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Inside Politics

Trump Escalates Feud With Federal Judge Over Deportations; AOC & Sanders Launch "Fight Oligarchy" Tour; Trump's Close Friend, Billionaire Steve Witkoff's Rising Star On U.S. Foreign Policy; New Netflix Series "The Residence" Explores Private World Of White House. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired March 21, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Some --

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

BARRON-LOPEZ: -- were in the process of claiming asylum. Are Americans opposed to all those different types of immigrants that have been living in this country, in some cases, for decades?

BASH: Yes, that's a very fair point. And Peter, to that point, it's -- it is why transparency is important. We're clearly not getting it. And reporting, like Laura and Priscilla's reporting about who these people are and are not as they are kicked out of the country.

PETER HAMBY, FOUNDING PARTNER, PUCK: I was thinking just that. A lot of political fights are academic and opaque to a lot of the American public. And if you look back on Donald Trump's first term, the moments when he really saw big public backlash were moments that were accompanied by images, videos, stories of people, child separation being a good example, January 6th being a good example.

You see the videos. And that's how I think, not to pivot to politics, but --

BASH: Well, it is Inside Politics, so you're good.

HAMBY: Thank you. Safe space. Democrats who are figuring out how to win the argument on a range of issues, DOGE, immigration. They're not really fighting on immigration because they got smoked on that issue in the last election.

But Priscilla's story is a great example. 60 Minutes did a great piece on USAID, visualizing the consequences of what's happening. When you just talk about and argue about a government shutdown, or they're getting -- Elon's getting into the Treasury Department, I think a lot of that as outrageous as it is, falls on deaf ears until voters and news consumers can have some emotional connection to the story and be like, this sucks.

BASH: Yes. HAMBY: And then Laura made a good point too, which is when you start to split hairs on immigration, the vast majority of Americans want criminals deported.

BASH: Yes.

HAMBY: But those numbers shrink when it gets into, do you support separating families who have been here? Do you support deporting people who have been here 10 years? Support for that is pretty low. Do you support people who've been here two years? Support gets higher. So again, you need individual stories like that one, which are incredibly moving.

BASH: We're going to have to sneak in a quick break.

Up next, new reporting first on CNN. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is facing a job that's, quote, "Not what he expected it to be". He fought off the idea of being little Marco once. What's going on now with his relationship and the job that he is trying to do? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:02]

BASH: First on CNN today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is two months into his new role with the Trump administration and the job hasn't been easy. Ukraine and the Middle East, of course, are dominating his focus.

And then you throw in that the Secretary of State is in charge of all foreign aid after Elon Musk and DOGE dismantled USAID. And then there is the public competition we've seen from the President's special envoy, Steve Witkoff.

CNN's Jamie Gangel has been talking to a lot of sources, as she is want to do. What are you hearing about the Rubio-Witkoff relationship?

Jamie, I am so sorry. We do not have audio. I wasn't sure if that was just me or the people at home. It's both.

So while we get that figured out, I'm going to go to Peter now, who is sitting here with me. Peter, thank you. Thanks for being here.

While we wait for that to get cleared up, I actually do want to shift to what I was going to talk to you about after my conversation with Jamie, which is what we've seen out on the road with AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders doing these unbelievable rallies in some swing states.

And just listen first to a soundbite with part of their message.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: No, we will not accept an oligarchic form of society where a handful of billionaires run the government. REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: The clever thing that these guys sell is making people like you and me think that we're just one step away from being in that club, too. Grindset mindset, right? Except their spoils are not earned. They are not working for these billions. They are stealing these billions.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: So there's two things I want to talk to you about. Number one is the message, obviously. And number two is the crowds. I mean, it really feels -- and I think we have some video of it -- it feels like campaign season, like the height of campaign season, the people who are gathering to see and hear them speak. Talk to that, there you see, at all of the stops.

HAMBY: Yes. And they're going to Arizona, Nevada. I think they were in Wisconsin. One thing to keep in mind is both of these political figures have deep connections to their audiences through their social media channels, but also through their email lists.

I mean, Bernie Sanders has been popular and famous for 10 years now, and his outside group can like turn -- flip a switch and get several thousand people --

BASH: Yes.

HAMBY: -- in a room. Not a lot of Democrats can do that. My question is, and I'm actually going out this weekend to some red districts in California, here in California, Ro Khanna is doing something similar, kind of doing the empty chair town hall in a Republican district.

[12:40:04]

I am curious how much of the stuff we're talking about on the show DOGE cuts are actually resonating out there. And that -- again, not to take away from what Bernie and AOC are doing, they're doing the exact thing that a lot of angry Democrats want them to do.

BASH: Right.

HAMBY: Which is do something. They're doing it.

BASH: Well, do something, but also specifically, this is a big part of each of their brands --

HAMBY: Yes.

BASH: -- which is populism. The -- you saw the signs about the oligarchy. I want you to listen, though, to a different perspective on this message that they're taking to all the states with all those events that we saw.

Ruben Gallego, just going back in time a little bit, because it's relevant, his conversation on the New York Times podcast about what the Democrats' message should be.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the Democratic message among some Democrats is sort of eat the rich, right?

SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D), ARIZONA: Right. No, it's not going to work.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not the right message.

GALLEGO: No, these people want to be rich. They want to be rich. Like most -- the base Democratic voter wants to be rich, and there's nothing wrong with that. And so, our job is to expose when there are abuses by, quote, unquote, "the rich, the wealthy, the powerful", then that's how we get those people that want to aspire to that to vote for Democrats.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

HAMBY: I think Gallego has a very smart point. AOC and Bernie are talking to their audiences. When AOC stands up for that crowd and says they didn't earn that, certainly, you know, a lot of rich people are, you know, blessed, born with a silver spoon. But a lot of the people who voted for Donald Trump and flipped from the Democratic Party since 2020, young men, non-white men, black and Latino men, shifted.

I mean, it's not just those folks, Gallego is some of the Democratic base. I think it's also just sort of, you know, khaki wearing moms and dads in the suburbs of Milwaukee and Philadelphia. This is an aspirational country.

BASH: Right.

HAMBY: And a lot of the young men in particular who flipped from Biden to Trump, those young men under 30, they have crypto wallets. They lived through the pandemic. They don't see a way to access the economy the way older generations did. And they don't like the idea.

And, by the way, Bernie's a popular person in this country. AOC's on faves are pretty high. She's a polarizing person.

BASH: But she is a star in that arena.

HAMBY: Yes.

BASH: I do want to read -- this is what I like to do on this show, I need to quote people back to themselves. So I'm quoting you back to you. And you just mentioned some of this. This is your story from earlier this month, The Boys of Bummer. Exclusive new polling reveals how the Gen Z men who helped Trump in the White House, Dave Portnoy types who are into sports, stocks and crypto, are souring on his presidency as expectations for a shiny new economy collide with our current tariff laden reality.

So this is -- I want you to shift from --

HAMBY: Yes.

BASH: -- their problem with Democrats to their expectations for Trump.

HAMBY: Yes. And I think people miscategorize the Trump bros. I think that's actually a derogatory term. John Fetterman said that, I agree with him.

There are lots of Joe Rogan, Theo Von, Charlie Kirk fans who wear MAGA hats and voted for Donald Trump and like the culture war stuff, like the masculinity stuff. And my -- I did multiple segments with you last year when I was traveling to college campuses --

BASH: Right.

HAMBY: -- and talking to all young voters, but young men in particular. Not very sort of casual voters, lesser engaged. They cared about their pocketbooks in the economy. Yes, Donald Trump accessed them through their ears, with podcasts, through talking about upper deckies, you know, Zins.

But like he -- a lot of people voted for him because they felt like they didn't have access to the economy. How am I going to afford a car loan? How am I going to afford rent? And they see their role models and their older siblings and their parents buying houses. How do you get there?

BASH: Yes.

HAMBY: And a lot of it's stock investing, you know. A lot of it's crypto, a lot of it's --

BASH: Right.

HAMBY: -- gambling on like on their phones. And again, that's not maybe the smartest way to look at the world, but it's a real category of young men that I kind of -- they need Donald Trump to follow through on his economic promises --

BASH: Yes.

HAMBY: -- but it's also important for Democrats not to sneer at them.

BASH: I'm going to go back to Jamie. I promised Jamie not to ask you about upper deckies and Zins, although you're so good at translating the Gen Z talk --

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh God.

BASH: -- that maybe I should. Let's get back to your reporting. I'm glad we can hear you talk about Marco Rubio and Steve Witkoff.

GANGEL: So friends of Rubio tell us that he went into this job, quote, "eyes wide open". He knew it wouldn't be easy working for Donald Trump. He knew Trump had a track record of firing people by tweet. He knew what it was like to be called Little Marco.

But perhaps what Rubio didn't count on was that he might run the risk of being overshadowed by one of Trump's closest friends, real estate developer and billionaire Steve Witkoff.

[12:45:06]

So, Dana, we may remember that Trump named Witkoff special envoy to the Middle East. And ever since, he's really been a leading player in some of Trump's highest profile policy wins, the release of hostages in Israel, the return of American Marc Fogel, most recently big meeting face to face with Russian President Vladimir Putin as key mediator in the talks to end the war in Ukraine.

And so one source told us that, quote, "Marco Rubio is a real foreign policy guy", but Witkoff has, quote, "the one thing no else has". He has Trump's 100 percent confidence. And multiple sources we spoke to, we spoke to more than a dozen sources who are familiar with the situation, have told us that they believe Marco Rubio is, quote, "frustrated with the situation".

BASH: And what are --

GANGEL: Yes.

BASH: -- the White House and State Department saying about this, Jamie?

GANGEL: So Trump 2.0 is different in many ways. But I don't think we've ever heard back so quickly from so many people on the record to tell us how wonderful Marco Rubio is and how well he and Witkoff got along from the national security spokesman. Rubio is a pivotal leader on President Trump's security team from the State Department.

Secretary Rubio and Special Envoy Witkoff have a fantastic relationship. Steve Witkoff himself told CNN that he has a wonderful working relationship with Rubio. Last but not least, Secretary of State Rubio tweeted he has not read the article, I don't think yet, but he says at CNN is an anti-Trump gossip tabloid that uses thinly sourced stories to generate clicks and try to make trouble.

Witkoff is one of the people I work with the closest on our team. These people --

BASH: Got it.

GANGEL: -- are pathetic. Donald Trump just went on TV a few minutes ago live and he did a big shout out to Marco Rubio and what a great Secretary of State he is. So clearly two things. This is a sensitive story. And Trump wants to make sure that Little Marco isn't little anymore, Dana.

BASH: Not at all. He is the Secretary of State.

GANGEL: Correct.

BASH: In fact, pretty close in line to being president of the United States. So --

GANGEL: Fourth. BASH: Thank you so much.

GANGEL: Fourth in succession. Sure.

BASH: There you go.

Thanks, Jamie. And thank you to Peter as well.

Coming up, we're going to take you behind the scenes at the White House, not the actual White House. Shonda Rhimes version of the White House on a new terrific show on Netflix. It's our Friday palate cleanser. Do not go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:37]

BASH: If you are a regular viewer of our program, you have seen your fair share of the White House on television, the North Lawn, the Oval Office, which we saw at the beginning of this show, the Rose Garden, it goes on and on. You've never seen it quite like this.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, this house needs to be treated like a crime scene. There may be a murderer out there.

Who's he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Edwin Park, special agent FBI. I'm really just here to help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you have one? I would help.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: That was a clip of Shonda Rhimes' fantastic new Netflix series, "The Residence", which is starring my guest, Randall Park. Thank you so much for being here.

RANDALL PARK, ACTOR, "THE RESIDENCE": Of course.

BASH: This is such a fun show. Let's just start with the subject matter, because, yes, you hear the residence, you see it's in the White House, and you might think that it's really political, but it's really not.

PARK: It's a classic murder mystery set in the East Wing of the White House, which is the residence where people live and events take place. And it's a side of the White House we rarely get to see, but it's also, you know, where the murder takes place and this crime needs to be solved.

BASH: Yes. And so that's the gist, is that somebody in the White House is murdered during a state dinner.

PARK: A state dinner, yes.

BASH: And the whole series is a whodunit.

PARK: Yes, yes.

BASH: And Uzo Aduba is the detective.

PARK: Yes, the great Cordelia Cupp.

BASH: Yes.

PARK: The greatest detective in the world. And I play Edwin Park, who's been tasked with assisting her very much against her will. And there's a lot of friction, especially initially between the two. But as the series progresses, they start to form a partnership.

BASH: I love it. I should also note that this series was based on a novel by one of our friends here at CNN, Kate Andersen Brower --

PARK: Yes.

BASH: -- and it's loosely based on that. I want to play another clip from the, I believe, it's episode -- nope, it's Episode 3. Let's watch.

PARK: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we have a toxicology back on winter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the blood?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about a cup of coffee?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you asking me to get you a cup of coffee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not your assistant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about Didier Gotthard? He's our suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a suspect. Agent Park told me you have a suspect. You told me she had a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

[12:55:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Agent Park did tell me that. Are you telling me Agent Park did not tell me that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what Agent Park told you. I'm telling you I don't have a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pastry chef.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that a question? Because you just said the words pastry chef.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he a suspect?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he not a suspect because he's not a suspect or is he not a suspect because you don't believe in suspects?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 2:30 in the morning --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which means you shouldn't be wasting my time. I will tell you all when I have something.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: So I want to know how you got that really adorable FBI director. How'd you get that director? Well, it look like, full disclosure. He is my partner. He is in this show.

PARK: The great Spencer Garrett.

BASH: Yes. But --

PARK: Very lucky to have him in the show.

BASH: But that -- I think that really encapsulates the sort of rhythm of the show. It's very Shonda Rhimes. It's very fast paced.

PARK: Very fast paced and very, yes, just rhythmic. It was almost like making music, you know. We really had to just be on top of each other with each line. And it was, you know, at first it was like, gosh, this is going to be challenging just to keep that rhythm going. But then it became like really fun, you know, and exhilarating.

And with great actors like Spencer Garrett, you know, it's even more fun because we're just bouncing off of each other. And, yes, we had a blast.

BASH: Yes. Well, you can tell I'm watching it that you had a blast.

PARK: Yes. BASH: It is definitely -- it's, like nothing I've seen.

PARK: Yes, yes.

BASH: And that says a lot.

PARK: It's very unique.

BASH: It's very unique.

PARK: Yes.

BASH: You are tremendous in this and in everything that you do.

PARK: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: I really appreciate you being here with us.

PARK: Of course. Happy to.

BASH: Thank you.

PARK: Thank you.

BASH: And thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. Have a wonderful weekend. Catch me on State of the Union on Sunday. CNN News Central starts after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)