University. He was, of course, was arrested by immigration officers nearly two weeks ago, and this caused, of course, a lot of controversy.

And then now we've seen what happened to this Georgetown University fellow named Badar Khan Suri he is an Indian national was on a visa to continue his doctoral research on a peace building in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's according to Georgetown University, but he was arrested and detained by the Homeland Security Department on Wednesday after his visa was revoked.

This is what the Homeland Security Department Spokesperson said about this, said that he was a foreign exchange student at Georgetown University actively spreading Hamas propaganda and promoting anti- Semitism on social media. They said he has close connections to a known or suspected terrorist who was a senior adviser to Hamas.

So, then Marco Rubio Secretary of State issued a determination that his activities rendered him deportable in the United States. The Georgetown University President said they were not aware of him engaging in any illegal activity. We have not received a reason for his detention, and they're fighting this in court to release him.

What message in the wake of what we saw it happened in Columbia University? What message is it sending about this dissent and right because free speech advocates are bit alarmed by this.

KIM: Right, free speech advocates and also so much of the focus during the campaign was on Donald Trump's focus on rooting out illegal immigration. But we see that this is -- these are people who are here legally. There are some cases where they are legal permanent residencies.

These are green card holders, who are basically -- essentially citizens, except for the formality of becoming a citizen. So, this is them expanding their power in more ways than was initially anticipated.

RAJU: Yeah.

DOVERE: I mean, anti-Semitism is terrible. It's disgusting, it's corrosive. It is not illegal and that -- and you see over and over again the Trump Administration now invoking anti-Semitism or fighting anti-Semitism as part of the rationale for what they're doing, in some cases, at least, it seems to align with things that they might have been doing otherwise, right?

It's a question of how much invoking anti-Semitism and fighting against it was part of what they did at Columbia with cutting $400 million in funding, or is that part of a strategy of going after universities and trying to change the conversation that's happening on college campuses.

And that the administration and the president keep coming back to it, not always in ways that that completely aligned with what they're doing. And again, it's free speech, it's anti-Semitism is not illegal.

RAJU: Yeah.

DOVERE: It's not. It's terrible, but it's not illegal.

RAJU: This will be one of those things fought out in court, again, one of the many lawsuits are fighting. We'll see the implications of those lawsuits as well. All right, coming up, closing down the Education Department has been a Republican dream for decades. But how will voters respond when it becomes a reality that's next.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By eliminating the Department of Education less than two years after it was created, we can not only reduce the budget, but ensure that local needs and preferences, rather than the wishes of Washington, determine the education of our children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: That was 1981 for decades, Republican politicians have echoed that Ronald Reagan promise. In a few hours, President Trump will deliver on it. He's set to sign an executive order that will begin dismantling the Education Department. Officially shutting it down would take an act of Congress, but already they're hollowing it out, laying off over half its staff.

My panel is back. So just to remind viewers what the Department of Education does and does not do. It does help fund K-12 schools, manages federal student loans, investigates discrimination complaints. There's a lot of things they do. Research is reading and math levels it does not actually set curriculum, and it does not certify teachers or tell schools what to teach.

But there are 50 million public school students who could be caught in the middle of this. What are the implications of this? A lot of it is already run on the state level, but this is a $268 billion agency, if it is actually effectively wound down, what are the implications going to be?

ZELENY: Look, I mean, some of those things about what they -- what actually is a mission of the department. They will find homes elsewhere. I mean, student loans aren't going away. I mean, the Office of the Civil Rights is still going to have a big role also in in higher ed and education at all levels.

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So, a lot of these programs will be kind of parcelled out to other segments of the government. But I think the bigger question here is -- you know it does take an act of Congress to shut it down, or dismantle it, or do away with it, but they're squeezing it so much it effectively is already happening.

But look, this is something I can't recall at Trump rally that I was at where he didn't bring this up. But that is true of many Republicans. I mean, going back -

RAJU: Right.

MIN; Right.

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: I remember Lamar Alexander.

ZELENY: I was talking about Lamar Alexander that when he ran in 96 -

RAJU: And he became Education Secretary.

ZELENY: He did. But look, I think the -- and it's something that Secretary Leonard McMahon told the Senate during a confirmation hearing. I mean it, but she said that she thinks it's the purview of Congress to close it down. So, we shall see actually, what happens to all of these programs.

But when the president signs this executive order at four o'clock, he'll be in the East Room of the White House surrounded by school children I'm told that's the setup there. So, this is very much going to look like -- you know the handing something back to the estate control. In some respects, that's a good thing. Some respects, some people view it as not a good thing.

We know it'll be illegally challenged as well. But this one seems to be more sort of thought out and more planned out than rather, just like signing an executive order out of nowhere.

RAJU: Sure. But is it popular? This is according to a Reuters poll that was out recently, the answer is, no -

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: Yeah.

RAJU: -- you are correct, sir. 32 percent just, just 32 percent support abolishing the Department of Education. 66 percent two thirds of the public oppose this. Can they actually deliver this in Congress? Because Jeff is right, they're going to hollow it out.

CALDWELL: Yeah.

RAJU: But to actually end it, it's going to take an act of Congress. CALDWELL: But, yeah, well, Congress just kind voted to fund the Department of Education for the rest of the year to just last week. So, we'll see how the 2026 approach go, which they're going to start working on this now. But you know, I think that one thing that Congress has is going to pay attention to members specifically.

Yes, they might move the student loans to the Treasury Department or whatever, but they haven't seemed to lay out a plan yet about how that's going to happen. So, if there's any sort of disruption in that, it's members of Congress who are going to start to hear from their constituents. If people aren't getting their financial aid that they've applied to where there's challenges and disruptions within the school system.

DOVERE: I think that's the key point. I mean, no offense the Reuters Poll, but you can poll -- what do you think of the Department of Education? People Florida know what that is. What they know about the services and the programs that are provided for by the department and funded by the department.

And if they feel the impact in their lives in a way that they don't like that, whether it's a student loan program -- student loans getting being harder to get, or special needs programs in schools that are not being administered and those are suddenly gone or not functioning as well, then that will be what they respond to.

Now they may see -- they may feel like, OK, that's good, that needed to be reorganized. We'll see what that is, but it's that not the Department of Education.

RAJU: Look, it's for everything. It's not just on the cuts to the education departments. All the other services that are programs are being cut, and how that's impacting constituents, how constituents respond? This is from a Town Hall that happened last night, actually, Laramie Wyoming, Congresswoman Harriet Hageman and what she was hearing from the crowd.

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REP. HARRIET HAGEMAN (R-WY): Where's the only thing that goes is done, which is, it's so bizarre to me with federal government, but here's the thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: She was saying, calm down, calm down. They were not calming down.

CALDWELL: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

DOVERE: Wyoming the heart of liberal America -

RAJU: Seriously. But look, I think that the larger point is that if people are starting -- people there's anxiety about what's happening. When people start feeling it, they'll be it could be, have a different reaction of Washington?

KIM: Right. The general overarching mission of -- you know, cutting waste, cutting fraud, cutting abuse, that's a popular notion. But once you -- once you do it haphazardly, and people start to feel the services being taken away from them, that's where the backlash is.

I think it's been a generally consistent rule of politics that if once you take away something that voters have had and enjoyed for years, decades, generations, there will be a backlash. We saw that with Obamacare. We've seen that in so many other iterations.

This is why Republicans are saying we're not going to touch Medicare. We're not going to touch Social Security. And that's a really delicate line that Republican lawmakers are starting to hear at home.

RAJU: Yeah, speaking of DOGE and speaking of Elon Musk and speaking of Tesla, there's a push to buy Tesla stock from the Commerce Secretary.

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HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: I think if you want to learn something on this show tonight, buy Tesla. It's unbelievable that this guy's stock is this cheap. It will never be this cheap again when people understand the things he's building, the robots he is building.

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The technology he's building people are going to be dreaming of today and Jesse Watters and thinking, gosh, I should have bought Elon Musk's stock. I mean, who wouldn't invest in Elon Musk?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: I mean, this is the Commerce Secretary telling people to buy Tesla stock, and this after Trump trying to sell Tesla on the White House lawn.

CALDWELL: Yeah, nice to have friends in high places, right for your businesses. But, yeah, this is absolutely a conflict of interest. You know, the Federal Election Commission, I'm sure, is not really -

RAJU: Going to do anything.

CALDWELL: -- going to do anything about it. But, I mean, yeah, it's untoward. It's not what's supposed to happen, and that we obviously see what the political and personal benefit is for Donald Trump and Elon Musk, who Elon Musk is funding Republican candidates around the country too.

RAJU: And he will continue to do that, and I suspect that we continue to push from the White House and the administration to help Tesla. All right up next, Democrats are fuming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are the most soulless piece of crap I've ever seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your opinion, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soulless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, get off the face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So how should lawmakers respond? Top Democratic Pollster is here with tips from his new data. Stay with us.

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